Just ordered one off Ebay (hopefully it's not crap) and downloaded the Torque Pro app, so to be continued.
Losing my mind with this car!
- Thread starter KCKrogoth
- Start date
Just ordered one off Ebay (hopefully it's not crap) and downloaded the Torque Pro app, so to be continued.
That could be a huge part of your problem... The ECU needs to relearn how to run the car every time it's started.
I know that applies to idle and the IAC but it would only make sense that it would also apply to all engine operation.
Your ECU may be trying to figure out how to get power at the 3100 rpm range then forgets everything every time you shut it off.
...or... (throwing this out there) at above 3K is when the VICS starts to open up... If one set of plates was not opening up (screw failure long ago) the mis-matched runner length for half the engine could maybe.. I dunno'... mess up performance?
It runs well at other speeds up to 3K RPM...
[shrug]
It runs well at other speeds up to 3K RPM...
[shrug]
Well here is the latest update to the soap opera that is my car...
Changed out the coil packs with the new ones (Again), no change. This is leaving me to believe there is something else wrong and nothing to do with the packs, wires, plugs due to the fact that they have all been changed multiple times with different combos and nothing was fixed.
Decided to tear into the timing belt and see if I jumped a tooth or if the timing was off and to also hunt down an oil leak (thinking it was my Front Main seal...good news it it's not and the timing area is relatively dry from oil other than what got through the timing covers. Bad news is, I have no idea where the oil leak is now, so I still have to hunt that down, and the timing covers got damaged from the pulleys rubbing on them somehow...more parts to order) The Timing is spot on and the belt looks great, so kind of a relief but not really, was hoping to find an error in there for the easy solution, but no avail.
So now my next step is to tear off the intake manifold and go through that, along with clean up the disgusting mess of an engine as I wait on replacement parts for the timing covers and valve cover gasket (I ripped while taking off the valve cover, that RTV is serious stuff on them corners by the cam seals.)
The journey continues....(hand)
Changed out the coil packs with the new ones (Again), no change. This is leaving me to believe there is something else wrong and nothing to do with the packs, wires, plugs due to the fact that they have all been changed multiple times with different combos and nothing was fixed.
Decided to tear into the timing belt and see if I jumped a tooth or if the timing was off and to also hunt down an oil leak (thinking it was my Front Main seal...good news it it's not and the timing area is relatively dry from oil other than what got through the timing covers. Bad news is, I have no idea where the oil leak is now, so I still have to hunt that down, and the timing covers got damaged from the pulleys rubbing on them somehow...more parts to order) The Timing is spot on and the belt looks great, so kind of a relief but not really, was hoping to find an error in there for the easy solution, but no avail.
So now my next step is to tear off the intake manifold and go through that, along with clean up the disgusting mess of an engine as I wait on replacement parts for the timing covers and valve cover gasket (I ripped while taking off the valve cover, that RTV is serious stuff on them corners by the cam seals.)
The journey continues....(hand)
Well, manifold is off and inspected, VICS system is operating fine and not missing any hardware. Next step is to clean everything, install new vacuum lines while I have it off, and possibly replace the VICS solenoid. Thinking that it may not be actuating the actuator.
Also tore appart the power steering pump and will post a rebuild thread if anyone needs.
Also tore appart the power steering pump and will post a rebuild thread if anyone needs.
KCKrogoth,
Hang in there man, others are with you.
I've been working on the exact same problems off and on for 2 years on my 2003 protege5.
But lately I've been digging into it again...
I purchased a 2001 MP3 parts car from a friend(totaled in the rear) and I've been doing a lot of plug & play/parts swapping into my protege5...
Trying to solve the nightmare 3k rpm missfire/stumble issue, and the lack of power when accelerating under heavy loads, depending on the day...
I'm not a big typer so I'll try to keep it short...
-on 4th or 5th set of plugs/wires/coils with various manufacturers & specs.
-3rd intake manifold, currently the MP3 with stock vtcs removed
-MP3 ecu
-new injectors
-MP3 ss full exhaust
-EGR
-full emission system
And many more with lots of meter testing. ... I ran with headers after the first time I destroyed the pre cat, but I'm back to the stock exhaust manifold at the moment...
Compression test:good, Vacuum test: strong 18inhg, fuel test... Good and bad, still working on that.
