WRX Wagon vs moded P5

[Missile_Man]

Turbo P5 (w/ like MAM or hiboost kit) Vs. WRX wagon

Once you spend about 5.5k on a P5 you can get pretty comperable HP out of both of them. But how would they match up head to head in reality?

A) Who would win flat out 1/4 mile

B) Better Car (value)

C) Better Car (mechanical)

Pleeze put answers to all of these in there. I say that get a P5 and mod it up a bit and youd have just as good a car as the WRX Wagon. Stiffer suspension, looks better (my op.), Little bit less of a cop magnet, and I've heard some bad things about the WRX wagon trannies blowing up sporadically.

[jaskel]

Personally just answering the first topic, i would take a guess that the subie' AWD system might help out a bit in a flat out sprint down the 1/4 but i am just guessing

[Replica]

5k would get a turbo on the car. dunno how well it'd run, hopefully that leaves enough room to tune the ems that comes with it. Probably run low 14's-high 13's. Last i read a WRX wagon ran mid 15's or so but im sure someone will post and say a WRX hits low 14's but ive NEVER seen one do it at the track...

[Autolykos]

Not necessarily low 14s, but i think they do usually bust into the mid-high 14's stock, or with minimal (ie, catback) modification. Personally i love the WRXs, if i could afford a wagon i'd have one, period. But i can't so i'll probably get a P5. I have a 2.5RS right now with the same AWD system as the wrx and it is very nice to have. Not only just in the snow but just in rain, or even on dry pavement sometimes. They don't get the greatest mileage though.

Subaru transmissions do leave something to be desired, but they're not to be feared or anything. Many have a difficult time going into 1st if you're going more than 5-10 mph, some of the bad ones you have to be nearly stopped or they'll grind going in. All the other gears are no problem at all. And if you mod the crap out of the engine and don't do anything to reinforce the transmission housing, it will flex a little which mis-aligns the gears and then kaboom, new gearset time. That doesn't happen unless you're putting out a LOT of power though, or if you drive like a retard. A lot of not-so-bright individuals have broken subaru transmissions by dropping the clutch at hi-revs when streetracing their buddy's civic and that is not a good idea in an awd car. Instead of spinning a wheel or two to relieve some of that torque like would happen in most car, you spin a few teeth off a gear somewhere. So just don't do that and you'll be fine.

Reliability on the scooby is outstanding as long as you don't do a LOT of modding. If you change a lot of things then yeah, reliability starts to go down if you don't spend the money to do them all correctly, but that is the case with any car.

I would say that a stock (or very mildly modified WRX) which you say will be about as fast as a heavily modified (turbo'd, whatever) P5 would be much less trouble and more reliable than the modded P5 as well as having the benefit of AWD. Also, if you go look up the wagon pictures threads on www.nasioc.com you'll find some pretty damn good looking wagons! The interiors are even getting pretty nice. Not sure if they're quite as nice as the mazda still, but getting there anyway.

[Natey]

Rishie smokes WRXs in his HiBoosted P5 all the time. A HiBoost kit costs under 4g's, including the Haltech.

IMHO, the WRX may be faster in the 1/4 because of the AWD launch, but the Protege 5 is so much better looking, and let's face the fact. Mazda>Subaru.
All you've gotta go is read Consumer Reports or the JD Powers report to see which car is better mechanically.

Have you seen the new STi? (blarf)

[mp5jeff]

5k would get a turbo on the car. dunno how well it'd run, hopefully that leaves enough room to tune the ems that comes with it. Probably run low 14's-high 13's. Last i read a WRX wagon ran mid 15's or so but im sure someone will post and say a WRX hits low 14's but ive NEVER seen one do it at the track...

a while ago when my brother had a wrx we both hit low 14s(i hit 14.3 he did 14.2, but i only ran it once) with it stock, not sure who is driving them around you but they suck ballsack and don't know how to launch an awd car obviously...you can't just rev it and drop the clutch which is probably what they are doing...and the wagon is just as fast and the sedan, MAYBE .1 second slower at the most with a good driver.

[Lord_Zath]

My best friend Dave has a WRX wagon. He wants to race my p5 to prove it could kick the p5's ass. I'm like "duh!". He's just pissed because I used to have a 2000 Trans Am and while he had a Honda CRV.

