VTCS went out after 46k miles

R

Rosshole

:
'11 Legacy, '15 Forester
The dealership isn't even giving me a hard time about mods, they are going to fix it for me.

What a relief...

When I went into the dealership this morning I told the service writer what was wrong with it and he looked at me like I was retarded. later on he called me back and said that I was right and that it would be fixed this afternoon.
 
Last edited:
when the motor was cold, there was a wierd vibration coming for the motor. It wasn''t causing any problems yet, but it sounded like the motor was vibrating to pieces.

When the motor was warm, it would only happen in higher rpm's under heavy acceleration.

when I get back to the dealership after work, I will find out exactly what parts and other work they did to it.
 
And this is why I've got a spare IM that I'll be VTCS stripping, porting and polishing and LOCKTIGHTING the hell out of. I realyl should get on this. VERY fortunate your dealer's taking care of it!
 
Would you be willing to give the name of the dealership? We should start a list of dealerships that have fixed the VTCS issue and dealerships that have said no.
 
first, I would like to say that I am friends with the Mazda tech at the dealership and he is probably knows more about mazdas than anyone else that I know. He will be replacing the actuator for the valve first, and if that doesn't work he will go in and do everything else. This should get done on tuesday, after they get the part.

They are very cool there with working on modded Mazdas, they are even going to pick my car up for me from work and then drop it off at the end of the day.

If you ever have a mazda problem and are near Milwaukee, stop in at Hall Imports in Brookfield. They will hook you up.
 
zerorossi said:
first, I would like to say that I am friends with the Mazda tech at the dealership and he is probably knows more about mazdas than anyone else that I know. He will be replacing the actuator for the valve first, and if that doesn't work he will go in and do everything else. This should get done on tuesday, after they get the part.

They are very cool there with working on modded Mazdas, they are even going to pick my car up for me from work and then drop it off at the end of the day.

If you ever have a mazda problem and are near Milwaukee, stop in at Hall Imports in Brookfield. They will hook you up.
Click to expand...

Thats awesome to hear about a dealership that won't give a lot of guff about modds.

In Arizona we have SHOWCASE Mazda that treats us well. I'm glad you are getting it fixed under warranty. I am so out of warranty. 85 thousand miles on the car and 28 thousand on my second motor. This thread reminds I need to remove the VTCS on my spare motor. but its too cold in the garage right now.
 
It's VICS, not VTCS that the screws fall out of.
Read the last few pages of the sue mazda thread.

There is a TSB about the VTCS rattling when cold. You add a delay valve and re-flash the pcm.
 
they don't fall out, but they do restrict the engine...I think that's what he was getting at...
 
BlkZoomZoom said:
There is a TSB about the VTCS rattling when cold. You add a delay valve and re-flash the pcm.
Click to expand...


That is exactly what my tech told me he was going to do.

and it is a fairly quick job, he gets paid .8 for it, and .4 of that is for the pcm.
 
Last edited:
BlkZoomZoom said:
It's VICS, not VTCS that the screws fall out of.
Read the last few pages of the sue mazda thread.

There is a TSB about the VTCS rattling when cold. You add a delay valve and re-flash the pcm.
Click to expand...

Yep this is the TSB for the VTCS per Mazda

01-004/03 2001-2003 Protege, 2002-2003 Protege5 - RATTLING NOISE AT 1000-3000 RPM COLD ENGINE

Note: This bulletin contains revised sections. Please update your records accordingly.

UPDATE NOTE
  • This bulletin supersedes 01-004/03, issued 4/14/03. The step 14 of 2003 Protege & Protege5 Reprogramming Instructions has been updated.
APPLICABLE MODEL(S)/VINS

2001-2003 Protege (2.0L FS only)

2002-2003 Protege5

DESCRIPTION

Some customers may experience an engine rattle noise under light to moderate acceleration with engine coolant temperatures below 65 C (149 F) and engine RPMs between 1000 and 2900 RPM.

The noise is the result of the intentional swirl effect that is generated when the Variable Tumble Control System (VTCS) plates in the intake manifold are closed. Swirl accelerates the burn of the air/fuel mixture which reduces emissions when the engine is cold. The noise does not have a negative effect on the engine, and disappears as soon as coolant temperature reaches 65 C (149 F). There is a counter-measure to help reduce the noise in order to improve customer satisfaction.

