A note about vendor bashing.

[t3ase]

I just want to take some time and make everyone realize what a *SMALL* aftermarket following we have. We've already lost a few vendors due to customer's (member's) behavior and I'm not going to see another one go down.

While I do not mind you voicing your opinions or rightfully calling out a vendor due to lack of followthrough or apparent problems, unneeded bashing will not sit well.

Remember, we do NOT have Hondas. We do NOT have Nissans. We do NOT have Dodges. Our aftermarket support is pretty much what you see on these forums, period. Your behavior towards these vendors is *very* noticable because of it.

This thread has originated due to several stories from not only the few obvious vendors who have "closed" sales to MSPers but also current vendors who I've talked to. The stories are amazingly annoying to hear about.

We are customers, they are vendors. It's like that for an obvious reason. If you knew more than those vendors, *you* would be in business here.

Thanks.

[KzA]

very good thread with very good points...

I think everyone really needs to appreciate the aftermarket that we have...In all honesty, this community played an ENORMOUS role in developing this aftermarket, and in the same way we can do play a large role in destroying it..Just something to think about..

Appreciate what these companies are doing for you, regardless if you think their product needs slight changes..Its better than no products at all, and if you are a member of this forum PRE-MSP (aka MP3, Sedan and P5 guys...) then you know what I am talking about having no aftermarket...No more than 2 years back we were struggling..

[NRRfrogmanP5]

i agree 2 w00 w00's for the thread

[t3ase]

very good thread with very good points...

I think everyone really needs to appreciate the aftermarket that we have...In all honesty, this community played an ENORMOUS role in developing this aftermarket, and in the same way we can do play a large role in destroying it..Just something to think about..

Appreciate what these companies are doing for you, regardless if you think their product needs slight changes..Its better than no products at all, and if you are a member of this forum PRE-MSP (aka MP3, Sedan and P5 guys...) then you know what I am talking about having no aftermarket...No more than 2 years back we were struggling..
Yup. This thread could have been in the general off topic area but the stories I've heard are mainly about MSP owners who are, disappointingly, coming off as being extremely immature and needy. The "PRE-MSP" guys, to take your wording, APPRECIATE the support, as they were without it as KzA mentions.

Depending on when you joined, you may have been here at that time or you may have joined as new products are being offered every week. Which ever it is for you, take time to appreciate the work and support.

[FSDET]

t3ase can u plz give examples of vendors(and please dont include ES)that we drove away.

[Captain KRM P5]

t3ase can u plz give examples of vendors(and please dont include ES)that we drove away.

Protege Garage

[t3ase]

I'll only say JoeP, as he has no problem voicing his opinion. If the other vendors care to share their "war stories", that's their place, not mine.

I'm not saying "ITS YOUR FAULT" or anything like that and I really don't feel as though I should have to *point out* vendors. The behavior towards vendors on these boards is apparent if you only read.

[t3ase]

Protege Garage
I was wondering if you'd chime in. ;)

[Captain KRM P5]

I was wondering if you'd chime in. ;)

of course. in your initial post you took the words out of my mouth.

[Dexter]

I made a post about this in a different thread which i cannot remember now. Damnit.

edit: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1461035&postcount=55

[t3ase]

For those that won't click a link to read:


I will just say it must be absolute hell to be a vendor on this board. Everyone bitches at the smallest thing and talks shit about the vendors on here so easily. Most of these vendors work hard to keep a good name and they truely care about how they are viewed, but all of it can go down the drain because one baby has to throw a fit. IMHO, no AV on this board designs shitty products on purpose and just puts them out there. Everyones got integrity and stands behind thier respective products. Maybe im just naieve like that, i guess. All of this vendor bashing gets me down, its so stupid. The MAM midpipe may require you to use the Kartboy hangers because it needs more support. And what do people do? bitch that its a problem and MAM should fix it. That just makes me really sad and i feel bad for Beau, or anyone, who has to deal with shit like that. The guy fucking hand made you that pipe and you just shit all over it because you dont want to buy some hangers. I dont know where this rant is going/came from, i just saw a mention about vendor bashing, and i figured i would chime in because...i have nothing better to do. Vendor bashing should not be tolerated unless they are 2loww. Vendors might hear tons of praise, but if they have any pride in thier work, just that one baby will ruin thier day. at least i know it did for me. The guy that cant wait 2 more days for his exhaust so he files a paypal claim that we stole his money. Or the guy that sends a lame ass canadian check and we lose 300 dollars.

I hope someone read all this.

[FSDET]

of course. in your initial post you took the words out of my mouth.
i didnt know ppl gave u shit about ur products ?? ive never seen any negative posts about PG

[t3ase]

i didnt know ppl gave u shit about ur products ?? ive never seen any negative posts about PG
Let's look past the obvious forum a second and think about email, phone and personal support.

(edited; i stole ken's point.)

[Captain KRM P5]

i'd like to make the point that many of the vendors here do not make thier bread and butter on this forum. not by a long shot do we put food on thier tables. they have plenty of other business elsewhere that make it worth thier while. knowing that should make this forum plenty more thankful and respectful towards the people that do contribute the time, effort, product and knowledge that they do all while continually taking it in the tail from people. they could easily walk away from this community and not be hurt financially by it.

side note - if i recall right, Flyin' Protege/Flyin' Miata was also turned off by the attitudes here but that was some time ago now

[t3ase]

side note - if i recall right, Flyin' Protege/Flyin' Miata was also turned off by the attitudes here but that was some time ago now
I was wondering why they kinda faded their FP area out.

[FSDET]

I was wondering why they kinda faded their FP area out.
i thought its cuz they were so busy with miatas.

[t3ase]

i thought its cuz they were so busy with miatas.
There's always more to a story. With the examples I've been given, I'd be somewhat willing to bet the attitude issue played a large factor in it.

[t3ase]

Also, I don't mean to be an ass so don't start complaining about moderators voicing their opinions when they shouldn't. *cough*

However, this is a very serious issue that needs to come to a stop.

[Captain KRM P5]

I was wondering why they kinda faded their FP area out.

but it also references what you and i are saying - they shut the whole thing down with little fanfare or attention and let me tell you, when I talked to them they really didn't give a shit about how anyone felt about it because from a business standpoint the protege was pointless. They were able to walk away from it and continue to make gobs of cash off thier miata operation and not bat an eye. the people that bought Spool Turbo did the same thing. MPNick takes a TON of abuse from people here and he could easily drop this forum like a rock and make plenty of money from the shop he has had long before this forum ever existed. Mental Addiction was around long before the protege and will continue to be around long after.

Anyone of those places could pack up, leave and survive just fine without us. I think people here need to wake up and realize *gasp* they do not, by and large, pay these people's bills.

[FSDET]

speaking of moderators i think u guys havent been active for a long time.
and what happened to evilsrt is he still a moderator on a mazda forum ? sorry for the jack

[Captain KRM P5]

i thought its cuz they were so busy with miatas.

they were very busy with the protege as well but its a matter of economics in the end. they did not feel a real positive vibe from the protege community, protegeclub either to be fair. had the attitude been a little more welcoming, they would have stuck it out i think. they had a good deal of projects and ideas in the works for the protege that we'll never see now

[KpaBap]

This could also be resolved if there was any moderation going on here and the bashing was stopped long before 1000+ people saw the thread. A thread delete and a 5-day ban for unfounded bitching and moaning and people will grow up. Who cares if it pisses off some members, at least it maintains what little credibility the vendors have with the picky whiners.

[t3ase]

speaking of moderators i think u guys havent been active for a long time.
and what happened to evilsrt is he still a moderator on a mazda forum ? sorry for the jack
eh, my situation is known to all other moderators and I can't speak for jersey. Hell, even the "subforums" issue can show somewhat how a few of the people act. *shrug*

[t3ase]

This could also be resolved if there was any moderation going on here and the bashing was stopped long before 1000+ people saw the thread. A thread delete and a 5-day ban for unfounded bitching and moaning and people will grow up. Who cares if it pisses off some members, at least it maintains what little credibility the vendors have with the picky whiners.
You'll have to take that up with Antoine. Mods are *very* limited in what we can do as far as closing threads. I'm not even supposed to have closed the thread that initiated this one, however, I'm going to do it if I think it needs to be done. Moderators are also not given access to ban users, only supermods and admins.

I don't fully agree with how things are run on these forums, as far as the rules go but no one ever does agree 100% with any set of rules.

I'm also not talking about on the forums. Many issues that I've been made aware of were phone or email originated. The problem then becomes not a moderation issue but an attitude issue.

[KpaBap]

If someone has a problem with a product they should take it up and try and resolve it with the vendor himself, rather than ruining their reputation on the forums. The point is, there should be no unfounded negativity towards a vendor. Sure, if you paypalled them $800 6 months ago and your FMIC still hasn't been shipped, bash and bitch all you want. But if it were up to me, "omg this midpipe needs some extra hangers" would've been deleted and the member warned/temp-banned in point-0 seconds.

[KpaBap]

Well, I just read your post, nothing can be done about a whiney email. But the knife has two edges, the vendors shouldn't get all butt-hurt because some moron can't read the installation instructions.

[Captain KRM P5]

i didnt know ppl gave u shit about ur products ?? ive never seen any negative posts about PG

its not your fault. it was a combination of things but Bryan (dexter) and I had and have some serious beef with the way we and other vendors were and are treated by the community. its not so much negative posts, though i know of a few keepers that i could share. there is behind the scene stuff as well - nasty phone calls, nasty emails, lies and rumors from one member to another. I had a person tell me his lawyer was going to be raping me for all I was worth because his intercooler was a week late. I mean, seriously, what the hell people? That was an extreme case but I have plenty of saved emails from people who thought thier shit didn't stink.

I challenged people then and I challenge them again. Pay for a domain name. Raise your own capital to do the buy-ins. Negotiate discounts with suppliers. Get a state and federal business license. Find a way to work suppliers who don't think your dollar is worth a damn. That's just starting the business. If you've made it that far, try running it. After that, if you've broken even the first few months you're a lucky guy (or gal)

[t3ase]

If someone has a problem with a product they should take it up and try and resolve it with the vendor himself, rather than ruining their reputation on the forums. The point is, there should be no unfounded negativity towards a vendor. Sure, if you paypalled them $800 6 months ago and your FMIC still hasn't been shipped, bash and bitch all you want. But if it were up to me, "omg this midpipe needs some extra hangers" would've been deleted and the member warned/temp-banned in point-0 seconds.
I think we're going two different ways, here. I'm in no way saying people should not voice their problems should they arrise. I'm also not going to pinpoint specific examples.

I also think we're losing the point of this thread; to simply encourage less bashing and a sligh attitude adjustment. Also a suggestion to say thanks the next time you get to some of the vendors you do business with.

[JDM Sam]

I agree with a lot in this thread. I notice these bashing threads a lot without taking to account no company or manufacturer has a 100% customer satisfaction rate. 90% of the time is considered very good. All it takes is one neg rep to tarnish your business. No one pays attentions to the postive but when one negative comment comes, everything goes sour.

[KpaBap]

its not your fault. it was a combination of things but Bryan (dexter) and I had and have some serious beef with the way we and other vendors were and are treated by the community. its not so much negative posts, though i know of a few keepers that i could share. there is behind the scene stuff as well - nasty phone calls, nasty emails, lies and rumors from one member to another. I had a person tell me his lawyer was going to be raping me for all I was worth because his intercooler was a week late. I mean, seriously, what the hell people? That was an extreme case but I have plenty of saved emails from people who thought thier shit didn't stink.

I challenged people then and I challenge them again. Pay for a domain name. Raise your own capital to do the buy-ins. Negotiate discounts with suppliers. Get a state and federal business license. Find a way to work suppliers who don't think your dollar is worth a damn. That's just starting the business. If you've made it that far, try running it. After that, if you've broken even the first few months you're a lucky guy (or gal)

Don't mean to be an ass but you will get the same kind of crap running any business, Protege-related or not. The only problem I see here is that you will hardly ever break even since it's a small (relatively speaking) community of 16-25 year olds and we all know this age group IS the most wealthiest and mature. This plays into the fact that people here are whiny children that expect more for less.

[t3ase]

Well, I just read your post, nothing can be done about a whiney email.
The "whiney email" shouldn't exist in the first place, which is the point of this thread.

[Captain KRM P5]

I agree with a lot in this thread. I notice these bashing threads a lot without taking to account no company or manufacturer has a 100% customer satisfaction rate. 90% of the time is considered very good. All it takes is one neg rep to tarnish your business. No one pays attentions to the postive but when one negative comment comes, everything goes sour.

my grandparents have a phrase: "one oh shit equals five 'atta boys" like what T3ase is saying, its a shame more poeple don't come on and say "hey what a great vendor, he did this and he did that for me and the product was good". But if so much as a scratch is on the box it becomes OMGHI2UWTFBBQ. people take however much effort is needed to shit on someone but not nearly as much to say a simple "thanks" when one is warranted. on t3ase's point, no one is saying that anyone should expect or accept a crappy product and deal with it because they are protege owners. its the respect or frankly lack therof that kills us.

