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NC_MSP

Member
Hey guys...I figured since i'm in the MSP forum the most...and I'm plannin on buyin one I would post the thread here.....Like i said in the other thread I think its high time our public needs to know the secrets and whatnot that dealerships don't want them to know.....so fire away...i will answer every question honestly and to the best of my ability...and if its somethin i dont honestly know i can prolly find out....thanks and i'm lookin forward to makin alot of people happy...
 
well...that would be a rather long post.....I could give a few.....and if there are more things u wanna know....post more questions.....

First off....believe it or not.....this is the vehicle mark up secret....the higher the price...the more mark up....a 10K car doesnt have the same markup as a 50K car.....if a dealer is sellin a car for lik 15K his cost is prolly 13,5K....maybe less....i can give some reasonable examples.....the ford dealer i worked at.....A 2002 mustang GT, 5spd, leather, cd and all power...retails for about 25K....actual cost is around 22...and depending on certain option packages....it could be less....alot of times....2 cars may look the same but make sure you look at the package # or letter cuz if they are different....there is a price difference in dealer cost which is most of the time cheaper and usually they know a customer will not know the difference therefore they can sell it for the same price as another....

dealers can special order cars for no extra cost.....they don't want you to know that...but I do....also locating cars from another dealer....they shouldnt be charging for that....

always look at your car before you purchase it....i mean in detail...because a door handle can have a nic in it....or i have even seen a car that has been egged....and after we sold the car...didnt tell the customer about it..and after their first wash...paint came off....where the egg had sat on it so long...and they didnt want to pay for that.

where dealerships make most of their money is actually in used cars. The way this works is give the customer the least for his car so that you can sell it for a little over book and make bank on it. I've seen this done so many times it would make yer head spin....this is also how many people get into debt when they trader a vehicle that has a balance left on it....specially fairly new vehicles....that the person could owe like 15K on...and the dealer says the car is only worth 10 or 12....which sometimes can be true...but most of the time they can get you close to your payoff.
The ONLY exceptions...are dodge neons.....and PT Cruisers....these are debt traps.....1. neons do not hold value at all. brand new they can sell for like 11K and within 6 months its only worth 7K. And 2. PT Cruisers do not hold their value as well as they are marked up...I don't think its as bad now as it was when they first came out....cuz we used to sell cruisers at the dodge place i worked and I'm talkin base model 5spd, cloth, cass, for 20...which cost was only 14.....this should go as a clue for the new PT cruisers coming out....the new GT which is gonna be turbocharged....dealers will be marking these things up over the roof. So anyone that was interested in one of these....i would suggest goin to a dealer and puttin a deposit down(make sure its refundable as well as the deposit is goin against MSRP)

lets get into deposits for a minute...Anytime you go to put a deposit down on a special car or limited edition....Make sure that it will be refundable...there's no such thing as non-refundable...they just say that to try to scare ya into buyin the car....how could they possibly make you buy a car that came in and you didnt like it...or was priced too high....hence...refundable deposits. Also make sure u get a receipt and on this receipt they write down that this deposit is going against MSRP of the vehicle...alot of dealers don't like to do this...this is where you're negotiation skills or BS degree comes in handy....they will do their best to get around MSRP because then they can't mark up the car...even if you want this car desperatly...try not to show it....if they don't agree to your terms....get up or start to walk out....usually they will agree to your terms....

Monthly Payments: Everytime you get into an office and they are working you for a monthly payment....already have an amount stuck in your head and do not budge from that....trust me..it pays off....to give yourself an idea of what your payments will be....apply this.....$18.50 - 25.00 for every $1000 financed....lets say you were lookin at a 20K car...like the new MSP....you would take 18.5 * 20 = 370, and go up thru 25 * 20 = 500....this is most likely your payment range.....which this does also depend on credit.....if I were lookin at a 20K car....and I usually would put anywhere from 1k to 2k down....to take care of taxes and tags and things.....and I would say I want my payment at 400 a month....and they will come back and say could you go 450...and i say no...400...thats it...just stay firm at your payment range...the reason they try to boost you up in payment...is so when they are putting you info into the computer....they can work in extra warranty items into that payment range....and when you go into the finance office....they lay it on ya....the biggest thing about dealerships is letting them have control of the sale....thats what they want....I could just about promise...if a manager does see a salesman having a rough time keeping control of a sale....they will come over and take control...or attempt to anyway....don't let them...because once they know they have control...they know they have you locked....

