Engine Oil Rise

ALafya said:

Thanks for the update.
ECU reprogramming can resolve the issue for most people, I believe. This is the first I read of an official fix from Mazda. I don't think the numbers are that small, only that people did not drive enough miles and/or did not check their oil.
Re: dealerships having no knowledge: they are most likely in the dark about this and as such, their opinion should not be considered.
Could you share the Technical Bulletin number for this ECU fix?
From experience (not with Mazda), dealerships will claim ignorance of a fix, unless you give it to them in printed form.

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I am in Australia and have a CX5 diesel. It has had oil changes at 2800, 4000 and 7600 kms. At 4000ks service a Mazda Australia engineer was present and took and oil sample. He said it only had 1% of diesel in the sump oil. At the 7600k oil change I had the Mazda service people take a sample for me which I sent for testing to Caltex (Caltest). It came back with a 'stop' sign on the report and said that the diesel contamination was circa 7%.

I noticed an active regeneration of the DPF at 8200kms so took the car for a highway run of 300kms. It was a 93F day, the engine was at 2500 revs (5th gear) and the airconditioning was on. At the 'magical' 200kms I felt the active regeneration roughness, turned off the aircon and noticed the istop light was out. After 10 minutes or so the istop light came on again. My car is experiencing only active regenerations. High speed highway driving on a hot day did not passively regenerate the DPF at all. Otherwise it would not be in need of an active regen.


I have informed Mazda Australia of all of this. Also I asked them to clarify the 'severe' rating and its impact on the longevity of the engine. Bit of research revealed that possibly 10% of Australian diesels have the problem to a greater or lesser degree. Search of the internet showed me that this fault was known before they sold me my car. I have been sold a car with a known potential fault and is not fit for purpose. I can't take it to any parts of Australia outside of the range of Mazda servicing - I cancelled a holiday because of it.

Can anyone let me know if CX5s get passive regens. Asking Mazda Australia - no reply. Possibly I'll ask these questions on the Japanese websites - in Japanese.
Tks

Thanks for posting here change-man. I have been following your comments at Whirlpool as well.

Thanks change-man, indeed. I follow you too in whirlpool forums. And I trasncribe your experience in spanish forums.
I have sent already three letters to Mazda France asking direct about this issue and what was done in my ECU reprogrammation as told by the dealer. Mazda answered twice eluding the oil rising issue, only said the oil rise to the X is normal. Not a word about investigations or acepting the ECU modifcations.
My oil was changed at 7.800 Kms, X was wet. Now at 9.100 oil is 3-4 mm above full mark. I think it is rising again despite my carefull driving and attention paid not to cut regenrations.

Please keep up informed.

Hi people.
Official answer from Mazda Australia who contacted Mazda Japan. They wrote today saying that the 7% of diesel in the oil will not impact on the longevity of my engine and that a fix is immanent. I'll wait and see! Also Mazda said that the CX5 only uses active regenerations. I believe that around 10% of diesels are affected. I think Mazda may be concerned because the new 6 will use the same Diesel engine.
In Australia our new consumer laws have been implemented. That is, I was sold a car with a known potential fault and as such is not fit for purpose. I can't drive the car to where I want because of the oil issue.
However I have the attention of Mazda Australia - they are answering my questions in writing as soon as they can. My advice to you is to examine the laws of your country and write to them in those terms. Also the car has a four year warranty - and Mazda has said that if the bearings etc. fail outside the warranty they will favourably assist me.
I broke my cardinal rule for the first time in my life - I bought a newly released car.
I had posted my concerns on Mazda Japan Facebook - in Japanese - but politely.
I will now wait patiently for the fix - I lament that I had to write copious emails etc. and post on all of the websites. However it got action - otherwise I'll continue the crusade and increase my postings and Facebook activities .

change-man said:

Also the car has a four year warranty - and Mazda has said that if the bearings etc. fail outside the warranty they will favourably assist me.

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That's good to hear. Hope it all works out well.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/201...-5/fix-on-the-way-for-mazda-cx-5-diesel-33963

The good news is that Mazda acknowledges the problem with rising oil.
The bad news is that it claims it is only associated with short trips, which several owners have disproved.
The spokesman says a fix within "a couple of weeks". Seems unlikely to me. He also says the 6 does not have this issue, which seems somewhat questionable response, especially since a fix for the CX-5 is in "a couple of weeks", so how could have Mazda already fixed it for the 6 having the same engine?