[JDM Sam]

Also, if we plan on getting big name companies like AEM to make parts for our cars, we need to show some support to the vendors who carry the parts b/c if they dont sell, companies like AEM won't make them unless the vendor invests in a huge stock, and with the high amount of drama that goes on, no vendor would want to, especially to a low profit niche market.

An example would have been the RS*R exhaust I was trying to get made.

[Captain KRM P5]

Don't mean to be an ass but you will get the same kind of crap running any business, Protege-related or not. The only problem I see here is that you will hardly ever break even since it's a small (relatively speaking) community of 16-25 year olds and we all know this age group IS the most wealthiest and mature. This plays into the fact that people here are whiny children that expect more for less.

i agree with you, and that really reinforces my point. the problem really is not for the business owner, its the customer. yes, any business is going to get its share of bullshit. i've been around the business world long enough to catch that. flipside of that is that no one here should be surprised when a vendor does decide to pack up and go. its one thing for a company to take constant garbage from people that pay them a million dollars. they'll do it because in the end the revenue is worth the beating they may take. its another thing for that same company to take from a niche community that makes them comparitively nothing - they're not going to give a shit and in the end take a hike.

[Captain KRM P5]

Also, if we plan on getting big name companies like AEM to make parts for our cars, we need to show some support to the vendors who carry the parts b/c if they dont sell, companies like AEM won't make them unless the vendor invests in a huge stock, and with the high amount of drama that goes on, no vendor would want to, especially to a low profit niche market.

An example would have been the RS*R exhaust I was trying to get made.

funny you should mention AEM. when we approached them about the mazda3 and directly marketing thier product to the community, they were not shy about telling us that the community was "not thier bag". they dealt with distributors and after that they really were not interested in what the community did with those distributors. they had originally promised a short ram intake and failed to come through - they had specs, pics, even part numbers and UPCS. thier distributors (and us as well) took pre sale deposits on this item that never materialized. when i asked them what was up, i was told by thier sales department that they could care less how the customer felt and to tell them either to upgrade to the full CAI or to just not buy it.

[Dexter]

Two words: golden tommygun.

[Captain KRM P5]

Two words: golden tommygun.

thug passion

[Dexter]

All because of some fuckin "soot" in a pipe. Grow up.

[BOOSTR]

Produce a good product, stand behind it, and deliver on your promises. That's the key to establishing market share and earning repeat business. No businees will be successful for long if they fail to listen to or alienate their customer base.

I personally have had no problems with the vendors that I have purchased my mods from.

[jurgs01]

T3ase, gimme a break. The point of a forum is to get information out to new members who have no idea about modding and those who want more information. If you think people on here should keep their mouth shut about the quality and possible consequences of a product then you don't need to be a moderator. Cmon, driving vendors like Joep, Ion, and Essentialspeed out of here because people bash them? Who really cares? I could make the products Joep makes in my garage. You can get those anywhere. We have great vendors like Turfburn, **********, MAM, dexter, 505zoom, Leadfoot, Delivery Guy, DG Motorsports and others who provide everything we need. I'm sorry warning people about putting a FCD on their car (which could lead to $3000+ damage to some unknowing kids car) drove a vendor who makes a valve and a cheap piece of electronics away. There is a vendor building a safer one that you can turn off and on and has a warning light. I hope some kid new to the forums will read my post and think twice before buying something they otherwise would think as safe. I think you are the one who needs to grow up and realize that as an adult and moderator you have an obligation to warn people of the downfalls of parts that could damage their cars. I can't even name a GOOD vendor who has been pushed away except for DG Motorsports (and they are back).

[Demonic-Speed]

I have not had any problems either, but if someone has had a bad experience or did not like the product they got, damit I want to hear about it. Let me make my choice with the facts.

If a vendor messes up they should get negative feedback, hey it happeneds. If they do good they get positive feedback....

We need something that people leave feedback and vedors get a rating like ebay...That is the only fair way. Also if you really care about what you are doing you will always get a good feedback. There are vendors on ebay with 60K transactions and they still have a 95%+ rating...

Just a thought..

[Super Matty P]

they could easily walk away from this community and not be hurt financially by it.


preach on brotha Kenneth. (kissass)

[Super Matty P]

I can't even name a GOOD vendor who has been pushed away except for DG Motorsports (and they are back).


Just remember this from now whenever a new member jumps on says "who makes a supercharger for my car?" and your response has to be..."Thomas Knight Turbos". :rolleyes:

[1sty]

We do have a feedback system but a large group here decided to crap on it and not take it seriously so now there is no rhyme or reason to it. I for one take my reutation point seriously as I do offer a product here. However, 9 times out of 10 I am getting point or loosing them because someone is board at work not because of what I have done or said.

The other topic is posted feedback like in threads ect. I can not speak for Ken and T3 directly but I do not feel that they are trying to block peoples comments. If you have a problem with a vendor, then I think it should rightly be posted. However it has not been uncommon to see people over exaggerate or post a problem that they never even brought to the vendors attention.

Now, being a quasi vender here, I feel that there is a bit to much being asked by both sides. First of all, any vendor should not only expect they should know that if there is a flaw with there product that they don't tell people about up front, then that flaw is going to get discussed and probably not kindly. ESPECIALY if it cost the customer more money. If a company knows something else may be needed to properly install there product, it should be supplied or atleast disclosed to all customers.

Several times we have seen less the perfect products come out, some with serious draw backs. However, other times, that draw back is radicly over stated to make a point. So we have a hard balancing act here. As a whole, customers need to understand that vendors need atleast a chance to make a situation right. Also, customers need to be truthful about the situation instead of throwing hissy fits. Additioanly vendors need to ask for customer feedback with every sale so that they will be the one to hear about an issue first.

Something like the intercooler mess Kens mentioning is unfortunitly not uncommon. Often customers are just unreasonable. I don't know why for sure, but luckily I have never had any such interaction with any customer. All of mine have been very nice to work with and very understanding. However, I feel I might be taking steps others aren't. First of all, if there is a going to be a delay in shipping, I call the customer, they don't call me. Keeping a customer informed is incredibly important. I don't think alot of vendors do this, but then again they have alot more customers then me. Also, as a customer, I never feel its ok for a vendor to estimate a shipping time or take an order when they don not have the product in hand or control of its arrival to them.



Just some random thoughts. I think unfortunilt it the extream case of lousey vendors that put customers on edge and the extream case of insane custmers that drive off vendors. As a site, if everyone is truthful and realistic, neither should be more then a slight irritation.

[II-Savy]

"However, I feel I might be taking steps others aren't. First of all, if there is a going to be a delay in shipping, I call the customer, they don't call me. Keeping a customer informed is incredibly important."

This is the core of customer service. I have read tons of stuff here about vendors and shipping problems. The above quote is it plain and simple. SOME or MOST of the bullshit with vendors is because vendors do not take the time to call and say "This is what's happening".

Customer service is dead. Everywhere you go stores, retail, gas stations, everything. People/companies who want to provide a service need to be held to a higher moral/service level. We as paying consumers deserve it.

[jurgs01]

Just remember this from now whenever a new member jumps on says "who makes a supercharger for my car?" and your response has to be..."Thomas Knight Turbos". :rolleyes:

You seem like a good guy Matt, but you chose to jump in and state your opinion a lot. I do the same thing as you, but I am not selling a product nor am I sponsored by any vendors I am representing. Just saying that if you want to sell a product you need to chose your battles. I personally would love to see a supercharger on the market. I think you should continue to develop it. You definately need to stop jumping into flamewars if you want it to be a sucess though.

[KYMP5]

I have to say, that while we do not manufactur any products we have had great success with the members of this forum. No company has a 100% satisfaction rate but how the problem is handled will make or break your reputation. Weve had issues before but have done our best to correct it asap and i think my customers realized that.
I have seen and had conversations with other vendors on here about thier frustrations regarding how the board has treated them, r there some that deserve it, probably, r their some that got bashed that didnt deserve it, for sure.
In my personal opinion i think posts that are bashing vendors should be moderated more closely and closed until the individual with the complaint can provide proof (or thier word) that they have tried multiple times to resolve the problem privately. Too many threads get started as soon as the problem comes up and before the vendor gets the chance to resolve it

[Super Matty P]

Actually what seperates me from other vendors is that this isn't my full time job. I make plenty of money working my regular 38hrs a week. I do what I do because I love these mazda cars and I want to show people that if you set your mind to it (and have half a clue) you can really innovate.

If I have a problem it's my inability to just let stuff die. I say what I think and I'm bluntly honest with people. Some people can deal with it, some can't. I could care less if people don't like my bluntness. I don't get online to try to sell products....I post the info and interested people can come to me. I've never put any weight in this forum after I first signed on and attempted to sell my cat-less MSP mid-pipes and was flamed because "Apex" was $10-15 cheaper. I knew then that this community was just whiny broke kids (for the most part)...they just want high quality parts at budget prices.

I should've gotten into a community whose vehicles are a little more expensive....people who can afford a more expensive car usually don't bitch so much over $15.

[Captain KRM P5]

I can't even name a GOOD vendor who has been pushed away except for DG Motorsports (and they are back).

i guess Protege Garage and Flyin' Protege were not 'good vendors'? :rolleyes:

[Super Matty P]

(looking for my Calvin pissing on p-garage decal)

[laracroft]

I agree that the "younger" more impulsive members are usually the ones that do the "bashing". It's mostly because they feel they were not told the total 100% truth about the product (or whatever it is they thought they needed to know before they made their purchase) or that it took too long to get the product (due to long wait lists or shipping problems), or lack of quality in the product (bad fitment, etc.).

No matter what my personal opinion is of the actual person selling the product, I will buy according to customer service, total product satisfaction, competitive pricing and overal performance of the actual product. I wouldnt factor "they said it would take 5 days to get it to my door and it took 7!". Or "it was 3mm off and I needed to make a slight adjustment by placing the O ring closer to the sleeve." Or nonsense comments like that. Now if someone says "my hood was 2 inches off on the right and left side." or "the CF weave was slanted the whole way through",or "I had to cut one of my pipes so the FMIC would fit"... etc. then they have valid concerns that may not have originally been addressed when the buy took place. While I'm a big advocate of getting better and more access to additional products for our cars, I'm also a big advocate of having quality products for them as well. It's better to have 5 vendors that do great work and have limited products, then 50 vendors that make bad products and lots of them.

All in all, no matter how good the product or company... there will always be complaints. You cant make 100 people happy 100% of the time. Which is fine. The ones that dont buy will be made up by the ones that will. Not everyone on here is "poor", but they will save their money for something that will work. One thing that I've learned on here.... people have money... they are generally interested in ANYTHING that comes out for their cars... they will buy your products... they are just scared of blowing the car up or buying something they either may never see or that just wont fit.... period.

[t3ase]

[QUOTE=jurgs01]T3ase, gimme a break. The point of a forum is to get information out to new members who have no idea about modding and those who want more information. If you think people on here should keep their mouth shut about the quality and possible consequences of a product then you don't need to be a moderator.
You're taking my original point of this thread and twisting it all around. If you read my initial post, I say I have no problem with making problems or quality issues known.


Cmon, driving vendors like Joep, Ion, and Essentialspeed out of here because people bash them? Who really cares?
Jurgs, keep in mind we're very close to losing another major supporter of this community which WILL piss you off when it happens.

JoeP also left this community way before you were even a thought in his mind. However, the attitude you have towards him is a great example of why.


I could make the products Joep makes in my garage. You can get those anywhere.
As stated in my first post... Do it. Take the time to design a product or even setup a "retail" store for us. Get all of the IDs, approvals, loans, connections, credit, websites; everything. Then offer some products and deal with whiny little people like you all day who apparently know so much more than the vendor and "could do SO much better out of their garage so fuck them".

Were you even around back when JoeP originally released the "FPR" kit? While that piece was made out of stuff so simple that I'm sure you could whip it out of your garage in an instant, what about the FCD? Well, you say you could do that, too but yet you're still waiting for one with a flashing light? Get real, dude.

To everyone that's said 'screw joe and his stupid valve' and is making their own boost controllers from a Home Depot parts lists, I hope everything works out for you. I, however, am not going to skimp out a few bucks for the huge potential safety issue of a $20,000 car. You're a moron if you do.

That's almost as good as the people who buy racing seats off of eBay because they wanted to save some cash. It's just moronically stupid.


We have great vendors like Turfburn, **********, MAM, dexter, 505zoom, Leadfoot, Delivery Guy, DG Motorsports and others who provide everything we need.
Give it a few months in the current condition you people act. I know at least four of those will be gone, and I know exactly which ones, as I've been in contact with them. Then you'll have to spend the extra time bitching about the subforums instead of calling out our vendors to prove who's penis is larger.