I drove the WRX and I honestly wasn't very impressed with it. Yeah it's got pickup, but gas mileage sucks AND it takes premium gas. Add to that the cost of insurance, and you're beating him every month where it really counts - the wallet.

I also didn't like the way it handled. It felt like a slushbox! WTF! Body rolled much more than the stock p5's and it felt like I was driving an SUV not a "rally car".

So trick him into some corners! But remember the most important thing - the car doesn't matter. It's the driver that counts!

LZ
Z

[billzebub]

I drove the WRX and I honestly wasn't very impressed with it. Yeah it's got pickup, but gas mileage sucks AND it takes premium gas. Add to that the cost of insurance, and you're beating him every month where it really counts - the wallet.

I also didn't like the way it handled. It felt like a slushbox! WTF! Body rolled much more than the stock p5's and it felt like I was driving an SUV not a "rally car".


If you high boost your P5, you'd better run premium as well. Turbos require premium. You pay to play. The WRX and the P5 are two entirely different cars.

And the WRX wagon is not a rally car...it's a wagon. The WRX sedan is a rally car. Different sway bars and body roll dynamics.

[bonesmp5]

well I know it varies from person to person and depending on the insurance company ------- But for me -- it would have been cheaper insurance for the Suby -- :)


Add to that the cost of insurance, and you're beating him every month where it really counts - the wallet.

[MazdaDryvr]

This is a very interesting thread for me. I had a 02 P5 (one year) then a 03 MSP (2 years). Now I have an 04 WRX sedan. I can tell you without a doubt that the WRX is the better car. You need to know how to drive it, it is a very different ride from the proteges. A turbo protege may be able to match it in some ways but it will never be a factory designed and proven vehicle as is the WRX. I loved my MSP and P5 but the more I drive the WRX the more I appreciate the Subaru engineering. :)

[Lord_Zath]

well I know it varies from person to person and depending on the insurance company ------- But for me -- it would have been cheaper insurance for the Suby -- :)

For me, a WRX wagon would cost about 2k a year. With the P5 I'm paying 1000.

And I understand turboed cars need premium fuel. I wasn't saying turbo the car ;-)

LZ
Z

[bonesmp5]

i know -- i was just saying that the wrx is cheaper than the 5 to insure -- in my case anyways -- thats all i was saying ---


and even tho i dont need it -- i still use premium on all my fill ups -- lol

[Captain KRM P5]

i've easily pulled on WRX wagons before in my p5

[Captain KRM P5]

And I understand turboed cars need premium fuel.

pretty much any forced induction or most high horsepower engine requires premium grade fuel.

[Natey]

... I loved my MSP and P5 but the more I drive the WRX the more I appreciate the Subaru engineering. :)

Get back to us on that in 60,000 miles.

[Rickman]

A) Who would win flat out 1/4 mile

B) Better Car (value)

C) Better Car (mechanical)


A) WRX would win.

B) I say the Mazda.

C) Again, I vote Mazda.

[MazdaDryvr]

Get back to us on that in 60,000 miles.

Actually that's exactly the reason I sold my MSP. It had 48000kms on it and I had way too many quality issues with the car. I'm all about Mazda, I've owned many but the add ons they did to the Protege to create the MSP were, IMO, unreliable. My P5 was good for the year and 20k I put on it but then again it is a factory designed car. :)

[Protege52003]

For me, a WRX wagon would cost about 2k a year. With the P5 I'm paying 1000.

i almost bought a coule WRX's last spring. my insurance would have went from 680/yr onthe P5 to 1150/yr on the 04 WRX. Even on an 02' it would have been 9XX/yr.

Pretty much it would have been a lot more than my 03' PR5 but the WRX is a much more risk than the Protege 5.....

My G/F hates the WRX....she likes the EVO so who knows. I would love to own an EVO........wait till I have my protege paid off!!!!

[Lord_Zath]

Did I mention my best friend's license has been suspended because he had too many speeding tickets? Thanks to his need for speed, he got 3 tickets in one day!