I'm just looking: The most common phrase used to try to deter a salesman away from you so you aren't annoyed....guys...we're all trained...to never leave a customers side....i promise that depending on the owner of the dealership or the manager...if they see a salesman leave a customer alone and go back to waitin around....he will either get chewed out or fired....which i know is retarded....but thats how it is.....honest to god truth....thats how i lost my last job at the ford dealership....i couldn't get the customer inside to talk to a manager and the owner seen it and that was all she wrote.....You have 2 choices here.....you can either let the salesman think he's in control by letting him show you the cars you want to see...or...you can tell him to leave you alone....if he keeps on and on about how he's just there to answer any questions you might have....just go talk to a manager and tell em u dont wanna be bothered...yer just there to look.....and sometimes...a manager will say...well..there might be somethin on the vehicle you don't know about....tell him you know all about these vehicles...and if he blurts out somethin about the vehicle you didnt know...just say...well..thats not one of my concerns....
 
I'm just looking(cont.): like i said before...dealerships are all about controlling the sale....which is wrong...because that means the customer prolly isnt getting what they want. but also....the best thing to do when lookin at a new car.....go on sunday....all the dealerships are closed...u can look at them without bein harassed....any info on the cars u CAN find online.....so do your homework and then go to the dealership with a loaded gun....but the main thing is control. You tell them exactly what you're looking for...and what you wanna pay for it...and if they don't have the car....and u like this particular dealership....they can locate one....and u can get the payments where u want them...One little side note....if you go to the same dealership everytime u buy a new car....you guys will become friends and most of the time they start treatin u right....discounts and stuff like that....so don't exactly torture them...but...don't let them run u over either....

let's see....whats next...

Credit: I know this isn't a big secret....but...it's something I wish to address....people...if you have bad credit...and you know if you do....late car, credit card, house payments..etc....It's hard to get a new car....even harder to get a used one....so if you do have bad credit....don't think you can't get a new car....but u gotta have certain things....one is money down....save whatever u can...cuz if yer like me....i gotta come up with 3K to get my MSP.....which wont be too hard...but it might take me 2 months....so i might not get one at all....also don't go lookin at a 40K car if you are wantin 300 dollar payments..unless u got like 25K down...it aint gonna happen.....the other biggest thing is....goin dealer hoppin...if u don't get approved at one dealership...don't start goin up and down the strip applyin everywhere....cuz this does ruin yer credit...everytime a dealership runs a credit app on you...yer credit report takes about 4 or 5 hits..sometimes more....which brings down your beacon score....which can determine whether or not u get a car.....every inquiry on your credit report takes off around 15 points of your beacon score....a beacon score is a rating at the top of your credit report....the higher the number the better your credit rating is....for instance...you have to have at least a 625 to get a credit card...or finance most furniture and stuff like that...now a perfect beacon is like a 900...which are few and rare..i've seen a few 800....but the most common is 650 to 675....and how your beacon is achieved is credit history....like are payments made on time...if late...how many times late...30, 60, 90 days late...how many times.....how many credit inquiries in a certain period of time..this all affects your credit....which i hope this helps some people out.....now...if by some chance you've been applyin for every credit card out there or been dealership hoppin recently...stop....it takes at least 6 months to clear inquiries off your credit report....and if after 6 months they don't dissapear...u need to contact a credit bureau like Equifax...and they will have u come in pay em like 12 bucks to go over yer report and take care of anything that doesnt need to be on there...My biggest thing when i sold cars was people who just hated me because I couldn't get them approved for a car....dealerships can do nothing about your credit..only you control that one....my biggest pointer is to always go prepared....know your credit..u can always pull it from equifax...they charge like 6 bucks for a print out of yer credit history....have your down payment ready...and know where u wana be at on payments...that wraps up credit