The first time I pulled my original intake mani apart, all 4 vics shutters and 1 vtcs were flying around, my engine chewed up 10 screws., I pulled out all of the mangled screws out of the pre cat, my vin was 2 months past the recall dates lol Mazda told me to suck it... (I documented the entire thing if anyone wants to see pics)
but somehow I still have compression... Although, I believe The missfire might be from a variety of internal issues.
Tonight I'm swapping out fuel pressure regularter, pressure damper, and working on a inline fuel pressure test.
i'll try to keep you updated on my findings.
Good luck!!!
Hang in there man, others are with you.
I've been working on the exact same problems off and on for 2 years on my 2003 protege5.
But lately I've been digging into it again...
I purchased a 2001 MP3 parts car from a friend(totaled in the rear) and I've been doing a lot of plug & play/parts swapping into my protege5...
Trying to solve the nightmare 3k rpm missfire/stumble issue, and the lack of power when accelerating under heavy loads, depending on the day...
I'm not a big typer so I'll try to keep it short...
-on 4th or 5th set of plugs/wires/coils with various manufacturers & specs.
-3rd intake manifold, currently the MP3 with stock vtcs removed
-MP3 ecu
-new injectors
-MP3 ss full exhaust
-EGR
-full emission system
And many more with lots of meter testing. ... I ran with headers after the first time I destroyed the pre cat, but I'm back to the stock exhaust manifold at the moment...
Compression test:good, Vacuum test: strong 18inhg, fuel test... Good and bad, still working on that.
The first time I pulled my original intake mani apart, all 4 vics shutters and 1 vtcs were flying around, my engine chewed up 10 screws., I pulled out all of the mangled screws out of the pre cat, my vin was 2 months past the recall dates lol Mazda told me to suck it... (I documented the entire thing if anyone wants to see pics)
but somehow I still have compression... Although, I believe The missfire might be from a variety of internal issues.
Tonight I'm swapping out fuel pressure regularter, pressure damper, and working on a inline fuel pressure test.
i'll try to keep you updated on my findings.
Good luck!!!
Thanks man, I'm going to keep updating this as I go also. Hopefully it will help others, this seems to be a somewhat common issue with the FS. I haven't had a chance to put the engine back together yet, been traveling alot...but soon as I get her in one piece again, I'll update the results of the new parts.
It's Gremlins !!!
You'll need,.. Holy water,... a Priest (or two),... a Shaman,... Magic rings (especially the oil ones)...
And the Ghost Busters... (but that's OK... They're all hot chicks now... )
Keep in mind that the gremlins that haunt our cars are the trickiest and most organized of all the gremlins that can haunt a car.... they can morph from logical to illogical,.. intuitive to counterintuitive... they know when you're after them and take evasive action.
You'll need,.. Holy water,... a Priest (or two),... a Shaman,... Magic rings (especially the oil ones)...
And the Ghost Busters... (but that's OK... They're all hot chicks now... )
Keep in mind that the gremlins that haunt our cars are the trickiest and most organized of all the gremlins that can haunt a car.... they can morph from logical to illogical,.. intuitive to counterintuitive... they know when you're after them and take evasive action.
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The engine ECU on these cars is total piece of garbage. It is not robust enough to handle any variation in input/output. Despite all of the swaps you've done with your ignition components, I would bet the issue is still in that area, and more specifically the coil packs.
When you swapped back to your 2.0 coil packs, did you swap all of the components back (wires and plugs as well)?
Did you disconnect the battery to reset the ECU between all of your swaps? If you say "yes", maybe you shouldn't have. If you say "no", maybe you should have. That's how dumb the ECU is. Maybe the initial ECU reset you did when you first swapped to the 1.8 parts is really what screwed you up.
I replaced a coil pack ~2000 miles ago with the cheap one from Autozone. The engine ran like crap at first and then leveled off at just stumbling under load if under 2000rpm for about 500 miles. It was really annoying so I replaced that coil pack with a cheap one from Advance Auto (and I reset ECU at the same time). The stumbling under load went away, but for the next 500 miles, the engine would stall if you even thought about taking your foot off the pedal. Now it's to the point where it will idle anywhere between 100-800 rpm, but never quite stalls. I couldn't tell you how long it took to work out the wonky idle the last time I reset the ECU (15,000 miles??). It was a long damned time.
