2007~2015 Changing CX-9 transfer case gear oil (photos)
- Thread starter avidien
- Start date
that looks exactly like another member who posted pictures of his failed transfer case, but yours doesn't seem as bad as his,
looks like yours just started leaking recently. Most likely the leaking oil is coming out from the breather valve on top.
this might be a blessing in disguise, dealer should fix for free under warranty, make sure to have them check and take a picture of the
transmission output splines when the old transfer case is pulled. If the splines are stripped putting in a new transfer case won't do anything for AWD, since the splines would just be spinning freely; not turning and driving the new replacement transfer case.
looks like yours just started leaking recently. Most likely the leaking oil is coming out from the breather valve on top.
this might be a blessing in disguise, dealer should fix for free under warranty, make sure to have them check and take a picture of the
transmission output splines when the old transfer case is pulled. If the splines are stripped putting in a new transfer case won't do anything for AWD, since the splines would just be spinning freely; not turning and driving the new replacement transfer case.
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Yeh, it hasn't been that long between last snow and today. I tested the hell out of AWD and it worked fine so my guess is there is no issue with splines ...yet. I haven't heard any noises either so I doubt there are any issues. I almost feel like its pointless to ask them to check splines. They won't let me get under the car and they will try to sell me on whatever story suits them better at the moment. I don't trust a single word those MFERS are saying. I hate stealerships with true passion....haven't left car for service in one...for good 8 years. Idiots changed oil in my car as a prepurchase service. Filter wasn't tight enough, leaking oil slowly. Thanks to my OCD I cough it in time. Seriously, u can't trust those MFERS with simplest task.....daimmmm. ..LCA and TC service at once. ..I am so stressed out right now LOL
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looks to me the oil should be changed every 6,000 miles like engine oil since sludge is already starting to be evident at 5,000 miles. Or could it be that since it's a new transfer case still breaking in there's going to be more metal particles/filings on the magnetic plug ?
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- :
- 2016 CX-5
that's what I was thinking too BUT it's definitely sludge, there were little bits of congealed grey matter that look like bits of toothpaste, when I smushed them, there were no metal particles, just clumped up oil that smeared smooth against a flat surface.
Service department confirmed that they are indeed swapping PTU under extended warranty...they couldn't do it today cuz "10 hour service". Hmmm remove exhaust, remove one axel...and swap PTU...6 hours at best with lazy ass tech. That's why I can't stand stealerships.
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- :
- 2016 CX-5
just a quick update, drove around for a week after swapping out the oil last weekend, I just did a quick check of the plug: very happy to report no sludge on plug or no signs of leaking whatsoever but then again it's only been 300 miles since the oil change, but the oil swap seems to be working fine, and drive system/shifting is smooth, no complaints. I'll change again after 6,000 miles and post pictures then, the procedure is so simple; and at $10 for 1/2 bottle of oil, I see it as part of the pet peeve requirements of owning an AWD and just regular maintenance as with any of my other AWD vehicles, only difference is the missing drain plug but the little electric pump that Avidien recommended is a champ and works very well, thx Avidien.
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astriuminc
Member
- :
- CX-9 2013 AWD
Hey Reggie,
if you don't mind how much does Hamilton Mazda dealership in New Jersey charged for your PTU oil change ?
Also what oil brand did they use ? They're about an hour from NYC, thanks
also please confirm address and phone number, thanks very much:
Hamilton Mazda
Address: 2201 NJ-33, Hamilton Township, NJ 08690
Phone: 888 440-3352
Harley Gilmore
Member
- :
- 08 Cx-9 3.7L AWD Grand Touring
I just completed this same process on my 08 CX-9. Two days later I noticed oil drops underneath the front end of my Mazda. It was undoubtedly transfer case oil. I wiped everything clean and took it for a spin and the TC is definitely leaking. I bought it a few months ago. I only put 2k miles on it and I've changed the rear different oil and transmission oil just to be safe. I didn't know when the last time any of these things had been serviced. Everything has gone smooth thus far besides the complications with the TC. Any idea what may have caused this? My CX-9 has 83k miles on it now.