LZ
Z

[Replica]

a while ago when my brother had a wrx we both hit low 14s(i hit 14.3 he did 14.2, but i only ran it once) with it stock, not sure who is driving them around you but they suck ballsack and don't know how to launch an awd car obviously...you can't just rev it and drop the clutch which is probably what they are doing...and the wagon is just as fast and the sedan, MAYBE .1 second slower at the most with a good driver.
Hmm, that's pretty good. All the ones ive seen were in the 15's. It was fun to watch my friend's 01 Trans Am absolutely fuck WRX's during a launch at the track. Maybe people are scared of breaking the tranny to launch it right.

[mp5jeff]

actually, it's safer on the tranny if you know how to launch it, IE. slip the clutch at 5 grand, but it will wear the clutch out faster but id rather have a worn out clutch then broken tranny, pretty sure guys dumping it around 4500rpm are the ones breaking shit..

[Replica]

actually, it's safer on the tranny if you know how to launch it, IE. slip the clutch at 5 grand, but it will wear the clutch out faster but id rather have a worn out clutch then broken tranny, pretty sure guys dumping it around 4500rpm are the ones breaking shit..
My brother's GSX had to be revved to about 3-3500 to get a good launch, anything else spun all the tires.

[Slider]

Lots of generalities in this thread, and no mention that if you boost your P5 to much without building up the motor it will explode. Why are you comparing a stock car to a modded one? Put the same amount of money into the WRX as you did the P5 and see what happens.

[peepsalot]

Put the same amount of money into the WRX as you did the P5 and see what happens.

But the WRX already costs thousands more of the lot, so how about DON'T put any money into the wrx, and compare it to a heavily modded p5.

[Slider]

But the WRX already costs thousands more of the lot, so how about DON'T put any money into the wrx, and compare it to a heavily modded p5.

Lets compare a new Corvette to an MSP with thirty thousand dollars into it! Whhhooopeeeee! (birthday)

[mp5jeff]

i got an idea, let's not compare our cars to any other cars ever again, that would be saweet..

[Missile_Man]

But the WRX already costs thousands more of the lot, so how about DON'T put any money into the wrx, and compare it to a heavily modded p5.
Well at least you got my point.

Yeah I think im good on this. Case closed.

(locked) please respect the signage

[Slider]

i got an idea, let's not compare our cars to any other cars ever again, that would be saweet..

Yea, that is what I am saying. (hand) (post is dripping with sarcasm).

Why not compare the car to a car that costs about the same and has about the same amount of money in mods?

[billzebub]

If I drop $5K in my WRX can I compare it to a Porsche?

[Familia323]

worst thread ever...

[bonesmp5]

Maybe -- but where can you get a new Porsche for 30k ??

If I drop $5K in my WRX can I compare it to a Porsche?


this is my 2 cents on this thread ----
New P5 from 15K to 17K (in my area )
New WRX was around 22k to 24k --

so you take the P5 --add 5k for upgrades which now makes it to what a WRK new cost ---

this is the comparison that this thread was started for --- ai least i think anyways --- hehehe



******
New P5 ---------------16K
New Turbo -------------5k
Friends New WRK ----- 22k

The look on your friends face when he catches up to you better looking and faster P5 ------------------------------------------------PRICELESS (lol)

[jonlong]

P5 looks better than the WRX Wagon

[Lord_Zath]

P5 looks better than the WRX Wagon

(mswerd)

LZ
Z

[billzebub]

P5 looks better than the WRX Wagon

Really? I think it looks like a knock-off with the big foglights and all. Oh well.
Maybe I should have asked if I drop $25K on the WRX can I compare it to a porsche, but with that kind of scratch tied up in it, I'm sure I can compare it to whatever I like.

[Replica]

Everyone's forgetting the fundamentals of this arguement. The WRX is still STOCK and has a warranty compared to a strung out modded p5.

[Lord_Zath]

That's true, but I've heard of WRX's getting denied warranty due to "driving too hard".

LZ
Z

[billzebub]

Yeah...Subaru of America's warranty record is teh Sux0R. And their phrase is "spirited driving".

