Timing belt replacement on 1.8 (2.0) Proteges

Lol, he wouldn't give you a pic of the wrong way to install the belt (inout)

I just wanted to make sure..lol because for some reason I thought the big marks were the ones that had to be aligned and didnt realize about the actuall mark.
 
I just wanted to make sure..lol because for some reason I thought the big marks were the ones that had to be aligned and didnt realize about the actuall mark.

The "big" marks are no marks at all, they are actually cam sensor trigger notches...
 
UPDATE!

Ladies and Gentlemen,
My virtual hat is off to you. We positioned the alignment marks a bit BELOW "horizontal" because otherwise, the lines would be well ABOVE horizontal... this is a factor, it seems is caused by the slack/distance between the cams and the "newness" of the belt.

We chose to go "below" horizontal because as the belt wears/stretches, the marks will tend to align more closely.

The car was assembled and I can attest, it has NEVER run this well in the 40k miles we've owned it.

Thanks to ALL!
 
I'm glad everything worked out for you. And yes, you want to position the marks slightly low when you install the belt - when you hook up the tensioner, the tension will cause those marks to be pulled level.
 
getting the same thing done to my car right now as we speak, sensor and timing belt replaced plus some coil packs. All start off with some misfire events while driving. So far 2000 bucks will be spent to trouble shoot the random misfires.

Timing belt was due anyways so might as well get that done now, especially when the zoom zoom has 96000 miles on it right now.
 
getting the same thing done to my car right now as we speak, sensor and timing belt replaced plus some coil packs. All start off with some misfire events while driving. So far 2000 bucks will be spent to trouble shoot the random misfires.

Timing belt was due anyways so might as well get that done now, especially when the zoom zoom has 96000 miles on it right now.

$2000????? oh my...timing belt isn't due till 105k...what are they charging you for, i mean you could get a new motor for that money? wow
 
$2000????? oh my...timing belt isn't due till 105k...what are they charging you for, i mean you could get a new motor for that money? wow

thats the total right now. had a few diagnostic checks, full tune up, right now timing belt and some ignition coils replaced. mech said timing belt needs to get replaced especially since leak near some sensor is starting to show and I should get sensor replaced with timing belt. Some sensor that senses timing belt, i guess. Forgot the name. All this to trouble shoot the random misfire thats going on while i drive.
 
either i'm missing something or your getting really screwed....the timing belt/water pump at the most should be 600-700...tune up, plugs wires, coil packs, what another 100? throw in anew egr...even if it was 1000...what in the world could he be doing to be at 2k, and your not done??:confused:
 
it's because he lives on an island...lol

thats true. 85 bucks for labor every hour. The have much confidence in my mechanic. I know he aint pulling my chain on parts and labor. Just sucks that all this is happening within 2 week period. Costing me so far 1600 bucks.
 
That makes sense. Like I said above, there's no way that you should have to worry about your tensioner spring being loose on that pin if the tensioner is working properly - that SOB was really stuck.

Now I hope that this stays fixed permanently. Personally, I would've returned the tensioner and gotten a new one, but I also have a second vehicle to drive, so...

Anyways, glad everything worked out for you.

Hi again gozz, slavrenz, et al,

You all are not going to believe this. After doing this timing belt job 2 times(including the water pump the first time), I have radiator fluid running out of the timing belt cover this week. So I got about 3 months of service out of the car without incident. Looks like I've got to go for a 3rd disassembly to determine why the new water pump failed. Btw, the pump was torqued onto the block per specs with the block surface thoroughly cleaned and the new gasket that came with the pump. The water pump belt was only tensioned enough to keep it from making belt squeal noise. I can't win on this job.

Arg!
Brcobrem
 
Hi Forum Members,

Just a follow up on this latest leaking coolant episode:

I jacked it up, lowered it onto a safety jackstand, removed the wheel and splash cover from under the engine, took off the radiator cap and laid back down under the car. Without any further disassembly, I aimed a flashlight at what looked like a dry water pump weep hole (under the pump), and waited about 5 minutes . . . then came the green radiator fluid drop out of the hole. It's not that easy to see the fluid coming out, but it does build up inside the pump, then sort of ooze out and run down the side of the pump.

Here is Rockauto's part number for that piece of garbage:
CARDONE SELECT Part # 5523126 {New; Includes Gasket #PWP897}
Btw, this is supposed to be a new, not remanufactured pump.
I called Rockauto and they would not refund my money, but offered to send me a replacement Cardone pump. I told them no thanks and make sure that they tell their product managers that this pump is substandard and a real time consuming job to replace.

Here's what I'm replacing it with ($60US):
GMB New Water Pump
AdvanceAutoParts.com No. 145-1410
OE # FS01-15-010F
Manufactured to the exceed original equipment specifications. Certified to TS16949, ISO14001 and OHSAS 18001 standards for quality in manufacturing, safety and environmental practices.
Product Features:
New precision-ground, one-piece bearing assembly sealed to withstand contaminants and lubed for life to provide long, trouble-free service
Patented unitized ceramic seal for leak-free performance
100% of all the manufactured water pumps are leak tested after assembly
Exact OE fit

Also - the pump belt was definitely not over tightened. I can push it down about 1/2" and turn it 90 degrees with little effort. I only tighten belts enough to make them stop squealing. At least that's how I do it.

