flywheel or pulley?!?
- Thread starter rainmen
- Start date
gone_fishin
Member
- :
- One of a Kind '99
given the choice between the two, and only the two, personally I'd take the lightened flywheel. I would however, get an upgraded clutch at the same time as a lightened flywheel. If you go with the flywheel over the pulley, do some research to decide on a proper weight because in this case, weight is proportional to practicality.
- :
- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
flywheel and clutch
gone_fishin
Member
- :
- One of a Kind '99
yeah I hear www.protegegarage.com has some pretty good prices on clutches and flywheels, good customer service too...
gone_fishin
Member
- :
- One of a Kind '99
like hughes said, less rotational weight of the flywheel translates to more power freed up to drive the wheels. You'll notice a difference in acceleration (not hugely significant), but especially when blipping the throttle-- the rpms will shoot up quicker but in the same respect they'll drop faster. People have said that with a lightened flywheel they noticed that it's easier to spin the tires, and there's better throttle response in almost every gear.
As I said before though, weight in this case is proportional to practicality. Since this is an "economy" car, Mazda engineers designed the stock flywheel to be in the 20 lb range (I don't know exact weight, I used to, but it's over 20). The heavier the flywheel, the more intertial momentum is conserved-- meaning once it's spinning it has more of a tendancy to keep spinning without having to juice the throttle. This translates into better gas mileage and a more highway friendly drive.
Lightening the flywheel will lessen the intertial momentum, so what you gain in freeing up power to drive the wheels and acceleration, you'll lose in practicality. (Remember, acceleration implies a change in velocity-- that includes decrease in velocity). Your gas mileage will be slightly worse, and you'll notice that in order to keep the car going at a constant speed, you will need to depress the throttle more and more consistantly. This may mean on the highway instead of lightly resting your foot on the throttle, you'll need to keep it depressed more at all times. You'd be great to go with a 9lb flywheel. Any lighter and I think the impracticality might outweight the gains. A lightened flywheel will not increase BHP, only WHP.
A lightened flywheel is like an upgraded clutch-- you can throw a stage 4 clutch on your daily driver, but it will make every day commutes a living hell. It's about finding a balance based on personal preference.
As I said before though, weight in this case is proportional to practicality. Since this is an "economy" car, Mazda engineers designed the stock flywheel to be in the 20 lb range (I don't know exact weight, I used to, but it's over 20). The heavier the flywheel, the more intertial momentum is conserved-- meaning once it's spinning it has more of a tendancy to keep spinning without having to juice the throttle. This translates into better gas mileage and a more highway friendly drive.
Lightening the flywheel will lessen the intertial momentum, so what you gain in freeing up power to drive the wheels and acceleration, you'll lose in practicality. (Remember, acceleration implies a change in velocity-- that includes decrease in velocity). Your gas mileage will be slightly worse, and you'll notice that in order to keep the car going at a constant speed, you will need to depress the throttle more and more consistantly. This may mean on the highway instead of lightly resting your foot on the throttle, you'll need to keep it depressed more at all times. You'd be great to go with a 9lb flywheel. Any lighter and I think the impracticality might outweight the gains. A lightened flywheel will not increase BHP, only WHP.
A lightened flywheel is like an upgraded clutch-- you can throw a stage 4 clutch on your daily driver, but it will make every day commutes a living hell. It's about finding a balance based on personal preference.
gone_fishin
Member
- :
- One of a Kind '99
Yeah a lot of people don't take these things into consideration when they modify the transmission. It's just like any other mod (but moreso when you start messing with the tranny)-- whenever you replace a part on the car that wasn't designed from the factory to be there, things change... sometimes better, sometimes worse, usually both. With any mod there are always gains and drawbacks, you just need to ask yourself, what are you willing to live with/enjoy?
A lot of people also believe the misconception that adding a lightened flywheel adds horsepower-- it doesn't. The ammount of horsepower put out by your engines is determined at the crank (BHP). That power and torque is translated to the wheels through the transmission. If your transmission was 100% efficient, your WHP would be the same as your BHP. However, there is always a power loss through the transmission because just as there is no such thing as "free energy", there is no such thing as a 100% efficient machine. Law of conservation of energy says "energy is always conserved, just transferred between forms". The power lost in the transmission is due to acceleration (change in velocity) of parts, friction, and rotational mass inhibiting free movement. A lightened flywheel partly decreases one of those factors (rotational mass) thus increasing the efficiency of the transmission. This increase in transmission efficiency translates to an increase in WHP.
Little physics lesson for you all Physics is everywhere...