Advertisements: I know everyone has seen these...in the paper every day...a dealership has a print out of cars for sale..most of the time a couple of pics of new ones...but a big list of used ones....and with the new ones...they always have a pic of a car that says....i.e...2002 mustang GT.....18K....and you go...OMG....thats cheap as hell....i gotta go get that.....this is all a marketing ploy....its rigged.....there is only 1 car like that on the lot...and usually its....base....base as base can get....i'm talkin nothin....no air, no power, no leather no nothin...and yes these do exist....its to get you into the dealership because now they know you were lookin for a mustang...and guess what.....they have a million other mustangs on the lot...but none for 18K....all the rest are like 22 and up....so now what they do is go back to that control thing.....and try to sell from their inventory...so don't ever read ads.....the only things that should ever concern you are rebates and interest rates...which can be good.....

lemme go back to credit right quick....people....if your credit is not so hot...like mine....u arent gonna get those special interest rates..those are for people with crystal clear credit....u should look at those rebates.....specially like 2500 dollar rebates....cuz u know what that means...not money off the car....thats money for down payment....yes...thats right....u just got $2500 free down payment money...this doesnt mean don't bring any money of your own...cuz if u have not so hot credit...you're gonna need your own money....but...the rebates help alot....like lets say yer lookin at a 25000 car....and the bank will only loan up to 22000 because u dont have good credit....and u only have 1k to put down....well...then the dealership comes in and this is where rebates go to work....that car has a 3K rebate on it....well...now the price is down from 25 to 22...plus with your 1k..its down to 21...which now the bank is gonna be even happier..cuz they don't ahve to loan as much money.....also...for people with not so hot credit....do not look to finance used cars....specially high mileage vehicles....1...banks won't loan u the money...2....no warranty....and FYI....unless its a collector car or bentley or MB or somethin....if it has over 100K miles on it....it wont get financed...when a car reaches over 100K miles its value drops 80%......and banks know that if they loan the money and the person doesnt pay their bill...they have to repossess it and are now stuck with a car that they can't get their money out of it because it isnt worth it.....

just another foot note here.....the best time to buy a car is the day it comes off the truck.....if u hang around a dealership enough...i know it can take some time away...but its worth to learn when the trucks arrive with the new cars.....cuz u can just look for the car u want on the truck and when it comes in....tell u want that car....right there....1. no mark up cuz they can't add anything to it because u want it just the way it is and for the price on the window...sometimes u can haggle...like i said before....dealers get that holdback...on new cars they can sell em for cost and still get paid...and 2 no miles....and no one else will have been sittin in your car....its kind of kewl...me and my mazda salesman have a pretty good relationship as well as his sales manager...i basically went in and played hardball....i said i wasnt gonna pay over MSRP for it....and thats what my deposit went for....but now we're all kewl.....and we got a deal worked out that if i don't have enough money when an MSP comes in.....they will hold it for me....but mainly because i have a deposit and I'm honest....

i think thats about it for now...if there's somethin i didnt cover and you wish to know....just post a reply...i'll answer questions as long as questions are asked
 
"so do your homework and then go to the dealership with a loaded gun"

Um... all that other stuff is great information, but I wouldn't really suggest this to anybody. Somebody will take you seriously!

Lol.

Chris
 
roflmao.....thanks chris....i should rephrase that shouldn't I....in reference to "do your homework and go to the dealership with a loaded gun"....leave the 45 at home.....i mean go to the dealership prepared to respond to any question they might ask...thanks again chris.....i would have felt bad if i read in the news somewhere that someone shot a salesman over a car...even though it woulda been a little funny...
 
NC_MSP said:
oh..i forgot to mention i can give u tips on dealin with telemarketers and bill collectors too.....