I'm sorry warning people about putting a FCD on their car (which could lead to $3000+ damage to some unknowing kids car) drove a vendor who makes a valve and a cheap piece of electronics away.
If you had purchased the unit itself, you'd realize that JoeP provides one piece of paper including instructions and a warning on it. There are warnings all over the forum about it. I've wrote them myself. However, never have I been in a pissing match over it, which is exactly what you did. You weren't warning, you said something, Joe corrected you and there you were again, right back on his ass.

Let me explain something to you. Do you realize that I can name off the "large" vendors that I've seen on these forums? By large, I mean companies making turbo systems or large components that would be a very expensive investment but would make our cars SO much better.

Now do you also realize that I can also subtract the amount of vendors that the attitude received on the forum, their customer contacts, and just the general vibe of this scene, have left us? When I do, I'm left with around 6-7 companies instead of the 12-14 original. Think about that before you reply with a "so, you dont know me *snap* *snap* *snap*" reply.

We have a DISCONTINUED CAR. Everyone, not just you, please get this through your head. Whether the vendor is supplying a $3.50 switch or a $7,000 turbo kit, they're all valuable because of that fact. We need all of the help we can get if we want to keep our Protege scene going. Some of you who bought their cars last year just don't get this fact. You think you can feed out all of the immature bullshit you'd give to a Honda scene and expect nothing to happen. You're wrong. The vendors we do have mostly make their money from other people, like I mentioned with MAM before. It'd be EXTREMELY easy for them to say look, we're done with the whining and stupid drama here. Do you not realize this?


There is a vendor building a safer one that you can turn off and on and has a warning light.
A "safer" FCD? There is no such thing. That's like saying a vendor is building a "safer" turbo kit. A FCD is dangerous, regardless of who makes it or it's bells and whistles. If you think his FCD will be "safer", I urge you to go try it as soon as it comes out. Just don't post a thread about your engine blowing when you do.

One more thing on this note, I've got my FCD wired on an incabin switch which allows it to be bypassed. If you're so ready to jump up and make one out of your garage, why didn't you think of just adding a switch? Hmm.

You could probably also wire a LED in with the proper knowledge to know when it's active.


I hope some kid new to the forums will read my post and think twice before buying something they otherwise would think as safe.Again, it's all over the forum.

I'm so tired of reading these forums and these threads that seem to repeat themselves. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions here, with the exception of the few "gods" who have blown their shit up and have now been forced to rebuild with all kinds of new goodies. It's sad that in order to be a "god" here, you just have to take responsibility intead of taking the car to a dealership and conning them in to fixing your shit.

Every time I see a blown motor thread or a new problem, it's "take your mods off and take it back". I had to fight and pretty much threaten legal representation when my Mazda dealership failed to put fluid back in the tranny after they fixed a previous issue. Would it have been such a big issue if we didn't have so many people trying to get the best of both worlds, stock warranty and modified car? I doubt it.

No one accepts responsibility for their own actions, here. We need a warning, we need a light, we need to not have this product offered, we need a better version, we didn't get our supersize. Come on, people. Your decisions affect your life. Deal with that. I swear half of you should be driving that Hello Kitty Protege posted on the forum a while back.

I've got 90psi compression in cylinder three. Will you see me running off to the dealership after taking all of my mods off to be sneaky sneaky and get a warranty claim out of it? No. That's stupid, pathetic, and the reason why you people bitch about Mazda not wanting to warranty ANYTHING with this damn car.


I think you are the one who needs to grow up and realize that as an adult and moderator you have an obligation to warn people of the downfalls of parts that could damage their cars.
Again, warning about downfalls is one thing and that one thing has been done, many times. IF you didn't know this, you have failed to be observant or read threads. That's not my problem.

Warning someone of a vendor's known problems is that one thing.
Bitching at the vendor directly to try to prove them wrong or to complain about something that is truly out of their control (eg: daily at ProtegeGarage), is a completely different matter.



I can't even name a GOOD vendor who has been pushed away except for DG Motorsports (and they are back).
Then, honestly, you're not part of these forums enough to realize what we've lost. If carbon fiber gas lid covers are more important to everyone here than engine modifications or turbo kits, I'll be looking in to selling my Protege sooner than I thought because it's all downhill from here.

[t3ase]

Guys, this isn't a simple concept of "you can't make everyone happy, all of the time". If any of you are truly curious about what I'm referring to, please contact a vendor or someone who was a vendor (Captain, dex) and ask them about their customers.

[Dexter]

The best thing was when I called a guy a dick for being just that: a huge dick. Boy did that piss him off. Oh noes, you can never call a customer a dick! Sorry dude, money doesn't change my feelings and if you're being a dick to me you can take your money back, dude. I'm not going around to serve the servants.

[t3ase]

One more thing I need to mention again. I have *no* problem with people coming out with problems. I have even encouraged iON to answer replies in a public thread instead of PM to clear up many worries. The fact that people are turning this in to a "he wants us to shut up about everything" discussion is yet another example of how hard headed and ignorant the people here are.

[rktktpaul]

Brilliant T3ase, absolutely brilliant!

(thumb)

[noclue119]

Honestly I've only dealt with 1 Vendor. DSMconvert on this AFC. His product was A+. Service was A+. Value A+. If he had more products I wanted, I'd do it again.


I've been around to see all the ION drama go down. And personally I don't like the way he does business so i don't endourse his products. But he is the only vendor I dislike.

But all the other vendor deserve credit for a job well done. Even Joe P may have a not so great product by itself but what did you expect when you wanted a device to get around a safty measure. His product was designed to work in conjection with other things in order to produce power. You misinterupted his product and slapped it on without the knowledge to make it work properly. It's like I sell you a knive to cut you seat belt when you are trapped in an accidently but you decided to cut your seat belt off for the fun of it and blame me for your injuries when you wreck.

Id-10-t users does not equal bad vendor.

[peepsalot]

We need a warning, we need a light, we need to not have this product offered, we need a better version, we didn't get our supersize.

I didn't get my supersize either. I thought I was the only one. WTF, how many others were scammed?

[t3ase]

Even Joe P may have a not so great product by itself but what did you expect when you wanted a device to get around a safty measure.
His product works fine and *is* great, despite the fact it doesn't have a flashing LED light to add to your rainbow of dash colors. It does it's job but it's being blamed for the owner's ignorance, which is also unfair.

[KpaBap]

Velkome to Ameddica. What's responsibility?


Sadly, people will put more effort into suing/defaming/bashing others than doing a little bit of research and making an informed purchase.

[LinuxRacr]

Brilliant T3ase, absolutely brilliant!

(thumb)

I agree, and put forth the supermod stamp of approval on this thread...for real. We may have to implement some type of guidlines to curb the bullshit. The points made were excellent.

I for one can attest to doing things to my car, and then blowing my motor. The only things I expected to be warrantied are the things that had nothing to do with blowing my motor. I'm on the 3rd one. Paid over $2k each time to fix...although a couple of those were $4k experiences. Bonus money just gone. :( What do you expect when you modify a car? I know that I didn't have that attitude when I 1st started moding, but I had to grow up and learn to take responsibility for my actions. Another thing is people are so damn used to the I want it now of today's society. Is there anyone on here that has been alive long enough to remember the days before the internet where waiting on things was expected? I mean unless you paid for overnight shipping, you should be more realistic about things, especially when a vendor has made you aware of shipping issues by communicating to you.

[KYMP5]

nice post tease

[noclue119]

His product works fine and *is* great, despite the fact it doesn't have a flashing LED light to add to your rainbow of dash colors. It does it's job but it's being blamed for the owner's ignorance, which is also unfair.

I'm not saying it was a bad product. It was the user who are retarded about the product that caused the problems.

[KpaBap]

Haha, yeah, remember when you actually had to leave your house and go browse a million auto parts stores, junkyards and fleamarkets for that ever-so-elusive distributor cap or whatever....

[laracroft]

Anyone that works in retail or anything like that understand where you guys are coming from. No matter what you do, people aren't going to be 100% happy. You're going to have 5 happy people, but you'll also have that 2-3 others that wont be. And no matter if you tell them you'll refund them their money or not, they will STILL call you out or bitch about the experience...especially on here unfortunetly. Those of us that can see past that and understand the work and product reliability that you come out with, appreciate you. I dont make it a habit of judging the product along with judging the person as long as the product has a good following. And there are alot of "pricks" that come out with good products btw. lol jk But in all seriousness, the majority here WANT vendors to come out with new and exciting products, as long as they are shown to work. Althought I would be more hesitant to buy from someone with 100 posts and "I'm getting this made... just haven't done it yet and not sure how it'll turn out...".

Now, if you have a new member that bought something from you and he has like 5 posts and complains, compared to a member that has been modding for a year or more and 2,000 posts & good threads, then there may be a problem or some sort of validity to it. People will start to question you about it. But for the noobs, most of us can see past the invalid complaints and whining and make a good decision based on actual facts at hand by the more informative and knowledgable members.

I dont want to see anyone go or lose business because of a few complaints but tis the nature of business. It's fickle out there. But you will have your supporters as well guys. Dont lose your imagination or willingness to create something just because of a few setbacks or bad comments here and there.

[daedalus]

good post.

If we lost any of the vendors on this forum i think i would cry, then kill myself. My car is worthless to me without an aftermarket outlet.

[t3ase]

good post.

If we lost any of the vendors on this forum i think i would cry, then kill myself. My car is worthless to me without an aftermarket outlet.
I'm glad you realize this. Maybe more will jump on with your train of thought.

[Dexter]

Yes! more blood shall be shed for the continutation of the Mazda aftermarket! Without sacrifice of young virgins, the eternal flame gods shall be pissed.

[Captain KRM P5]

Anyone that works in retail or anything like that understand where you guys are coming from. No matter what you do, people aren't going to be 100% happy. You're going to have 5 happy people, but you'll also have that 2-3 others that wont be. And no matter if you tell them you'll refund them their money or not, they will STILL call you out or bitch about the experience...especially on here unfortunetly.

i have been in retail management for years and feel the same way. what the forum needs to understand that while WalMart or Target isn't going to leave thier city because of attitudes and thanklessness, vendors who do make the bulk of thier money elsewhere won't shed a tear and will say buh bye to this place.

[peepsalot]

1. Vendors are mammals.
2. Vendors work hard ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the vendor is to flip out and make you car explode.




Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about protege vendors?

A: Vendors are the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they don't give a crap, but on the other hand, they are very careful and precise.

Q: I heard that vendors are always cruel or mean. What's their problem?

A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other mammals, vendors can be mean OR totally awesome.

Q: What do vendors do when they're not ripping off people or flipping out?

A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab. (Ask Mark if you don't believe me.)




I love all vendors in the protege community with all of my body, (including my pee pee).(humpleg)

I hope everyone has a healthy sense of humor.

In all seriousness, I appreciate everything vendors have done and continue to do for us, I know I can be a demanding bastard at times, but I have always been appreciative of their work.

[KYMP5]

i have been in retail management for years and feel the same way. what the forum needs to understand that while WalMart or Target isn't going to leave thier city because of attitudes and thanklessness, vendors who do make the bulk of thier money elsewhere won't shed a tear and will say buh bye to this place.

Id cry if the owner of my sites came to me and told me to stop being a vendor here. Ive been here a long time and will be here much longer if i have my way. The boss gets mad sometimes because i dont make shit off my sales in this forum but i pay the vendor fees out of my own pocket and we move some product, so the boss will just have to get over it.
Im here because ive been posting here forever and consider every one on this forum a family member, ive mets lots of you and had a great time on here. Being able to hook you allup with the stuff that i happen to sell is a bonus, i like helping my friends save money, ill make it up elsewhere by increasing the volume i sell on the phone..

[Captain KRM P5]

Id cry if the owner of my sites came to me and told me to stop being a vendor here. Ive been here a long time and will be here much longer if i have my way. The boss gets mad sometimes because i dont make shit off my sales in this forum but i pay the vendor fees out of my own pocket and we move some product, so the boss will just have to get over it.
Im here because ive been posting here forever and consider every one on this forum a family member, ive mets lots of you and had a great time on here. Being able to hook you allup with the stuff that i happen to sell is a bonus, i like helping my friends save money, ill make it up elsewhere by increasing the volume i sell on the phone..

i hear you 110% my friend.

[JDM Sam]

It's more like people need instruction manuals on how to do every little thing now. There is such thing as searching and finding out on your own instead of depending on others. People don't know what buyer beware means these days, or even have a bit of common sense. Which is why we have stupid disclaimers on coffee cups b/c some moron spilt her drink on her crotch.

[Demonic-Speed]

^
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Oh yea, that is an off-topic rant:)

[ZeroAccess]

I didn't read every little rule buts here my input.
I haven't been here that long (protoge5 board) but I've been around a while.

The part about moderators is this : if you give moderator too much power the other members start to become upset when a moderator asks hastely and bans/deletes a posts that goes against the rules. No matter what moderators will be hated or have their asses kissed its the way it is. A good moderator knows this and walks the fine line between greatness and failure. My point is either have 1,000 or 5 moderators no matter what someone is going to say that this isn't done right or thats not done right, so solution...just shut up and keep moving on moderate yourself.