Only thing I can think of is that the breather valve was already activated/damaged/or popped off prior to your purchase at 81K miles and the OEM oil was already leaking until it reached a low level where it just stopped leaking. Once you refilled with new oil, the new oil is just coming out of the breather valve again. Was there any signs of prior leakage when you changed the oil for the first time at 81K?
try to reach way up high to feel for the breather valve and check for any leaks on the top of the transfer case:
https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&biw=1696&bih=826&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=cx-9+transfer+case+breather+valve&oq=cx-9+transfer+case+breather+valve&gs_l=img.3...40424.41078.0.41300.5.5.0.0.0.0.153.4 15.2j2.4.0....0...1c.1.64.img..1.0.0.9H_5cfQVbAw#i mgrc=BtnMXalwg-LhFM%3A
https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&biw=1696&bih=826&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=cx-9+transfer+case+breather+valve&oq=cx-9+transfer+case+breather+valve&gs_l=img.3...40424.41078.0.41300.5.5.0.0.0.0.153.4 15.2j2.4.0....0...1c.1.64.img..1.0.0.9H_5cfQVbAw#i mgrc=gwTB4cLdrNIt6M%3A
I think you're the 2nd owner of a used higher mileage AWD that started leaking after changing the oil. That owner suspected the old oil was thick and sort of "plugged" any bad seals but when he put in new oil it thinned out the sludge breaking the "sludge seal" and the new oil which is thinner started to leak.
OR it's the other way around and the breather valve is clogged with sludge and pressure is building up and blowing out seal gaskets, see this video, guy shows how a breather valve on transfer cases work (skip to video time 7:45) he shows the spring and rubber seal, it's not the CX-9, but concept is the same, valve is an internal spring with a rubber seal, if that rubber seal is soaked in oil from previous leaks, there's no way it's going to seal anything and that's why you're oil is leaking.
did some more digging,
see video below, this guy disassembled his Ford Edge PTU (same exact PTU as the CX-9) skip to 2:25 (he shows the vent tube clogged with sludge)
the vent valve must be able to breathe for the transfer case to function properly,
it seems to me the transfer case must be maintained from new
and I have to disagree with Avidien, the transfer case CANNOT BE SAVED
if sludge has built up in the breather tube already from years of neglect.
Having a clogged vent tube will build up pressure in the transfer case until it literally explodes or blows out a gasket.
Or if the sludge in the vent tube is not thick enough to fully seal the vent, as the car runs the transfer case heats up,
any sludge in the vent tube gets barfed out by the hot air pressure and that's what people see when they see oil spots in the driveway.
Now to play devil's advocate, if this is an inherent Ford design problem and that vent tube is stagnant and sludge builds up in that vent tube over time no matter how many times we change the oil, or if we add a drain plug or not, then god help us all AWD owners, changing oil or not won't help, even a drain plug won't help if stagnant oil just gets stuck in that tube and clogs it over time.
I guess for many of us, our only choice is to keep swapping the oil and hope no sludge ever develops that will clog that vent tube
unless someone comes up with an effective way to clean that vent tube on top,
I know in some vehicles, it's not a stubby valve but rather a long flex tube that extends from the transfer case to the engine compartment where mechanics can inject high air pressure and clean out the valve for maintenance.
Or maybe do what that guy in the first video did ? install air hose in fill plug and see if air hisses thru the vent valve ?
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Batmancx,
your logic makes sense, I agree that a clogged vent tube is not a good thing, especially after seeing the video below (2:25 time mark) of the clogged vent tube:
but I submit leaking from the vent valve of an old neglected transfer case is a good thing......
Allow me to explain,
OP said after sucking out the sludge of a 81K and replacing with new oil, he saw leaking,
now it depends where the leak is coming,
if from a seal gasket, then need to replace PTU, no questions.
BUT IF from the vent valve, then I see the leaking as "temporary" and the transfer case just trying make an air channel thru the thick sludge stuck in the vent tube.
