Bottom end? Need opinions

thaxman

Mazda5 the Anti-Van
So on Saturday, I changed out the trans mount. It was in 3 pieces. This is at just under 77K. The #3 passenger mount was done 20K ago.
Now on Monday, I got a call from her that the engine had bucked like it does sometimes, but it was much harder and afterward the was hearing a noise. I have driven it some and what I am getting is this: Upon startup, there is a bit of noise that seems to come behind the center firewall. If I still had the old mount on, I would not hear it.
When driving, when you drop the clutch to shift, you hear a scraping/rattling sound that really is only audible when shifting over 2500 rpm. It is louder the higher the rpms and sounds very metallic. It subsides as the rpms drop with the clutch in. It does not seem to do this if you leave it in gear and let off the throttle. I got on the passenger side and I actually couldn't really hear anything, or at least not compared to the drivers side.
Tonight I got under it and had my wife start it and I did not hear loud noises, but I thought that maybe I heard some looseness in the block.
So whaddya think? Am I throwing away this engine???
 
How does the carrier bearing look on the long cv axle underneath? Does it look discolored like it is getting hot? Also, is there any difference in difficulty pushing in the clutch pedal? I am going to assume it is a hydraulic slave cylinder unit like the one in my Fusion. There could be a bad slave cylinder/throw out bearing, or possibly broken/bent fingers on the clutch assembly. It would probably sound a little like bottom end failure. If you are having that kind of noise in the lower end of the engine, you would usually have some oil pressure issues and some metal when you drain your oil and filter next. I am not sure if it would throw an oil light or not though on our 5s. They don't really monitor oil pressure and levels as well as they used to.

If you suspect bottom end, drain the oil and look closely. If it has a spin on filter, cut it open and check it for metal flakes. You could even go one step further and have an oil analysis done. There would probably be high levels of copper in the oil if the lower end is going.
 
Actually, I think I'm looking at something in the pulleys. The rattle is getting louder and more frequent and I think I can isolate it to the front of the engine - outside the block. I can only hope its a tensioner not the crank pulley or one of the accessories.
 
That is even better still. The tensioner has a left hand threaded bolt and it is a fairly fragile casting, so be careful when you release the tension to remove the belt. Once it is off, spin and wiggle those pulleys and find the offending bearing. If it is in the A/C compressor, you will probably need to cut the belt off unless you can make a stretch belt removal tool. You will also want a tool to reinstall the stretch belt on the A/C.

Another thought I had is the VCT actuator. If something is goofing that up, there may be some timing glitches happening that would make strange noises under the timing cover.
 
Dealer has it and says the #1 mount on the front of the block is shot. Does anyone have the pn#? Tasca.com has pics for 6 mounts, and I can only identify 3 of them: the #3 upper right, #2 upper left and the rear mount. Have no idea where this front mount even sits. Have never seen it, even when replacing the thermostat. Anyway, this will be the 3rd bad mount in under 77K miles.
Between the paint, the lousy A/C and these mounts, I am growing ever more disappointed.
 
OK, well, I was told the #1, but specifically stated it was up front on the subframe behind the radiator. Anyway, don't worry about the PN. Getting the work done by the dealer right now. Paying $200 more than I should be since I am being charged for software as well.
 
software? for a motor mount? What did I miss?

No, software was to take care of the 06-07 engine stumble - the stumble that was so severe 2 weeks ago that it jacked the #1 mount.

So I got the hood up and there are - as I recollected - no mounts up front, between the block/tranny and the radiator area, so I guess that the #1 mount was in fact the mount btw the tranny and the subframe under the firewall. Please tell me that replacing it involves dropping the subframe or something really difficult so I don't feel like I wasted money having them do it.
 
Well, I've got an oil change coming up, so while I'm under there looking things over, I'll spend a minute contemplating where that extra $100 could have gone....
 
Purely the convenience of not having to sweat and swear at it yourself. No shame in that my friend. I had no idea the stumble was a known issue, mine does it once or twice a year and it scares hell out of me every time
 
^ X2. $100 really isn't much considering the luxury of someone doing it. At least they didn’t charge you $500 to replace the flangie… Btw, did all your problems go away?

Not sure if this is up your alley but for MT owners, it would have been a good opportunity to do the e-Focus mount instead ($50 for OE Ford mount + bolt) ;)
 
^ X2. $100 really isn't much considering the luxury of someone doing it. At least they didn’t charge you $500 to replace the flangie… Btw, did all your problems go away?

Not sure if this is up your alley but for MT owners, it would have been a good opportunity to do the e-Focus mount instead ($50 for OE Ford mount + bolt) ;)

I wanted to do the E Focus mount, but I did not know which mount they were talking about, or else I would have made them go across the street to Ford and get that one. Thanks for rubbing it in!
 
And yes, it is nice and smooth now. Its been since 50K miles, or 3 years ago since the vibes started.
 
I hate to ask, but are you for sure past busted catalytic shield welds and the usual suspects for metallic sounds?
 