So I get to *practice* this whole freaking job one more time.

Happy Saturday!
Brcobrem
 
Hi Forum Members,

Just a follow up on this latest leaking coolant episode:

I jacked it up, lowered it onto a safety jackstand, removed the wheel and splash cover from under the engine, took off the radiator cap and laid back down under the car. Without any further disassembly, I aimed a flashlight at what looked like a dry water pump weep hole (under the pump), and waited about 5 minutes . . . then came the green radiator fluid drop out of the hole. It's not that easy to see the fluid coming out, but it does build up inside the pump, then sort of ooze out and run down the side of the pump.

Here is Rockauto's part number for that piece of garbage:
CARDONE SELECT Part # 5523126 {New; Includes Gasket #PWP897}
Btw, this is supposed to be a new, not remanufactured pump.
I called Rockauto and they would not refund my money, but offered to send me a replacement Cardone pump. I told them no thanks and make sure that they tell their product managers that this pump is substandard and a real time consuming job to replace.

Here's what I'm replacing it with ($60US):
GMB New Water Pump
AdvanceAutoParts.com No. 145-1410
OE # FS01-15-010F
Manufactured to the exceed original equipment specifications. Certified to TS16949, ISO14001 and OHSAS 18001 standards for quality in manufacturing, safety and environmental practices.
Product Features:
New precision-ground, one-piece bearing assembly sealed to withstand contaminants and lubed for life to provide long, trouble-free service
Patented unitized ceramic seal for leak-free performance
100% of all the manufactured water pumps are leak tested after assembly
Exact OE fit

Also - the pump belt was definitely not over tightened. I can push it down about 1/2" and turn it 90 degrees with little effort. I only tighten belts enough to make them stop squealing. At least that's how I do it.

So I get to *practice* this whole freaking job one more time.

Happy Saturday!
Brcobrem

That sucks to hear man, but don't let one bad water pump ruin the brand for you. That is the exact water pump I bought (because it was new), and I haven't had any problems in 7+ months.

Cardone usually makes very good products. As for your refund, that's just RockAuto's policy - they only stock parts by quality manufacturers, and so they won't refund your money on the premise that every water pump is crap. They just consider it a fluke, and send you a replacement.
 
Hi slavrenz,

Thanks for the kind words of consolation. Btw, this time I'm doing the job in a garage and won't have to work out in the baking sun. That is a big plus. I put it up on the jacks this weekend, then promptly re-injured an old shoulder injury moving a washer and dryer. So it will have to sit for a couple days until the shoulder heals up a little.

I did pick up the new GMB water pump. Unlike the Cardone pump, this on has a formed steel impeller (unlike the Cardone which was a machined casting). The gasket on the GMB also aligns 100% with the machined pump surface. The Cardone did not align very well (as you'll see below). I'm Glad to hear that you have had good experiences with your Cardone. Hope that holds true for you.

I've never had time to get all the pics from the original timing belt & water pump job up for the forum (it's on the to-do list), but here's a pic that shows what I just described. The (then) new Cardone is on the left, the original OEM pump is on the right:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/Cardone%20and%20OEM%20Water%20Pumps.jpg

Let you all know if anything is different on this go around of the job. I do want to take a good look at that tensioner again. If you recall when the new one "stuck", and caused the engine whining noise that necessitated the 2nd timing belt job, I did not replace it (since it was a new part and I un-stuck it). I'm going to temporarily install the old tensioner (I kept it because it did work), just to see how it pivots on the block and works with the spring (ie. does it pivot and move freely, or does it seem like it's stuck and very hard to pivot).

Regards,
Brcobrem
 
Just a quick note, the tensioner is not supposed to pivot too freely. When fully torqued down, it should provide resistance against pivoting, but not so much that the spring cannot maintain tension. (perhaps you already knew that... in which case, disregard! haha)

When I did my timing belt a few weeks ago, I used a Gates timing belt kit which had a new belt, tensioner, and idler for a very reasonable $160, compared to the prices for new components individually. Alas, it didn't come with the spring, so I had to make a special trip to the dealer for that one $4 part. :p
 
Hi deminsion7,

I actually called Gates to ask why their kit didn't include the spring. They said there is some kind of problem acquiring it. Go figure.

Thanks for the heads-up on the tensioner. I wasn't 100% sure if there was supposed to be some resistance, or if it should pivot relatively freely. As a recap, the new tensioner that I originally installed had so much internal resistance, that I had to do the job a second time, and use a hex key to move the roller back off the belt a little (to fix the engine whining noise). When I did that, the roller actually "popped" counterclockwise a little. I think that tensioner is bad. Let you all know what comes of this.