I see leaking from the vent valve as a sign of the transfer case "healing" itself. Once there is an air channel thru the vent tube, the so called "leaking" (not really leaking, more like barfing out the sludge in the vent tube) will stop and any built up pressure will just release thru the valve.
Although there may be sludge in the vent tube sidewalls, as long as there is a channel for hot gases to escape, the pressure won't build up. Owner just has to ignore the temporary leak for a while as the transfer case tries to spit out the sludge in the vent tube. It's very important that the owner makes sure the transfer case has good new oil in the transfer case to prevent seizing, this is very important, sludge in the gears will cause the gears to seize.
I think the bigger problem is what about a high mileage transfer case that has never been serviced doesn't leak ? does that mean a GOOD PTU or CLOGGED VENT ?
At least with a leaking vent, you know at least pressure is getting released as the PTU gets hot,
BUT what about a FULLY CLOGGED vent tube like the video above?
No leaking will give an owner a false sense of security making him think he has a good transfer case but in reality the valve is fully clogged and the pressure will keep building up until a gasket blows or the housing cracks.
I guess a good test is after a long drive to remove the fill plug and try to see if any pressure is released, if there is a hissing sound when the fill plug is removed, then valve tube is fully clogged and PTU must be replaced immediately since there's no way to relieve the pressure.
your logic makes sense, I agree that a clogged vent tube is not a good thing, especially after seeing the video below (2:25 time mark) of the clogged vent tube:
but I submit leaking from the vent valve of an old neglected transfer case is a good thing......
Allow me to explain,
OP said after sucking out the sludge of a 81K and replacing with new oil, he saw leaking,
now it depends where the leak is coming,
if from a seal gasket, then need to replace PTU, no questions.
BUT IF from the vent valve, then I see the leaking as "temporary" and the transfer case just trying make an air channel thru the thick sludge stuck in the vent tube.
I see leaking from the vent valve as a sign of the transfer case "healing" itself. Once there is an air channel thru the vent tube, the so called "leaking" (not really leaking, more like barfing out the sludge in the vent tube) will stop and any built up pressure will just release thru the valve.
Although there may be sludge in the vent tube sidewalls, as long as there is a channel for hot gases to escape, the pressure won't build up. Owner just has to ignore the temporary leak for a while as the transfer case tries to spit out the sludge in the vent tube. It's very important that the owner makes sure the transfer case has good new oil in the transfer case to prevent seizing, this is very important, sludge in the gears will cause the gears to seize.
I think the bigger problem is what about a high mileage transfer case that has never been serviced doesn't leak ? does that mean a GOOD PTU or CLOGGED VENT ?
At least with a leaking vent, you know at least pressure is getting released as the PTU gets hot,
BUT what about a FULLY CLOGGED vent tube like the video above?
No leaking will give an owner a false sense of security making him think he has a good transfer case but in reality the valve is fully clogged and the pressure will keep building up until a gasket blows or the housing cracks.
I guess a good test is after a long drive to remove the fill plug and try to see if any pressure is released, if there is a hissing sound when the fill plug is removed, then valve tube is fully clogged and PTU must be replaced immediately since there's no way to relieve the pressure.
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Drogos,
did you ever get your PTU replaced ? you mentioned the dealer said "10 hour service" ....did it really take that long ?
a co-worker also bought a used 2012 CX-9 AWD with 68,000 miles and his PTU started to drip dark gray oil also after only 1500 miles.
It's still under warranty so he's actually glad it's happening now, so no out of pocket cost to him.
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Co-worker told me the dealer went to swap out the leaking PTU and found the PTU splines and the transmission splines were ok,
so he was lucky, just an easy swap out of the bad PTU and he's good to go, had to leave the car there the whole day so they gave him a loaner. All covered under warranty. I showed co-worker the link on this forum to maintain the PTU oil, he was grateful and said it looked easy enough and he will do it every 6,000 miles from now on since he has a new PTU now and loves the CX-9 and wants to get as much mileage out of it as possible.
ok. guys. here's my take on this....if you catch the leak quick enough...your tranny splines will be totally fine. There needs to be certain amount of oil gone from the PTU for the gears to seize. Depending on the lenght of your typical commute, speed, temps and who knows what else .....your gears may seize very quickly after certain amount of lubricant is gone ...or they might hold off for a while. I wouldn't call myself lucky...more like ...frickin obsessed with this issue. Long trip was coming up so I would literally check every frickin day.....and it's easy enough to peak on your driveway without putting car on the ramps. DO IT !!!!!! I am coming up on 5k on new PTU so I will have to change oil sooner rather than later. This is so ridiculous ....lol I know it's an easy service, still.
