advice on a build/internals and stand alone ecu

F

Flogrown

Member
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03' Mazdaspeed Protege
hey yall, I am new to the forum and i would like some help pursuing a build that will take place once i have all the correct information to go about it and order the parts. I have a 03msp, with 70k miles on the body and engine. MY mods are as currently: GT28rs turbo manual boost controller/gauge, FMIC, ss tubular manifold, Greddy Emanage, vibrant 3" full turbo back exhaust, AEM water/meth injection system (hooked up but turned off for the mean time), 440cc wrx injectors, 5 puck (spring) stage 3 clutch. air/fuel reads 14-15 at idle, 12-14 WOT, and 11-13 when boosting. My boost is set at 10psi. I drive this car regular and rarely boost as of right now just casual driving until the internals are done. my local area has very few tuners who know about this car are say are not the most common.

My question to everyone out there who has built one is, what has worked best for your build when we are discussing forged internals. I have been looking at the forged wiseco pistons, K1 forge rods, arp studs. I would like to get a forged crank but have not looked into it yet any recommendations on crank, should the cams be changed as well?, Bored or stock size cyclinders. should the cyclinders be sleeved if left stock or can the block handle it? should i stick with the greddy emange to piggy back the ecu or are there any stand alones out there that would work for this car? what size injectors should i look into. does the chrome and polish need to be done to the top to adjust to the new internals. I am new to the MSP have been doing research but the best research is to ask you veterans out there who have been dealing with MSPs for a while.
thanks everyone!
 
You are on the right track, with rods, pistons, etc. I would highly recommend going to a standalone set up Haltech 500 CR3 Motorsports is a Haltech Dealer) would work for you. Get the Doc B Oil pump service and relocation kit and the AWR Oil pan. I would look into upgrading the tranny as well. Good luck, take your time and do it right, it will be worth it in the long run!
 
You're un fact on the right way. Just to be sure on the ARP studs, you must put the head studs absolutely. Main ARP studs are not bad but not mandatory if youre not going over 300hp.

The crankshaft on our FS-DE engine is already forged. You can try the lightweight crank sold on ************* but the OEM one will handle lots of HP. Just make sure to make it checked when rebuilding your engine, make it balanced and polished. One thing you could do is make it "knife edge" machined but it's not necessary.

As for the bore, just think of how much money you will put in your engine.... You don't want to skip a step or make it cheap: "Buy cheap = buy twice". So when building a forged engine, build it to make it " new" so yes, oversize the bore. If your engine has never been overaized, you shoud be able to overaize cylinders to 0.020". When boring these engines, you will need new oil squirters. Check at your dealer or on *************.

Standalone for sure! But when choosing wich one, make sure someone near you knows this model and knows how to tune it. For example, I run a Megasquirt-II standalone unit, it's not expensive and a friend near me knows exactly how to build it, modify it, install it and tune it. But if nobody near you knows this ECU, don't buy it because you'll find no one to tune it.

If you keep the same turbo, you could keep your 440cc injectors but you could maybe hit the 100% duty cycle depending how much you boost... And that's dangerous to be lean in full boost and blow the engine. So to be safer you could get yourself 565cc STI injectors (the pink ones)

As for the rest of the build, take yourself ACL or Clevite77 full engine bearing set. Head gasket can be an OEM, it's tough. But if you decide to put a Cometic MLS one, make sur the head and block deck are perfect because these gaskets doesn't really accept uneven surgaces. Make sure to balance every rotating parts (crank, bearings, rods, pistons, pulley, flywheel). Also make sure to adjust the ring gap according to how much boost you'll throw in it.

As for the ignition, don't know what you US guys are using, but with the Megasquirt, guys here put GM LS1 coils, but mine runs with a MSD SRT-4 coilpack driven by two 1st gen igniters controlled by the Megasquirt. Also run colder plugs.

And after all that, you'll realize that our transmissions are made out of cardboard....... So if you don't want to blow a truckload of trannies, check out the GB of MFactory for forged gears and the GB of Ferdi for the transmission reinforcement plate.

Good luck with all this!
 
Forgot the cams... Stock ones work well, some puts Corksport or FS-ZE ones, and if you find some, there's also Integral Racing that looks violent!!!
 
yall are awesome thanks for the advice going to look into them all and do some research. clement ghost my vehicle is from Canada its in all KM/h as well so would the ignition set up be the same as yours to take the route with "MSD SRT-4 coilpack driven by two 1st gen igniters controlled by the Megasquirt. Also run colder plugs."?
 
Perro del Sol said:
You are on the right track, with rods, pistons, etc. I would highly recommend going to a standalone set up Haltech 500 CR3 Motorsports is a Haltech Dealer) would work for you. Get the Doc B Oil pump service and relocation kit and the AWR Oil pan. I would look into upgrading the tranny as well. Good luck, take your time and do it right, it will be worth it in the long run!
Click to expand...


the haltech you are talking about would that be the platinum sprint 500?
 
yes the sprint 500 would be the one he is referring to. most tuners will be able to tune with this as its one of the most common standalone systems.
 
I got Integral Racing cams... But I don't sell them!

As for the ignition system; not sure to understand your question?!?!
 