A lot of people also believe the misconception that adding a lightened flywheel adds horsepower-- it doesn't. The ammount of horsepower put out by your engines is determined at the crank (BHP). That power and torque is translated to the wheels through the transmission. If your transmission was 100% efficient, your WHP would be the same as your BHP. However, there is always a power loss through the transmission because just as there is no such thing as "free energy", there is no such thing as a 100% efficient machine. Law of conservation of energy says "energy is always conserved, just transferred between forms". The power lost in the transmission is due to acceleration (change in velocity) of parts, friction, and rotational mass inhibiting free movement. A lightened flywheel partly decreases one of those factors (rotational mass) thus increasing the efficiency of the transmission. This increase in transmission efficiency translates to an increase in WHP.
Little physics lesson for you all
Physics is everywhere...gone_fishin said:
Well I dont take this hard but you are wrong about the gas mileage. I get the same mileage per tank as I did the day I pulled it off the lot. And Ive done more then just a F/W.
MP3 ECU (have to run 91+ octane) shorty header and putted precat, indiglo 9 lb fly wheel (the stock is 18.5 lbs) with a CAI using an AEM dry filter. And then the normal hot wires and plugs.
Back to the rotating mass thing. It can also be said that it takes more gas the get it going and keep it going. Think of how much driving you do where you have to increase and decree the gas. The heavier the rotating mass the more gas it will take to make it turn and the more to keep it turning. Why do you thing all of the performance parts lighter and stronger? Lighter is always better.
That and if you dont know what you are doing, when you put on the pulley you can totally **** up the engine.
Hughes412 said:
k, i have the 6i. not sure which engine it is?!? k, i found en exedy flywheel for 390.00 dollars, it is 12 lbs. then there is the fidanza, found one for 382.00, and one for 349.00. it is 8.5 lbs and is aluminum. now, once i get the flywheel do i have to get an upgraded clutch rightaway?
Well the 2.3 flywheel shouldn't be to much different in lbs. I don't think the 12lb f/w would be worth the money. You wouldn't be saving enough lbs to justify the cost. Remember you also have to put this in. You do not need a new clutch! Save that money ans have the f/w installed. If you buy one my the best one, this is one of those things you don't want to skimp on.
Hughes412 said:
so really the only thang a stage 1 clutch is gonna do is hold the xtra horsepower u gave ur car? doesnt actually give hp right? ya, gonna have apex install the f/w. and the pulley probly at the same time. lol, i better feel the damn difference?!?!?
gone_fishin
Member
- :
- One of a Kind '99
rainmen said:
An aftermarket clutch will not add BHP or WHP, it simply has much more "gripping power" for the flywheel. You have quite a few choices in clutches. Among the different stages you can have choices between ceramic, sprung, or unsprung, windowed or not windowed, pucked or non-pucked. A higher stage clutch will generally be pucked. Higher stage clutches are for high output off road vehicles intended for track use. The reason is because there is literally no play with engagement-- it grips the flywheel immediately and does not allow slippage that the factory unit allows (temporarily) while synchronizing with the flywheel. High stage clutches thus, are made for hard launches at high RPM. High stage clutches have extremely strong pressure plates (which is what allows for this immediate grippage, or grippage period in an extremely high output vehicle). Consequently, you will have a ton of pedal pressure and just to avoid stalling you have to launch hard. It's basically analogous to learning to drive manual all over again. Pucked clutches can sometimes make crazy chattering or shrilling noises when engaging-- something that can be alarming to people unaware. This will make daily driving a nightmare, and traffic? forget about it. Some people can tolerate it, but to me it takes the fun out of driving a daily driver, completely. Talk about impracticality. To sum it up, high stage clutches are for high HP vehicles.
Unless you plan on making this exclusively a track car, you won't realistically need anything above a stage 2. However, be sure to check the HP ratings on the clutches you're interested in to make sure they're on the upper boundary of your (realistic) HP goal. Unorthadox Racing makes some great clutches and flywheels, although they are expensive. They are available through www.horsepowerfreaks.com and when you call, ask for Ben (protege rep).
Again, like flywheels, clutches are a matter of practicality and preferance. You need to find the balance between a clutch that will stand up to your target HP, and won't make everyday driving hell.
Last edited:
gone_fishin
Member
- :
- One of a Kind '99
with regard to the flywheel, anything from 9lb-12lb would be ideal. Any lighter and I think you'll be unhappy.
rainmen said:
That is correct, almost! HP wont really be the problem. Torque is what will make the cluch slip (for low powered cars). If you think you will need a new clutch you could probably save som money and just get a Speed6 clutch. That clutch is made to hold 270+hp and torque. But again it wont give power but will help put it to the ground.
All so for the pulley, I HIGHLY suggest that you wait a while on that. MAM is supposed to be working on a Light Weight Pulley. That will be way better then the underdrive pulleies that are out now. With under dirve you have to change belts and it also messes with the altinator, ac output.
Keep an eye on this thread. They are supposed to be working on it real (if not now) soon.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123637087
As for feeling the power, Get the F/W, and a true exhuast! Then you can get a short ram intake. I don't think it is worth the problems. I have one and it does sound cool but I have to worry every time I go through a puddle.