ALafya said:

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/201...-5/fix-on-the-way-for-mazda-cx-5-diesel-33963

The good news is that Mazda acknowledges the problem with rising oil.
The bad news is that it claims it is only associated with short trips, which several owners have disproved.
The spokesman says a fix within "a couple of weeks". Seems unlikely to me. He also says the 6 does not have this issue, which seems somewhat questionable response, especially since a fix for the CX-5 is in "a couple of weeks", so how could have Mazda already fixed it for the 6 having the same engine?

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If Mazda Australia claims the oil rise is only associated with short trips then ipso facto, they admit the car is not fit for purpose. However im my case, my trips are not short as referred to by the senior Madza Australia executive. He doesn't sound like he has much of a technical grasp on things otherwise he would not said what he did and in the way he said it. You cannot transfer the 'blame' onto drivers even though it would be nice to do so. Mazda comments were made to alleviate concerns but there is conflicting logic in his statement. Ergo - 'there is no fault - diesel oil issue is because of short trips - but we will have a fix in two weeks'. Also they made a statement that the Mazda 6 diesel will not have the oil issue. Ipso facto, they admit the CX5 has a FAULT. I am sure that Mazda Japan will ensure that the FAULT is not there on the Mazda 6.

I know of a guy who travels from Wollongong to Sydney daily but his car needed an oil change at the 5K mark. Some of our CX5s have a fault. ECU programming issues are a FAULT. Reprogramming may fix that FAULT. Mazda cannot claim there is no FAULT.

If a car requires oil changes at 2800, 4000 and again at 7600K because of the short trips then it definitely is not fit for purpose - it doesn't matter whatever is the case. However Mazda claims it is not a fault and that only a couple of hundred cars are affected. However I got information from Mazda that only active regenerations are occurring. I must admit Mazda Australia is trying to answer my questions.

If there are no passive regens then the CX5 is relying on the extra diesel into the engine to burn off the DPF. If passive regens also occurred - in my case - I don't think I would see any active regens and the nasty diesel wouldn't end up in my sump. However the Caltest (Caltex test) results said that I had circa 350ml (7%) in my sump at 7600kms. Mazda has come back to me in writing and said that Mazda Japan said this level will not affect the longevity of my engine. Anyway the oil was just below the X mark so I assume it is within parameters. I have it in writing and I don't think the Madza is misrepresenting the facts.

There are two issues. One is that there is a fault and Mazda will fix it. This fault is manifesting itself around the world. The other issue is that Mazda knew of a potential fault and sold us cars that are not fit for purpose. I cancewlled a holiday to the centre of Australia because of this oil issue. Heaps of Internet traffic to the FAULT was there long before I ordered my car. The capability of my car was possibly misrepresented at point of sale etc. Cars are sill being sold and someone I know who bought a CX5 recently, wasn't told of the known potential fault.

Two issues - one the car and the other, possible misrepresentation of its capability (until the FAULT is fixed). I honestly believe that Mazda is trying but unfortunately, percieved clumsy spin to the general public to keep sales ticking over, only enrages us owners. Not a good customer strategy. A happy customer will tell another person - but an unhappy customer will tell four other people.

change-man you couldn't explain it better. Congratulations.
BTW I was at my dealer this morning, I went to order the new spare wheel kit and I found that the were lookig for me in orther to install the new dipstick. Yes.

They did. I have the new stick that looks exactly the same as the old, I have still to measure de distances and compare it with one of one friend of mine. They also changed the gasket where the dipstick seats, I think now there is some kind of elevated "neck". But...measured the oil level today with the new thing, the level has rose 6-7 mm. from the max. mark and my oil was changed only 1.200 Kms ago. A see no diference.
What is this fix expected in two-three weeks?. Why they do not say more?.

Morsa said:

change-man you couldn't explain it better. Congratulations.
BTW I was at my dealer this morning, I went to order the new spare wheel kit and I found that the were lookig for me in orther to install the new dipstick. Yes.

