#1289 - A story of rebirth

OThree.5

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2003.5 MSP #1289
Ok.. so I am past the introduction stage and all that, and I have some down time, so I suppose its time for another "build" thread.. or resurrection, or "saved" thread or whatever you wanna call it.

I will say however, that (and I suppose its due to the limited production of these cars) the MSP section of this site seems like its kind of dying.. I mean that with all due respect, but I feel like I am about 5 years late to the party..

That being said, I do want to document this car and what I am doing to it.

Day 1 - delivery





Couple of dings on the passenger side.. but this car has been in Charlotte, NC since 2003.. NO RUST. (maybe a tiny bit on the brake rotors.. but nothing regarding the body)


So I drove it for a couple of days just to listen and assess the car. (untouched with exception of the removal of the (horribly installed) HIDs. (no pics of that.. sorry)

So techincally NOW the car is stock (DAY 3)


The car is #1289 according to this site, although there is a piece of paper in the owners booklet.. well, hell I might as well take a pic..



It seems it depends on how you look at it.. this can either be #1289, or #3039.. and since 1289 is specific to the 2003.5's.. it would seem more accurate to refer to this car as 3039.. although this guy has 4000 written down for total MSPs.. when I was lead to believe it is 4500.. but I think this may be a bit trivial with the technicalities.. lol

The first thing I noticed is broken bolts


two in the exhaust cover and the other is the bottom right engine cover


Did someone steal my oil filler cap? That looks awfully "regular protege" to me


Cleaning


missing a bolt


broken bolt


and ANOTHER. THIS is a situation now (the top one is broken, the bottom one was just missing)


The exhaust leak is something I am going to have to live with for right now. I found an M8 1.25 bolt laying around and threw a bolt in that lower hole that wasn't broken

Moving on, I had gone to the autoparts store (before they closed) and got spark plug wires, and new plugs.. not pics, but that is done at this point. Started on motor mounts






I couldn't get to the transmission mount.. I am guessing you have to take the intake off? Or go through the passenger wheel well.. but it will get sone

Here is the engine, with new plugs, wires, valve cover cleaned, with a new gasket, and 3 of 4 motor mounts installed. (and it runs pretty good.. the exhaust leak is MUCH quieter with at least one of the bolts..) You can also see here I cleaned the battery and replaced both terminal connectors to the battery.

EXCEPT for 1 thing (I forgot the bracket thats holding the crankshaft position sensor.. the connector is just hanging there)



So I turn the car off, and unplug the CKS.. install the bracket and go to start the car..

Except I for got to plug this little s*** back in


SO now it won't start...

more to come in a few days..
 
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None of these things you are seemingly making a big deal over are hard to fix or even uncommon for these cars. The exhaust mani gets hot, bolts get stuck, become weak, and snap, the turbo mani hardware also backs out or breaks on just about every car, all of them relatively easy fixes. Your car has the stock oil cap, the msp didn't get a special one like the newer mazdaspeed models. The valve cover does look pretty crusty so maintenance was likely less than perfect but that is true for 99% of cars on the road. Thanks for saving this one, you actually have a really clean car that appears to have everything intact and in place which can be rare for these cars and you are well on your way to having something you will probably love like the rest of us do

FYI that rad looks like it could fail at any moment so I would save up for a new one, 'best' way to upgrade would be to install and FMIC and swap the a fullsize Mishimoto radiator since the stock short plastic rad is over $300 and unique to the MSP. Preventative maintenance can be the difference in how you view your car, most people 'hate' their cars because they wait for things to fail.
 
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Pulling broken bolts out of the head and exhaust manifold are easy jobs? (I need to come to Austin.. lol)

I actually have the FMIC ordered already. I will enjoy doing that job, since there is no electrics to mess with really..

I agree on the radiator.. it does look terrible. I don't trust it at all.

I agree about the preventative maintenance.. I am one of those people that finds the weak link in (whatever it is) and not only replace it with new, but upgrade it.. Thats how I ended up with a $500 96 Tercel with $600 worth of new suspension, 160,000 miles, no mechanical problems right now and a "RSURECTD" license plate.. lol

I guess I am just annoyed that most other people (especially professional mechanics) aren't like me.. Every mechanic I know owns a total piece of s***, and never works on it unless it breaks.. I don't get that. At. All..

The new CKS is currently sitting in my mailbox... in a few hours I will find out if I get to drive "Amanda" or if she is going to the shop, for a credit card swipe..