[Aricjm15]

I dunno about that, my dealer replaces all sorts of shit because subie drivers are dumb as shit, burnt clutches, wiper blades, headlight bulbs, "new cars need oil too?", "my smoke burnt a hole in the carpet, why is this shit so cheap", "my mirror just fell off (after I smashed it into a pole)"
it seems people also like to tow with their outbacks and legacy wagons, they destroy their transmissions all the time, my shop replaces two a week.
You guys should also see how many people destroy their cars by taking them off road, and by destroy I mean breaking A-arms and bending the subframe under the front of the car.

the worst I have seen from our mazda side is some dumb bitch complaning about the engine whine of her millenia S, for those of you that dont know, they are supercharged

[Missile_Man]

Maybe -- but where can you get a new Porsche for 30k ??



this is my 2 cents on this thread ----
New P5 from 15K to 17K (in my area )
New WRX was around 22k to 24k --

so you take the P5 --add 5k for upgrades which now makes it to what a WRK new cost ---

this is the comparison that this thread was started for --- ai least i think anyways --- hehehe



******
New P5 ---------------16K
New Turbo -------------5k
Friends New WRK ----- 22k

The look on your friends face when he catches up to you better looking and faster P5 ------------------------------------------------PRICELESS (lol)

Hey, this is what, the fourth guy who actually got my point.
OUT OF 20!!! (getout)

[jonlong]

For sure, I think the P5 looks way better than the WRX and for the cost of a WRX, you can turbo a P5 and have a faster (although only FWD) and much cleaner looking car. The WRX definitely looks like more of a station wagon with its styling, especially how the hatch sticks out funny.

My P5 was $16,500 OTD fully loaded (but w/ 5 spd). A complete HiBoost kit is $4000. That's $21,500 for a 200+ WHP badass hatchback w/ the best looking interior in its price range. Figure you get a new clutch, exhaust, and short throw and you're still at less than $23,000.

[Lord_Zath]

AWD conversion!

LZ
Z

[Familia323]

visual aspects are relative, WRX's have more potential for less money, but quick proteges are unique and fun to drive.

[Captain KRM P5]

AWD conversion!

LZ
Z

eek - got 20,000 bux :D:(?

[Lord_Zath]

Of course. I race for slips, yo!

LZ
Z

[bonesmp5]

You said it right there ---------- UNIQUE-------------
i think the Subys are kool but you cant replace the 5 --- thats why its fun :)

visual aspects are relative, WRX's have more potential for less money, but quick proteges are unique and fun to drive.

[ThrillRide]

the fact that this question was even asked in a P5 forum shows how little you want the WRX. Why would you come on a P5 forum and ask opinions about it and another car. :rolleyes: just gay man. so stupid and such a waist of time.

well i'll just add my .02 for fun, since the suby is getting no love and i guess i just like to be flamed......since i used to have and MSP and now have a WRX Wagon i can speak on the subject just a little.
first off the insurance on the wagon is going to be more than the p5 duh! the wagon is in a much higher class. however i actually pay less in insurance on the wagon than i did for the MSP...probably because the wagon and the AWD.

2nd AWD owns!! i don't need to say more about that.

the p5 does not have a better/tighter suspension than the wrx. that's just silly. my susp is stock and i'd be happy to take any p5 on in a challenge.

i don't know how much you all paid for your p5s out the door but pound for pound the wrx owns in the price dept. i paid 23k otd for a brand new 05 wagon in november of 04. short throw, compas and diming miror, arm rest ext, 6 disc changer, boost guage, and a few other things were all included. plus much nicer seats to boot.

i get far greater support from suby than i ever did from mazda. :flip: mazda!

as for unique...well they are both wagons so they cary some unique factor. however there are more modded p5s in the mags than there are wrx wagons.

don't get me wrong i think the p5 can be pimp. i loved the Pirana mobile. but just slaping a turbo on a p5 will not make you faster or better than a wrx. plus it takes very little to make a wrx faster.
i ran with a porsche 911 ( non turbo 325bhp) through 4th and was with him all the way. past 4th is another story(nervous)

well i just tossed all this in for fun and argument sake. i could go on with more but i'll leave it at that. the wrx wagon owns the p5. there that should do it (flame2)

peace!

[otmsp]

what ??.

[ThrillRide]

what ??.

what?? what??

[TX Speed Demon]

I was waiting for you to get on here matt.

I think it's time for you and Ahmad to race :)

I'm going to have to disagree with you about there being more modded P5s than WRX wagons. Maybe here in Dallas since you hang with the mazda crew, but I doubt nation wide it's even close.

back on topic:
A) Who would win flat out 1/4 mile
Turboed P5 with a proper set up could take a stock wrx wagon

B) Better Car (value)
We all know a stock car retains a higher value than even a lightly modded one, and you would have to do some heavy modding to get a P5 to beat a wrx in the 1/4 mile.