They did. I have the new stick that looks exactly the same as the old, I have still to measure de distances and compare it with one of one friend of mine. They also changed the gasket where the dipstick seats, I think now there is some kind of elevated "neck". But...measured the oil level today with the new thing, the level has rose 6-7 mm. from the max. mark and my oil was changed only 1.200 Kms ago. A see no diference.
What is this fix expected in two-three weeks?. Why they do not say more?.

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I do hope that dip-stick work wasn't the fix (scratch) I have the 150ps diesel on order -it's due in January.

I've been driving my 2007 Kia carens 2.0 Diesel with DPF from new. No rise on the dipstick reading at all with it. I always thought diesels use up oil, so in theory the 'oil level' may have dropped to be replaced with diesel fuel :-( However I don't think that is the case with my car as I don't do short trips, I cycle short distances and use my wife's Daihatsu for short car trips.

The shortest trip is about 4 miles once or twice a month with my 6 mile commute into work being the next shortest. It also gets a monthly blast down the motorway. My car has ALWAYS warmed up by the end of each journey.

No temp gauge on the Mazda is going to make that more difficult to monitor but as my driving pattern is not going to change, if the Mazda has problems it will be due to an inferior design compared to the kia and I'll be knocking on Mazda's door. Diesels with dpf's are not suitable for use on regular short trips, but what do they mean by SHORT and REGULAR?

I put the active versus the passive regen question to Mazda Australia. They wrote back to me that Mazda Japan said passive regens do not occur. I had tested this on a drive to Gundagai and back on a 34c degree day and in 5th gear at 2500 revs. I noticed an active regen at 8200k and did the drive. At the magical 200 ks while on that drive it did an active regen again. Hence my questions to Mazda.
On another matter the comments on Carsales.com.au by Mazda Australia' Nation 'Marketing Manager Mr Alastair Doak raises more issues than it addresses. He said he has done 15k kilometres without a problem. Pity he hadn't lent me his car so I didn't have to cancel a trip to Roma.
Mr Doak said it was because some cars (a couple of hundred?) only did short trips and the active regens did not work properly and burn the DPF off. What that says is that my car was delivered with a known potential fault. A search of archived Internet forums shows this issue existed before I purchased my car.
I have done 8500 ks since the middle of July. These are not short trips and in fact a long trip between 1100 and the oil change at 2800 filled up the oil to the X mark. At the 7600 oil change Caltest said that there was 350 ml of oil in the sump. I put this to Mazda Aust who asked Mazda Japan. They said that the amount was OK. It is all in writing. Also they said any issues with bearings etc. would be fixed under warranty (4 years) and favourably dealt with outside warranty.
Luke from the Mazda Australia Facebook site said in an answer to a disgruntled CX5 owner that it was not a major fault. Mazda Aust used the term 'fault'. The owner then said he was lodging a complaint with the ACCC.
I believe that Mazda Aust is sincere and that a fix will occur.

I ask Mazda Australia what will be different in the new Mazda 6 diesel so another 'couple of hundred' of 6s won't be like their sister CX5s? Since you made the statement it means you know - and it would let us suffering CX5 owners relax a little.

I know this isn't much but here it is anyway:

http://www.hotheadlines.com.au/redirect.php?h=Mazda_preparing_diesel_sports_cars&artid=1832574

"Reinforcing the point that Mazda is continuously improving its current diesel range, Kajiyama-san pointed to the small differences between the CX-5 and Mazda6 diesels, both of which seemingly use identical 2.2-litre Skyactiv-D engines. “What is the difference between Mazda CX-5 diesel and Mazda6 diesel? Engine noise is a big difference. Mazda6 is quieter. It is an improvement item, better insulation, and completely changed engine management system." (my emphasis)

The Mazda cx5 was deliberately engineered to allow some engine noise through to the cabin, as it can sound sporty.

Sounds to me like the 6 has more sound proofing for rep man, and probably higher gearing for cruising at high speed, that's what a rep requires in the uk.

A new engine map would also be a normal development.

I fear the 6 diesel will still have the oil rise, but disguised by a redesigned dip stick.

This is the picture of my new dipstick, changed on december the 5th.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/album.php?albumid=1460&attachmentid=199856

I have compared it with some colleagues in forums. Found no difference.
The total length from the top of yellow handle to the tip is 595 mm.
Without the yellow thing the metal stick is 538 mm long.
The distances between the mx and min marks and to the X looks the same too, exactly as this:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1979291&p=64#r1274
as you can check in the picture.