Now with the vendors issue. I have been looking into turbo'ing my car and with just the turbo/forced induction forum there is WAY more bickering and fighting between certain vendors and certain members. I have spoken with some of the vendors that were "dealt" with so to speak and find them to be pleasent people. I believe this forum is a little odd with having to charge vendors but it helps the forum and helps the vendors. I am not sure what the charge is but if everyone thinks about it vendors have to pay to be here and then they have to help every single one of us. They probally get 100 PM's or so from newbies (like me) and others just wasting their time looking for free stuff.

If I was a vendor I would have left here a long time ago, or just posted my website and been done with it. Some of the members here are just rude and obnoxious. Also some of the vendors here are even worse. Like I said I've barely been here (like 4-5 days now) and I can already tell who I'd like to purchase stuff and not purchase stuff from on a customer service level.

I tried very hard not to call anyone out and I really hope the people I am talking about read this thread/posts because customer service is a HUGE part of purchasing parts for me expecially when the items are somewhat related (such as forced induction) I am not going to buy a part that someone is constantly griping about helping people or will not help people with his/her parts.

Done with my rant and I apologize for the repetitiveness and length its just simple. Moderate yourselves for god sakes (this is a lot bigger than the point below like 90%)

Vendors, realize that everything you say and do reflects on the item your selling. (not that all the vendors/any of them are doing bad jobs just everything kind of goes both ways)

[t3ase]

^
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Oh yea, that is an off-topic rant:)
JDM's rant actually applies quite nicely.

[t3ase]

I didn't read every little rule buts here my input.
I haven't been here that long (protoge5 board) but I've been around a while.

The part about moderators is this : if you give moderator too much power the other members start to become upset when a moderator asks hastely and bans/deletes a posts that goes against the rules. No matter what moderators will be hated or have their asses kissed its the way it is. A good moderator knows this and walks the fine line between greatness and failure. My point is either have 1,000 or 5 moderators no matter what someone is going to say that this isn't done right or thats not done right, so solution...just shut up and keep moving on moderate yourself.

Now with the vendors issue. I have been looking into turbo'ing my car and with just the turbo/forced induction forum there is WAY more bickering and fighting between certain vendors and certain members. I have spoken with some of the vendors that were "dealt" with so to speak and find them to be pleasent people. I believe this forum is a little odd with having to charge vendors but it helps the forum and helps the vendors. I am not sure what the charge is but if everyone thinks about it vendors have to pay to be here and then they have to help every single one of us. They probally get 100 PM's or so from newbies (like me) and others just wasting their time looking for free stuff.

If I was a vendor I would have left here a long time ago, or just posted my website and been done with it. Some of the members here are just rude and obnoxious. Also some of the vendors here are even worse. Like I said I've barely been here (like 4-5 days now) and I can already tell who I'd like to purchase stuff and not purchase stuff from on a customer service level.

I tried very hard not to call anyone out and I really hope the people I am talking about read this thread/posts because customer service is a HUGE part of purchasing parts for me expecially when the items are somewhat related (such as forced induction) I am not going to buy a part that someone is constantly griping about helping people or will not help people with his/her parts.

Done with my rant and I apologize for the repetitiveness and length its just simple. Moderate yourselves for god sakes (this is a lot bigger than the point below like 90%)

Vendors, realize that everything you say and do reflects on the item your selling. (not that all the vendors/any of them are doing bad jobs just everything kind of goes both ways)
This has turned in to a "customer service" issue when the original post was a "member outlook" issue. If you treat someone (a vendor) like shit, you're going to be treated like shit, it's as simple as that. We're such a small community that vendors don't have to sugar coat things to make us happy. If we don't like their "tact", so be it. We have no other choice.

However, let's keep the vendors we currently have by not being such asses to them.

[Super Matty P]

1. Vendors are mammals.
2. Vendors work hard ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the vendor is to flip out and make you car explode.




Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about protege vendors?

A: Vendors are the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they don't give a crap, but on the other hand, they are very careful and precise.

Q: I heard that vendors are always cruel or mean. What's their problem?

A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other mammals, vendors can be mean OR totally awesome.

Q: What do vendors do when they're not ripping off people or flipping out?

A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab. (Ask Mark if you don't believe me.)



I


This is AWESOME!! This is exactly how I feel.....almost like it was directed towards me!

[jurgs01]

[QUOTE=t3ase][QUOTE=jurgs01]


You're taking my original point of this thread and twisting it all around. If you read my initial post, I say I have no problem with making problems or quality issues known.

What did I do to Joep? I tried to link the common link of his FCD being on most of the blown engines. Then he comes on and tries to make his product sound better and defend it. That's the point of a forum T3ease. To discuss modifications, parts, and quality. I had previously lost all respect for him because of the way he treated customers in a thread where they just wanted some status on part. He made them feel like morons. That was un-called for and I'll never have any respect for him as a vendor again. That combined with the fact that I owned his parts on my first MSP so I have every right to talk about their quality.


Jurgs, keep in mind we're very close to losing another major supporter of this community which WILL piss you off when it happens.

Customer support will make everyone like a vendor. Keep them updated and be honest and you will have no problems.

JoeP also left this community way before you were even a thought in his mind. However, the attitude you have towards him is a great example of why.

He has an attitude himself. As a vendor he has engaged in more than one flamewar. That leads to his own peril.

As stated in my first post... Do it. Take the time to design a product or even setup a "retail" store for us. Get all of the IDs, approvals, loans, connections, credit, websites; everything. Then offer some products and deal with whiny little people like you all day who apparently know so much more than the vendor and "could do SO much better out of their garage so fuck them".

If I wasn't so busy with full-time college and active duty responsibilities maybe I would. You are modifying the MAF signal, which is a piece of cake if you know what causes the cut in the ECU. A great idea would be to make one that interfaced with a wideband and a/f & timing controller. Keep the proper ratios and maybe retard timing a degree or two when you go past cut. All in modification of signals. Could easily be done with a microcontroller and basic circuitry (and R & D time).

Were you even around back when JoeP originally released the "FPR" kit? While that piece was made out of stuff so simple that I'm sure you could whip it out of your garage in an instant, what about the FCD? Well, you say you could do that, too but yet you're still waiting for one with a flashing light? Get real, dude.

I have already stated that I would not get a FCD, so saying what I am waiting for is a waste of time. I think the one with a light that tells you when you pass fuel cut and a switch to turn it off would be a better alternative for the possible users. I also have seen discussions by both Turfburn and Joep, and Turfburn understands WHY things work, while JOEP has knowledge bred by familiarity. I would trust Turfburn's products personally.

To everyone that's said 'screw joe and his stupid valve' and is making their own boost controllers from a Home Depot parts lists, I hope everything works out for you. I, however, am not going to skimp out a few bucks for the huge potential safety issue of a $20,000 car. You're a moron if you do.

I was using this to portray the "quality" of his parts. They are low-quality and thus they are cheap. I have spent over 8 grand and haven't upped the boost on my car yet, so you need to modify your statement if you are referring to me.

That's almost as good as the people who buy racing seats off of eBay because they wanted to save some cash. It's just moronically stupid.

Read above post.


Give it a few months in the current condition you people act. I know at least four of those will be gone, and I know exactly which ones, as I've been in contact with them. Then you'll have to spend the extra time bitching about the subforums instead of calling out our vendors to prove who's penis is larger.

As long as people pay their vendor fees, then let's not allow others to scrutinize them or their parts (or the mods will close the thread). That's part of running a business. Customers are sometimes a bitch to deal with.


If you had purchased the unit itself, you'd realize that JoeP provides one piece of paper including instructions and a warning on it. There are warnings all over the forum about it. I've wrote them myself. However, never have I been in a pissing match over it, which is exactly what you did. You weren't warning, you said something, Joe corrected you and there you were again, right back on his ass.

I said name me three cars that had blown engines that didn't have Joep FCDs on them. Maybe it comes with my line of work, but I tend to look at the problem, analyze the common known factors, and generate a conclusion. When I was going through the blown motor threads I noticed that most of the had Joep's FCD. Just an observation that I decided deserved to be noted.

Let me explain something to you. Do you realize that I can name off the "large" vendors that I've seen on these forums? By large, I mean companies making turbo systems or large components that would be a very expensive investment but would make our cars SO much better.

They have bigger markets to attend to. Take an economics course. This market is best for small vendors trying to get their name out. It is that way whether we a "happy little customers who don't talk back" or if we aren't.

Now do you also realize that I can also subtract the amount of vendors that the attitude received on the forum, their customer contacts, and just the general vibe of this scene, have left us? When I do, I'm left with around 6-7 companies instead of the 12-14 original. Think about that before you reply with a "so, you dont know me *snap* *snap* *snap*" reply.

I will state again that the vendors who are respectful and keep customers up to date are still with us. A lot of those vendors deserved the bad image.

We have a DISCONTINUED CAR. Everyone, not just you, please get this through your head. Whether the vendor is supplying a $3.50 switch or a $7,000 turbo kit, they're all valuable because of that fact. We need all of the help we can get if we want to keep our Protege scene going. Some of you who bought their cars last year just don't get this fact. You think you can feed out all of the immature bullshit you'd give to a Honda scene and expect nothing to happen. You're wrong. The vendors we do have mostly make their money from other people, like I mentioned with MAM before. It'd be EXTREMELY easy for them to say look, we're done with the whining and stupid drama here. Do you not realize this?

I agree. That doesn't mean we have to kiss every vendor's ass. The ones who meet my above criteria I will give the ultimate respect to.

A "safer" FCD? There is no such thing. That's like saying a vendor is building a "safer" turbo kit. A FCD is dangerous, regardless of who makes it or it's bells and whistles. If you think his FCD will be "safer", I urge you to go try it as soon as it comes out. Just don't post a thread about your engine blowing when you do.

Why is there no such thing. I said safer, not SAFE. I know it is dangerous which is why I would never put one on my car. I stated his was safer because it had better monitoring capabilities and wasn't on all the time.

One more thing on this note, I've got my FCD wired on an incabin switch which allows it to be bypassed. If you're so ready to jump up and make one out of your garage, why didn't you think of just adding a switch? Hmm.

Don't and would never get a FCD. If I did get one I would've wired an in-cabin switch (basic). My post was not targeted to mean for the novice.

You could probably also wire a LED in with the proper knowledge to know when it's active.

Very true.

Again, it's all over the forum.

Doesn't mean I don't have the right to discuss it.

I'm so tired of reading these forums and these threads that seem to repeat themselves. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions here, with the exception of the few "gods" who have blown their shit up and have now been forced to rebuild with all kinds of new goodies. It's sad that in order to be a "god" here, you just have to take responsibility intead of taking the car to a dealership and conning them in to fixing your shit.

I agree with you here. Even though my dealership is cool about mods, I do everything myself. I think if you mod your car you should accept the consequences. I didn't buy the car for the warrantee.

Every time I see a blown motor thread or a new problem, it's "take your mods off and take it back". I had to fight and pretty much threaten legal representation when my Mazda dealership failed to put fluid back in the tranny after they fixed a previous issue. Would it have been such a big issue if we didn't have so many people trying to get the best of both worlds, stock warranty and modified car? I doubt it.

My posts had nothing to do with warrantee work, but I can see I allowed you to express something that has been on your chest.

No one accepts responsibility for their own actions, here. We need a warning, we need a light, we need to not have this product offered, we need a better version, we didn't get our supersize. Come on, people. Your decisions affect your life. Deal with that. I swear half of you should be driving that Hello Kitty Protege posted on the forum a while back.

I was saying something with a warning is better than something without. Nothing more. I will accept responsibility for my actions. You are preaching to the wrong person.

I've got 90psi compression in cylinder three. Will you see me running off to the dealership after taking all of my mods off to be sneaky sneaky and get a warranty claim out of it? No. That's stupid, pathetic, and the reason why you people bitch about Mazda not wanting to warranty ANYTHING with this damn car.

Redundant, but again glad you could get it off your chest.

Again, warning about downfalls is one thing and that one thing has been done, many times. IF you didn't know this, you have failed to be observant or read threads. That's not my problem.

I joined in sep 2003 and read for months before making my first post. The fact that there were warnings doesn't mean I can't give warnings. Not everyone reads old threads.

Warning someone of a vendor's known problems is that one thing.
Bitching at the vendor directly to try to prove them wrong or to complain about something that is truly out of their control (eg: daily at ProtegeGarage), is a completely different matter.

Again, I did not start out in a flamewar with Joe. I will have to go back and see why it turned into one. The vendor is just as guilty for engaging in the flamewar. I will say again that good vendors stay clear of these. That's their responsibility.


Then, honestly, you're not part of these forums enough to realize what we've lost. If carbon fiber gas lid covers are more important to everyone here than engine modifications or turbo kits, I'll be looking in to selling my Protege sooner than I thought because it's all downhill from here.