My points are:
1. This engine/ECU does not like "different" parts (different= another brand or "better" performance).
2. The ECU takes a long time to relearn. Before drawing conclusions on any of your swaps, you should drive for a while. I couldn't tell you how long "a while" is; these cars weren't built with any QC in mind so it won't likely be comparable to mine.
Don't forget that you had no problems prior to doing the 1.8 ignition swap. That's more than likely where your issue is. It's not out of the question, but is unlikely that something else randomly went wrong at the same time.
When you swapped back to your 2.0 coil packs, did you swap all of the components back (wires and plugs as well)?
Did you disconnect the battery to reset the ECU between all of your swaps? If you say "yes", maybe you shouldn't have. If you say "no", maybe you should have. That's how dumb the ECU is. Maybe the initial ECU reset you did when you first swapped to the 1.8 parts is really what screwed you up.
I replaced a coil pack ~2000 miles ago with the cheap one from Autozone. The engine ran like crap at first and then leveled off at just stumbling under load if under 2000rpm for about 500 miles. It was really annoying so I replaced that coil pack with a cheap one from Advance Auto (and I reset ECU at the same time). The stumbling under load went away, but for the next 500 miles, the engine would stall if you even thought about taking your foot off the pedal. Now it's to the point where it will idle anywhere between 100-800 rpm, but never quite stalls. I couldn't tell you how long it took to work out the wonky idle the last time I reset the ECU (15,000 miles??). It was a long damned time.
My points are:
1. This engine/ECU does not like "different" parts (different= another brand or "better" performance).
2. The ECU takes a long time to relearn. Before drawing conclusions on any of your swaps, you should drive for a while. I couldn't tell you how long "a while" is; these cars weren't built with any QC in mind so it won't likely be comparable to mine.
Don't forget that you had no problems prior to doing the 1.8 ignition swap. That's more than likely where your issue is. It's not out of the question, but is unlikely that something else randomly went wrong at the same time.
^^^ What He Said ...
How much time did you give our dumbly computer to learn ???
The only way I can figure the 1.8 coil swap could have caused an engine problem is if the pounding of the miss-firing knocked something loose ???
Our ECU is factory set for our engine when it was brand new off the line...
Your engine was rebuilt which could be way off from a new original FS engine.
You may just need to give our stupid computer time to learn... (as well as the possibility of the seafoam to work...)
How much time did you give our dumbly computer to learn ???
The only way I can figure the 1.8 coil swap could have caused an engine problem is if the pounding of the miss-firing knocked something loose ???
Our ECU is factory set for our engine when it was brand new off the line...
Your engine was rebuilt which could be way off from a new original FS engine.
You may just need to give our stupid computer time to learn... (as well as the possibility of the seafoam to work...)
I haven't had the chance or time to get the rest of the engine put back together yet. The timing covers, and power steering pump, and generally that side of the engine is back together, but my intake mani is still removed and needs installed along with the new vacuum lines and such. I also still need to purchase a new battery. That being said, A lot of what Maroon and PCB are saying seems very relevant. I haven't had the ECU "alive" long enough to really re-learn anything being that I have to jump the car to start it every time I test it out, then after the test the battery dies again and resets anything the ECU could have to figure out.
I just seem to find it odd that the ECU could be the culprit because of the nature of the issue being at an exact RPM every time. Then again, who knows. Once I have time to finish installing everything, I'll get a fresh battery and drive around for a while longer and see what happens.
I just seem to find it odd that the ECU could be the culprit because of the nature of the issue being at an exact RPM every time. Then again, who knows. Once I have time to finish installing everything, I'll get a fresh battery and drive around for a while longer and see what happens.
hornsfan10609
Certified Mazda Tech
- :
- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege x2
I believe he does still do the reflashes. I'm surprised you are still having this problem, usually it's the ignition setup or the EGR. You will fix it eventually, don't give up on it.
I just put the MP3 CPU in my car last month. It didn't fix the 3000rpm random missfire/stumble.
To recap, I completely checked/swapped every component in the fuel system last week. It's not fuel related as far as pressure goes.
The new mazda wires ($50 for 2 leads wtf...) I just put them on and it did soften the buck, but not fix it.