The gasket where the dipsticks seats, from pictures, looks the same too, and they have the same part number: KO444SHO2-10234
The oil level is at the same height with the new stick than it was with the old one, I measured just the day before.

So I have written to Mazda asking where is the difference as I can't find it.
Waiting a response.

I see an Add hole, a full hole and a Max mark? Probably the same dip-stick with the addition of the "Max" mark.

No. There is a min hole, a max hole and the infamous X mark. All the same and in the same place as in the older one, as I said. Can you imagine how many times I had look at this dipstick since the history of the oil begun!!??.

Morsa said:

Without the yellow thing the metal stick is 538 mm long.
The distances between the mx and min marks and to the X looks the same too, exactly as this:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1979291&p=64#r1274
as you can check in the picture.
.

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The Whirlpool post that you mention says that his dipstick's total length from the bottom of the 'lid' is 562mm. Are you able to reconcile that with your new dipstick?

Dipsticks et al.

Morsa said:

No. There is a min hole, a max hole and the infamous X mark. All the same and in the same place as in the older one, as I said. Can you imagine how many times I had look at this dipstick since the history of the oil begun!!??.

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Hi again. I think the dipstick fix is to prevent it touching the side of engine wall and giving a false reading. This may indeed address some people's concerns. The oil should be read about 10 minutes or more after the engine is stopped after a decent run. A Mazda Australia engineer showed me how to read the oil level ( because of a dipstick problem?) after the 4000k change. The oil is at the full level when hot and shrinks to below the full level when cold.

I think the reason you check the oil when hot is because diesel in the sump expands more than the oil - but really am not sure. However some cars are still filling up the sump to the X mark with diesel. In my case around 350mls of diesel in 3600ks. But Mazda Japan said this is Ok. Got this in writing!

Mazda Australia's National Marketing Manager was reported on CarSales Australia saying that he did 15k in a Cx5 without an issue. Then he was reported as saying it was because of short trips. I respectfully suggest that you cannot transfer the blame to owners. What it means that the car is not fit for purpose -QED.

I drove 620ks to Bendigo on Wednesday, parked the car and was driven around by a friend on Thursday then drove back to Canberra on Friday - a total of 1240ks. Had the car serviced before its scheduled time so it would have new oil. Guess what? The oil level rose!

Oh - I am still waiting on the fix so I can enjoy my retirement. I am developing a network of CX5 owners one of which had the fault long before I asked about and ordered my CX5. Mm - that is another issue.

JockC said:

The Whirlpool post that you mention says that his dipstick's total length from the bottom of the 'lid' is 562mm. Are you able to reconcile that with your new dipstick?

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I know that, but I think this data may be wrong. I made some friends from my forum in spanish take their measures of their original dipstick
http://www.clubmazdacx5.com/temas/v...to-lo-que-me-han-dicho.631/page-43#post-15470
later I did my checks on my new. The both total big lengths 595 and 538 are the same, as well as the distances between the marks.

I have not observed any difference in the stick shape, angle or other thing. The dipstick was not changed at my presence. The dealer told me later by phone that he doesn't know the difference. So I asked Mazda.

You may take your owns measurements and check this data.

Another thing, I checked my oil the day before the change, and just again with the new stick, had exactly the same oil level with both.
change-man, we are now experts in lookig the oil. That is not the case. I check it cold, 5 min, 20 min, and 30 min after have run the engine properly or after a trip. In my forum every few days a new owner reports the oil rise or reach the X.

One more thing, I have one letter from Mazda where they confirn that de mark "X" will be moved. I can't see this displacement in my new stick. It arrived at the dealer on november the 20th. Have you any news about other people whose dipstick have been changed?. Am I the only in the world?.

We are all aware of the declarations of Mr. Doak on december 4th and his "couple of weeks" to comunicate the fix to the "couple of hundred vehicles" afected by the oil rise. I'm afraid that with the cases reported in forums all over the world there are a little bit more than 200.
http://www.carsales.com.au/news/201...-5/fix-on-the-way-for-mazda-cx-5-diesel-33963
Time is running.

Morsa said:

One more thing, I have one letter from Mazda where they confirn that de mark "X" will be moved. .

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Thanks for that information. Are you able to share the exact words that they used or did they simply say it will be moved?