Flogrown said:
yall are awesome thanks for the advice going to look into them all and do some research. clement ghost my vehicle is from Canada its in all KM/h as well so would the ignition set up be the same as yours to take the route with "MSD SRT-4 coilpack driven by two 1st gen igniters controlled by the Megasquirt. Also run colder plugs."?
Click to expand...
where in Canada?
i used k1 rods with wiseco pistons overbore .020 port n polished everything machined n matched. Arp and cometic hardware gaskets. No problems in canadian winter driving lol.
 
Hey, you're on the right track by asking questions. Everyone has mentioned basically everything you need for the engine BUT on the Protg one other IMPORTANT aspect is the transmission......Even if you have everything built to the T your Trans is gonna go BOOM!....Contact PAR or get on the MFactory group buy, depending on you power goals ( If you're looking at around 300hp) I'd suggest at the VERY MINIMUM you look into getting your 3rd and 4th gears "WPC TREATED" as added insurance. ( Google it) ......As far as a standalone I'd go with the HALTEC sport 500 as there are others here that can help with the installation, I think there's also a HALTECH "how to" here on the forum....The first question I should have asked is how much $$$$ you working with????
 
about 8 grand no more than 10....., rods, pistons, standalone, injectors, oil sump, tranny gears, axles, and the little things like gaskets bearings etc think came out to about 4grand when I tallied it up. leaves me with the remaining for labor of the install, and any kind of machine shop work that would be done, plus the tuning and that would be my main goal of 300-350hp. but then again this is my daily, so my secondary goal, i just want to be able to get on it without worrying about destroying the stock internals, all it takes is that one time and a rods bent. so i was going to just do the forged internals and tune it with the piggy back greddy at about 12-15 psi boost. im not racing the car, so dropping 8 grand is a little overkill for me "i know i contradict myself". but of course its always a nice feeling knowing your car is upgraded to its upmost potential... The cheaper side of me just wants it to be stronger and reliable, not the fastest, so when i boost im not saying this is the last time shell drive type of feeling.
 
Flogrown said:
about 8 grand no more than 10....., rods, pistons, standalone, injectors, oil sump, tranny gears, axles, and the little things like gaskets bearings etc think came out to about 4grand when I tallied it up. leaves me with the remaining for labor of the install, and any kind of machine shop work that would be done, plus the tuning and that would be my main goal of 300-350hp. but then again this is my daily, so my secondary goal, i just want to be able to get on it without worrying about destroying the stock internals, all it takes is that one time and a rods bent. so i was going to just do the forged internals and tune it with the piggy back greddy at about 12-15 psi boost. im not racing the car, so dropping 8 grand is a little overkill for me "i know i contradict myself". but of course its always a nice feeling knowing your car is upgraded to its upmost potential... The cheaper side of me just wants it to be stronger and reliable, not the fastest, so when i boost im not saying this is the last time shell drive type of feeling.
Click to expand...

Man.....you were on the right track till you said PIGGY BACK(notcool)(bs) lol Just get the sport 500, internals, flywheel, and 3rd and 4th gears, 2.5 to 3 inch exhaust. Garrett gt30, you don't even have to get head work done ( it will help but for those power goals it's not absolutely necessary)... DONE!! 350hp all day with change left over
 
what company makes good 3rd and 4th gears? I heard the GTX ones are garbage and Mfactory is still in the process of coming out with their first batch for those 11 since like last year lol don't know what they are doing over there but dillydaggling themselves instead of making the gears like they said. I looked at par and I want them but if I can get away without spending 3500 that would be awesome. I need a LSD and a reinforcement plate as well so what brands and where can I find these last few gems? pretty much everything is ordered for the engine build and should be shipped and in my hands in a week or two. now I need the tranny parts so I can begin and finish this build all at once.
 
mazdaspeedpower said:
where in Canada?
i used k1 rods with wiseco pistons overbore .020 port n polished everything machined n matched. Arp and cometic hardware gaskets. No problems in canadian winter driving lol.
Click to expand...

my car was in Quebec. I see you have unichip? I have a greddy e-manage really havnt tuned it or had any one mess with it besides one map. I ordered a standalone but I am curious how is the tunability with the stock ecu whilst using a piggyback. Of course with stand alone skys the limits, but with the piggy back how much tweaking can you get out of it tricking the ecu? is the stock ecu a pain and adjust or is the ecu pretty controllable? for injector sizes, psi, hp.. ect.... cause If I can tune my car with the piggy back greddy and be at 300-350 hp, with 565 sti injectors I already ordered, ill call tomorrow and have the standalone canceled and just save that much more instead of having a overkill product that I wont use full potential because I don't want to be pushing 500 or 600 hp. my cars a daily. there my reason for only wanting 350hp max.
 
get the piggyback try to tune for 350whp and send those $8000 thru the toilet.
If you are still going piggyback after 2 pages of people telling about standalone, get another engine forged because you will need it.

Then, with this setup, your transmission will be fine, as the engine is going to blowup before reaching 350whp.

Just trying to be some sort of....rude with this...

At 350whp or so, you need ignition advance close to 10 degrees total advance on pump gas. 16-20 deg on race fuel.

Try to enjoy the car...dont shoot too high because all the fun will be lost if you blow a forged engine. 300whp is some serious power on this platform, it does really feel different than other 300whp cars....theres too much torque.

700whp is the integrity limit of the block, you will open a hole in cyl4 or bend the block enough to snap the mains.
 
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