I will have a whole new group of pics to show the headlight restore, brake caliper painting (they're gonna be red.. sorry), re-3M'ing the ground effects, and that may even bleed over into the intercooler, blow off valve job.

From there, provided I don't need a new head, I will to the timing belt, water pump, the transmission mount, and the radiator..

Then I'm driving for a while and deciding what would be next.. (I suspect its gonna be lowering springs and new shocks/struts.)
 
I wouldnt spend too much time trying to fish the bolt out of the manifold. these manis crack and fail easily, so id expect to be replacing it before long if it isnt cracked already. mine too has two missing/broken off bolts in the head.. i just drove if for some years ignoreing it lol.

it shouldnt be too hard to get them out of the head though. maybe just grind some flat spots on them to get a small wrench on, good smack with a hammer to get them to turn a little bit. not much torque on head bolts at all and a small wrench was enough for mine.
 
Heard that.. I was planning on going the tubular SS route anyways.. but it would be nice to get those bolts out of the head. I found a second one.. This is the leftmost bottom if I am not mistaken. The one I already knew about broke off at exhaust manifold level.. so if I took the manifold off, there is a little meat to play with.. the one I found most recently is broken off below head level. so it would need to be drilled and tapped. I might order 2 M8 1.25 taps.. just to have ready for those 12mm bolts that are broken. I'll prolly buy a couple taps for 10mm as well. (If I even keep this car)

The sad (and angering) news is that I received the new CKS today.. Go to take the passenger tire off.. One of the lug nuts is seized. Put an impact gun on it.. it wont move. Now I cant even take my ******* tire off.

So far this car is a piece of dogs***.

I installed the CKS by squeezing around the wheel and through it... (the cars been unhooked from power for over 24 hrs..) Still no start..

No wonder people part these things out.. There are a bunch of regular piece of s*** proteges that desperately want to be fast, so the market is good for these cars parts.. second hand. So far they don't seem so hot for actual whole cars though.
 
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Unfortunate. You should prob sell it to someone who might have greater patience for it then. Msp's definitely aren't for everyone.

In the mean time, buy some penetrating lube, soak s*** down and get a big ass breaker bar for your wheel problem.
 
I mean.. its not like I expected a perfect 11 year old car.. But I don't think its too much to ask for to expect bolts to turn. I'm just pissed off because I can't seem to make forward progress.. its two steps back everytime. Right now its like being on a treadmill, but eventually I will make it succumb to my will.. this car isn't going anywhere.. one reason is I believe it has a decent shot at appreciating, the handling is fantastic, and it already looks cool from the factory.. But that doesn't mean I can't be pissed off at it when it wants to act like a ford mustang.
 
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As hornsfan said, pretty much every issue you've had so far is pretty normal for a used car (except maybe the CKP, not sure about that.) I've seen my share of seized wheel lugs in Mazdas and non-Mazdas and in my experience, it was usually because 1) the last guy cross threaded it when tightening it back in and/or 2) someone (usually a mechanic from like these jiffy-lube or similar places) used an impact driver to tighten the lug and tightened it too hard. Soak it in WD40, use a propane torch and then torque it out with an impact or a breaker bar (recommended) or just cut the lug of with an angle grinder.

I highly recommend you either replace the torque motor mounts ( the one at the center bottom and on the firewall) with polyurethane or get poly-inserts because they're a common failure point. If you have the turbo mani out, I'd also reinforce the point between the runners because it tends to crack there and while you're at it, you can replace the oil seals, coolant washers for the turbo and the wastegate (since you need to take the turbo out to get to the turbo mani anyway). Hell, while you're at it, you can even slap on a Pope Downpipe for added performance.

I can't say I disagree with you when you say that the MSP is a POS. Imo, the car was essentially "factory riced" as in Mazda took a Protege ES, slapped on a turbo and a body kit and added a Mazdaspeed Sticker (even the intercooler is from a 323 Diesel IIRC.) This is even more apparent due to the shoddy construction of the stock intercooler piping and the turbo manifold (cast iron, imo is cheap but a bad idea for high heat since it expands considerably when heated.) The engine was never really meant to be boosted stock and is identical to a stock Protege with the exception of larger cooling jackets. With that said, I also think the car has potential and tbh, I enjoy it way more now after five years (and $4000 for an engine rebuild with forged internals) mainly because of how well it handles and I don't have to baby it as much in fear of blowing the engine under boost. You yourself said that this car was neglected and the previous owner didn't know what he was doing so how can you then turn around and judge it to be a POS, especially when most of the problems you've encountered aren't particularly egregious or out of the ordinary?

