Timing belt replacement on 1.8 (2.0) Proteges

Hi gozz,

First thing I did when I heard that noise was to disengage the accessory belts and start it up: the noise still persisted. Thanks for those pump noise links. I'll put that in my book of things to remember.

The second link for the timing belt noise sounds exactly like the problem I'm having. Good thing I didn't put the tools away yet.

Thanks also for that service manual excerpt. I'll be using that today.

Nice pics of your ride! I'll have to upload a couple vehicle shots when I get the problem put to rest.

Btw, here's a cool free spell checker for Internet Explorer. You just highlight your text, right click and choose Check Spelling. I been using it for years every time I post:
http://www.iespell.com/

Let you know how it goes today/tomorrow.

Regards,
Brcobrem


Hello Brcobrem,

Thank you for the spell checker, I'll sure try and use it.
The problem that I have is I already have installed Croatian spell checker that is running all the time, so when I start typing in English, the darn thing goes on the fritz, and starts having a mind of it's own.... (deadhorse

If you'd like, I can upload the entire service manual, it can come quite handy from time to time... (40Mb)

Looking forward to read the outcome!!!

;)
 
Hi gozz (& slavrenz),

Yes, I would certainly like to have that shop manual. Can you put that up somewhere for me to download? Otherwise, I can provide you with my public email address (I'll make it non-harvestable) and you can use the sendbigfiles.com way of doing it.

Problem solved. It was that new tensioner !

Recall that I had used the hex key to turn it closkwise to get the spring on (the standard procedure). I also said I had to use the hex key to turn it counter clockwise about 1/8" to keep the spring from falling off the pin.

When I disassembled everything again on Saturday, I saw that the tensioner was in the same exact position that I left it in. Additionally, it had some rubber from the belt embedded on it. Here's a pic looking down from the top:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/tensioner^_with^_rubber^_from^_excessive^_tension.jpg
I put the hex key back in, and when I started to manually turn it another 1/8" counter clockwise, it "popped" by itself counter clockwise. Like it was stuck, and I unstuck it. Now I could see the spring coils were extended a little, as one would expect they should be. Here's a pic viewing from the top down from inside the engine compartment:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/tensioner^_with^_spring^_coils^_extended.jpg
If you zoom your browser to about 200% you will see the the spring directly underneith the roller (remember that the pic is upside down), with it's little black rubber cap, and a couple of the brass colorerd cad plated spring coils slightly extended. Just to make sure it was tensioning the belt properly now, I grabbed onto that roller with my had an put as much passure as I could to manually move it clockwise into the belt. Needless to say, it didn't move much clockwise at this point, because it was already tensioned enough.

Just to make sure the problem was resolved, I carefully used a little solvent on a cloth to remove that caked on rubber off the roller, then put the crank pulley back on, then put the spark plugs and valve cover back on, and started it up: whining noise gone at all rpm ranges. Hopefully obvious CAUTION: do not run the engine at very long with the water pump belt removed or you will overheat the engine and get a steam bath.

I made a couple other observations during the second disassembly:

1) The old belt was .99" wide. The new belt was 1.02" wide. The new belt was rubbing just slightly on the crank pulley washer facing the belt. Here's a pic where you can see the black rubber marks from the rubbing:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/crank^_pulley^_washer^_rubbed^_by^_belt.jpg
When I removed the bottom plastic cover, I noticed a very small fine line of belt dust on the cover form this rubbing. I can hazzard a guess that perhaps this is the source of the whining that you mentioned some people experience the first week with a new belt. In this pic, I've circled those dust particles in red:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/bottom^_cover^_with^_some^_belt^_dust.jpg

2) I previously mentioned that the crank pulley washer rubbed on the new bottom plastic cover. Here's a pic showing where it wore itself in (not to worry about this wearing in):
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/bottom^_cover^_with^_crank^_washer^_wear^_area.jpg
Here's a pic showing how the bottom cover is not exactly designed correctly to allow the washer to be perfectly centered (yes, I have the cover's locator pins in the block correctly before putting the bolts in) :
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/crank^_pulley^_washer^_wear^_in^_off^_center.jpg

I have some more pics and observations, but I need to go for today. Thank you and everyone for the help again and for putting up with me this long.