Regards,
Brcobrem
 
Hi slavrenz, deminsion7 and et al,

Follow up on my 3rd go around on this job:

Well, the new GMB water pump is in and working fine. Here's a pic that shows the Cardone pump on the left (that leaked out of the pump's weep hole after 3 months) and the original OEM (Bosch I believe) pump on the right:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/Cardone%20and%20OEM%20Water%20Pumps.jpg

Here's a pic the shows the new GMB pump on the left (nickle or chrome plated impeller) and the failed Cardone pump on the right (cast machined impeller). Again, also note how the gasket on the Cardone was not cut to match the pump flange precisely:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/GMB%20on%20left%20and%20Cardone%20on%20right.jpg

Here's a top view of the GMB on the left and Cardone on the right. Note the GMB's pulley flange is "notched" which allows you to easily get a ratchet wrench on top of the pump bolt under the pulley flange:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/Top%20view%20of%20GMB%20on%20left%20and%20Cardone%20on%20right.jpg

Here's the wrench through the notch action. Also note a little high temp silicone on the seal. I wiped a very, very light coat on the pump flange, and also on the top of the gasket, and let it dry (to the touch) for about half an hour before bolting on the pump. Make sure the block is clean and dry as a whistle too:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/Notched%20pulley%20flange%20allows%20wratchet%20wrench.jpg

If you were putting a pump into a rocket ship, you might also be interested that the GBM pump weighed 2 (US) pounds exactly, and the Cardon was 2 1/8 pounds. If you look at the above pic, you might find that odd because the GMB has more meat on the cast pump shaft struts.

You may recall that I had to do this job a second time because the new Dayco timing belt tensioner was stuck, making the belt extremely tight, which caused a loud whining noise from the engine. Recall that I then used a hex key, turned it counterclockwise a little, and the tensioner popped out of its stuck position and moved to a more normal position. Here a pic of what the tensioner spring looks like now. Note that the spring coils show it is extended somewhat. Also note that with the belt off, I put a hex key in it and it has some resistance either left or right (perhaps 5 foot pounds), but now pivots somewhat freely as would be expected (ie. it is not locked at one position):
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/Tensioner%20spring%20shows%20normal%20coil%20expansion.jpg

In the unlikely event that your timing belt is new and the water pump fails, you don't have to remove the engine mount and the timing belt (which straddles the engine mount - geeze Mazda!). Just remove the top power steering pump pivot bolt and the two lower power steering pump mounting bolts and pull it up and away, and extract the water pump out the top that way. It's a good time to use a hex key in the clamp that holds one of the hoses into the pump (mine was leaking a little down onto the block and I never noticed it until I was working under the power steering pump. Here's a pic:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/Power%20steering%20pump%20out%20of%20the%20way%20to%20remove%20water%20pump.jpg

There you go. Hope that helps someone.

Regards,
Brcobrem
 
Hi Forum,

After doing this job 3 times, I have a little observation about the continuing discussion of aligning the cam shaft marks either perfectly horizontal, or slightly lower than horizontal. I believe it has to do with how you put the belt on.

I used the "perfectly horizontal method and here's how I get he belt on:
1) Have the cam marks perfectly horizontal and a wood wedge driven in to hold them that way (here's that pic again)
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/cams^_spread^_and^_block^_of^_wood^_inserted.jpg

2) Have the tensioner and idler roller on and bolted down. Use the hex key on the tensioner and move it fully clockwise (into the position that makes it easy to attach the spring to the block pin). Put the spring on the block pin with a pair of very long needle nose pliers and make sure the spring seats into the notch on the pin. Leave the tension where it's at for now.

4) Put the belt on the left cam gear, then over the right cam gear, then down around the idler roller, then around the the crank gear.

5) At this point (if you were under the hood and could see this) you should not have sagging of the belt across the cam gears, or down to the block gear. If the belt is not aligning perfectly into the cam's gear teeth or the block gear, then you do not have the marks on the cams perfectly horizontal, or the block gear's alignment notch aligned perfectly vertically with the block mark.

6) Coming back up to the tensioner with the belt, twist the belt a little and it will easily slide over the tensioner's roller.

7) Remove the wooden wedge from the cams. The cams should then roll just a little towards each other (ie. you will have non-horizontal marks now).

8) With the crank bolt screwed in, turn the crank a little, perhaps rocking it backwards and forwards a couple times. The tensioner SHOULD move counter clockwise by itself, back to a normal position (ie. the spring coils will be extended a little now). It the tensioner stays locked in that clockwise position with the spring's coils collapsed (like a spring that wasn't installed), use the hex key and move the tensioner counter clockwise so that you see some air space between the coils of the spring. Here's the pic again:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/Tensioner%20spring%20shows%20normal%20coil%20expansion.jpg

Hopefully that will prevent you from having to do this job a second time because the belt is whinning due to being over tensioned by a faulty tensioner.

9) Rotate the crank (4 or 5 times as I recall) and verify all the marks line up.

Now, all that said: If you were to start with the cam markers, aligned slightly downward, put the belt across them, then put the belt over the idler and around the tensioner, and finally somehow manage tp man-handle the belt over the crank gear, all the marks would align perfectly too.

I did read some threads here where people were having difficulty getting the belt on. I think waiting to put the belt over the crank gear as the last step probably causes that pain.

Just a marketing opinion of one, but I happen to like my method better . . . no man-handling of the belt required.

Regards,
Brcobrem
 
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