Anyways, I think I might have an idea on 1st symptom that might hint you to the failing PTU. I bought car at the end of FEB. I checked the hell out of AWD before purchase. All was good. Tranny also had crisp, smooth shifts. After ...maybe 2 weeks I started noticing that 1st to 2nd gear shift was far from smooth....hesitation and behaved almost as if something was holding it back...if I was depressing brake during shift lightly ...that's how tranny would act. Initially I thought that since my honeymoon with a new car is ending ...I am basically starting to notice little crap like that. After new PTU was installed though 1st > 2nd shift was noticeably smoother. To think about it...it all makes sense. Low speed going 1st to 2nd, even with all that mass, car doesn't have enough momentum yet so any little added friction will affect the shift. I am thinking that failing PTU simply adds to the parasitic losses in the system....it's not a lot ...enough though for a OCD guy like me to notice that this shift is little slow and little hesitant. So be on the look out .....if tranny gets lazy on you.....get under that car right away. My shifts got lazy some ...2 weeks before I noticed first leak ....and I had leak for max 2/3 days before PTU was swapped. I didn't even asked them to check splines. I knew they wouldn't anyways.....or they would tell me whatever is benefiting them more...and I was quite positive tranny splines are healthy. I would notice if gears actually seized.
Now little bit about my service experience. So I called the closest to me mazda service. One of the worst in Chicago land - ROTO mazda, or so I thought. I honestly can't stand those people. Their attitude, lack of any hint of knowledge about cars they are selling or appreciation of the customer from the sales people is just beyond my ability to talk to them without being instantly pissed. Anyhow, I figured it's 5 minutes from my house, I am not going to drive 30 miles to another service where I might or might not get better treatment. I was ready to take it to hell and back with those pricks if I have to. ....and I was surprised. Both LCA recall and PTU service was done within 2 days. No problems to speak of. I didn't get a loaner but screw this, I just grabbed bike from the trunk and paddled back home. No biggy, I was much more concerned about service itself. First thing after service I checked if they even swapped PTU...yes that's how paranoid I am but I had my share of BS with dealerships so NOTHING will surprise me. PTU is brand spanking new, all works well, zero cost to me for both services.....so far so good. Now that I think about it ....PTU ext. service period is good upto 90k right? So, I am good for another 8k miles....now wondering if there is any warranty on new unit itself that would extend this period. I am also not sure if it's better to service yourself or leave it be until it hits 90k. Not sure if they can tell that drain plug was open but if they do, I wouldn't be surprised if they denied service under warranty. Thoughts?
Anyways, I think I might have an idea on 1st symptom that might hint you to the failing PTU. I bought car at the end of FEB. I checked the hell out of AWD before purchase. All was good. Tranny also had crisp, smooth shifts. After ...maybe 2 weeks I started noticing that 1st to 2nd gear shift was far from smooth....hesitation and behaved almost as if something was holding it back...if I was depressing brake during shift lightly ...that's how tranny would act. Initially I thought that since my honeymoon with a new car is ending ...I am basically starting to notice little crap like that. After new PTU was installed though 1st > 2nd shift was noticeably smoother. To think about it...it all makes sense. Low speed going 1st to 2nd, even with all that mass, car doesn't have enough momentum yet so any little added friction will affect the shift. I am thinking that failing PTU simply adds to the parasitic losses in the system....it's not a lot ...enough though for a OCD guy like me to notice that this shift is little slow and little hesitant. So be on the look out .....if tranny gets lazy on you.....get under that car right away. My shifts got lazy some ...2 weeks before I noticed first leak ....and I had leak for max 2/3 days before PTU was swapped. I didn't even asked them to check splines. I knew they wouldn't anyways.....or they would tell me whatever is benefiting them more...and I was quite positive tranny splines are healthy. I would notice if gears actually seized.