Customers having this concern should have their vehicle repaired using one of the following procedures:

REPAIR PROCEDURE
  1. Verify customer concern.
  2. Check vehicle VIN range:

    01-02 Protege
    • From VIN JM1BJ22**1*400001 to JM1BJ22**2*551281, go to STEP 3
    • From VIN JM1BJ22**2*551282 to JM1BJ22**2*641000, go to STEP 4
    02 Protege5
    • From VIN JM1BJ24**2*440775 to JM1BJ24**2*551281, go to STEP 3
    • From VIN JM1BJ24**2*551282 to JM1BJ24**2*641000, go to STEP 4
    03 Protege / 03 Protege5
    • From VIN JM1BJ2***3*100001 to JM1BJ2***3*143365, go to STEP 4
  3. Replace the VTCS delay valve, then proceed to step 4.


  4. Program the PCM using WDS (Version B22 or later), verify the correct calibration from the table below:



    SPECIAL PROGRAMMING INSTRUCTIONS FOR:

    02 Protege & Protege5

    Due to current WDS B24.* software issues, to reprogram 2002 model year vehicles to the required calibration, you will need to select 2001 MY in the WDS "Select Vehicle Specification" screen.

    NOTE: If a 2002 vehicle was reprogrammed with the 2002 MY selected in the "Select Vehicle Specification" screen, it will not have the correct calibration and will need to be reprogrammed again using the special programming instructions noted above.



    03 Protege & Protege5

    For 2003 Protege & Protege5 with VIN RANGE: JM1BJ2***3*100001 to JM1BJ2***3*143365, proceed to 2003 Protege & Protege5 Reprogramming Instructions on the following pages.

    <TABLE border=2><TBODY><TR><TD>Year/Tranmssion





    </TD><TD>File Name





    </TD><TD>Tear Tag





    </TD><TD>New Calibration P/N





    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2001 MTX





    </TD><TD>DXAGBT0





    </TD><TD>TUN1





    </TD><TD>1L2U-AA





    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2001 ATX





    </TD><TD>DXAGAS0





    </TD><TD>AVO1





    </TD><TD>1L2U-BA





    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2001-2002 MTX





    </TD><TD>QKMABB0





    </TD><TD>XMU1





    </TD><TD>2ALU-EA





    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2002 MTX





    </TD><TD>QKMABB0





    </TD><TD>XMU2





    </TD><TD>2ALU-EA





    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2001-2002 ATX





    </TD><TD>QKAABA0





    </TD><TD>UID1





    </TD><TD>2ALU-FA





    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2002 ATX





    </TD><TD>QKAABA0





    </TD><TD>UID2





    </TD><TD>2ALU-FA





    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2002 ATX





    </TD><TD>QKBA7A0





    </TD><TD>5MAB





    </TD><TD>2ALU-GA





    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2003 MTX





    </TD><TD>QOAMFB0





    </TD><TD>5MGA





    </TD><TD>3ALU-JC





    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2003 ATX





    </TD><TD>QOAAGA0





    </TD><TD>5MHA





    </TD><TD>3ALU-KC





    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2003 ATX





    </TD><TD>QOABBC0





    </TD><TD>5MIA





    </TD><TD>3ALU-LC





    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


  5. Install revised PCM calibration sticker (9999-95-AMDC 97 available through MStore) in appropriate position (next to vehicle emissions label) with the calibration P/N provided in the table above.


  6. Verify repair.
PART(S) INFORMATION



<TABLE border=2><TBODY><TR><TD>Part Number





</TD><TD>Description





</TD><TD>Qty.





</TD><TD>Notes





</TD></TR><TR><TD>N23613980A





</TD><TD>Delay Valve





</TD><TD>1





</TD><TD>Application:



All 2001 Model Year

&

2002 model year built on and before November 5, 2001



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

WARRANTY INFORMATION

NOTE: This information applies to verified customer complaints on vehicles covered under normal warranty. Refer to the SRT microfiche for warranty term information.



Delay Valve Replacement and PCM Reprogram <TABLE border=2><TBODY><TR><TD>Warranty Type





</TD><TD>A





</TD></TR><TR><TD>Symptom Code





</TD><TD>82





</TD></TR><TR><TD>Damage Code





</TD><TD>9W





</TD></TR><TR><TD>Part Number Main Cause





</TD><TD>N236 13 980A





</TD></TR><TR><TD>Quantity





</TD><TD>1





</TD></TR><TR><TD>Operation Number / Labor Hours:





</TD><TD>XX444XR1 / 0.8





</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

PCM Reprogram <TABLE border=2><TBODY><TR><TD>Warranty Type





</TD><TD>A





</TD></TR><TR><TD>Symptom Code





</TD><TD>82





</TD></TR><TR><TD>Damage Code





</TD><TD>9W





</TD></TR><TR><TD>Part Number Main Cause





</TD><TD>****18881





</TD></TR><TR><TD>Quantity





</TD><TD>0





</TD></TR><TR><TD>Operation Number / Labor Hours:





</TD><TD>XX444XR2 / 0.8





</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

2003 Protege & Protege5 Reprogramming Instructions

VIN RANGE: JM1BJ2***3*100001 to JM1BJ2***3*143365

NOTE:
  • It is not necessary to remove any fuses or relays during PCM reprogramming when the WDS screen prompts you to do so. You may accidentally stop power to one of the PCM terminals and cause the PCM to be blanked or you may receive error messages during the WDS reprogramming procedure.
  • WDS shows the calibration part number after programming the PCM.
  • Please be aware that PCM calibration part numbers and file names listed in any Service Bulletin may change due to future releases of WDS software and additional revisions made to those calibrations for service related concerns. When reprogramming a PCM, WDS will always display the "latest" calibration P/N available for that vehicle. If any calibration has been revised/updated to contain new information for a new service concern/issue, it will also contain all previously released calibrations.
  • When performing this procedure, if the WDS PTU is not docked and connected to 115V-120V, we recommend that a battery charger be installed on the vehicle battery and turned ON to a maximum charge of no more than 20 AMPS to keep the vehicle battery up to capacity. If you exceed 20 AMPS it will damage the WDS PTU.
  1. Confirm that the vehicle is within the VIN range as noted above. NOTE: DO NOT Perform this procedure on vehicles out of this range.
  2. Connect WDS DLC cable to vehicle's DLC connector (lower portion of dash in front of driver).
  3. Press "16 PIN", "All except those below", and then press tick.
  4. Screen shows cable hookup. Turn ignition switch to ON. Press tick.
  5. When the progress bar begins to move in establishing communication to PCM screen, Disconnect the data link cable from the DLC connector.
  6. When screen shows "NO communication can be established with the PCM screen, would you like to retry", Select "NO ".
  7. Reconnect the data link cable to the DLC connector.
  8. Follow screen prompts when asked to turn ignition OFF and ON.
  9. Screen shows the WDS is unable to communicate, press tick.
  10. Select "ALL OTHERS" at the bottom of the select vehicle screen. Press tick.
  11. Screen shows to enable the WDS to identify the PCM. Press tick.
  12. Enter the current calibration number in the PCM part number section of the screen (see list below). Example: 3ALU - 12A650* - JA



    *: These digits are embedded in WDS screen.

    NOTE: You need to highlight the second box to enter the remaining two suffix digits.

    <TABLE border=2><TBODY><TR><TD>Vehicle

    </TD><TD>Current Calibration Number*

    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2003 MTX

    </TD><TD>3ALU-JA

    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2003 ATX (Without Sport shift)

    </TD><TD>3ALU-KA

    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2003 ATX (With Sport shift)

    </TD><TD>3ALU-LA

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    *: These are the only 2003 model year calibration numbers that require an updated calibration for this issue.
  13. Press tick.
  14. When vehicle specification screen appears, If the data shown is correct for the vehicle you're working on, press YES. If this data is incorrect, abort this process and recheck the entered calibration number.
  15. When the run engine management diagnostic screen appears, press tick.
  16. When screen shows VIN and R.O., press tick.
  17. Select "TOOL BOX", "Module Reprogramming ", then press tick.
  18. PLEASE WAIT screen appears.
  19. Select "Module Reprogramming", "PCM ", then press tick.
  20. When the "another calibration is available" screen appears confirm that the file name and new part number are correct by using the list below. <TABLE border=2><TBODY><TR><TD>Vehicle

    </TD><TD>File Name

    </TD><TD>Calibration Part Number

    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2003 MTX

    </TD><TD>Q0AMFB0

    </TD><TD>3ALU-JC

    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2003 ATX (Without Sport shift)

    </TD><TD>Q0AAGA0

    </TD><TD>3ALU-KC

    </TD></TR><TR><TD>2003 ATX (With Sport shift)

    </TD><TD>Q0ABBC0

    </TD><TD>3ALU-LC

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  21. If the above is correct, press YES.
  22. After reading PCM Reprogramming screen NOTE, press tick.
  23. When the TSB screen appears, press tick.
  24. Turn ignition OFF as indicated in the operator action screen appears, press tick.
  25. After PCM Reprogramming screen note appears NOTE: These actions are not necessary on the Proteg. Press tick.
  26. Select NO when the PAT screen appears.
  27. Turn ignition ON as indicated in the operator action screen.
  28. At this point the DOWN LOADING DATA screen appears and the reprogramming begins. CAUTION: The reprogramming process takes approximately 20 -25 minutes, during this time take actions to assure that the vehicle ignition system or WDS cables are not disturbed.
  29. Turn the ignition switch OFF when the operator action appears. Press tick.
  30. Turn the ignition switch ON when the operator action appears. Press tick.
  31. When operator action screen appears, press tick.
  32. Fill out the PCM reprogramming Label with data on this screen and place near the emission label on hood.
  33. Press tic and start the engine.
Click to expand...
 
