ITB's on my 1.6L

AzteCypher

AzteCypher

black ops modifications..
:
2001 Mazda Protege LX
Well, I decided to put ITB's on my Protege. I know a lot of people say the 1.6 isn't worth working on but it's a stout little engine and I like my car so... why not.

I bought some Haybusa ITBs which measure at 42mm.

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I'll be controlling them with this:

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Here's a couple of shots with them just sitting on my manifold.

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I'm going to see if I can mount the ITBs without separating them. This means that they wont' have a straight shot into the combustion chamber but I can live with that for now. I'm hoping I can cut the manifold at a point where the runners would match up pretty well with the location of the ITBs. I'll use silicone couplers to hold them in place for now.

I'm thinking of using a vacuum block to get vacuum back to the break booster and to any other sensors that may need vacuum. I'm also either going to use the IAC sensor that came with the ITBs or modify the Mazda one to fit. I do have a couple of questions though that I hope someone can help me with.

1) Once I install the Haltech, can I do away with the EGR valve/sensor?
2) I work on computers and automation equipment so I'm planning on installing the Haltech myself. Any tips or advice?
3) If I understand correctly the longer the runners the more torque I get before reaching a point of diminishing returns. Any advice on this?
4) Velocity stacks, how big is too big?

I'm planning on installing the Haltech first so I can learn how to tune it and then do more research before I start cutting up manifolds.

Thanks for looking!
 
1.With the Haltech you can delete the EGR.
2.Solder your connections, you may need some aftermarket sensors.
3.not sure
4. Just keep in mind that the IM is facing the rear, so you have to keep the ITBs short.

PM JeffMSP. He has a ITB setup on his BP swapped MSP.
 
I think Focus has this set up already. He had a flange made to fit the ITB's and the FSDE head.
 
@HKPRO5 - Thanks for the good info.

Guys, thanks for the good comments. I'll ping Jeff and Focus for their tips and advice.
 
You'll likely be TPS tuning which can be a little problematic (difficult to keep the idle tame, assumption that peak load occurs at 100% throttle position etc) - should be nice and angry though.

velocity stacks - Did a bunch of reading about these when I was considering IRTBs, the point of them is more to draw fuel back in which has been ejected due to reversion - the impact on performance would be marginal at best....go with what "fits", you are going to be tight on room back there to begin with so you will need to compromise.

do you plan on fabricating a plenum for this?
 
Thanks for the info LordWorm. I've read about TPS tuning but thought it was possible to tune using a MAP sensor provided the FMU will cooperate with it. As far as a plenum I hadn't planned on using one because I figured it would defeat the purpose of using ITB's which is to get each cylinder breathing independently. Or am I misunderstanding your question?
 
By using a plenum you can add a filter...which would be good for daily driving and what not. lol May sound psyco but you could run a turbo with that as well.. (seen it before) lol
 
tuning with MAP on ITBs is difficult as getting a consistent signal will be almost impossible.

plenum makes filtering easier, keeps noise to a minimum, means you can direct cold air to your throttles etc... it doesn't greatly impact the point of having ITBs, and if designed properly it may actually improve the output you get from them...

(explanatory edit: each cylinder is still "breathing" independently, from a smaller container - this can help insulate the charge from a hot engine bay, direct cold air into the cylinders from the wheel well, add a ram air effect, use Helmholtz resonance... it also greatly simplifies filtering, temperature reading and other bits. The main advantage of ITBs is passive cylinder filling - for outright maximum power a tuned length ram tunnel intake with single throttle would be better)
 
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I've thought about using one of those filter socks instead of a full on filter. As far as the noise... that's one of the things I liked about ITB's the racket that ensues when sucking down all that air!

As far as ventilation, I was planning on using this hood to provide a sort of ram-air effect.

imag0711y.jpg


Yes, it is functional.

I was reading up on Helmholtz resonance after I read it in one of your threads. Pretty interesting reading. Brought back memories of my calculus based physics at the university. It's something I wouldn't mind exploring in the future.
 
Well, work's been keeping me pretty busy, working on two large projects at once, but I do a lot of thinking while I'm working so I took a little time tonight to check out some of my ideas.