Regards,
Brcobrem
 
That makes sense. Like I said above, there's no way that you should have to worry about your tensioner spring being loose on that pin if the tensioner is working properly - that SOB was really stuck.

Now I hope that this stays fixed permanently. Personally, I would've returned the tensioner and gotten a new one, but I also have a second vehicle to drive, so...

Anyways, glad everything worked out for you.
 
Hurray!!!

I am glad you found the problem and managed to fix it before something worse happened.

I guess you have a lot more experience now, and I wish you loads of miles with the new belt on...

Oh, and yes, I'll upload the manual and PM you the link!
 
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Hi Guys,
Car stalled after timing belt change and it wont start. I drove the car for about 100 miles after I installed the new belt. Now the car is not starting and the ignition is not sparking.


What could be the issue? I didnt mess with ckp sensor during the disassembly..

Any pointer would be appreciated.


Thanks!
 
i'm pretty sure that you were off a tooth or two... but i can't explain you being able to drive it for a 100 miles before it stalled...
 
Hi Guys,
Car stalled after timing belt change and it wont start. I drove the car for about 100 miles after I installed the new belt. Now the car is not starting and the ignition is not sparking.


What could be the issue? I didnt mess with ckp sensor during the disassembly..

Any pointer would be appreciated.


Thanks!

You have no choice but to rip back into things and see if your belt is off by one or more teeth. Check that first and post back.

Did you crank the engine manually 3-4 times after installing the new belt to make sure everything was still lined up?
 
No matter how your belt decided to act, the cam sensor and crank sensor should definately trigger the ECU to give spark...

First check those two (cam and crank sensors)
 
Hi deepdezal,

You are probably in better hands with the experts (gozz and slavrenz), but for what it's worth . . .

In my 2/12/10 thread I had a link for the instructions that came with the timing belt. See:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive...structions.pdf
There you will notice the little toothed "wedge" that you are suppose to insert between the cam gears *before* you remove the belt. I didn't have that wedge either. When I put the belt back on, I didn't notice that the cam markers (that are supposed to aligned perfectly horizontal) had both moved downward a little bit due to pressure from the lifters. I was perplexed when I put the new belt on because I could not get the cam markers perfectly horizontal and the crank marker right on the mark at the same time. I then came up with the idea that you can see in in the "P.S." section at the bottom of my 2/8/10 thread. Here it is again for your convenience:

"P.S. I have some new pics and (hopefully) helpful comments about this job that I will be happy to post once I get over this last problem. In the interim, here's one about getting the timing marks aligned that (like myself) I see other people had problems with: The two slotted marks on the cams must be lined up perfectly horizontal (ie. not tilted down at all). I could not get the crank notch and these marks to align after tuning the crank four turns, until an hour later . . . I discovered that when you remove the belt, the cams are still under some tension from the lifters I suppose, and those alignment marks will move downward about one tooth when the belt comes off. You're under the vehicle trying to slide the belt over the tension arm so it will come easily off the crank gear, and you don't notice the cam marks have moved slightly. Following is a (after the fact) pic of my left hand and right hand pushing downward on each cam (not much force required). THE BELT SHOULD NOT BE ON AS SHOWN HERE! Have an assistant tap in a little block of wood to keep the cams sprung back in proper position once the wrenches are removed. AGAIN, DO NOT DO THIS WITH THE BELT ON THE CAMS! This pic was taken after I had put the belt back on correctly. And by all means, do not forget to tap out that piece of wood once the belt is back on the cams! Note that the cams can't spring back out of horizontal because they'd have to crush that piece of wood:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/cams^_spread^_and^_block^_of^_wood^_inserted.jpg
"

Regards,
Brcobrem
 
Slavrenz, Gozz and Brcobrem thanks for all your help! And documenting the how to do the timing belt job.