Why don't you educate me? You give me specific vendors that we've lost and why we lost them. 9 times out of 10 it was because of poor customer service that was bitched about. This forum is about the consumer as much as the vendor. BTW, who do you think has bought more parts $$ wise from vendors on this forum? Me or you? I think that's a big factor in keeping them around. In that sense, I have done more than my part.

Finally T3ease, you don't have to worry about me bashing poor vendors with quality parts and good customer service like Joep:rolleyes: anymore. In writing this post I have realized that my GF is right and posting on here is a waste of time. I am training to be a Naval Officer, and to sit here arguing with people I don't know about what is right and wrong on a car forum is something I shouldn't engage in anymore. I will do all of my correspondence when I want to buy parts via PM. I have a beautiful girl and a great job that I should be putting more time into and should have realized that a long time ago.

[Dexter]

Authorized Vendors are big dick sucking doucheholes.

[kwiktsi]

I'll only say JoeP, as he has no problem voicing his opinion


:D

Anyway, it is people like Tease that keep some of us around trying to help when we can.

Tease, I had heard similar stories from other Vendors from the start and even from other auto enthusiasts that have lurked here, but you saw how it always turned into "no fair- you can't single us out!!". I am *honestly* a very nice person who will give you the shirt off my back- I would not bitch about someone or bash them for no reason. I'm sure I'll find other posts here as I read on that will be good and bad, but Tease has a valid point here and you guys should consider this.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

I made a post about this in a different thread which i cannot remember now. Damnit.

edit: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1461035&postcount=55

Wow, just read that- you hit the nail on the head there buddy. One bitching person *will* ruin your day when you are trying to make everyone happy- I swear that is the cause of my ulcer :).
Joe

edit- I just read this and you are dead on with all this. I haven't even made it off the first page yet and there are so many valid points. I had another reputable Protege vendor ask me early on if I wanted to sell his stuff to the MSP community if he decided to make it because he didn't want to deal with it.


i'd like to make the point that many of the vendors here do not make thier bread and butter on this forum. not by a long shot do we put food on thier tables. they have plenty of other business elsewhere that make it worth thier while. knowing that should make this forum plenty more thankful and respectful towards the people that do contribute the time, effort, product and knowledge that they do all while continually taking it in the tail from people. they could easily walk away from this community and not be hurt financially by it.

side note - if i recall right, Flyin' Protege/Flyin' Miata was also turned off by the attitudes here but that was some time ago now

[laracroft]

Here is something that is true of any small business these days, tuner related or otherwise:

“Marketing is not a battle of products, it's a battle of perceptions. It doesn't matter if you have best product or service, it's what people THINK that counts. That is not to say, you shouldn't have a good product or service - it is a prerequisite of doing business these days. Customers expect it.”

Now, I dont have a million dealings with everyone small or big business on here, but I will say this... SPD is the shiznit. I have had nothing but good dealings with them. I know that Ghost has had good dealings with DG Motorsports also... save for a few times that they "forgot" to charge his credit card for about 2 weeks and wreaked a little havoc with his budgeting. lol And I'm sure there are others out there that we've all had good dealings with that havent been mentioned. As a side note, I have to say that from my personal experience with either SPD or Ghost with DG, they have been nothing sort of professional and upstanding to do business with each and every time. So me personally, thanks goes out to Chris @ SPD.

[kwiktsi]

its not your fault. it was a combination of things but Bryan (dexter) and I had and have some serious beef with the way we and other vendors were and are treated by the community. its not so much negative posts, though i know of a few keepers that i could share. there is behind the scene stuff as well - nasty phone calls, nasty emails, lies and rumors from one member to another. I had a person tell me his lawyer was going to be raping me for all I was worth because his intercooler was a week late. I mean, seriously, what the hell people? That was an extreme case but I have plenty of saved emails from people who thought thier shit didn't stink.

I challenged people then and I challenge them again. Pay for a domain name. Raise your own capital to do the buy-ins. Negotiate discounts with suppliers. Get a state and federal business license. Find a way to work suppliers who don't think your dollar is worth a damn. That's just starting the business. If you've made it that far, try running it. After that, if you've broken even the first few months you're a lucky guy (or gal)

Dude, I had one broad have her lawyer send me a letter "demanding" her money back within xx time- and I had never heard from her prior that she wanted a refund or asking what was going on. I have always admitted that shipping on the FCD's and such is slow- it is not my main product and it is a low volume part, but to do that without even contacting me first- jesus h christ..
Joe

[laracroft]

....side note - if i recall right, Flyin' Protege/Flyin' Miata was also turned off by the attitudes here but that was some time ago now

Wow.. thats a name I havent heard of in a WHILE. I wondered what ever happened with them?????
(uhm)

[kwiktsi]

T3ase, gimme a break. The point of a forum is to get information out to new members who have no idea about modding and those who want more information. If you think people on here should keep their mouth shut about the quality and possible consequences of a product then you don't need to be a moderator. Cmon, driving vendors like Joep, Ion, and Essentialspeed out of here because people bash them? Who really cares? I could make the products Joep makes in my garage. You can get those anywhere. We have great vendors like Turfburn, **********, MAM, dexter, 505zoom, Leadfoot, Delivery Guy, DG Motorsports and others who provide everything we need. I'm sorry warning people about putting a FCD on their car (which could lead to $3000+ damage to some unknowing kids car) drove a vendor who makes a valve and a cheap piece of electronics away. There is a vendor building a safer one that you can turn off and on and has a warning light. I hope some kid new to the forums will read my post and think twice before buying something they otherwise would think as safe. I think you are the one who needs to grow up and realize that as an adult and moderator you have an obligation to warn people of the downfalls of parts that could damage their cars. I can't even name a GOOD vendor who has been pushed away except for DG Motorsports (and they are back).

I have bumped heads with you already, it is like trying to convince a fucking drooling retard not to piss on the toilet seat. All I can say is yes- ANYONE CAN COPY ANYTHING. Tell me why the bleed hole is the size it is, why the spring rate is what it is, why I used that particular thread size, etc. Come one man, there is more to it then just a bunch of parts that you can now buy yourself and copy. The FCD works just fine, ANY FCD can lead to the problems you described- the reason someone is now making them with an on/off switch and a warning light has NOTHING to do with the FCD being better- but they *know* the market they are selling to and they are trying to prevent shit like this. I have told several people the risks involved with the FCD, what psi *max* to run, etc. You know the replys I get?? "But what if", "how about only sometimes", etc. You cannot blame the vendor for things the customer is doing. I am not a babysitter, if you chose to be fine but blaming someone for selling a product that can lead to problems if mis used and even giving warnings (the instructions even say that modifications can cause failure, blah blah) is like blaming Smith and Wesson because your dumb ass shot your dick off when putting a gun in your pocket (braindead ..Like I have said before- get a clue before flapping your damn labia.
Joe

[t3ase]

I have bumped heads with you already, it is like trying to convince a fucking drooling retard not to piss on the toilet seat. All I can say is yes- ANYONE CAN COPY ANYTHING. Tell me why the bleed hole is the size it is, why the spring rate is what it is, why I used that particular thread size, etc. Come one man, there is more to it then just a bunch of parts that you can now buy yourself and copy. The FCD works just fine, ANY FCD can lead to the problems you described- the reason someone is now making them with an on/off switch and a warning light has NOTHING to do with the FCD being better- but they *know* the market they are selling to and they are trying to prevent shit like this. I have told several people the risks involved with the FCD, what psi *max* to run, etc. You know the replys I get?? "But what if", "how about only sometimes", etc. You cannot blame the vendor for things the customer is doing. I am not a babysitter, if you chose to be fine but blaming someone for selling a product that can lead to problems if mis used and even giving warnings (the instructions even say that modifications can cause failure, blah blah) is like blaming Smith and Wesson because your dumb ass shot your dick off when putting a gun in your pocket (braindead ..Like I have said before- get a clue before flapping your damn labia.
Joe
(evil)

[BlkZoomZoom]

Joes just mad my protege is faster than is wrx... when I don't start in second anyways...

[kwiktsi]

"However, I feel I might be taking steps others aren't. First of all, if there is a going to be a delay in shipping, I call the customer, they don't call me. Keeping a customer informed is incredibly important."

This is the core of customer service. I have read tons of stuff here about vendors and shipping problems. The above quote is it plain and simple. SOME or MOST of the bullshit with vendors is because vendors do not take the time to call and say "This is what's happening".

Customer service is dead. Everywhere you go stores, retail, gas stations, everything. People/companies who want to provide a service need to be held to a higher moral/service level. We as paying consumers deserve it.

I admit, this is one of my problems too. My customer service is great when I am dealing with the customer (unless they are an ass then I treat them as such), however I am a one man show here and I work full time outside of this, moderate two forums, etc. I always think "damn, I should let so and so know the parts never showed up today" at the worst times and by the time I get home, cook dinner, answer emails, spend *some* time with my wife, build, pack, etc. I usually forget. That is why I put notes up saying delays can happen and to contact me if this may be an issue. Not to put it on the customer, but in the hopes that if there is a question, they will contact me. Hell, if a customer say's "email me when it goes out", I tell them straight up I will probably forget and it is nothing personla, so please just email me on whatever day. Just how it is for a one man show like this. I don't have people sitting here doing this stuff for me and I couldn't afford it if I wanted to.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Joes just mad my protege is faster than is wrx... when I don't start in second anyways...

Bwahahahaha.. Even my protege spanked my buddies high 13 sec wrx- but nobody here believed me then lol.. I give up with this damn car. Subaru people are clowns and feel it is worth putting 10k into a car to run 11's. I am looking for something else to drive and leaving the WRX as a reliable daily driver. It has full exhaust, up pipe, MBC and I have headers coming for it. I am going to do a Utec and leave it.
Joe

[t3ase]

leaving the WRX as a reliable daily driver. It has full exhaust, up pipe, MBC and I have headers coming for it. I am going to do a Utec and leave it.
3" downipie (installed), 3" cat back (in garage), 720 CC injectors (in the mail), Headers (in the garagel), Walbro pump (in the mail), Forced performance Green- IN THE MAIL!!! Lets hear all the "it's a WRX, you can't do that" talk AFTER we cross the line......

[BlkZoomZoom]

yeah I'm going bigger and badder this year too. Hope to be mid/low 12's. See ya wednesday nights.

[peepsalot]

Bwahahahaha.. Even my protege spanked my buddies high 13 sec wrx- but nobody here believed me then lol.. I give up with this damn car. Subaru people are clowns and feel it is worth putting 10k into a car to run 11's. I am looking for something else to drive and leaving the WRX as a reliable daily driver. It has full exhaust, up pipe, MBC and I have headers coming for it. I am going to do a Utec and leave it.
Joe

Uh-oh, in that case I think we have a few protege clowns around here. Only thing is they aren't even running 11's. (headshake

[RyanJayG]

it truely is sad when someone jumps all over a vendor for a slight delay in shipping (that is out of their control), or a slight quality control issue (that most vendors will fix most expediantly anyways).

people really need to chill out with the immediate bitching, whining, and complaining that just seems to positively flow from younger members on this board.

For the record I joined this board in December of 2001, lurked for a couple months before that, and let me tell you... there were 3 mods available for our cars at the time.... LITERALLY 3!!!!!! Bosal cat-back exhaust (which I have and for whatever reason I've never had any trouble with, though others have had MAJOR issues), APC altezza tail lights (yuck) and something else that escapes me at the moment.

you should all be so grateful for what is brought to market for our cars, especially now since they are discontinued. If you want a million parts available then go buy a honda, but I'm guessing since you bought a Mazda then you aren't a clone. So, just learn to be grateful and patient, because none of our vendors are wal-mart sized. most are mom-and-pop sized stores. you just have to learn to accept it.

[kwiktsi]

The best thing was when I called a guy a dick for being just that: a huge dick. Boy did that piss him off. Oh noes, you can never call a customer a dick! Sorry dude, money doesn't change my feelings and if you're being a dick to me you can take your money back, dude. I'm not going around to serve the servants.

I love the "how dare you, bow down" attitude from people half your age who have earned no respect and think they are owed. I agree, I have refunded a few people over this, I just would rather not deal with it.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Yes! more blood shall be shed for the continutation of the Mazda aftermarket! Without sacrifice of young virgins, the eternal flame gods shall be pissed.

don't sacrifice them, send them my way and I will supply all the parts you want :).

Actually, as long as we aren't talking jailbait young- that's not my thing lol.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

1. Vendors are mammals.

2. Vendors work hard ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the vendor is to flip out and make you car explode.







Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about protege vendors?

A: Vendors are the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they don't give a crap, but on the other hand, they are very careful and precise.

Q: I heard that vendors are always cruel or mean. What's their problem?

A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other mammals, vendors can be mean OR totally awesome.

Q: What do vendors do when they're not ripping off people or flipping out?

A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab. (Ask Mark if you don't believe me.)




I love all vendors in the protege community with all of my body, (including my pee pee).(humpleg)

I hope everyone has a healthy sense of humor.

