New Alignment Today

[122 Vega]

The MSP got it's autocross alignment today:

Front Camber: -2.5
Front Caster: 2.9
Front Toe: .10 degrees out (3/16ish)

Rear Camber: -1.1
Rear Toe: .10 degrees in

I used camber bolts and rotated the front strut mount for the caster. My Proxies 4s will be much happier now.

Britt

[xelderx]

The MSP got it's autocross alignment today:

Front Camber: -2.5
Front Caster: 2.9
Front Toe: .10 degrees out (3/16ish)

Rear Camber: -1.1
Rear Toe: .10 degrees in

I used camber bolts and rotated the front strut mount for the caster. My Proxies 4s will be much happier now.

Britt

I was just curious about the toe in on the back. Most of us are using no toe or toe out in the back to get the car to rotate better.

[Tito1]

Hi


This may be a stupid ??, but can these settings be reached on a stock MSP, or does one need aftermarket goodies??


Tito

[xelderx]

Hi


This may be a stupid ??, but can these settings be reached on a stock MSP, or does one need aftermarket goodies??


Tito

The only thing aftermarket that he had was camber bolts for the front. Everything else is done on the stock setup.

[UnNaturalinc]

Where all do you plan on racing at? I'm hoping to go to a few autocross events this season myself. Probably just the PIR parking lot thing they have.

[Tito1]

Man I gotta find someone who knows wtF they're doing. 'Cause I sure don't. I did some AutoX last year, and loved it, but it's hard to be competitive w/out all the tech knowledge.

Slowly but surely I guess.

[xelderx]

Man I gotta find someone who knows wtF they're doing. 'Cause I sure don't. I did some AutoX last year, and loved it, but it's hard to be competitive w/out all the tech knowledge.

Slowly but surely I guess.

Yea...we were all new to it at one point or another. If you have a question just ask. Most of us AutoXers are willing and ready to answer any questions. Most of us have had experience with just about everything possible in AutoXing a Protege.

[TheJohnny]

hey, when adjusting the caster.... question:

which way is stock caster on stock MSP struts... which way would I rotate the strut (location of dot) to get differnt caster settings?

I think my caster is off right now but don't know stock location of strut for 0 caster. If anyone has a pic of location of dots for stock caster let me know..thanks.

[122 Vega]

I don't think you're going to get 0 caster at any position of the dot. For better handling you should place it forward and outboard. I think stock was back and outborad, but I'm never going back to stock specs, the car handles too well now.

Ben, I will be at all events this year, most are at PIR, but we have a new site up in Packwood, Washington that is nicer. Would be cool to see another Protege out there but you'd be in Street Mod. You can see the preliminary schedule at www.oregonregionsolo2.com (http://www.oregonregionsolo2.com)


I did some AutoX last year, and loved it, but it's hard to be competitive w/out all the tech knowledge.

There are a lot of good drivers that don't know anything about cars. If you know too much, you can be dangerous. You'll see guys that are out ajusting shocks and tire pressure and seat position and all this crap between every run. I think they are doing themselves a diservice. What you should do is get as much seat time as you can. You should set your car up and leave it for awhile until you can start to feel what needs to be done.

For someone just starting out, I would use my alignment specs but with a bit of toe out on the rear instead of toe in. That will help the car to rotate more. Last year on stock wheels and stock alignment I ran 40 psi on all 4 corners. This will probably change this year, maybe a little less.

Most importantly, don't go out there thinking you'll be competitive. It simply doesn't happen. It takes time to get good. So concentrate on having fun with it. If there is someone in your class that you run similar times with (even if you two are 5th and 6th every event) make a small competition out of it, just focus on trying to beat that one person. Then before you know it, you'll be battling with the 3rd, 2nd and then maybe 1st place finishers.

Britt

[TheJohnny]

i have the dots setup with one facing forward and out and the other facing rear and out..... i couldn't remember how they went. Someone help.... going to start a new thread for help....

[xelderx]

Look at the top of each strut tower. You should be able to see that the round part of the upper strut perch is not centered in the hole in the strut tower. Depending on which way you rotate the upper perch the clearence inside the strut tower hole will change. The desired setup will be for the least amount of clearence to be on the inside back corners.. Like you want the top of the struts to point toward the center of the dash. I hope that is clear enough.