LOL, do it up man! Good novel so far. :)
 
when I put my deposit down my retail purchase order says im buying the car for 1000 over MSRP. This was months ago and its my frist time buying a car, and the sales manager who is who I am dealing with, just said "ok, and the price for this is going to be 1000 over the MSRP because it is limited edition and we are trying to make back some of the money lost in beginning a mazdaspeed franchise" and i was like "ok, sure" thinking that everyone would be paying over msrp and that they charged 2000 or something over on MP3s so 1000 over isnt too bad. I have since heard all the discussions on here and have called some other regional dealers and now I dont want to pay over MSRP. Im going in sometime this week to talk to the sales manager about it. What advice do you give me? It is a reufndable deposit so if he refuses to go down on price I could take my money and go to another MS dealer (probably another hour away though so really inconvenient) but I do like the dealership, and it is relatively close (only 45 minutes) so I was thinking of one of the following.......trying to convince the dealer to throw in 1000 bucks worth of MAZDASPEED accessories and stuff knowing that he will make money off me having them installed, or 1000 bucks worth of labor knowing he will make money when I buy his parts, or having him throw in a sunroof and rustproof and all that kinda stuff. Whats the down low? Do i have a chance? what approach should I take?
 
yea u got a chance....dont do the whole 1000 dollars worth of parts or labor though.....cuz yer gonna get ripped in that situation trust me....1st i would go to the other MSP dealer and tell them that u have a deposit at another dealer...but he's wantin to charge u over MSRP...don't mention how much....tell them that if they will give u the car for MSRP....u'll do business....and 9 times out of 10...they will...just so they can take away business from another dealer...its like braggin rights....once the dealer agrees....just go back to the other dealer and tell him that u want yer money back because u got a better deal at another dealership....either he'll give u the money back or do the deal at MSRP....there u go my friend....u just gotta play hardball....don't let them get the best of u....if at anytime u feel like you're losing control of the situation...just ask for your money and leave....if u need more info...just send another reply...
 
Wow this is great stuff NC_MSP....very informative. I think we might have to compile all this info into one post and set it up as a sticky or a kind of "how-to". I know for certain there's some info in here that I wish I had when I bought my MP3!
 
That is great info! I have learned so much in the last 10 minutes. I always used the stay there for hours approach. I would sit at the salesmans desk haggling with him for like 4 hours. When I bought my MP3, they tried that $1000 over sticker for limited edition, but I said NO. I sat there at his desk and argued with him for 4 hours. Then he got tired and called the manager over to start in on me. I told the manager to go away because I was doing the deal with him and he wasn't about to do the famous pass off. So after like another hour, I was paying 18440 for a 18550 car. But they still killed me in taxes and stuff. Do you have any info on taxes and title stuff. Are those things variable or are the set prices and rates?
 
Well...

...that was great info NC_MSP, I've been reading this forum for a while b/c I'm very interested in purchasing the MSP. I spoke w/my local MSP dealership and they said they were getting 10 and I could reserve one for as little as $100 refundable and there is probably still room on the list (I haven't been able to make it in b/c so much crap keeps coming up). Anyways, if all goes as planned this will be my first car purchase new or used, but I have no credit what so ever. Not bad or slow credit, no credit...I've never had a credit card and my student loans are deferred for a while. Will I have to put down a huge down payment or something to be able get a MSP? Thanks in advance.
 
i already posted this in one thread but it belongs here too.....

I went into my dealer told him I have talked to other dealers in the area and no one else is charging over MSRP, and that there will be a second run of these cars in the spring so they arent even as limited as he leads me to believe, and i said that I had decided not to pay over MSRP and he says "ok, lemme go cancel your order"

what a prick. I tried to talk with him for a minute about it and he was zero tolerance not moving an inch on the price. I said well I would like to keep my business with you but I dont like the idea of getting jerked around, and thats what you are doin to me if I am paying more for a car than anyone else for no reason. and he says "there is a reason, I have more buyers than I do cars" NICE.......REAL NICE........good to see a dealer lookin out for their customers........E@#I$E@#R@*(.........so now I need to find another mazdaspeed franchise in my area (the ones I called that I know are not charging over MSRP are a cple hours away, super inconvenient)
and one that BETTER STILL HAVE AN ORANGE MS-P LEFT GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
well you came pretty close today to hearing about a customer backing over a sales manager with the mercury marauder sitting on the showroom floor....

