Massive smoking issue & crappy idle - after major "improvement" 2003 Mazda Protege :(

Standard, unless machining is performed.

Picking up a new engine on Monday. Salvage yard said it has good compression from 170-180 and blew no smoke. 144k. Anyone want my old engine?

How much did that set you back and what warranty?

$796 120 day warranty on parts only, no labour.

www.autorecycling.com They are really friendly on the phone.

It would be crazy to install a used engine for the purpose of solving oil burning without rebuilding it first. And at that point, why not just rebuild your own?

You're wasting your time and money.

I agree - after a bunch of research and mulling it over. After several quotes of $600 - 850 range I thought I finally found a great deal - $500 w/ 6 months warranty from a 137,000 km car and great compression numbers - 165-170 (although he gave a different set of numbers - higher than spec - when I showed up to look at it)... then I went and looked at both the engine and the donor car. The guy gave the engine a quick clean but it didn't take long to figure out the tells for several external leaks and many components were damaged - possibly from the accident, but I suspect some damage was done during removal. Several sensors busted off and it too had a gooey knock sensor... LOL. Clearly the donor car and engine were both neglected so I walked.

Head is off - taking it over to a machine shop for estimate and possible rebuild tomorrow. Aside from the buildup on the pistons which looks to be recent, and worst on #4 don't the pistons and the walls look pretty good? I did put seafoam in both the oil and the gas recently (half a can in each) so not sure if that made any difference in what we see here. The valves and the underside of the head looked pretty awful though (or is this normal?).

On a side note, with the IM removed there is now acres of room around the rear engine mount which I have been trying to replace for months. Wouldn't you know I still can't get a damn socket on the lower bolt for the electrical harness bracket. Last comment I read was a 10mm deep socket would work - not for this cat! Aside from getting mad and ripping the bracket off, any magic tool combination to get that annoying little sucker off?





Cyl #1 is on the left in the below picture....

Oh... and I forgot to mention - I must be pressurizing somehow because this engine, which never leaked a drop of oil previously, and only recently developed a slight seepage from one pan bolt is now leaking from the entire oil pan. I had only driven it for less than a week after the last maintenance troubleshooting session and I was surprised as heck to see Exxon Valdez all around my oil pan bolts and blowing back all over the underside of the car. I did have my PCV system disabled for a couple of days as a test but that didn't result in any improvement in oil consumption.

I wish there was a way to see the rings easily to find out how they look. My plan is to pull the lower oil pan tomorrow, and maybe even go up one more level. I'm trying to decide if I should go for the "quick and dirty" ring job on the car. I only have a loaner vehicle for another 8 days, no shop and no lift. I suppose I could just put the "new" head on and see if that fixes things, but in the one thread MrGiggles posted that didn't go well for one owner with a similar problem - he/she ended up doing the rings. I'd like to stop removing the same bits of the engine over and over and just enjoy driving the car again.

By those pics, rings look shot in 1 and 3.

Do a proper rebuild while its apart.

It is not reasonable to expect a rebuilt head to fix anything. You've replaced the seals how many times?

If you do anything less than replace your rings, you're wasting time. There's nothing wrong with doing it in the car if you determine the cylinders need nothing more than a hone. Taking it out for a full rebuild would be better, but if time doesn't allow, leave it in the car.

Problem is, in my experience, (and I've done this a lot) it is actually faster to pull the entire engine and transmission and do it properly than it is to try and complete the job in-situ.

The windage tray (upper oil pan) needs to come off, and because there are two bolts inside the bellhousing you need to remove to do this, the transmission needs to come off. You can drill the bellhousing in order to access them, but this is a very time intensive process, and you need to know exactly where to drill. It is faster to just pull the whole assembly.

Mostly it's the valves/guides I want cleaned up/checked, which should help things run better once I'm properly consuming gas (only) again. I don't have the time, workspace or equipment immediately available to pull the engine right now plus I need the car on the road asap so I'm going to try the on-car solution for the rings. MrGiggles referred to an excellent guide with pictures so hopefully it works. Apparently you can pry the bell housing open enough to get at the two bolts through notches in the flywheel.

Did you determine that the valve seals and guides were the cause of your leak then?

Nope. Seals are fine - machine shop has the head right now for disassembly, cleaning, another vacuum check post-cleaning to verify the valves and very light machining. A couple of valves on #2 cyl weren't sealing 100% but all 16 valves are really carboned up. I'm sure they will work much more efficiently post-cleaning. It seems like I really lucked out with this machine shop - very helpful guy heard out my whole story from start to finish, was genuinely interested in the service information/troubleshooting process. He gave some really great information, explained in detail with live samples how some things worked a little differently than I thought and unlike one of the other shops I talked to was very up on the exact specs/tolerance numbers - like they care. Gave me some good pointers for honing/pistons/rings etc. I'm looking forward to getting the pistons out to check the condition of the rings.

He said my camshafts look fine so that's good.

Got my lower oil pan off and just came in to review the how-to thread/pictures in order to get the bell housing pried away and upper pan removed. Updates to follow!

Mission successful! Both oil pans off, and I got the bell housing pried out far enough to reach the two little 10mm bolts. YAY! Small setback in that you need a 12 pt. 10mm socket to get the piston rod end caps off so the pistons will have to wait until morning. Small correction to the Mazda 626 writeup if anyone is following those instructions for the quick and dirty method... You're looking for 5 x 19mm bolts (not 6), 2 x 14mm bolts and 1 x12 mm bolt (not 2). Also, he mentions you don't need to pull the starter - you don't if you are off the ground high enough to extend with a pipe (if you have one) but in my case there was no pipe handy, my 16" breaker bar wasn't enough to break the torque and my 2' breaker bar wouldn't fit in the small space available so pulling the starter and using the 2' from above worked.