Sorry for the long post lol but that's just my two cents.

As for the CKP/no start issue, are you getting any spark? Did you check if the CMP and the coolant temp sensors are ok? If not, I suggest you start there. Also, check the plugs for the CKP, CMP and the coolant temp because I've had the wires degrade due to high heat and vibration.
 
Come on man you are seriously that bent out of shape over a crossed lug nut? Anyone that has experience with working on cars can tell you how common a crossed or seized nut is. That's an easy fix and for you to immediately blame the car and call it a POS is ridiculous. Cars require patience, especially when they are over 10 years old, regardless of their make.
The bolts in the mani typically thread out easily unless they are cross threaded, they may require some heat but I have never had a broken stud or bolt that couldn't be removed by a machine shop.
I have owned three 3rd gen Proteges and put many thousands of miles on them. I can guarantee they are very reliable cars, just keep replacing the maintenance items like you are doing and you will have a solid car that is ready to be modded. You would be surprised how they run on 10lbs or more.


with the exception of larger cooling jackets.
Nope, exact same everything.

You yourself said that this car was neglected and the previous owner didn't know what he was doing so how can you then turn around and judge it to be a POS, especially when most of the problems you've encountered aren't particularly egregious or out of the ordinary?.
+1
 
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Don't apologize for the long post.. I welcome it. I appreciate all your feedback..
 
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The FS is one of the most basic modern engines ever. The most "advanced" system on the engine is the VTCS/VICS. No proprietary variable valve system or anything. The MSP ecu's logic is a bit unique, but that's not really anything you'd have to worry about dealing with, oh, everything else on the car. No multiplex chassis systems. It's simple. The BJ platform itself is an incredibly friendly vehicle to work on- suspension, steering, brakes, chassis electrical, engine management.

YOU BOUGHT AN 11-YEAR OLD TURBOCHARGED ECONOMY SEDAN WITH 150,000 MILES ON IT! It's not going to be perfect. If you wanted "perfect" find one of the few super-low mile cars that are still out there with 20-30k on the clock. Even then, time isn't on your side. Vehicles are not organic like us, they do not heal themselves.
 
You want to b**** about that MSP? LAWLZ!!!!

Granted, all of mine is self-inflicted, but I'm on my 5th engine, going on my 5th transmission, 4th turbo- s*** happens when you WOT it every day on 20+psi. And, as I said before, they're easy to repair and cheap, so it's not that big of a deal. I can R&R the engine with my eyes close, drunk and with a broken arm.
 
Just a question about your no start situation. It sounds like the same scenario I went through after installing my new engine. does your temperature gauge rise too hot on its own when you turn the ignition system on? If so it turned out to be the engine fuse in cabin.
 
No temp gauge issues at all.. I've never seen it pass the normal operating temperature.. start, not started or otherwise.

matter of fact the first day I owned it I drove it an hour home in 95 degree weather.. boosting on the highway..

I will get it fixed.. its being looked at now. I'll let you guys know what it ended up being.. but I really think this is a compounded problem.. If it were as easy as "plug it back in.. it should be fine" it would be running.. I am not retarded.
 
unfortunately, this thread is getting a little too dramalamma. people here are just trying to help, and if that fails, take it to a mazdaspeed certified dealer for service.

im not really seeing why it ran then stopped running when you unplugged that harness.. i guess first just make sure you actually plugged it back in correctly. make sure the connections are clean. Make sure the little orange plastic b**** inside it didnt get stuck and prevent it from making a connection. maybe get the multimeter out and test the sensor for resistance ect ect.
then make sure you cleared the car of all power as instructed already. negative battery harness removal, do whatever it takes to completely kill the car of power. pull fuses ect. CHECK your fuses as has been mentioned. make sure all relays are correct ect.

assuming that, do you smell gas? verify spark? make sure timing belt didn't die inexplicably ie compression test ect. if you **** the wheel bolt.. who cares.. buy a new one for $10 and hammer the b**** in. really not a big deal. the car isnt a peice of s***, but the paper work you describe doesnt tell a thing about how it was maintained really. just say s*** was "done" but im sure someone here who loves there car would do that many times different heh.
 
Fair enough.