I'm on my 5th set/brand of coil packs, 1 month old, but they are still aftermarket brand @$50 each. (the Mazda oem coil packs are up to $100 each, this could be the issue all along, but I just might snap if I spend 200 more dollars on mazda coils to find thats not the issue.
So, I took my car to Advanced auto yesterday to have the battery scanned again. (ya never know)
Note: My car has 12.5 volts cold not running. Always starts. battery has never been dead, and I've never had a battery light on.
Their scan tool showed an issue with the charging system.
(I've checked voltage many times before.)
Okay, so start the car
Running w/ accessories OFF: 14.4 volts
Running w/ lights, heat ON ect...: 13.5 volts
Then what do ya know, the condenser fan kicked on and dropped it down to 12.3 volts. (below spec)
I don't know for sure if somethings wrong here with the Alternator or if that could even domino down to causing a misfire. (I thought a coil pack only needed 9.5 volts to fire)
But if it was the cause of the 3000 rpm misfire/stumble, it would explain why the misfire is so random in nature. That rpm has high demand for power (about to break into the power band) and if the fan surged on, or already is on, causing a voltage drop, at the precise moment I'm accelerating through the load. It might explain how randomly inconstant my bucking misfire is, just unlucky timing?
In a 30 min drive, my car might misfire and buck 1 time.
The next day, it could misfire and buck 6 times.
the next day, not at all.
the next day, 10.
Thoughts?
In the mean time, ill check out the alternator...
To recap, I completely checked/swapped every component in the fuel system last week. It's not fuel related as far as pressure goes.
The new mazda wires ($50 for 2 leads wtf...) I just put them on and it did soften the buck, but not fix it.
I'm on my 5th set/brand of coil packs, 1 month old, but they are still aftermarket brand @$50 each. (the Mazda oem coil packs are up to $100 each, this could be the issue all along, but I just might snap if I spend 200 more dollars on mazda coils to find thats not the issue.
So, I took my car to Advanced auto yesterday to have the battery scanned again. (ya never know)
Note: My car has 12.5 volts cold not running. Always starts. battery has never been dead, and I've never had a battery light on.
Their scan tool showed an issue with the charging system.
(I've checked voltage many times before.)
Okay, so start the car
Running w/ accessories OFF: 14.4 volts
Running w/ lights, heat ON ect...: 13.5 volts
Then what do ya know, the condenser fan kicked on and dropped it down to 12.3 volts. (below spec)
I don't know for sure if somethings wrong here with the Alternator or if that could even domino down to causing a misfire. (I thought a coil pack only needed 9.5 volts to fire)
But if it was the cause of the 3000 rpm misfire/stumble, it would explain why the misfire is so random in nature. That rpm has high demand for power (about to break into the power band) and if the fan surged on, or already is on, causing a voltage drop, at the precise moment I'm accelerating through the load. It might explain how randomly inconstant my bucking misfire is, just unlucky timing?
In a 30 min drive, my car might misfire and buck 1 time.
The next day, it could misfire and buck 6 times.
the next day, not at all.
the next day, 10.
Thoughts?
In the mean time, ill check out the alternator...
I guess I'll try some other ideas then if the MP3 ECU didn't fix the problem...might still get it done in the future however, but not to try and fix the problem.
Decided to take a page from JonnyMP53 and check out the Alternator. Being the intake manifold is still removed, it's an easy item to access. I pulled it out and took it to the local starter shop (place I had rebuild my Alternator for the SR20) and had them run it. Not surprised, it failed. Only barely putting out 13.0 volts at speed. Looks like I need a rebuild, so there is another $140...Stupid expensive alternators in our cars. My SR only cost me $80 to rebuild....Can't win for anything. Soon as I get the money together and get it done and installed I'll update.
Decided to take a page from JonnyMP53 and check out the Alternator. Being the intake manifold is still removed, it's an easy item to access. I pulled it out and took it to the local starter shop (place I had rebuild my Alternator for the SR20) and had them run it. Not surprised, it failed. Only barely putting out 13.0 volts at speed. Looks like I need a rebuild, so there is another $140...Stupid expensive alternators in our cars. My SR only cost me $80 to rebuild....Can't win for anything. Soon as I get the money together and get it done and installed I'll update.
Maybe try running your car with all electrical loads on and then all off to see if that affects the misfiring ???
I'm pretty sure the torque app can log the voltage and misfiring in real time ...