I hate to ask, but are you for sure past busted catalytic shield welds and the usual suspects for metallic sounds?

If you saw my DP, you would know that the shield is producing no noise. ;) Once my crappy cardboard-and-aluminum-foil heat shield fell apart and started burning, I ripped it out and did the whole thing from just below the cat to the 2nd resonator in header tape. And yes, I did once fear that it would rust out, so I took a peek under it last fall and its all A-OK. Of course, this is Arizona. I would expect potentially different results nearly anywhere more than 500 miles from me.
 
So to update, I got a feedback request from Mazda via email. Considering the fact I shelled out $100 for the diagnosis (I accept that), $200 for the motor mount install ($20 aftermarket) and a hammer-in-the-nuts $100 for PCM software to stop the engine stutter that was so severe it broke said motor mount, I didn't have much to say that was positive. For posterity, I will post my comments here.
Unfortunately, I was afraid the Grinch reference would have been lost on the reader, so I edited it out.


I brought my car in because of a persistant rattling noise that I could not locate inside the engine bay. Because of its patterns, and the fact that it happened immediately after a violent
misfire inside the engine, I feared if could be the flywheel. Turned out to be a simple motor mount I could have done myself in 15 minutes with hand tools and a floor jack, yet I was billed
$70, which is probably 30 minutes, for a job which no doubt took 10 minutes including backing the car in and out and lifting it.
Secondly, this violent engine shutter occurred because a needed TSB was never performed on the car over the half-dozen times it was at this very service department over the course of a year
during the warranty period. The reason why is because the TSB wasn't VIN-specific, instead for ALL vehicles over a 2 year period which my car fell under. This engine stumble was so violent
that I thought it could have even thrown a rod, which other people with the MZR engine have reported having happened under various circumstances. Well, here we have a faulty PCM program
that came from the factory, was issued a TSB, was violent enough to stop the car while in motion, broke a motor mount, and is CLEARLY a defect. On top of it all, the fix is a piece of code
- something that is distributed to service departments with no material cost. Guess what? I was charged almost $100 for it! It is a serious problem that is a very big potential liability to
Mazda (what about if it happened at a train crossing, and cut the engine off? What if a train was coming? And what if the fix was free for the dealer? Oh wait - it is) and yet no one, not
the dealer, not Mazda NA, is willing to accept that something so serious should be passed along to the customer as the same no-cost solution it is for the dealer just because it got
overlooked because it was coded wrong back when the car was under warranty. I am done with Mazda vehicles. I am CERTAINLY not going back to [dealer] for things I can do elsewhere.

When I had my car in several times for warranty work (BOTH rear door locks, the A/C compressor, rear swaybar bushings, tailgate crack defect, and a few other items) [dealer] service
was very accomodating. This time, because it has been some time since I have been back, choosing to service the car myself, using mostly OE parts from a different Mazda parts supplier, and
aftermarket products when the OE stuff is garbage, like brake pads, shocks and struts, and the paper and fiberglass heatshield under the console that was compromised and was burning (!!), I
was treated like problems like failing clear coat that looks like peeling sunburn and a door handle that came off in my son's hand were my fault.

It may seem like I have listed a lot of problems that this car has, but I haven't even touched on them all. Some, like the special non-OE alignment specs I have to use to preserve the
tires, the broken turn stalk and window motors that seem to "forget" to work, and the switches and all the interior trim I have had to replace, have all been chocked up to the fact that no
car can be built bug-free. All in all, this car seems to be built no better than a 1975 Chevy Nova built on a Friday afternoon before a 3-day weekend by a team and their 24-pack of Pabst.
Mazda seems to refuse to acknowledge this, not even giving me a freebie on no-cost software that could one day save my family's lives. If somehow, someone reading this has even the
slightest bit of warmth inside a heart that is obviously 4 sizes too small from dangling presents over the snowy cliff of a peak suspiciously similar to the Matterhorn, I am available for
negotiation or consolation at .[/QUOTE]
 
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I admire the honesty and wit in your email. As someone who has experienced much of what you experienced, I admit I am frustrated as well. It seems all car companies are making crap and leaving consumers to sift through the garbage as they cram their crappy products down our throat. It's not all their fault though. The safety and emissions measures heaped on them cause great difficulty for them to engineer a reasonably good and inexpensive product. At the same time, I am frustrated beyond belief at some of the crap they all get away with. I think more people should speak up though about their experiences.

From a versatility standpoint, we enjoy our 5, but it has had some really annoying issues that I have dealt with. I keep eyeing the new Ford transit-connect wagons, but I am doubtful they are going to be much better. If the prices come down enough in a few years, maybe we'll give one a shot. Right now they seem like the closest thing to a 5.
 
As it is now with the Transit Connect wagons, Ford simply does not offer their long wheelbase seven passenger wagon with the Ecoboost engine. It's not even an option. That's a deal breaker for me.
 
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