[122 Vega]

Place them forward and outboard, and you should get an aglignment after making any changes.

Britt

[TheJohnny]

going to do it this weekend,.... thanks guys..... one of them is wrong. I'll fix it on saturday..thanks again.

[TheJohnny]

by placing them forward and outboard that should give me positive caster........ which means the strut as far forward as possible..... but xelderx says that the strut should be facing the dash, which would mean negative caster........

[CustomMSP]

The closer to the dash the more + caster you have

Looking at the driver side strut: \= negative caster, |= 0 caster, /= positive caster

[TheJohnny]

The closer to the dash the more + caster you have

Looking at the driver side strut: \= negative caster, |= 0 caster, /= positive caster

according to Discount Tires website the further forward the top of the strut the more positive and vice versa for the back....

http://www.discounttire.com/dtc/brochure/info/helpDeskAlignment.jsp

But as long as we have one thing the same, and that is to move the strut to the farthest rear position as possible... which would be dot's facing out and to the rear of car right..... on both sides (out and back)

[122 Vega]

But the dot forward will make the strut lean back. It is kind of confusing, but if you loosen everything and then press down on the strut and turn it around you can see how it works.

Britt

[122 Vega]

The Discount Tire thing is backwards. Think of caster in camber type terms. As you turn in, you want the outside tire leaning in right? So if the top of the strut is back, then as you turn the tire remains in negative camber. If the strut is forward, you will gain positive camber on the outside tire, causing it to roll over and loose traction.

Britt

[TheJohnny]

The Discount Tire thing is backwards. Think of caster in camber type terms. As you turn in, you want the outside tire leaning in right? So if the top of the strut is back, then as you turn the tire remains in negative camber. If the strut is forward, you will gain positive camber on the outside tire, causing it to roll over and loose traction.

Britt

It's like thinking about the strust like the forks on a streetbike. YOu wouldn't want them facing backwards towards you....

ahhh, yes... much knowledge you have, speak clearly now I see.

ok, so on saturday I'll take the four nuts off the strut and put it as far back towards the center as possible. I see the logic now! (godown)

[CustomMSP]

Once I get home tonight I'll take a pic for you of how mine are setup. I flipped them around for max caster a while ago. You can compare to your then.

[TheJohnny]

if I'm right, max caster really only comes into play when you corner right, normal driving (pretty much straight ahead driving) should feel no difference right?

Thanks, looking forward to the pics that way I'm good to go. Getting new tires, Falken FK-451's, and an alignement soon after that.

[122 Vega]

Well, caster can have an effect on straight line stability, but not as much as toe does. You will have and increased steering effort (not bad) and the car will want to go straight, but turn in will be faster, you'll see with sudden lane changes! BTW did you know that the 451 has the Azenis tread compound underneath? If you shave them, or wear them down to 4/32" you will have basically the same tire...

Britt

[TheJohnny]

... BTW did you know that the 451 has the Azenis tread compound underneath? If you shave them, or wear them down to 4/32" you will have basically the same tire...
Britt

DIfferent thread design but same compound huh?

What do you recommend the ST-115 D1 series, or the FK-451. I'm looking for a good tire that isn't super mega sticky like the RT-215, but something nice for sprited drive now and then???

[CustomMSP]

Here are the pics...

[122 Vega]

DIfferent thread design but same compound huh?


well anything above 4/32" is a different higher mileage compound, it's when you get down low it's the same.

Britt

[TheJohnny]

thanks so much for the pics... going to fix it really quick tonight.....

[CustomMSP]

So what's the outcome/impression?

[TheJohnny]

fixed it last night in the rain.....now that I finally look at it I was like, "Johnny your an idiot for not seeing that before." Usually I notice the little things but never even gave that a second thought. Car seems to not pull to the left anymore now. The car was aligned before I ever lowered the car, then now that I have the stock springs back it the ride should be right on, well it feels like its right on. Thanks for all the help you guys, sincerely appreciated.

[low_psi]

Another project I need to complete... I'm running ZERO toe all around and the car feels really nice, super grippy and rotates soo incredibly well. I may add a lil toe out in the front when I get it realigned this week, but I may just wait until the next autoX to decide. Thoughts on toe settings?