Now little bit about my service experience. So I called the closest to me mazda service. One of the worst in Chicago land - ROTO mazda, or so I thought. I honestly can't stand those people. Their attitude, lack of any hint of knowledge about cars they are selling or appreciation of the customer from the sales people is just beyond my ability to talk to them without being instantly pissed. Anyhow, I figured it's 5 minutes from my house, I am not going to drive 30 miles to another service where I might or might not get better treatment. I was ready to take it to hell and back with those pricks if I have to. ....and I was surprised. Both LCA recall and PTU service was done within 2 days. No problems to speak of. I didn't get a loaner but screw this, I just grabbed bike from the trunk and paddled back home. No biggy, I was much more concerned about service itself. First thing after service I checked if they even swapped PTU...yes that's how paranoid I am but I had my share of BS with dealerships so NOTHING will surprise me. PTU is brand spanking new, all works well, zero cost to me for both services.....so far so good. Now that I think about it ....PTU ext. service period is good upto 90k right? So, I am good for another 8k miles....now wondering if there is any warranty on new unit itself that would extend this period. I am also not sure if it's better to service yourself or leave it be until it hits 90k. Not sure if they can tell that drain plug was open but if they do, I wouldn't be surprised if they denied service under warranty. Thoughts?
Drogos, glad everything worked out for you, I think you'll be good for 8000 miles, I don't think we've seen any PTU fail that early. From what I have seen, when you remove the PTU plug, some of that orange thread locking seal does break off, so dealer can tell but it's not very obvious unless they really look for it, but like I said 8000 miles is not that much , I would just leave it alone until it hits 90,000 on the odometer. So if anything happens, the dealer will cover it. Also agree with you, that there are plenty of warning signs before the PTU seizes and the splines gets stripped.... leaking black oil, very strong burning oil smell inside passenger cabin after long drive, etc. if those are ignored, the PTU will seize eventually.
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long term reliability update: reached 100,000 miles with no issues !!!
hey guys,
glad to report I have hit 100,000 miles with no issues !! still with the original transfer case that came with the car.
I am 100% absolutely positive CX-9 transfer case failures are due to lack of oil maintenance, see below for pictures and video.
I was also able to get a good picture of the part number stamped on my PTU. For those interested, the part number is very accessible and visible. It's stamped on the bottomside of the PTU housing. For mine I'm assuming the first four digits in the last line is the date code of manufacture 1303 which means 2013 / 3rd week of 2013, not positive but that's how most datecodes are structured.
hey guys,
glad to report I have hit 100,000 miles with no issues !! still with the original transfer case that came with the car.
I am 100% absolutely positive CX-9 transfer case failures are due to lack of oil maintenance, see below for pictures and video.
I was also able to get a good picture of the part number stamped on my PTU. For those interested, the part number is very accessible and visible. It's stamped on the bottomside of the PTU housing. For mine I'm assuming the first four digits in the last line is the date code of manufacture 1303 which means 2013 / 3rd week of 2013, not positive but that's how most datecodes are structured.
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I believe that was a used high mileage 90k CX-9 that was never serviced, after the new owner swapped oil, leak was detected right after changing oil. Really can't blame changing oil to fail PTU, if PTU wasn't maintained properly for 90k.
Also, there was a brand new 2015 CX-9 that had a PTU failed and seized at 1500 miles but I believe that owner reported the PTU was bone dry, looks like it was an oddball event and the PTU wasn't properly filled with transfer case case oil from the factory.
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Hi. Just wondering if I remove the PTU plug as described, should I expect any oil to run out? I have a 2011 CX-9 with 76,000km (47,000 miles) on the clock and am keen to see the state of my transfer case oil before deciding if any further action is required. I have asked my local Mazda dealer to take a look on Friday during their service but I'm not convinced they know what I'm talking about!
