- :
- Canada
Well, you don't have to just "throw up your hands". You can opt out of the program and disable data collection, you just have to call Mazda to do it. Or maybe visit your local Mazda dealer.
Is Mazda selling our driving data?
- Thread starter JMW
- Start date
Well, you don't have to just "throw up your hands". You can opt out of the program and disable data collection, you just have to call Mazda to do it. Or maybe visit your local Mazda dealer.
- :
- 2016.5 CX-5 GT AWD titanium/black 2016 Miata Club ST MT white
I didn't say anything about 'our' cars.
"If you are under the impression that your car isn't doing this, you are wrong."
I was talking about MY car, a 2016.5 CX-5 and it's NOT 'connected'.
"I am more than confident that essentially every newer car does this, and that the data is being transmitted. (Not necessarily to insurance agencies.)"
If your car is 'connected' then yes, it can transmit data, if it's not connected, it can't. It's as simple as that.
I don't know what year Mazda started making their cars capable of transmitting this data, I'm sure someone will come along with this info.
The only way to transmit it is via a radio connection.
WiFi is possible, but it would have to have an access point to connect to (& a valid password for the WiFi). That won't happen just driving around.
Otherwise it would need a cellular modem, which costs $ monthly (whether for AT&T, VZW,...), just like for a phone. (yes, I know there are prepaid, but the basic concept is it isn't free).
That's why the car companies' various phone app type things cost $, though often have several years of connectivity priced into the initial car price. (X year "trial" digital subscription)
If you have a subscription, for sure I can see the manufacturers harvesting data for sale, since the connection is there. They tend to have opt-in or opt-out kind of capabilities (to not run afoul of various regulations in the US, and I expect elsewhere), though they may be buried, hard to find.
If you don't have some kind of digital connection feature, which would be called out, then it doesn't make economic sense for them to pay for a cellular connection just to harvest data. Whatever $ they can get from the data miners (resellers to groups like insurance companies) is very unlikely to be enough to cover the cost of them having to foot the bill for cellular modem connectivity.
Hatchy Zoom
Member
- :
- 2012 Mazda2
Yes, agreed! But this is a breech of trust and one needs a free option of having it physically disabled, not just via software and a pinky swear. Anyway, this is just a theoretical situation for me, as long as the 2 keeps on running.
But eventually it will be an issue for everybody, and it is a privacy rights issue bigger than Mazda and the entire automotive industry, and we the people do need to push back and assert our rights to privacy and autonomy as human beings. I mean this would have passed for dystopic scifi until just recently.
- :
- Canada
It's not a breach of trust as everything is outlined in the T&C when you agree to use the app, and in the Owner's Manual. Just the same as when you agree to the T&C when you get a new phone, laptop, TV, gaming console, etc.
- :
- 2016.5 CX-5 GT AWD titanium/black 2016 Miata Club ST MT white
In my opinion, if you're not doing anything wrong then you don't have to worry. If someone wants to follow me around and see where I go and what I do, so what? Again, my opinion.
Oh, it's the principal of the thing, right? So what.
Forget about the car keeping tabs on you, it's your cell phone that you need to worry about.
YOU may need to worry that is, I don't.
- :
- W WA
- :
- 2024 CX-5 Premium
You lose the ability to remotely track where your car is, whether it is locked or unlocked, send it navigation destinations, and remotely start it. Off the top of my head...there may be more conveniences that you lose.
Hatchy Zoom
Member
- :
- 2012 Mazda2
Of course, you're entitled to your opinion and we can disagree and be civil and I don´t want to get into an ongoing debate about this.
But let me point put that the right and desire for privacy is not about hiding wrongdoing and that, in fact, it has generally been considered wrong to track and surveill people without significant cause and legal process in a free country.
Also, let me point out that surveillance is often a precedent for control. And that it is not just the surveilled who might "do something wrong", but the surveillers who often engage in wrongdoing, simply because "absolute power corrupts absolutely" as Lord Acton said. And being able to track so many people at once in real time, while it might not be absolute power, is a heck of a lot of power and the temptation to misuse it is great and the odds that it will never or seldom be misused is quite minuscule.