:mad:
 
Hey guys...first off. Thanks alot for the compliments..i'm glad i can help people out. It means alot to me.

BigBen - about taxes, titles and fees. There's pretty much no way around it....u should be able to look around online and find out what yer state sales tax is...like here in NC.....its 3%....so always know that and do your own math to make sure they arent dickin ya in price....then u got title fees....these can vary as well....now....for everyone here...you are gonna hate this...but there is no way around it....but believe it or not...dealers make millions....just off "doc fees"....short for documentation fees.....this is what they say is used to pay for the office people to do the paperwork.....well...usually the doc fee for every app is 300 dollars or somewhere around there.....this fee is bogus as hell...its like free money to them....its pure profit.....they make enough money on the car profit to pay everyone....that doc fee is just somethin they charge....every dealer does it....and there is no way around it...cuz its perfectly legal...i just wanted to let everyone know that...

Syndicate - ....bout havin no credit...yer kind of hurt there...cuz when you go to buy a car for the first time and have no credit....you gotta have money down....and if yer lookin at one of these new MSP's....yer prolly gonna need 1500 to 2K....that should do it.....if u need anything further just lemme know....

slug420 - As for that dealer....he's just tryin to call yer bluff....they know that people are out there that will over pay for a car.....cuz they know there is always someone that will want that car bad enough and it will clog their mind and all that person will think bout is gettin that car and price wont even be on their mind...and the dealer will have em in and out that door in high ass payments and highly screwed over....if u want to do business with that dealer...again tell em u like them and you want to do business....tell them you're givin em 1 last chance....they can do like other dealers.....and sell it at MSRP...or...they can lose all their MSP business.....cuz its perfectly legal to tell everyone that these other dealers that they are sellin them at MSRP and this one is overcharging them....and they'll either play ball or not...not all dealers are easily defeated...so u might have to go to another which can be bad...but if it saves u that 1 or 2 thousand dollars...its worth it man...believe me.....here where i live....there's a local kid sellin an MP3 for 22....no mods....then there's a dealer sellin an MP3.....17,5.....even though they are an hour away..where u think i'm goin....anyways...thats bout all i can tell ya....and hey guys if you want to talk to me online..my screen name on aol...is Vlade2001...feel free to IM me anytime.....i guess thats all for now...hit me up with anything u wanna know..later guys..and thanks again.
 
Let me tell you that I could of gotten screwed at Freeman Mazda in Irving. I was looking for a MP3 after I wrecked my Focus, and I definitely had a $1800 down payment. My credit was, and is still tight. Anyways, The salesguy tried everything, and finally I was speaking to the sales manager. He said that he was not gonna budge cause people wanted these cars. They were asking for close to 1500 over MSRP just to start. I am glad that Asianhottie was with me, cause she accually had some great experience with buying a car, and helped me out here. This was before I got hip to the game. The best move I ever made was leaving that place. I went to Hiley Mazda here in Arlington, who would sell me the car for MSRP, but the day before I got my insurance money, they had sold the one they had. That left me to call around the state. I finally talked to Mazda South in Austin who I gave a credit card # to so that he would hold the car for me while I made the 2 1/2 hour trip to Austin. Before I left, he told me that he was seling it for MSRP. They could have gotten me a good interest rate if I lived in the area, but I didn't. They accually let me off the lot without a final deal so that I could seek approval from my credit union for a better rate of 6.25%, which I got.
 
see thats what i'm talkin about.....not lettin the dealer win.....you don't have to give in.....there are other places to go....and I promise one will want to earn yer business as Linux learned. Anyways....i'm glad to see people sharin their stories and askin questions...keep em comin guys....thanks
 
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