Mazda5 Success depends on specs

DieselHybrid · Apr 20, 2005

Hi,

I recently returned from a duty station in Japan. We were really impressed with the "one-box" mini-minivans and even some of the micro-minivans available there.

I think the US market could use more fuel efficient 6-7 passenger vehicles. However, I'm worried that the US Mazda5 will be too heavy for the 2.3 engine in its present power output: 157bhp/148ft-lbs torque

If Mazda can deliver a fully-optioned Mazda5 at or about 2900lbs with an EPA estimated cty/hwy: 25/32mpg, they'll have a winner.

This shouldn't be too hard as the Mazda5 is based off of the Mazda3 chassis/engine/tranny: ~2700lbs and ~25/32mpg.

Does anyone have the Mazda5 weight specs? EPA Mileage estimates?

wongpres · Apr 20, 2005

These are the numbers I have for N. American-spec. Numbers are tentative, weight numbers I'm certain are pretty close to final numbers, mileage I'm less sure.[font=Arial, Helvetica]

5MT
City: 22.2mpg
Highway: 29.4mpg

4AT
City: 21.0mpg
Highway: 28.3mpg

I know, not particularly impressive, and one primary reason being curb weight:

[/font]5MT: 3,333lb
4AT: 3,391lb

perfecto · Apr 20, 2005

DieselHybrid said:
Hi,
If Mazda can deliver a fully-optioned Mazda5 at or about 2900lbs with an EPA estimated cty/hwy: 25/32mpg, they'll have a winner.

I reckon this car will sell well enough, being that it is in a class of one at the moment, to justify the competition bringing some of its vehicles to North America in the near future.

DieselHybrid · Apr 21, 2005

5MT
City: 22.2mpg
Highway: 29.4mpg
4AT
City: 21.0mpg
Highway: 28.3mpg
I know, not particularly impressive, and one primary reason being curb weight:
5MT: 3,333lb
4AT: 3,391lb

Uh-oh... This is what I was afraid of; 433-491lbs overweight, and as a result: grossly under-powered, and mediocre fuel mileage results.

Performance will suffer:
Based on a spreadsheet of vehicles, I had calculated that 19.5lbs of vehicle weight per every lb-ft of engine torque available would provide adequate acceleration. This car's pushing 23lbs per every lb-ft- and this is before you start adding 6 passengers and luggage. Yeouch!

Based on the Mazda5's curb weight it should have an engine capable of producing 170~173lb-ft of torque. (Or better yet, put in the hybrid powertrain available in the Ford Escape Hybrid!!!)
Granted, there is a lot more to performance than these two parameters.

Any word on a MazdaSpeed version?
Of course, more power = worse mileage.

If Mazda is serious about its "Zoom-Zoom" image, they should heed Collin Chapman's mantra: "Want performance... add lightness." In the Mazda5s case: add -491lbs!

perfecto · Apr 21, 2005

This car's pushing 23lbs per every lb-ft- and this is before you start adding 6 passengers and luggage. Yeouch!

How does this compare with a Mazda 3? (Edit: Found some specs on the 3, around 2900lb?)

rxlogic · Apr 21, 2005

perfecto said:
I reckon this car will sell well enough, being that it is in a class of one at the moment, to justify the competition bringing some of its vehicles to North America in the near future.

Those numbers are quite comparable to the PT Cruiser, which I am thinking of replacing with a Mazda 5. The Mazda 5 has a better (second row) back seat. Then again, the Cruiser comes in a turbo version.

rookie · Apr 23, 2005

City: 21.0mpg

Having some history with Mazda and having looked over Mazda 3 and Mazda 6 forums, this will most likely be 20 or 19.xx real life city MPG with added weight and different gearing. That is just bad.

Mazda is going to ruin it I think; no 5 speed AT or even a CVT (Ford has a CVT that they could have gotten into Mazda 5 if they wanted to). I am not so convinced that Mazda 5 will sell well anymore. I have dropped the idea of getting one and have started looking elsevere.

DieselHybrid · Apr 23, 2005

What Ford/Mazda need to do is make the Mazda5 a hybrid gasoline-electric vehicle!

Then and only then will the Mazda5 sell like hotcakes.

All Ford/Mazda need to do is use the Escape Hybrid's powertrain. This would help Ford recoup some of the money it spent developing this advanced system. It would also bring the cost of the system down through economy of scale.

Think about it: a distinctive, all-new vehicle that is much better looking than the awkward Toyota Prius or the bland Civic Hybrid with room for six! Performance would be better than the Escape Hybrid as the Mazda5 is a lighter and lower slung (not an SUV) platform.

I think I'll go write Ford a letter requesting a Hybrid Mazda5!

rxlogic · Apr 24, 2005

rookie said:
City: 21.0mpg

Having some history with Mazda and having looked over Mazda 3 and Mazda 6 forums, this will most likely be 20 or 19.xx real life city MPG with added weight and different gearing. That is just bad.
QUOTE]

If I buy a 5, one of the big reasons will be that it comes with MT. That will get an extra 3-4 MPG.

rookie · Apr 24, 2005

rxlogic said:
If I buy a 5, one of the big reasons will be that it comes with MT. That will get an extra 3-4 MPG.

That's a good point, but - i would be my wife's ride, trust me I tried... but AT is necessary in the end.

Plus - what is it - 70% or so of drivers in NA drive AT?

perfecto · Apr 24, 2005

DieselHybrid said:
What Ford/Mazda need to do is make the Mazda5 a hybrid gasoline-electric vehicle!

Having asked Mazda this very question in the past, I was greeted with the inevitable "Hybrid-electric does not fit with our 'Zoom-Zoom' image of performance and fun"

wongpres · Apr 24, 2005

rookie said:
Mazda is going to ruin it I think; no 5 speed AT or even a CVT (Ford has a CVT that they could have gotten into Mazda 5 if they wanted to). I am not so convinced that Mazda 5 will sell well anymore. I have dropped the idea of getting one and have started looking elsevere.

No, Ford does not have a CVT that will work with the Mazda5 2.3l family of engines. However, Mazda does have a 5-speed auto for this engine family and I would agree with everyone being disappointed that the 5-speed auto wasn't put into the Mazda5 at launch, it'll be there for '06 though.

Mazda5 Success depends on specs

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