Just to clarify here is the difference between VTCS & VICS

What is VICS?
VICS is "Variable Inertia Charging System" and is also refered to as "Variable Intake
Control System". In conventional intake manifolds, they are designed to have an air flow
compromise between low end and top end power. Because of this compromise, power
delivery from the engine is not optimum nor ideal. What some manufacturers (such as
Nissan and Mazda for example) have done is designed the intake manifold to have an
isolated runner system (there are many types of intake manifolds) to offer the best flow
characteristics. They didn't stop there. To squeeze as much power out of the engine, yet
allowing the vehicle to be streetable and mass producable, they added a secondary set
of intake runners into the manifold. With this dual runner system, there is the long runner
system for low to mid level RPM operation, and the short runner system for high RPMs.
On Mazda's dual runner intake systems (hereafter refered to as "VICS"), they designed
the long runners to be narrow and oval in shape to help promote air velocity at the lower
RPM ranges. As for the short runners, they are much larger and circular in shape to allow
for maximum flow capability at high RPM. There are butterfly shutter valves fitted over
the short runner and they are normally closed off. When engine speed is reached to a
predetermined rate by the ECU, a solenoid valve is opened and vacuum opens the
butterflies to allow for additional air flow into the engine. Hence the reason why the
system is "variable". It allows for optimum drivabilty and performance at most RPM
ranges. Note when this system is used with high boost forced induction systems, they
hinder performance rather than aid it because of the runner sizes. For high boost
applications, it is recommended that a large single (stage) isolated runner intake manifold
be used.


What is VTCS?
VTCS is "Variable Tumble Control System" or commonly refered to as swirl control
valves. This system only exists on the 3rd generation ULEV certified cars and is used
only on engine cold starts (under the following criteria: coolant temperature is less than
65C/149F). When active, the butterflies located at the end of the intake runners are
closed leaving a small notch aproximately 1/4 the size of the runners to allow for
turbulent air flow to reach the head and combustion chamber. The swirl caused by the
turbulent air aids the combustion process when the engine is still in its cold state "rich
fuel mixture" condition, therefore reducing cold start emissions. Hydrocarbon emissions
are significantly reduced due to this system. This system is also the cause of the infamous
cold start engine rattle that seem to happen between 2500-2800rpm on some 2.0l
engines. There is no known legal fix to this issue yet and Mazda is aware of the problem.
What is happening on the few 2.0l engines is normal and there is no need to worry. The
inclusion of this system also causes some performance restriction to the engine even when
the system is inactive.
 
rednecks_r_us said:
Thats awesome to hear about a dealership that won't give a lot of guff about modds.

In Arizona we have SHOWCASE Mazda that treats us well. I'm glad you are getting it fixed under warranty. I am so out of warranty. 85 thousand miles on the car and 28 thousand on my second motor. This thread reminds I need to remove the VTCS on my spare motor. but its too cold in the garage right now.
Click to expand...

COLD? IN ARIZONA? Please shut up :) The high here the past week has been like 10F... (boom07) Today it got up to a balmy 18F, I almost busted out the shorts and t-shirt!
 
khaosman said:
COLD? IN ARIZONA? Please shut up :) The high here the past week has been like 10F... (boom07) Today it got up to a balmy 18F, I almost busted out the shorts and t-shirt!
Click to expand...

I'm at home sick because its been between 0 - 8 degrees every morning. I was out in the sub freezing temps all last weekend.
 
rednecks_r_us said:
I'm at home sick because its been between 0 - 8 degrees every morning. I was out in the sub freezing temps all last weekend.
Click to expand...

Fine... that is cold :)
 
LOL I'm in northern AZ and my elevation ranges from 5 thousand to over 7 thousand feet above sea level. I even get snow. Just an hour north of me is one the best ski resorts west of the Mississippi,... Snowbowl.
 
Hall's Imports eh? I got one of their cards up in here madison, met the guy at the claddagh :)

Anything is better than Don Miller!
 
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