Grinding into 3rd?

[TheDoc]

Hey guys,

I've had my car for about six months now. Have about 6k miles on her. No mods that would effect the trans' behavior. My car occasionally grinds when shifting into third gear. This has happened about half a dozen times now and it is really concerning me.

This has always been the case when it happens:
Mid range shift usually around 3k rpms
Always from 2nd to 3rd gear
Clutch is 100% engaged
Shifter pulls out of second fine and about halfway into third it grinds
I believe, four out of the six times it has happened in the rain
The problem seems to come and go

I happen to remember a thread a couple of months back where someone mentioned grinding in third gear.

The first few times I was pretty convinced that I didn't have the clutch pressed all the way or.. something on the user error side. It's basically happened over three periods times and it's happened twice in a matter of 24 hours in each period.

For example: Friday, on way home from work in rush-hour traffic, I was driving, the car was warm (had been driving about an hour), and went to shift and it ground. The next day on my way to the store it did it again.

What I was at first thinking was operator error I'm beginning to think is a synchro. Does anyone have any ideas as to what it is? How to pitch this to Mazda for warranty? Happened to anyone else?

Let me know. Thanks!

 

[MS3077]

It's not an operator error don't worry about that. Some will say its "timing" but I personally think that's a crack of s*** because I've never had an issue with shifting like I've had with this car.

This seems to be a fairly common problem with this car. I think it's due to the car lifting during acceleration which causes the tranny cables to flex or something. The car has too much power / torque for its own good at times

The after-market rear engine motor mounts available help but don't completely eliminate the problem.

 

[hoth]

Does it pop back out of third while shifting? What does it exactly sound like?

My experience is usually user error due to bad shifting or improper shifting. This experience ranges from 240sx's to rx7's to protege's, civics, vw's and such. Where the shift sounds similar to a grind but isn't actually grinding at all.

A great example on the best way to ensure a smooth shift can be found at http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving/driving_shifting

 

[clos561]

take it to the dealer and duplicate...have them fix it...

 

[enganear]

My only advice would be to try Redline MT90 synthetic transmission oil. I had an occasional 1-2 shift crunch that this seems to have solved. The sales information for this oil specifically mentions Mazda synchronizers.....
-enganear

 

[TheDoc]

This seems to be a fairly common problem with this car. I think it's due to the car lifting during acceleration which causes the tranny cables to flex or something. The car has too much power / torque for its own good at times

The after-market rear engine motor mounts available help but don't completely eliminate the problem.

That seemed to be the concensus in this thread
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123696551

I was wondering if anyone has actually gone to the dealer and said you know.. "this is an issue, how does it get fixed?"

I plan on eventually purchasing a motor mount, but I can justify that by saying it makes conditions better under esteemed driving. I think that it's a little ridiculous to forego the tempations of modding for the sake of keeping the warranty intack if the best solution to the problem is an aftermarket part.

Does it pop back out of third while shifting? What does it exactly sound like?

It stays there grinding until I pull it out. I work in a heavy diesel shop, I know what grinding sounds like. Thanks for the link, though. I appreciate the response.

I've only had it occur under WOT once, I believe. Every other time has been under casual driving conditions which only leads me to believe more and more that it's a mechanical problem and not something I'm doing. I could be completely wrong, but I'd sure like to have the dealer prove that to me.

take it to the dealer and duplicate...have them fix it...

The problem is extremely intermittent, I'm concerned about being unable to duplicate it.

My only advice would be to try Redline MT90 synthetic transmission oil. I had an occasional 1-2 shift crunch that this seems to have solved. The sales information for this oil specifically mentions Mazda synchronizers.....
-enganear

I've considered the trans fluid change. I haven't changed it from when I bought the car. I wanted to see what other's experiences were and if anyone's addressed the problem with a dealership before I took money out of my own pocket. It's definitely on my to do list.

 

[Betelgeuse]

take it to the dealer and duplicate...have them fix it...

+1

Take it in and see if they can replicate it. Third gear can be hard to get into at WOT sometimes because of the engine rocking back and forth but that usually doesn't cause it to grind as well. And you're not at WOT when it happens. I see 4 possibilities (all my opinion):

1. timing issue (you might be shifting too quickly or letting out while trying to go into gear)

2. engine rocking excessively due to worn out mount.

3. problem with clutch assembly

4. problem with the tranny itself (bad synchro etc.)

I rarely ground gears even when the shifter was stock. But this car does have a lot of engine movement which has to be compensated for at times.

 

[clos561]

take it in anyway. tell them that occasionally u grind 3rd at low rpms and u dont know why. even if they dont find a problem now, its in THEIR records that u addressed the problem and in the future if it messes up u can say" i told you guys and you said nothing was wrong, now fix it" thats y i ALWAYS call and take my car in so they can log problems or noises i hear on my car....staying safe for future problems. after 12k the tranny is not under warranty since its manual and grinded gears, clutch wear etc. can be blamed on user, not car....(idhitit)

 

[MS3077]

There seems to be entirely way too many people having the same issue for this to simply be “driver error”
I've installed a SU rear motor, TWM short throw shifter / bushings and changed to full synthetic tranny fluid and the problem still shows its ugly head at times.

I agree with the above poster as well.

