FS-DE Oil System

MP3racer

Authorized Vendor
01-02-09 Update: So you will not be required to read through all the posts the following is a synopsis:
The pricing is as follows:
$100 for blueprint service on the oil pump
$130 for external bypass valves (Sorry everyone, the company that makes the PRV had a slight price increase for 2009 so the price went from $125 to $130....I held them to the wall as much as possible and split the increase! I am able to keep the oil pump service at the 2008 price for now....)

If purchasing together I will include modifying the oil pump to work with an external bypass valve!
UPDATE 10-22-09 ANY ORDER IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS WILL RECEIVE A FREE HAT!!


You should be able to source your own sandwich plates, hoses, and bung for the MBSP or pan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MP3racer
The $100 covers:
1.receiving your pump
2.disassembling your pump
3.recording pre-coating specs
4.sending to Swain Tech
5.coating of parts at Swain Tech
6.receiving back from Swain Tech
7.recording post-coating specs
8.reassembly of your pump

Shipping cost back to you is determined by where you are located. You will receive with your pump a copy of the specs.
The current turn-around time is 3 weeks including the time at Swain Tech.

Oil pump part #:


Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFed
I do beleive it is this FS01-14-100N

Warning:


Quote:
Originally Posted by MP3racer
Please be advised!!!!!

Do not send dirty, greasy oil pumps for coating!!! (notcool)

From this time on if a pump is received that requires cleaning prior to disassembly there will be an additional $50 charge!!

Please understand, the coating company would not even accept a dirty pump much less try to coat it! When it comes to engine assembly the cleaner the parts and the surroundings the better the chance for long engine life!!


Thanks Crazee D !!!!!

Well due to the number of requests I see that the first information session will be on what we have learned about the FS-DE oiling system.

For those who are unaware, I wrote an article covering part of this subject in the latest Mazdasport Magazine. Here is a draft.

See below

As you probably already have determined, the oiling system in the FS-DE is marginally sufficient for a street car and desperately insufficient for a race car. One of the main problems is that with sustained rpms the placement of the pressure relief valve in the oil pump causes significant cavitation and further loss of oil pressure. Another major problem is the small size of the oil pan and the subsequent high likelyhood for the pick-up to become "uncovered". Finally, the last major problem is that the rods take their oil supply from the main bearings through pick-ups in the crank.

We have come up with a SYSTEM to help try to DEAL with these problems. Some of these problems are inherent in the design of the motor and would take high dollars to solve. I also stress a system, because simply adding our improved oil pump may help to a point but we have found the SYSTEM has given us much improved engine life (read bearing life)!

Of course, the heart of the sytem is our improved oil pump. Along with it is our externally adjustable oil pressure bypass, a gated increased volume oil pan, an engine block oil filter relocation adapter, and an external oil filter mount. As you can see, with this system you can adjust your oil pressure to the range you need it externally. This will allow you to compensate for several factors including the type and grade of oil you are using and the bearing clearance you are running (to a point).

Here is a pic of the system as installed on our race car.

mazdaspeedprotege017-1.jpg


Inside the box is the external oil pressure adjuster


For a diagram of the system look at #284 on page 19
 

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This is the start......fire away with your questions, opinions, information, etc (keep it clean and on topic please).

Let's see if we can get a good discussion going!!(cool)
 
I've got a few questions. So you'll be offering this system to us regular guys? I don't usually track my car but I do a lot of spirited mountains drives and after reading all the N/A guys blowing their motors this has really got me thinking. I already plan on going with a larger, baffled oil pan in the immediate future but like you said that only helps so much. It's a good thing you mentione the pressure drop over time because I've noticed this in my car but I always thought something was wrong with my engine. I'm also interested in the upgraded pump but I feel the adjustable pressure may be a bit much for street use. Out of sheer curiosity, what kind of pressures do you guys shoot for? Are you running a restrictor on your turbo oil feed line?
 