I honestly didn't mean to cause drama on this forum. Its not like one day I said "I am gonna go start s*** with the MSP people" I just came for help at first and I wanted to document the things I am doing to this car. I suppose the fact that I've worked on cars that are much older without so many issues has "spoiled" me.

I AM pissed off at this car, so I get it.. you guys (love yours and) don't want to hear that.. but keep in mind WHY I am pissed at this car.. I bought it as BDAY present to myself, so I could have a cool project. But by project I don't mean I want to spend forever just trying to get it to start.. I mean a car I can tune.. FMICs.. BOV's.. TURBO back exhausts.. that stuff, not diagnosing a CRANK/NO START ISSUE for a week +, only to find that half the bolts I try to turn are already broken or about to.. or seized completely.

If anyone says they wouldn't be pissed, I call BS.. I get that a lot of people on here started with LESS, and overcome MORE... and that probably makes my gripes and complaints seem trivial to what some people have dealt with.. So I get it.. I really do. But I don't think most people buy a running car with expectations of ending up with an expensive lawn decoration three days later.

Don't judge me for not being "in love" with this car after my experience so far.. I haven't even had a chance to fall in love with it.

I take responsibility for the mistake I made.. but as everyone on here has said, it should be a really easy fix.. (just plug it back in and reset the computer) I have triple checked EVERYTHING I touched. Its just not starting back up like it should, which is unbelievably frustrating.. it has to be something else that failed.

I am typically not an angry person. In real life I am one of the easiest people to get along with.. let me get this fixed and back on track with my plans, and I am sure you guys will see that. I mean, gimmie a break here.. I got less than 100 miles out of it so far..
 
LOL.. I love how my thread got tagged with a thumbs down.. I guess my honesty isn't appreciated around here.. which is fine.. there aren't any Mazda clubs locally, and the only help I've got out of this site is "plug it back in, you'll be alright".. It wasn't alright.

LMFAO.

Weak.

You tagged it that way when you posted the thread, nobody changed it.

How can you magically expect us to know how to fix your car when all you told us was 'I unplugged this and now it won't start'. The only answer would be to plug it back in, not much to go on there considering we are 100s of miles away from the car.

It's very likely that one of the coils or wires you installed was bad out of the box, one of the plugs could be damaged or gapped wrong, one of the wires on the harness could have become damaged. There are a few things it could be and none of them are difficult things to check but when you flip s*** and get mad at the car and blame us for your problems how can you expect to get any results? Taking the car to a shop negates any of the 'satisfaction' you feel from finding the problem and repairing it yourself as well as preventing you from learning a little more about the car.
You may 'know' about cars but you need a lot more patience, if the Speed3s are so great go buy one. I outrun stock speed3s with ease in my mildly-modded protege and despite being able to afford one, I wouldn't buy one.


I bought an MSP for $800 with a blown motor, spent 5 months in my spare time finding a motor, swapping everything over onto it and it fired up the first try. But the alternator was bad, found another alternator and it was bad too, found another alternator then realized the turbo was bad. Replaced the turbo, replaced the BOV, and the car wouldn't build boost. Yes this was a frustrating ordeal but I fixed it and the car runs great. Still needs a tune as it isn't perfect but after 7 months I finally have a good running car. And even through all that I would not say the car is a 'POS' or a 'piece of dogs***', not one of those problems is out of the ordinary or unexpected for ANY car.
 
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I suppose I owe you an apology Hornsfan.. you were the first person to extend a helping hand.. the things I tried didn't work and with the circumstances I got irritated and its not your fault. Thank you for the help. If I had more time, I would just keep trying.. I probably would change out the coil packs next.. (I had already checked and regapped to .032 on the spark plugs)

My weak point as an amateur mechanic is electrical diagnosis.. I would honestly rather it no crank/no start than crank/no start.. Because no crank usually just means a dead battery or bad starter, or bad ground (in my experience). I am no good with a multimeter, and I am too lazy to try to learn it again. (the last time I played with one I almost electrocuted myself checking a household 120V circuit. (which probably wouldn't have killed me, but scared the s*** out of me as the multimeter almost caught on fire and burnt right through the wires..)

I realize that isn't going to happen in a 12V system.. but after that happened I haven't touched a multimeter. (and I don't have one anymore either)

Anyways.. I hope that you'll chalk up the past to newbie frustration and hopefully we can move forward because I am not getting rid of the car, despite hows its gone so far. Its a decent platform to build on and I plan on using it..

Mike
 
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