Good opportunity to clean the starter!

Tomorrow I'll post pictures of my "big end" and hopefully the removed pistons. By then the machine shop should have finished with the head and I'll get a report on conditions found/rectified.

Sigh. After the disassembly fun ends I am going to have a lot of cleaning to do.... (all the bits and pieces I have exposed, not to mention all the gasket/silicone mating surfaces)

Making some headway I see. I admire your work ethic.

Make sure you mark the rods and caps so they all go back on the same journal and in the right direction.

Thanks for the compliment, and the tip! Pistons, caps and corresponding shims all carefully marked and photographed for referral during careful reinstall...

Got the pistons out this morning (after I built a tarp tent in the pouring rain!), and over to the machine shop for inspection/advice. The mission was fairly uneventful, but glad I got the 3/8 drive socket instead of the 1/4" drive (12 point 10mm) as I had to upsize to 1/2" drive ratchet for a better pull.

Aftermarket rings ordered and should be here tomorrow but I'm going to have to dig around for some cash - still need all the gaskets/oil, cylinder head bots etc. and it's starting to add up. I think my upper O2 sensor is failing too from all the abuse but that one is going to have to wait.

After everyone's comments, and after the input from the machine shop I'm switching back to dino oil.

Ring state: The last ring (3-ring combo) on #4 cyl was seized, same ring on a couple of other cylinders stiff but none broken. Apparently the wear on the shims (if that's what those are called) is minimal. I'm going to soak the pistons in carb cleaner and clean out the grooves - then I can ask the fellow at the machine shop to put them on for me when I pick up the rest of the parts. LOL he was going to lend me the ring pliers/compressor tool but this way he can get rid of me faster and then I'll know they're on right...

The machinist did a really nice job on the head/valves but he said it took a long time to get the carbon off - it was really burnt on apparently. Valve guides and seals all fine. Another time (hopefully many months from now!) I'll maybe pull the head and do the valve grind/adjustment but since the head doesn't appear to be the culprit for the oil issue and given my budget he figured it wasn't necessary to get the car back on the road. The intake side is sealing 100% and the exhaust side not quite as good but he figured it would be fine under operating power.

Cylinder bores all look ok, except for an odd mark on Cyl #4 that I thought was quite concerning. I'm going to check it over more thoroughly in the morning now that I've had my debrief from the machinist and with any luck it will turn out to be nothing.

LostinCanada said:

Thanks for the compliment, and the tip! Pistons, caps and corresponding shims all carefully marked and photographed for referral during careful reinstall...

Got the pistons out this morning (after I built a tarp tent in the pouring rain!), and over to the machine shop for inspection/advice. The mission was fairly uneventful, but glad I got the 3/8 drive socket instead of the 1/4" drive (12 point 10mm) as I had to upsize to 1/2" drive ratchet for a better pull.

Aftermarket rings ordered and should be here tomorrow but I'm going to have to dig around for some cash - still need all the gaskets/oil, cylinder head bots etc. and it's starting to add up. I think my upper O2 sensor is failing too from all the abuse but that one is going to have to wait.

After everyone's comments, and after the input from the machine shop I'm switching back to dino oil.

Ring state: The last ring (3-ring combo) on #4 cyl was seized, same ring on a couple of other cylinders stiff but none broken. Apparently the wear on the shims (if that's what those are called) is minimal. I'm going to soak the pistons in carb cleaner and clean out the grooves - then I can ask the fellow at the machine shop to put them on for me when I pick up the rest of the parts. LOL he was going to lend me the ring pliers/compressor tool but this way he can get rid of me faster and then I'll know they're on right...

The machinist did a really nice job on the head/valves but he said it took a long time to get the carbon off - it was really burnt on apparently. Valve guides and seals all fine. Another time (hopefully many months from now!) I'll maybe pull the head and do the valve grind/adjustment but since the head doesn't appear to be the culprit for the oil issue and given my budget he figured it wasn't necessary to get the car back on the road. The intake side is sealing 100% and the exhaust side not quite as good but he figured it would be fine under operating power.

Cylinder bores all look ok, except for an odd mark on Cyl #4 that I thought was quite concerning. I'm going to check it over more thoroughly in the morning now that I've had my debrief from the machinist and with any luck it will turn out to be nothing.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking about it too. My car has been puffing smoke on cold starts sometimes after switching to Pennzoil Platinum. I never had an issue with Valvoline Maxlife.

That's the same oil I've been using (Pennzoil Platinum 5W30)! Used it in my 2005 Ford F-350 (the predecessor to the MP5) without any issues and I change the oil on the same frequency as the dino too. At any rate, time for a switch.

Well, scraped a bit of cash together and picked up some of my parts today... very excited to see my new piston rings (NPR) installed! LOL, first time and all... The machinist was kind enough to lend me a set of honing stones with instructions, so that is tomorrow's project. As well he lent me a piston ring compressor, also with instructions so I'm looking forward to getting these babies back in the appropriate holes as well.

I'm very grateful for all the reassembly tips and answers to my many questions, and I'm trying to feel a little guilty over asking so many... . One of the biggest mistakes I might have made had I not been so inquisitive was during reassembly. Apparently when reassembling the shims to the piston ends/caps it is imperative no oil get between the shim and piston ends/caps - only a bit of oil should go on the crank side of the shims. Apparently many engines have been ruined by oiling everything!

The before...




The bling...

That is correct. Never oil the backside of a bearing.