I've got a few questions. So you'll be offering this system to us regular guys? I don't usually track my car but I do a lot of spirited mountains drives and after reading all the N/A guys blowing their motors this has really got me thinking. I already plan on going with a larger, baffled oil pan in the immediate future but like you said that only helps so much. It's a good thing you mentione the pressure drop over time because I've noticed this in my car but I always thought something was wrong with my engine. I'm also interested in the upgraded pump but I feel the adjustable pressure may be a bit much for street use. Out of sheer curiosity, what kind of pressures do you guys shoot for? Are you running a restrictor on your turbo oil feed line?


Good start on the questions!!(2thumbs)

Yes, a larger baffled oil pan will definitely help but not solve the issue. The external oil pressure adjuster may seem like a lot for the street but it is one of the main components that helps cure some of the oil pressure drop. We have found that the OE oil pressure relief system (prevents pressure spikes (rlaugh)) is one of the main causes of this. The external oil pressure adjuster helps with this problem.

A good rule of thumb with oil pressures is 10 lbs. of oil pressure per 1000 rpm. So if you shoot for at top end of 6500 rpm then the motor should have at least 65 lbs. of oil pressure consistently at this redline.
 
Good start on the questions!!(2thumbs)

Yes, a larger baffled oil pan will definitely help but not solve the issue. The external oil pressure adjuster may seem like a lot for the street but it is one of the main components that helps cure some of the oil pressure drop. We have found that the OE oil pressure relief system (prevents pressure spikes (rlaugh)) is one of the main causes of this. The external oil pressure adjuster helps with this problem.

A good rule of thumb with oil pressures is 10 lbs. of oil pressure per 1000 rpm. So if you shoot for at top end of 6500 rpm then the motor should have at least 65 lbs. of oil pressure consistently at this redline.
So are you offering this as a "kit" per se? Now that you mention the desired pressures I'd actually consider getting the adjustment option - I definitely do not have 65 psi at 6500 RPM. According to my gauge (which is a tad off I think) I can only manage about 50 psi from 3000 RPM and up. But like you mentioned earlier this drops down to like 40 psi or lower after extended periods of driving. I'm still curious if you use an oil restrictor on you feed line. Can ball-bearing turbos take 65 psi of oil pressure?
 
So are you offering this as a "kit" per se? Now that you mention the desired pressures I'd actually consider getting the adjustment option - I definitely do not have 65 psi at 6500 RPM. According to my gauge (which is a tad off I think) I can only manage about 50 psi from 3000 RPM and up. But like you mentioned earlier this drops down to like 40 psi or lower after extended periods of driving. I'm still curious if you use an oil restrictor on you feed line. Can ball-bearing turbos take 65 psi of oil pressure?

hm i'm interested too. my pressure is like yours but at idle, it drops below 10 psi and i have to add about a quart of oil every 1000 miles.
 
So are you offering this as a "kit" per se? Now that you mention the desired pressures I'd actually consider getting the adjustment option - I definitely do not have 65 psi at 6500 RPM. According to my gauge (which is a tad off I think) I can only manage about 50 psi from 3000 RPM and up. But like you mentioned earlier this drops down to like 40 psi or lower after extended periods of driving. I'm still curious if you use an oil restrictor on you feed line. Can ball-bearing turbos take 65 psi of oil pressure?


Sorry...missed those questions....

We will most likely offer the various parts needed or direct you to where they can be obtained.

We use the OE oil supply line to the turbo and a -10 AN line attached to the OE oil drain from the turbo to a fitting on our oil pan. We do not use any restrictor inline as the OE supply line has already been designed to provide the correct pressure and compensate for higher engine pressures. Sure we see a bit of oil in the intercooler lines but the turbo likes a constant supply of oil as much as the engine does.