In all seriousness, I appreciate everything vendors have done and continue to do for us, I know I can be a demanding bastard at times, but I have always been appreciative of their work.

Thanks, but I have my own pee pee and it keeps me plenty occupied- don't need another lol.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

[QUOTE=t3ase][QUOTE=jurgs01]


You're taking my original point of this thread and twisting it all around. If you read my initial post, I say I have no problem with making problems or quality issues known.

What did I do to Joep? I tried to link the common link of his FCD being on most of the blown engines. Then he comes on and tries to make his product sound better and defend it. That's the point of a forum T3ease. To discuss modifications, parts, and quality. I had previously lost all respect for him because of the way he treated customers in a thread where they just wanted some status on part. He made them feel like morons. That was un-called for and I'll never have any respect for him as a vendor again. That combined with the fact that I owned his parts on my first MSP so I have every right to talk about their quality.


Jurgs, keep in mind we're very close to losing another major supporter of this community which WILL piss you off when it happens.

Customer support will make everyone like a vendor. Keep them updated and be honest and you will have no problems.

JoeP also left this community way before you were even a thought in his mind. However, the attitude you have towards him is a great example of why.

He has an attitude himself. As a vendor he has engaged in more than one flamewar. That leads to his own peril.

As stated in my first post... Do it. Take the time to design a product or even setup a "retail" store for us. Get all of the IDs, approvals, loans, connections, credit, websites; everything. Then offer some products and deal with whiny little people like you all day who apparently know so much more than the vendor and "could do SO much better out of their garage so fuck them".

If I wasn't so busy with full-time college and active duty responsibilities maybe I would. You are modifying the MAF signal, which is a piece of cake if you know what causes the cut in the ECU. A great idea would be to make one that interfaced with a wideband and a/f & timing controller. Keep the proper ratios and maybe retard timing a degree or two when you go past cut. All in modification of signals. Could easily be done with a microcontroller and basic circuitry (and R & D time).

Were you even around back when JoeP originally released the "FPR" kit? While that piece was made out of stuff so simple that I'm sure you could whip it out of your garage in an instant, what about the FCD? Well, you say you could do that, too but yet you're still waiting for one with a flashing light? Get real, dude.

I have already stated that I would not get a FCD, so saying what I am waiting for is a waste of time. I think the one with a light that tells you when you pass fuel cut and a switch to turn it off would be a better alternative for the possible users. I also have seen discussions by both Turfburn and Joep, and Turfburn understands WHY things work, while JOEP has knowledge bred by familiarity. I would trust Turfburn's products personally.

To everyone that's said 'screw joe and his stupid valve' and is making their own boost controllers from a Home Depot parts lists, I hope everything works out for you. I, however, am not going to skimp out a few bucks for the huge potential safety issue of a $20,000 car. You're a moron if you do.

I was using this to portray the "quality" of his parts. They are low-quality and thus they are cheap. I have spent over 8 grand and haven't upped the boost on my car yet, so you need to modify your statement if you are referring to me.

That's almost as good as the people who buy racing seats off of eBay because they wanted to save some cash. It's just moronically stupid.

Read above post.


Give it a few months in the current condition you people act. I know at least four of those will be gone, and I know exactly which ones, as I've been in contact with them. Then you'll have to spend the extra time bitching about the subforums instead of calling out our vendors to prove who's penis is larger.

As long as people pay their vendor fees, then let's not allow others to scrutinize them or their parts (or the mods will close the thread). That's part of running a business. Customers are sometimes a bitch to deal with.


If you had purchased the unit itself, you'd realize that JoeP provides one piece of paper including instructions and a warning on it. There are warnings all over the forum about it. I've wrote them myself. However, never have I been in a pissing match over it, which is exactly what you did. You weren't warning, you said something, Joe corrected you and there you were again, right back on his ass.

I said name me three cars that had blown engines that didn't have Joep FCDs on them. Maybe it comes with my line of work, but I tend to look at the problem, analyze the common known factors, and generate a conclusion. When I was going through the blown motor threads I noticed that most of the had Joep's FCD. Just an observation that I decided deserved to be noted.

Let me explain something to you. Do you realize that I can name off the "large" vendors that I've seen on these forums? By large, I mean companies making turbo systems or large components that would be a very expensive investment but would make our cars SO much better.

They have bigger markets to attend to. Take an economics course. This market is best for small vendors trying to get their name out. It is that way whether we a "happy little customers who don't talk back" or if we aren't.

Now do you also realize that I can also subtract the amount of vendors that the attitude received on the forum, their customer contacts, and just the general vibe of this scene, have left us? When I do, I'm left with around 6-7 companies instead of the 12-14 original. Think about that before you reply with a "so, you dont know me *snap* *snap* *snap*" reply.

I will state again that the vendors who are respectful and keep customers up to date are still with us. A lot of those vendors deserved the bad image.

We have a DISCONTINUED CAR. Everyone, not just you, please get this through your head. Whether the vendor is supplying a $3.50 switch or a $7,000 turbo kit, they're all valuable because of that fact. We need all of the help we can get if we want to keep our Protege scene going. Some of you who bought their cars last year just don't get this fact. You think you can feed out all of the immature bullshit you'd give to a Honda scene and expect nothing to happen. You're wrong. The vendors we do have mostly make their money from other people, like I mentioned with MAM before. It'd be EXTREMELY easy for them to say look, we're done with the whining and stupid drama here. Do you not realize this?

I agree. That doesn't mean we have to kiss every vendor's ass. The ones who meet my above criteria I will give the ultimate respect to.

A "safer" FCD? There is no such thing. That's like saying a vendor is building a "safer" turbo kit. A FCD is dangerous, regardless of who makes it or it's bells and whistles. If you think his FCD will be "safer", I urge you to go try it as soon as it comes out. Just don't post a thread about your engine blowing when you do.

Why is there no such thing. I said safer, not SAFE. I know it is dangerous which is why I would never put one on my car. I stated his was safer because it had better monitoring capabilities and wasn't on all the time.

One more thing on this note, I've got my FCD wired on an incabin switch which allows it to be bypassed. If you're so ready to jump up and make one out of your garage, why didn't you think of just adding a switch? Hmm.

Don't and would never get a FCD. If I did get one I would've wired an in-cabin switch (basic). My post was not targeted to mean for the novice.

You could probably also wire a LED in with the proper knowledge to know when it's active.

Very true.

Again, it's all over the forum.

Doesn't mean I don't have the right to discuss it.

I'm so tired of reading these forums and these threads that seem to repeat themselves. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions here, with the exception of the few "gods" who have blown their shit up and have now been forced to rebuild with all kinds of new goodies. It's sad that in order to be a "god" here, you just have to take responsibility intead of taking the car to a dealership and conning them in to fixing your shit.

I agree with you here. Even though my dealership is cool about mods, I do everything myself. I think if you mod your car you should accept the consequences. I didn't buy the car for the warrantee.

Every time I see a blown motor thread or a new problem, it's "take your mods off and take it back". I had to fight and pretty much threaten legal representation when my Mazda dealership failed to put fluid back in the tranny after they fixed a previous issue. Would it have been such a big issue if we didn't have so many people trying to get the best of both worlds, stock warranty and modified car? I doubt it.

My posts had nothing to do with warrantee work, but I can see I allowed you to express something that has been on your chest.

No one accepts responsibility for their own actions, here. We need a warning, we need a light, we need to not have this product offered, we need a better version, we didn't get our supersize. Come on, people. Your decisions affect your life. Deal with that. I swear half of you should be driving that Hello Kitty Protege posted on the forum a while back.

I was saying something with a warning is better than something without. Nothing more. I will accept responsibility for my actions. You are preaching to the wrong person.

I've got 90psi compression in cylinder three. Will you see me running off to the dealership after taking all of my mods off to be sneaky sneaky and get a warranty claim out of it? No. That's stupid, pathetic, and the reason why you people bitch about Mazda not wanting to warranty ANYTHING with this damn car.

Redundant, but again glad you could get it off your chest.

Again, warning about downfalls is one thing and that one thing has been done, many times. IF you didn't know this, you have failed to be observant or read threads. That's not my problem.

I joined in sep 2003 and read for months before making my first post. The fact that there were warnings doesn't mean I can't give warnings. Not everyone reads old threads.

Warning someone of a vendor's known problems is that one thing.
Bitching at the vendor directly to try to prove them wrong or to complain about something that is truly out of their control (eg: daily at ProtegeGarage), is a completely different matter.

Again, I did not start out in a flamewar with Joe. I will have to go back and see why it turned into one. The vendor is just as guilty for engaging in the flamewar. I will say again that good vendors stay clear of these. That's their responsibility.


Then, honestly, you're not part of these forums enough to realize what we've lost. If carbon fiber gas lid covers are more important to everyone here than engine modifications or turbo kits, I'll be looking in to selling my Protege sooner than I thought because it's all downhill from here.

Why don't you educate me? You give me specific vendors that we've lost and why we lost them. 9 times out of 10 it was because of poor customer service that was bitched about. This forum is about the consumer as much as the vendor. BTW, who do you think has bought more parts $$ wise from vendors on this forum? Me or you? I think that's a big factor in keeping them around. In that sense, I have done more than my part.

Finally T3ease, you don't have to worry about me bashing poor vendors with quality parts and good customer service like Joep:rolleyes: anymore. In writing this post I have realized that my GF is right and posting on here is a waste of time. I am training to be a Naval Officer, and to sit here arguing with people I don't know about what is right and wrong on a car forum is something I shouldn't engage in anymore. I will do all of my correspondence when I want to buy parts via PM. I have a beautiful girl and a great job that I should be putting more time into and should have realized that a long time ago.

yessum sir, would you like me to get on my knees and clean your nuts now for you sir? give me a fucking break. You are an asshole to me, I'll be an asshole to you- bottom line. I am not the only one here who has said this. Customers that are decent to me are more than happy with my response. There are times where an email was misinturpreted and things went in the wrong direction, once I realized- I apologized. However even my own mother knows not to approach me with a shitty assed attitude or you'll get one back. I do not toss my respect for people around freely- you have to earn it, sorry. I just told Tease about a quote that goes around another forum I am on quite frequently- "polite moron or knowledgeable asshole- take your pick" If you need your hand held and your ass wiped for you along with your purchase, sorry- not my thing.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

3" downipie (installed), 3" cat back (in garage), 720 CC injectors (in the mail), Headers (in the garagel), Walbro pump (in the mail), Forced performance Green- IN THE MAIL!!! Lets hear all the "it's a WRX, you can't do that" talk AFTER we cross the line......

Sold everything except the full exhaust. Put the up pipe on and it leaks like a bitch at the manifold flange, so I said screw it and am getting a different set of headers that are one piece (up pipe and all)- no more flange leaks!!! I was torn between that or going back to full stock, but I like the performance as it sits and don't wan tto go back to stock :).
Joe

[Captain KRM P5]

and something else that escapes me at the moment.
.

probably the Big Ben intake

[Shadow102]

If i may i would like to add a little bit to this thread. I just recently purchased my MSP on 12/30 and have been real happy with it. Before this though i had a Taurus SHO i mean it is a quick car and handles nothing like the MSP. For over 2 years i have been in the SHO community and on the SHOforum.com over that time the very limited aftermarket we had got even smaller due to alot of vendor bashing. I do agree however some vendors have a hard time getting their stuff together and deserve it. I mena if you guys think the MSP has a hard after market the SHO community was down to about 4-5 major vendors that i know of and at this point there are only 2 who are developing new parts together and that is on their free time. So basically what i am trying to say is try to keep what we have alive because trust me it can get much much worse

[Captain KRM P5]

If i may i would like to add a little bit to this thread. I just recently purchased my MSP on 12/30 and have been real happy with it. Before this though i had a Taurus SHO i mean it is a quick car and handles nothing like the MSP. For over 2 years i have been in the SHO community and on the SHOforum.com over that time the very limited aftermarket we had got even smaller due to alot of vendor bashing. I do agree however some vendors have a hard time getting their stuff together and deserve it. I mena if you guys think the MSP has a hard after market the SHO community was down to about 4-5 major vendors that i know of and at this point there are only 2 who are developing new parts together and that is on their free time. So basically what i am trying to say is try to keep what we have alive because trust me it can get much much worse

good friend of mine owns a SHO and echoes this sentiment as well

[Aricjm15]

I did not see anybody say anything about DaveB, now everybody is crying for his products and he is not going to make them anymore because people were such pansy asses in the past

[girth]

[QUOTE=t3ase][QUOTE=jurgs01]
Finally T3ease, you don't have to worry about me bashing poor vendors with quality parts and good customer service like Joep:rolleyes: anymore. In writing this post I have realized that my GF is right and posting on here is a waste of time. I am training to be a Naval Officer, and to sit here arguing with people I don't know about what is right and wrong on a car forum is something I shouldn't engage in anymore. I will do all of my correspondence when I want to buy parts via PM. I have a beautiful girl and a great job that I should be putting more time into and should have realized that a long time ago.