So yes, the principle is important, but this is not just about the principle, its about the practice. You are free not to worry about it, but it is hardly a trivial matter.
As far as the phone, I do agree with you- The phone tracking is concerning and should be addressed. But one wrong turn does not deserve another. I'd rather not be tracked at all. But I'd rather be tracked less than more. And if the car tracking truly didn´t matter, they wouldn´t have bothered to spend money designing the hardware and software and building it into the car. So obviously they do get some additional tracking out of the connected car "services" than they do from just your cellular phone, otherwise why spend those resources?
You're free to ignore the issue all you want, but that doesn´t mean its not an important issue for individuals and society at large. And at the end of the day Mazda needs to give its car owners at the very least a physical disconnect OPTION of whether to drink this poison or not, not just a setting that can be remotely reactivated at any time by Mazda or others.
Hatchy Zoom
Member
- :
- 2012 Mazda2
It definitively is when you don´t explicitly explain it to your customers and give them a (real) way out. Terms & Conditions are legalese. Nobody reads them all and its not realistic to expect that. Burying some controversial features that affects every driver in real time, that can even affect a driver's insurance costs, and up until now, has NEVER been a normal "feature" of a car is most definitely a breach of trust, even if they've got their butts covered legally.
- :
- W WA
- :
- 2024 CX-5 Premium
Who are we to trust to decide exactly what are the metrics of good and bad driving? For example, a dog runs out in front of you and you slam on the brakes. Oops, that's a hard stop, bad driving, bump up your insurance rate.
- :
- 2019 CX-5 AWD
Mazda Tracking Owners
This is VERY not cool. If my '16.5 has this it will be sold. I will NOT buy a Mazda with tracking built in! This is the reason I have a de-googled phone and tablet. https://www.autoevolution.com/news/your-new-mazda-knows-if-you-are-naughty-or-nice-and-doesn-t-keep-it-a-secret-202509.html
The spyware module is only on 2021 or newer CX-5s. So if you are in the market for a used CX-5, then you can get a 2nd gen from 2017 to 2020 model years. See the discussion here, removing the TCU apparently breaks the infotainment:
Reddit - Dive into anything
www.reddit.com
I'd consider the TCU an annoyance but it wouldn't really stop me from buying a 2021 or newer, just have to contact Mazda to turn it off. (The Modem is still active). But I'm glad my 19 doesn't have it, it's a useless and slightly detrimental feature.
- :
- Canada
Those concerned with privacy would be the first ones reading the T&Cs since everything is detailed in there anyway. Those who don't read the T&Cs would hear feedback second-hand from those already concerned with privacy (and possibly "paranoid" sources), which could be influenced by fear, uncertainty and doubt, casting the information in a negative light. It's only "controversial" when it's being framed as such.
Until you have clear cut evidence of malicious use of this data by Mazda, you should not assume that that's what they are doing. It's important to be wary, but you shouldn't put the cart before the horse. There is no breach of trust. At least, not yet. So let's not pretend like there is.
Further, the principle of the privacy problem applies to both the phone and the car just the same, but it's much, MUCH more of a concern with the phone because the potential for privacy breaches is much higher for obvious reasons. So with that being the case, those concerned with privacy should be swapping to "dumb" phones before worrying about anything else. It's easy enough to swap your SIM card over, much easier than calling Mazda and disabling Mazda Connect. And yet, the vast majority of people are much less likely to swap phones because they have weighed the risks against the benefits and the benefits always come out on top. The same concept applies to connected services. Mazda implemented them primarily to improve owner experience, and there is no evidence of a malicious use of collected data. So again, if this is a concern for the owner, they should contact Mazda to disable connected services and then continue to enjoy the car. The hardware to connect is still there, but that doesn't mean it's active.
- :
- '22 Mazda CX-5 Turbo
Mazda has never struck me as one of the bad greedy capitalist auto makers, so I can live with not disabling my car's data transmission functions and opt out of what I can. Though I will now be more attentive of which trims have such functionality and potentially just pick the trim that natively lacks its. Granted I suppose a Mazda dealership service department could just download my car's blackbox data and send it to Mazda. Perhaps life will be easier if I just enjoy driving my Mazda and just worry about life's more important problems.