C) Better Car (mechanical)
I think the WRX would still be a better mechanical car becasue it is functioning within it's normal limits. For the P5 it'd be operating at +200% of it's original limitations after all the modifications. This just leads to increased wear and chance of damage. That's why we all say "You've got to pay to play."

I'd say the modded P5 would make a better show car and race car than a stock WRX wagon, but there's no way a daily driven one would come close in reliability.

Plus you'd be getting somewhat close to maxing out the P5's power potential just to reach the starting point of the WRX.

[Familia323]

just out of curiosity, what does a stock WRX(wagon/sedan) do in the 1/4 mile stock?

[TX Speed Demon]

^^ high 14s to mid 15s

[ThrillRide]

I was waiting for you to get on here matt.

I think it's time for you and Ahmad to race :)

I'm going to have to disagree with you about there being more modded P5s than WRX wagons. Maybe here in Dallas since you hang with the mazda crew, but I doubt nation wide it's even close.

back on topic:
A) Who would win flat out 1/4 mile
Turboed P5 with a proper set up could take a stock wrx wagon

B) Better Car (value)
We all know a stock car retains a higher value than even a lightly modded one, and you would have to do some heavy modding to get a P5 to beat a wrx in the 1/4 mile.

C) Better Car (mechanical)
I think the WRX would still be a better mechanical car becasue it is functioning within it's normal limits. For the P5 it'd be operating at +200% of it's original limitations after all the modifications. This just leads to increased wear and chance of damage. That's why we all say "You've got to pay to play."

I'd say the modded P5 would make a better show car and race car than a stock WRX wagon, but there's no way a daily driven one would come close in reliability.

Plus you'd be getting somewhat close to maxing out the P5's power potential just to reach the starting point of the WRX.



well you knew i had to Jason...

A) key word there is "proper setup"
B) wrx's hold better resale, wholesale, and trade in value than the p5 stock according to most car pricing sites (edmonds, kbb, nanda, black book, etc...)for stock....modded is a diff story. just depends on the car.
C)the wrx ecu has been touted as one of the best factory ecu's in the sport comact world. subaru has been given tons of credit from consumer reports and other such mags for it's engineering and reliability.

Jason, as for the comment about the p5 being more in the mags i feel is true. i have 3 issues of PAS mag and there are several p5s in it. not one wrx wagon. i have several IT mags and SS mags that have more p5s in them. I only have seen 3 wrx wagons being featured. the wrx wagon is just now catching on (which is a bummer...i wanted to stay unique)

I personally have seen several p5s in mags and shows. I have seen very few wrx wagons. had it not been for the WRB wagon that did the STI swap there would probably still not be many. but that motivated people to jump on the "wagon" get it hehe

[ThrillRide]

^^ high 14s to mid 15s

low to mid 14's http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=703272

[grindMARC]

Get back to us on that in 60,000 miles.

I'll save him the trouble. Got 67k miles on a 02 P5 and an 02 WRX.
My wife normally drives the P5, but its had a misfire problem lately so I've been driving it alot.

The P5 is much more nimble out of the box. Especially at low speeds. But there is alot more body roll in a P5 than a 02 WRX. A couple of months ago I put MSP struts and springs on the P5 and its made a world of difference in the handling.

Brakes on the P5 are far and away better. Our P5 does not have anitlocks, but the pedal feel is SOOOO much better than the spongy WRX. Both cards have SS lines, Axxis Ultimate pads. Antilocks on the WRX are horrible. They engage if you hit any kind of bump under braking. Seriously, a manhole cover will trigger the antilocks. Makes for some soiled shorts every so often!

Aside from a new clutch, flywheel and throwout bearing at 35k on the WRX (under warranty) and the P5's misfire problem, both cars have held up really well. No repairs outside the normal stuff. No odd rattling noises or anything (/knock on wood).

BTW, I cry foul on this comparison simply due to the idea that you'd be giving up at least some of the Mazda warranty with the mods it would take to make it WRX-quick. A better comparison might be the MSP against the WRX.

I drove CusomMSPs ride once. I hated my WRX for about a month afterwards!

[otmsp]

wrx wagon is ugly next to a p5 .It looks like a toolbox.Thats what! (smash)