I had originally planned on cutting the manifold leaving about 4 inches of runner length to attach the ITBs to but when I was working on that today I noticed that there's more in the way of me attaching the ITBs at that point. In the picture below the yellow dotted line represents where I wanted to make the cut but the red circle highlights what would be in the way. I believe it's part of the EGR system. (Both manifolds provided by fellow forum member Speedracr79.)

This first manifold is off a 99 1.6L Protege.

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This second manifold is off a 2000 1.6L Protege. Notice there is more "crap" in the way of me cutting. Once again the "crap" is part of the EGR system.

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It looks like I'm going to have to cut real close to the base of the IM while trying to leave the injector holes intact. The red lines in the pictures below illustrate where I want to cut.

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I'm not sure if you can tell in this pic but the runner makes a quick upturn which necessitates the awkward cutting. This is to try and retain the stock injector mounting points while keeping the runners as straight as possible. (The red arrow indicated the direction of the upturn in the runner.)

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Awkward cutting...

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I've thought about using the stock ITB injector holes instead of the stock IM ones. This would simplify the mounting of the ITBs but I'm afraid that the injectors would be too far from the head. Any thoughts or input on this?
 
Ok i'll address your points...if i miss something give me a shout and I'll chime in again :)

1) Filters...yes socks will work... thats fine. But a nice big filters is a lot easier from a maintenance point of view
2) noise, - even with a plenum its going to sound savage/violent/insane. Its just about pacifying it enough to make it something you can live with day to day. It'll still scream its ass off though :)
3) heat - ventilation is nice, but actually shielding the charge from engine bay temps is worthwhile. Ventilation might make your overall engine bay temps lower, but its still going to be hotter than drawing the air in from outside of the car
4) ram with that bonnet - to make that work you'll need a plenum of sorts...at least something to channel the air where you want it to go.. the scoop would need to mate up with a box under the bonnet for the air to be channeled into the throttles, otherwise its not going to do a great amount (especially with the throttles facing back towards the firewall)
5) Yes, use the injector holes on the busa throttles. I imagine you could probably even use the busa injectors and rail to make this easier for you. Blank off the "stock" holes - you can always reuse these later for direct port n2o :) :) :)
6) resonance - helmholtz is fun to play with. Its all very theoretical and in practice close to impossible to get right given the space constraints - but in the NA game every bit helps. I'd be optomising distance from throttleblade to valve as best I could, and going with a plenum with a ram pipe - even if it only squeezes out another 5hp...i mean you've already gone this far.

7) Bonus point - thought about having a flange cut for you instead of hacking up the stock manifold? expensive but will probably end up looking cleaner and be easier to deal with....
 
Go to a company that can waterjet the flange to match the head and the ITB's. Maybe make it out of alum. or SS
 
@DeeAOne - Your 323 is Bad@$$!

I must admit that I feel more comfortable using actual air filters versus a sock. I have some spare sheet metal that I could use to make an air box to funnel the air from the hood into the ITBs. I'll cut some designs in cardboard and try some ideas out. I'll have to read up more on plenums for ITBs though to get a better idea.

With the help of a Dremel the Mazda injectors will work in the stock ITB injector locations. One of my big concerns with this is that there might be less fuel reaching the combustion chamber because of the greater distance away from them. My train of though it that some of the atomized fuel might cling to the runners instead of flowing into the chamber.

I think it would definitely be easier/nicer to get a custom flange cut to meet my needs but with a new baby on the way I have to keep my costs down for now. The two manifolds I'm working with are extra ones so I if end up screwing one up it wont' be too much of a loss except in time and effort.

Another thought I had this morning is possibly using another intake manifold from another Mazda (or different make entirely) that would better suit my needs, perhaps one from a 1.6L Miata.
 
AztecCypher, not sure of the specifics of whether this would work for you but LordWorm posted a calculator many moons ago (in the race to 100hp/litre thread) that has the maths for working out a tuned runner length. :)

What im not sure about is if the equation is based off feeding from plenum or the equations for tuned plenum and runner length are seperate :)
 
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