Yes, early on in the development process of our race car and the turbo FS-DE race motor I remember seeing the oil pressure fall off to 35 lbs at 6000 rpm at the tail end of a three hour race (wow). Can't say that motor lasted too long.....
 
hm i'm interested too. my pressure is like yours but at idle, it drops below 10 psi and i have to add about a quart of oil every 1000 miles.



Believe it or not the BMW 330 specs it's oil pressure at 7lbs at idle....not saying this is good though

Having to add a quart every 1000 miles is definitely a sign of a problem more likely from a leak or burning it due to poor ring seal or poor valve seals.....would recommend to have it checked
 
I want a kit just for the sake of having one. Last motor blew to some oil issues as the catalyst.
 
hm i'm interested too. my pressure is like yours but at idle, it drops below 10 psi and i have to add about a quart of oil every 1000 miles.
LOL, after long and/hard drives my oil pressure gauge is reading a big fat ZERO at idle! This is what makes me believe my gauge is dying because it used not always read this low.

But yeah, I'd definitely be down for a kit sometime down the road. I assume there's going to have to be a GI thread before any of these are made? I'd really like to see some bigger/better pics of the oil pan and pressure control though.
 
I have gone through two naturally aspirated motors. Its time to fix the problem I can't afford to keep replacing my motor every 20 months.
 
I want a kit just for the sake of having one. Last motor blew to some oil issues as the catalyst.
 
I am very inteested in this..How quickly can you get me this setup?
My motor is on the Stand now just waitng for the head to come back...Then it re-assembly time a Turbo piping fitment...It would be nice to have this item beforehand.

And I know of Swain-Tech..I did a bit of research on them while building my engine and even though didnt get the time to do it..I wanted to have my pistons done by them.
I almost wish I had now.
 
Awesome research and solutions. I'm very happy to read this. I had to put 3 motors in my Protege5 because of oil starvation. The last 1 came even though I had an Accusump installed (that motor did last longer than all the others). I've now got my FS motor mounted in a '94 Protege and it's getting ready to receive some more abuse. I tried very hard to stay on top of my oil levels and safeguard my motor. I'm relieved to see that there might have been an unseen culprit (oil pressure relief valve) that was finally the death of the 3rd motor.
 
I would like a little more info on how the external pressure relief valve would plumb into a N/A FS motor. If it's something I can install legally (damn you SCCA) I'll take it and an upgraded oil pump immediately.
 
I'll try to get some better pics of the oil pan and the external adjuster up in the next few days.

Basically, we use an oil filter relocation adapter at the block, oil line from it to the adjuster, then line from the adjuster to the remote oil filter and another line from the remote oil filter back to the relocation adapter at the block. There is another line that is plumbed from the external adjuster into the pan that is the new bypass.

Flow is most important here. You can use the cheap relocation adapters and remote oil filter housings but they will decrease the efficiency of the system.
If you need more detail to determine legality with SCCA let me know....
 
Mine is strictly for Street..Please PM me pricing so I can see if I am even interested in this before I put my engine back together.

Time is of the essence for me..and I know swain-tech will take about 10 days there and back.
LMK
 
Very interested in finding out the availability timeframes and costs for kit and components (a la carte).

Are any pieces going to be available soon?
 
I'll try to get some better pics of the oil pan and the external adjuster up in the next few days.

Basically, we use an oil filter relocation adapter at the block, oil line from it to the adjuster, then line from the adjuster to the remote oil filter and another line from the remote oil filter back to the relocation adapter at the block. There is another line that is plumbed from the external adjuster into the pan that is the new bypass.

Flow is most important here. You can use the cheap relocation adapters and remote oil filter housings but they will decrease the efficiency of the system.
If you need more detail to determine legality with SCCA let me know....
So I assume this utilizes as sandwich plate of some description? Do you guys also run an oil cooler, if so, is it air or water cooled? I'm curious because I want to run an oil cooler off a sandwich plate on the back of the block and I'm wondering if this might get in the way or vice versa. I also need two ports for oil temperature and oil pressure - man I'm running out of places to put things!
 
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