F*ck that, I agree with your posts! This is a forum to DISCUSS your OPINIONS! If somebody has a problem with that THEY need to grow up. This thread sucks.(flame)

[Super Matty P]

I can't believe no'ones mentioned me yet.....I guess I'm not an actual vendor here so it doesn't count.

DaveB is a machining virtuoso....I know first hand that I'll his products and some of the things he was working on.

[JDM Sam]

The whole deal with the Joe P FCD is the end user who did not know what the hell they were stepping into when they installed the FCD. It's the operator not the product.

The majority of the people here just go by what someone else said is ok to do to their car and ran out and bought the parts and slapped them on w/o knowing what they do and the possible consequences. Joe P's FCS works like a FCD should. Blowing your motor b/c you didnt account it leans out your A/F without supporting mods is your own fucking fault for being a self proclaimed forum tuner.

Slandering Joe P or his products or any vendor does nothing for this community. People who know a thing about cars or two don't rely on aftermarket support. But the majority of the people here do not have access or the know how to fabricate their own mods. So take what you want out of this thread.

There are the people who are serious about their car, the ones who dont half ass their shit and go all out, but then there are the ones who will prob go as far as bolt ons. Joe P's FCS for example is a budget FCD. There are flashier and fancier FCDs. How much do you want to pay? That's just the cost for all the bells and whistles. The problem here is the mentality I want a Ferrari for the price of a Geo. You're not gonna get it. Joe P isn't here to be a charity, he is a businessman. All the vendors here are businessmen/women. Their job is to make money. So especially when the vendors say the protege market isn't very profitable and they still spend the time and money to produce parts for it, we need to learn how to communicate with them in a positive manner instead of straight out blaming them for any fuck ups. It is the end users responsiblity to be informed not the sellers. Simple business law folks.

[Mental Addiction]

I have not read all 8 pages of this thread, but I would like to chime in.
Mental Addiction Motorsports has been around for 3 years and will be around until I decide the fun and the love for the sport is gone.I do this as my HOBBY.I have 3 other guys working for me(this is their ful time job).So people think that this being my hobby is unprofessional or whatever it might be.I am active duty military and am on my last few months(will be almost 8 years when i get out) of the Navy.Once I am finshed I will be headed off to the Police acad.
Most people think Mental Addiction is mainly Mazda or Mustang stuff, well that is far from the truth.90% of our income comes from making products for other companies.We build manifolds/intercoolers,etc for several BIG name companies in the SRT,EVO,Dodge and Mitsh. markets.My first 6-8 months as an AV has been great and most of my customers are great people.My satisfaction comes from seeing my customers happy with their products.What makes me upset is guys that bash them because they are tired of seeing MAM threads started by those happy customers.This makes me a bit upset.Now the last month in the Protege community has been alittle off.I have had more people call that are upset becasue they think my product isn't fitting or they think it wonr' fit.Once they calm down and I go over the instruction steps they see they didn't pay attention or just plain didn't read them.They then realize that the product fits.As for the midpipe, this has been on my mind for the last 3 weeks.I am just about ready to stop selling them because of people not paying attention or listening.One bad thing about the midpipe is that I have several header and catback manufacturers products that the midpipe must fit.If the header is off, my midpipe is off.One header that seems to cause fits is the Reactive.It sits almost 3/4" over and rests on the oil pan.Well this throws the midpipe off.Next is stock hangers and engine mounts.With the midpipe being .5" larger and weighting more(with cat) than stock the stock hangers sag.Then if their motor mounts are bad, the extra .5" from the midpipe will cause it to bang the crossmember.As you can see I'm fighting an uphill battle.So the idea of cancelling the midpipe is in the air right now.We have now sold around 35 midpipes and of those 1 was bad because of the hangers we used then.That customer got a new midpipe no questions asked..I stand behind my products and will make sure they are a quality piece that fits right.I can't do much if their mounts and hangers are no good.


Now for stories, I have many stories that will blow you away.Just when you think you have dealt with everything, something new comes along.Let me tell you about a guy off here who bought rods/pistons from me and got his order on Aug 26th 2004.On Dec 8th 2004 I see I have a chargeback for the amount of $1200.I call up and find out this guy did a chargeback because he said he never got the parts.Well he posts on here and has talked about his Oliver rods and CP pistons and how well his car is running on them..After a long battle with the chargeback he's still fighting..I don't want to go into great detail, but this is an example of people who give everyone else a bad name.

IMO if the vendor has had an order for X-amount of time, lies about shipping it, product is trash then they got what is coming.For people to post bashing a vendor because what they think is wrong or something just plain studip, then a 1-3 day ban should be handed out.If you want to see a board that is out of control with vendor bashing that is just plain uncalled for, go to the SRT forums.Their are guys over their bashing turbo manufacturers because their oil pump died in the car and the turbo is shoot because of it and it's the manufactors fault, or they hookup water lines in the oil side of the tubo and blame the manufactor..One of the BIG SRT4 vendors is heading our of that market because of BS like that.

[Super Matty P]

Beau, my problem was never with you or your products. It was with your "representatives". You happened to "sponsor" the biggest postwhores on the forum. People with 9K+ posts have a tendancy to post about the same topics over and over again and it gets frustrating. I dropped it and moved on...can you?

[Captain KRM P5]

I have not read all 8 pages of this thread, but I would like to chime in.
Mental Addiction Motorsports has been around for 3 years and will be around until I decide the fun and the love for the sport is gone.I do this as my HOBBY.I have 3 other guys working for me(this is their ful time job).So people think that this being my hobby is unprofessional or whatever it might be.I am active duty military and am on my last few months(will be almost 8 years when i get out) of the Navy.Once I am finshed I will be headed off to the Police acad.
Most people think Mental Addiction is mainly Mazda or Mustang stuff, well that is far from the truth.90% of our income comes from making products for other companies.We build manifolds/intercoolers,etc for several BIG name companies in the SRT,EVO,Dodge and Mitsh. markets.My first 6-8 months as an AV has been great and most of my customers are great people.My satisfaction comes from seeing my customers happy with their products.What makes me upset is guys that bash them because they are tired of seeing MAM threads started by those happy customers.This makes me a bit upset.Now the last month in the Protege community has been alittle off.I have had more people call that are upset becasue they think my product isn't fitting or they think it wonr' fit.Once they calm down and I go over the instruction steps they see they didn't pay attention or just plain didn't read them.They then realize that the product fits.As for the midpipe, this has been on my mind for the last 3 weeks.I am just about ready to stop selling them because of people not paying attention or listening.One bad thing about the midpipe is that I have several header and catback manufacturers products that the midpipe must fit.If the header is off, my midpipe is off.One header that seems to cause fits is the Reactive.It sits almost 3/4" over and rests on the oil pan.Well this throws the midpipe off.Next is stock hangers and engine mounts.With the midpipe being .5" larger and weighting more(with cat) than stock the stock hangers sag.Then if their motor mounts are bad, the extra .5" from the midpipe will cause it to bang the crossmember.As you can see I'm fighting an uphill battle.So the idea of cancelling the midpipe is in the air right now.We have now sold around 35 midpipes and of those 1 was bad because of the hangers we used then.That customer got a new midpipe no questions asked..I stand behind my products and will make sure they are a quality piece that fits right.I can't do much if their mounts and hangers are no good.


Now for stories, I have many stories that will blow you away.Just when you think you have dealt with everything, something new comes along.Let me tell you about a guy off here who bought rods/pistons from me and got his order on Aug 26th 2004.On Dec 8th 2004 I see I have a chargeback for the amount of $1200.I call up and find out this guy did a chargeback because he said he never got the parts.Well he posts on here and has talked about his Oliver rods and CP pistons and how well his car is running on them..After a long battle with the chargeback he's still fighting..I don't want to go into great detail, but this is an example of people who give everyone else a bad name.

IMO if the vendor has had an order for X-amount of time, lies about shipping it, product is trash then they got what is coming.For people to post bashing a vendor because what they think is wrong or something just plain studip, then a 1-3 day ban should be handed out.If you want to see a board that is out of control with vendor bashing that is just plain uncalled for, go to the SRT forums.Their are guys over their bashing turbo manufacturers because their oil pump died in the car and the turbo is shoot because of it and it's the manufactors fault, or they hookup water lines in the oil side of the tubo and blame the manufactor..One of the BIG SRT4 vendors is heading our of that market because of BS like that.

excellent post

[Dexter]

I have not read all 8 pages of this thread, but I would like to chime in.
Mental Addiction Motorsports has been around for 3 years and will be around until I decide the fun and the love for the sport is gone.I do this as my HOBBY.I have 3 other guys working for me(this is their ful time job).So people think that this being my hobby is unprofessional or whatever it might be.I am active duty military and am on my last few months(will be almost 8 years when i get out) of the Navy.Once I am finshed I will be headed off to the Police acad.
Most people think Mental Addiction is mainly Mazda or Mustang stuff, well that is far from the truth.90% of our income comes from making products for other companies.We build manifolds/intercoolers,etc for several BIG name companies in the SRT,EVO,Dodge and Mitsh. markets.My first 6-8 months as an AV has been great and most of my customers are great people.My satisfaction comes from seeing my customers happy with their products.What makes me upset is guys that bash them because they are tired of seeing MAM threads started by those happy customers.This makes me a bit upset.Now the last month in the Protege community has been alittle off.I have had more people call that are upset becasue they think my product isn't fitting or they think it wonr' fit.Once they calm down and I go over the instruction steps they see they didn't pay attention or just plain didn't read them.They then realize that the product fits.As for the midpipe, this has been on my mind for the last 3 weeks.I am just about ready to stop selling them because of people not paying attention or listening.One bad thing about the midpipe is that I have several header and catback manufacturers products that the midpipe must fit.If the header is off, my midpipe is off.One header that seems to cause fits is the Reactive.It sits almost 3/4" over and rests on the oil pan.Well this throws the midpipe off.Next is stock hangers and engine mounts.With the midpipe being .5" larger and weighting more(with cat) than stock the stock hangers sag.Then if their motor mounts are bad, the extra .5" from the midpipe will cause it to bang the crossmember.As you can see I'm fighting an uphill battle.So the idea of cancelling the midpipe is in the air right now.We have now sold around 35 midpipes and of those 1 was bad because of the hangers we used then.That customer got a new midpipe no questions asked..I stand behind my products and will make sure they are a quality piece that fits right.I can't do much if their mounts and hangers are no good.


Now for stories, I have many stories that will blow you away.Just when you think you have dealt with everything, something new comes along.Let me tell you about a guy off here who bought rods/pistons from me and got his order on Aug 26th 2004.On Dec 8th 2004 I see I have a chargeback for the amount of $1200.I call up and find out this guy did a chargeback because he said he never got the parts.Well he posts on here and has talked about his Oliver rods and CP pistons and how well his car is running on them..After a long battle with the chargeback he's still fighting..I don't want to go into great detail, but this is an example of people who give everyone else a bad name.

IMO if the vendor has had an order for X-amount of time, lies about shipping it, product is trash then they got what is coming.For people to post bashing a vendor because what they think is wrong or something just plain studip, then a 1-3 day ban should be handed out.If you want to see a board that is out of control with vendor bashing that is just plain uncalled for, go to the SRT forums.Their are guys over their bashing turbo manufacturers because their oil pump died in the car and the turbo is shoot because of it and it's the manufactors fault, or they hookup water lines in the oil side of the tubo and blame the manufactor..One of the BIG SRT4 vendors is heading our of that market because of BS like that.

(bow)

[JD32883]

I havent taken the time to read all of this post, but after reading most of them it really sucks to know people on our community have drove away vendors. I for one got alittle pissed off when i read the thread about ion performance. People bashed and bashed, i cut in to say that i purchased most of my parts from them and that they have great customer service. They mostly do WRX and we should appreciate the time Ion or any company puts into to help our cars go fast and perform better. If it makes a difference THANKYOU TO ALL THE VENDORS WHO SPEND TIME SLAVING UNDER CARS, AND WELDING PARTS TO MAKE OUR MSP BE ALL THEY CAN BE.

[t3ase]

[QUOTE=jurgs01][QUOTE=t3ase]

F*ck that, I agree with your posts! This is a forum to DISCUSS your OPINIONS! If somebody has a problem with that THEY need to grow up. This thread sucks.(flame)
Girth, yet again you're enjoying starting shit for no reason. The point of this post, as I've mentioned 9218484 times now, is not to prevent opinions being discussed but to stop the unneeded bashing.

I won't say that again.

[kwiktsi]

You mean someone here is starting shit for no reason? Unheard of!!! Preposterous!!!!
(gun) (enguard)

[t3ase]

You mean someone here is starting shit for no reason? Unheard of!!! Preposterous!!!!
(gun) (enguard)
(braindead

[Dexter]

I dont see how this is "silencing" or preventing anyone from speaking what they want....

[LinuxRacr]

Look who showed up in this thread. ;)

[mspdfreak]

Okay, I think the point has been made. Now how about closing this sucker?