 

[Demi]

Its not operator error. Ive played with it a bit, and ive been able to replicate it readily. Everyone try this, sitting still with the clutch all the way in, quick shift back and forth between second and third. You will hear a clunk. Now try throwing further to the right before driving it into third. It doesnt happen. Think maybe that its the counter weight bending the linkage durning fast shifting? I know that is a heavy heavy weight. Happens into second from first too. Under heavy thottle the "clunk" becomes a grind, but i dont know enough about trannies to say why. I can say that its not timing or inexperience.

 

[Betelgeuse]

^^Sitting still is completely different to when the car is moving. Sitting still I can make it clunk all day - it doesn't mean anything. Like I said before, I don't grind gears and I'm not the only one. And I know my car isn't 'special' either. I'm not ruling out the possibility that some cars have issues though. Just want to also add that I'm a very aggressive driver - no grandma here. If anyone should experience this grinding it would be me. Stock mounts here as well.

 

[ericrapp]

no grind and

^^Sitting still is completely different to when the car is moving. Sitting still I can make it clunk all day - it doesn't mean anything. Like I said before, I don't grind gears and I'm not the only one. And I know my car isn't 'special' either. I'm not ruling out the possibility that some cars have issues though.

and Redline not in yet

 

[Betelgeuse]

and Redline not in yet

Stock fluid.

 

[clos561]

Its not operator error. Ive played with it a bit, and ive been able to replicate it readily. Everyone try this, sitting still with the clutch all the way in, quick shift back and forth between second and third. You will hear a clunk. Now try throwing further to the right before driving it into third. It doesnt happen. Think maybe that its the counter weight bending the linkage durning fast shifting? I know that is a heavy heavy weight. Happens into second from first too. Under heavy thottle the "clunk" becomes a grind, but i dont know enough about trannies to say why. I can say that its not timing or inexperience.

ok its nto your fault, after 12k "its ur fault"

 

[MS3077]

If it's "driver error" then why are so many people experiencing grinding and or miss shifts via 3rd gear? If it was truly "driver error" this would occur in any gear not just 3rd like most people are having problems with at times. This has me believe it's a mechanical flaw on Mazda's behalf. I mean sure if you baby it and don't shift "aggressively" or at WOT it will go in most times but there shouldn't be a problem period as long as you press the clutch in all the way and shift at the proper rpm.

One of the main reasons (like I mentioned before) is that the car lifts too much during acceleration - resulting in the motor / transmission to rock and move too much. I think some of this is due to the weight distribution. If you actually watch a MS3 from the sidelines do a fast run down the track or something you will see the back in squat down pretty damn low and the front end lift.

Motor mounts / synthetic fluids and shifter bushings help to an extent but they don’t totally eliminate the problem. We need more modification for this issue.

 

[Betelgeuse]

There just aren't enough people complaining to say it's a widespread problem. This is not like the 3rd gear issue with the SI that made the news. On the other forum there was a list of people who supposedly had this issue. After a couple months, most of them said the problem mysteriously went away. A couple adjusted their seats and solved it, others just learned to deal with it.

Also if this was a widespread mechanical defect I would be at the dealer demanding they fix it or replace it. The only problem one should have at WOT on the stock mounts is hitting the gate, not grinding.

Another thing that people seem to believe is that X fluid will magically solve all problems. A fluid will NOT solve a synchro problem. If they're worn, they're worn. The most a fluid might do a mask an issue for a while. IMO, only people in extreme cold weather should consider switching to something else.

 

[Super Unique]

I had this 2nd to 3rd grind on my test drive, that was a different car from the one I bought, and mine does it once in a while as well. I believe it has something to do with the linkage and how it responds to the engine/transaxle moving around under torque loads while shifting it "moves" along the front to back torque axis. Stiffer motor mounts may help. might not. I am thinking we need a redesigned shifter linkage to properly address this problem.

 

[4thStroke]

Switching to the CS insert helped me. I believe myself that its caused by the flex of all the powertrain components. Could be an inherent problem of the cable operation. Just speculating.

I didnt have the normal driving scratch, only when I would get agressive.

 

[clos561]

If it's "driver error" then why are so many people experiencing grinding and or miss shifts via 3rd gear? If it was truly "driver error" this would occur in any gear not just 3rd like most people are having problems with at times. This has me believe it's a mechanical flaw on Mazda's behalf. I mean sure if you baby it and don't shift "aggressively" or at WOT it will go in most times but there shouldn't be a problem period as long as you press the clutch in all the way and shift at the proper rpm.

One of the main reasons (like I mentioned before) is that the car lifts too much during acceleration - resulting in the motor / transmission to rock and move too much. I think some of this is due to the weight distribution. If you actually watch a MS3 from the sidelines do a fast run down the track or something you will see the back in squat down pretty damn low and the front end lift.

Motor mounts / synthetic fluids and shifter bushings help to an extent but they don’t totally eliminate the problem. We need more modification for this issue.

yea well it is the mount when u shift fast in high rpms, unfortunately, the dealer will tell you to blow them(smash)

 

[TheDoc]

Well, all speculation aside I've made the appointment with my dealer. It'll happen on the 19th. I basically put a laundry list together along with the first service for the car. We'll see how it goes. Trans is right at the top of the list so we'll see how it goes. I'll be sure to let everyone know.