And Brcobrem great idea on locking cams in to place! Next time I will use this trick. I had my wife hold the belt on the exhaust cam, while I aligned the intake cam to install the belt.

The culprit was a "failed" spring. Maybe it was damaged by me during the install or a faulty manufactured spring. I used Dayco tensioner, roller and spring kit that I bought form Advanced auto parts.

As I said before. I drove the car for about 100 miles after installing the new belt and car was making the same power and everything was working smooth. I did rotate the crank confirming the timing was correct. Spring failed as I was going home from work. So I got the car towed to work because it was near by and I didnt have AAA coverage.

Next day I brought some tools to work and took off the value cover and saw their was tensioner on the timing belt and could not confirm the timing marks due to lack of light and me being lazy. Since there was tension on the belt, I thought the CKP sensor had failed and causing no ignition.

Last weekend I got the car towed home and took the belts off and that is when I discovered that exhaust cam had jumped by more then a few teeth and when I took the spring off, it was damaged. I got a new spring from Advance Auto parts and installed everything back and I have driven the car for about a 100 miles. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Next big thing that I have to do is install KYB struts on the car. I have a Air-Compress that I borrowed from my neighbor.

Thanks for all your help!

Deep
 

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I read your posts.. very helpful!

However, I have an interesting problem.. the car won't run. Here's the story..

We are second owners of the car.. a 2003 Protege 5, 2Liter, Automatic, AC, PS, etc. We do not know if the car has had the timing belt replaced previously... or cams.. but it all "appeared" to be "stock".

My son replaced the timing belt.. He is very competent, (even tho I taught him all he knows)...

We had been having a "idle problem".. as when my wife drove the car and would let off the throttle, the car would die.. (of course it NEVER failed for me or our 3 sons..).. and the idle was never real smooth.... and at 114k miles, we figured it was time to replace the belts.

Before removal of the "original" belt, he tied the camshaft pulleys with wireties. He then replaced the belt without moving any of the engine or cam pulleys.

We reassembled everything and the car would drive but once "warmed up" the car would idle very slow, rough and then die.

It is also throwing "random misfire".... Which I tracked to loose battery connections... and then found the battery connection was split and arcing... and so replaced the battery connectors.

Next we figured out it might be the "EGR" valve. So, I replaced that... and the car would idle without "dying", but ran very slow...and rough.

We figured there must be something messed up on the timing.

So, we disassembled and checked the timing...

Guess what...? The timing marks did not align as noted in your "Mazda Manual" posted above...

So now the problem... We aligned the cam pulleys as documented ... with the I on the Intake cam and E on the Exhaust pointing up... we then "fine" tuned them to align the "timing marks" horizontal to the head....

Now, the car won't start at all... doesn't pop at all... but we did not crank more than a couple seconds.

The problem may be that I did not align things properly.

So, do you think I should have the I and E letters aligned to each other?
 
the two little tick marks have to be facing each other and the crank shaft notch has to be facing up...at i'm pretty sure.
 
the two little tick marks have to be facing each other and the crank shaft notch has to be facing up...at i'm pretty sure.


THANKS!!!

Each pulley has 2 (two) "timing tick marks"... Neither Tic mark is under a letter I or E. Which should I use?

Is it possible the pulley has been installed improperly on the camshafts?

BTW.. "Wooster" is my middle name! (I know, it has nothing to do with this problem ... maybe.. =)
 
The i and e stamped on the cam gears face eachother
The exhaust cam is the one closest to the front of the car, so that cam has the e on it and next to that e is a notch, make that face the intake cam marked i until both those letters and notches are horizontal to eachother
 
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The i and e stamped on the cam gears face eachother
The exhaust cam is the one closest to the front of the car, so that cam has the e on it and next to that e is a notch, make that face the intake cam marked i until both those letters and notches are horizontal to eachother

Thanks, SIBalla!

The link doesn't work...
 
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