[t3ase]

I'm still leaving it open to allow comments.

[PhreakV]

I actually went through and read the entire thread and am truly saddened (in the non-girly way of course :D ) by the bullshit that the vendors have had to put up with. I've never truly been hardcore into the forums and used it as a huge information resource and as access to great deals and the like. Now I'm kind of torn as to whether or not I should've been more active (or will be in the future) because if people are truly shitty to some of the amazing vendors on this forum, I may be tempted to either become a raving asshole smiting everyone around me (think Boondock Saints) or just leave in discust (sp?). I'm currently leaning towards smiting simply because while my P5 is gone, I love the community and the desire to do something uncommon. My P5 was the only one like it in the US (from what I could find) and that was amazing when people asked me how I had done something or where I had gotten it. As stated, the vendors on this board are not doing this to make a living, there isn't the volume or markup for one person to make shit at the prices people give us on here. even HiBoost, with a $4k kit, was only doing this as a side project and most of their business was from S America as I understood it (which also made Juan unavailable for 24hr-a-day service, so sorry...). The vendors I've dealt with on here do an amazing job not only getting us prices but in being part of the community too. I've yet to deal with a vendor on here that wasn't part of the community (though I'm sure there are some but I haven't run into any yet). To everyone that's read this far, please don't shit on our vendors unnecessarily; and when necessary do so privately until it reaches a point where it becoming public is a matter of protecting the community from a bad one.

just because someone can make something at home doesn't mean that everyone can or should. I've rebuilt Honda auto trannys for myself and friends for (generally) ~$350 including buying all new parts and can do it in a weekend on most Accords/Civics. does this mean that all transmission shops should just close up their doors? NO. it means that giving my mechanical abilities I can do something most people won't consider doing, that's why there is someone out there selling it. I don't have the time or even want to spend the time to design a CAI for my SpecV or to do the trig/thermo to figure out my header. I can do most anything with metal but would rather spend the $500 to have it done for me and in a pretty package. the ability to create something oneself only means shit if you have the desire and intention of doing it too.

[deckedoutmp5]

dan, i couldnt have said it better my self. all this bullshit on the boards and the lack of real knowledge about the protege world made me get out of it. i sold my kit. and went back to racing street bikes again. sad, very sad... all this is. protege world is basically dead. no one cares about it anymore. peace- trav

[Captain KRM P5]

protege world is basically dead. no one cares about it anymore. peace- trav

i guess mental addiction motorsports, hiboost, and spd racing to name a few are "no one"

[t3ase]

well, if this lame, immature behavior continues they will be "no one"

[II-Savy]

Well they did stop making the Protege....so it would seem at some point it will dry up.

[pdhaudio83]

Beau, my problem was never with you or your products. It was with your "representatives". You happened to "sponsor" the biggest postwhores on the forum. People with 9K+ posts have a tendancy to post about the same topics over and over again and it gets frustrating. I dropped it and moved on...can you?

i suppose you're talking about me.... if you're not please correct me.

[Captain KRM P5]

well, if this lame, immature behavior continues they will be "no one"

no disagreements there

[Dexter]

dan, i couldnt have said it better my self. all this bullshit on the boards and the lack of real knowledge about the protege world made me get out of it. i sold my kit. and went back to racing street bikes again. sad, very sad... all this is. protege world is basically dead. no one cares about it anymore. peace- trav

to be honest i think you left the protege because whatever the fuck you were trying to do wasn't working for you.

[Super Matty P]

i suppose you're talking about me.... if you're not please correct me.

no need to point fingers, but you and about 3 others....

this is a dead issue Beau wanted to bring up so I felt the need to comment about our particular beef. No further need mentioning it. (flame2)

[FSDET]

Well they did stop making the Protege....so it would seem at some point it will dry up.
yes but its still a new car and when no more proteges are being built the value of the car goes down, making them more affordable project cars.

[t3ase]

yes but its still a new car and when no more proteges are being built the value of the car goes down, making them more affordable project cars.
....you don't have a honda.

[pdhaudio83]

no need to point fingers, but you and about 3 others....

this is a dead issue Beau wanted to bring up so I felt the need to comment about our particular beef. No further need mentioning it. (flame2)

when have i mentioned the same issue three times?
i mean, set the record straight. im sick of childish "im mad at him, but i dont want to say why, heeeeheee"

[1sty]

IT HAS BEGUN!

Where the hell did I put my popcorn?

[Super Matty P]

when have i mentioned the same issue three times?
i mean, set the record straight. im sick of childish "im mad at him, but i dont want to say why, heeeeheee"

i have no clue what you're getting at. I think I've always said what it was I don't like about someone....i don't see how this applies.

you particularly haven't mentioned the same topic 3 times in a row....my point was that it's the same 3 things popping up from the 3-5 biggest posters on the forum....there are no less than 20 MAM turbo kit threads all discussing the exact same thing. As someone who keeps a forum clean it irritates me. I made my point and moved on....why is this so hard for you guys?? (shrug)

[PhreakV]

so maybe we shouldn't clutter up a thread about how we need to stop bashing vendors with a conversation that in theory could be bashing the representatives of a vendor. :D

[1sty]

Found it

[Captain KRM P5]

Found it

can i pull up a chair and share? i'll bring sodas

[t3ase]

Please keep this on topic.

[kwiktsi]

IT HAS BEGUN!

Where the hell did I put my popcorn?

this one? :)
Joe

Edit- oops, what a follow up post to "please stay on topic" this ended up being :).

[1sty]

Saved The Smiley, Thanks

[kwiktsi]

Saved The Smiley, Thanks

I figured as hated as I am here, might as well fuel the fire :). No problem.
Joe

[1sty]

I figured as hated as I am here, might as well fuel the fire :). No problem.
Joe

YES, YOU SUCK, YOUR HORRIBLE, AND YOU NEVER DELIVER!

Oh yeah, thanks for getting that MBC to me within 48 hours. (thumb)

[t3ase]

Oh yeah, thanks for getting that MBC to me within 48 hours. (thumb)
And thanks for my MBC, FCD, and FPR that I received within 48 hours, too.

[kwiktsi]

YES, YOU SUCK, YOUR HORRIBLE, AND YOU NEVER DELIVER!

Oh yeah, thanks for getting that MBC to me within 48 hours. (thumb)

48 hours? Man, I fucked up- it was *supposed* to be 48 days!! I PURPOSLEY hold all MSP orders for a minimum one month just to fuck with you guys (poke)
Joe

[toucci]

The way I see it nothing needs to change. If a vendor offers a good product at a good price with good service people will buy it and be happy with it. If a company feels we are giving them a hard time and it's not worth it to them anymore, then they have no place in the market and should leave. Too bad for the community, but that's just economics. We aren't looking to play patty cake with vendors here but rather do business.

[1sty]

48 hours? Man, I fucked up- it was *supposed* to be 48 days!! I PURPOSLEY hold all MSP orders for a minimum one month just to fuck with you guys (poke)
Joe

(lol)

[ChiMSP]

Well I didn't have enough time right now to read all 10 pages... One thing I do to keep the vendors happy is not to jump all over them about a product unless i'm serious about fronting the cash to get the ball rolling. Helping to keep our vendors = putting your money where your mouth is.
***I'm not sure if this was already dicussed... just my 2 cents.

[kwiktsi]

Well I didn't have enough time right now to read all 10 pages... One thing I do to keep the vendors happy is not to jump all over them about a product unless i'm serious about fronting the cash to get the ball rolling. Helping to keep our vendors = putting your money where your mouth is.
***I'm not sure if this was already dicussed... just my 2 cents.

I'm in love with your sig pic:).
Joe

[anarchistchiken]

Well I didn't have enough time right now to read all 10 pages... One thing I do to keep the vendors happy is not to jump all over them about a product unless i'm serious about fronting the cash to get the ball rolling. Helping to keep our vendors = putting your money where your mouth is.
***I'm not sure if this was already dicussed... just my 2 cents.


Do what he says and every single vendor related problem will dissapear.

[ChiMSP]

I'm in love with your sig pic:).
Joe
Joe... your mbc is still going strong!!!

[kwiktsi]

Joe... your mbc is still going strong!!!

I'm in love with your sig pic :).

[kwiktsi]

J/k. Thanks, glad you are happy.
Joe

[JDM Sam]

Well got off the phone with Eibach and they canned the sway bar set they were going to produce for the Proteges and P5.

[mp3josh]

Well got off the phone with Eibach and they canned the sway bar set they were going to produce for the Proteges and P5.
Awesome.....

not. And just to think I got my car because the aftermarket was awesome...

[low_psi]

SWEET! Thanks guys!

:)

[KzA]

I think this is getting a little excessive now...guys, we still have a good aftermarket with good vendors who are here for us and listen to our needs..you act liek everyone got up and left..

Learn to appreciate what we have and we will keep it..bottom line..there isnt much more to be said..

[t3ase]

by the way, jurgs, you were one person more than one vendor has talked to me about.

thanks for playing, though.

[t3ase]

Do what he says and every single vendor related problem will dissapear.
I'm sorry but that's not correct. Someone can drop *cough*$8,000*cough* in parts from vendors and still make them very uneasy about continuing business with us.

[Dexter]

and thats before even touching the boost!

[girth]

The way I see it nothing needs to change. If a vendor offers a good product at a good price with good service people will buy it and be happy with it. If a company feels we are giving them a hard time and it's not worth it to them anymore, then they have no place in the market and should leave. Too bad for the community, but that's just economics. We aren't looking to play patty cake with vendors here but rather do business.

Exactly. Depressing how few people in this thread understand this.

[laracroft]

There will ALWAYS be parts made for the Protege's.. aftermarket or stock. There may only be a handful of places where you can buy the parts, but it's still better to have a few good vendors than to have 1,000 Honda ones. :D And I plan on having my car for the rest of my life. No trading in and no selling it. Eventually people will learn that with as limited a production as they were.... one day... they WILL be worth something or will be considered a "classic". It's not today... but some day they will. Watch. You'll be telling your children... damnit... I REALLY wished I had kept that car. It may not be because these were the best cars in the world.... but eventually after all the crashes, wrecks and deterioration, they will be popular again.

And yeah, thanks to DaveB!!! Not only was he ONE man making a product no one else made... but he did it with one machine and by himself when he had time on the side. AND NOT ONLY THAT.... but he sent a CD to explain how to put it on. (didnt really need to because it was a pretty simple install... but that just shows his willingness to help & be professional about it).

[Captain KRM P5]

.... but he sent a CD to explain how to put it on. (didnt really need to because it was a pretty simple install... but that just shows his willingness to help & be professional about it).

that to me was a really touching and personal way to promote the product. i always liked that

[eting_pro5]

I just think it's worth noting that much of the difficulties in these situations arise from the fact that this is internet-based commerce. As with any political threads, people are much more vocal than they would be in live communication environment. Furthermore, companies dealing with customers through such an informal medium are expected to be more accessible and (it appears) more accountable as a lot more personal information is available on them.

For people to challenge a vendor so agressively through a post or e-mail doesn't surprise me at all; the internet has very few damaging reprecussions for inappropriate behavior. Well using a phone, does bring the consumer and vendor to a more personal and response-friendly medium, it still offers the shield of protection from direct interaction. We all know that it's much easier to assume uncommon characteristics when you're not in front of someone.

For consumers to threaten a lawyer's raping and actually illicitly use a credit card to get back their money, I think the internet has provided them with a false sense of invulnerability for their actions. Also, when dealing with shipping and stocking delays, consumers don't appreciate that they are dealing with a small business that is not Amazon or Best Buy. For people used to the corporate ability to offer a sense of security in the transfer of their personal information and money, a delay from a vendor can rightfully cause a lot of concern.

Basically it all amounts to the idea that selling things on the internet will always be difficult.


Thanks for selling, vendors!

[eting_pro5]

AND NOT ONLY THAT.... but he sent a CD to explain how to put it on. (didnt really need to because it was a pretty simple install... but that just shows his willingness to help & be professional about it).


I think it took longer to watch the video than actually install the rings....hehehe

[laracroft]

I think it took longer to watch the video than actually install the rings....hehehe

lol

And there's no promoting his product if he doesnt make it anymore. Hell, those things are gonna sell like hot cakes on Ebay one of these days for like $200. lol

[Antoine]

The hardest thing is trying to keep everyone at peace (members, mods, vendors, GF's, dogs, cats etc)...It's not a good thing to post your every thought and opinion...think it through before unloading on the community...

The health of this community and others like it is directly related to the health of the Mazda Aftermarket...It's natural for bad vendors to get bitched out never to come back again...the important thing is to keep the GOOD vendors. Immature members will either have to GROW UP or come back in a few years when they have learned how to be mature and respectful...

I'm going to close this thread for now (seems like someone already did) because I hope every will take a step back and realize that we must all keep the peace in order to keep the community…keep the opportunity to enjoy the awesome potential this place has for everyone…everyone who is able to see it and appreciate it…

I will not loose this wonderful community to those who fail to keep the peace!