Road and Track test of the MZ6 0-60

[Autox MSP]

Mazdaspeed6 with 274bhp and 0-60 in 5.5 sec. This months issue.

[Super Matty P]

uh, I read a recent mag and they claimed 6.2s. They even went as far as to mention that this was NOT a sti/evo contendor but a Legacy GT rival...and actually compared to the GT's 6.5s it did well....

What sucks is that a 6S 5spd will out run it.....for $6K less.

[REMillers]

Hmm little hard to swallow given its weight, power and powerband of the engine. Don't make much sense for the 5.5 sec.....hmmmm

[Da 6]

what rpm was the clutch dumped at? :)

[Micah]

uh, I read a recent mag and they claimed 6.2s. They even went as far as to mention that this was NOT a sti/evo contendor but a Legacy GT rival...and actually compared to the GT's 6.5s it did well....

What sucks is that a 6S 5spd will out run it.....for $6K less.
I hear ya - but I can't imagine that Mazda NA would actually try to sell a Mazdaspeed version of the 6 that didn't outpace the lower models in every area.

I'm not saying I expect a major jump in performance - but come on - something.

Then again - the facts are - AWD. It's gonna make the car a tad bit heavy. This and the Mustang GT are the two cars I'm thinking of picking up next year if I decide to wait on the house (god forbid I should save money). The third option is buying a used Merkur XR4Ti from MPNick built and tuned to roughly 270RWHP.

[Da 6]

reviews said that AWD setup still alowed the car to "plow"

[Captain KRM P5]

Mazdaspeed6 with 274bhp and 0-60 in 5.5 sec. This months issue.
i'll have to read this...that'd be pretty damn nice were it true

[Super Matty P]

sorry, I need to correct my initial post.

Mazda themselves CLAIMED a 0-62mph in 6.6s......this is according to SCC mag pg. 28

wow, what garbage. I remember telling anarchistchiken if this car came out here I'd shell out the cash for it....I'm going to have to retract that statement.

[Captain KRM P5]

you lost me matty, whats so garbage about it

[Pretzellogic]

I think matt is a little discouraged with its performance.

[Super Matty P]

whats garbage about it....$30K for a car that is slower than it's V6 $23K equal....no proper intercooler, too heavy, suspension not up to "mazdaspeed" standards, etc..

for the record I LOVE the interior. I think it's beautiful. It's a crying shame though that the car costs as much as MANY other faster/nicer/more proven cars. Normally I would choose the mazda product because of it's "fun factor" and handling prowess but this car is NOT it.

[Da 6]

I don't think they shudda added as much shit to it as they did. I know we were pissed that dsc hids and navi wasn't an option but damn...I can press the unlock button on keyfob and insert a key in ingition myself. yes since you mentioned it...why did they use the top mount george forman intercooker? Front mount is more functional and peacockish and if they wanted to hide it just make it black...I'm sorry maybe I can't see how air flowing thru the radator is gonna cool that thing...

[seanmcsean]

yeah, the lack of FMIC confuses me too.. the interheater doesn't do anything for me

[Da 6]

great when camping...could grill a couple burgers...thats a feature the evo and sti don't have :)

[Captain KRM P5]

whats garbage about it....$30K for a car that is slower than it's V6 $23K equal.....
why does mazda keep touting it in thier promotional materials as "the fastest production sedan mazda has ever produced."? until a final production model hits our shores and has been run by a magazine with some pens put to paper I'm reserving judgement. as for the intercooler, mazda has gone the top mount route before with the 86-92 rx-7s. all the more reason for an aftermarket outfit to make a killer FMIC kit, right? :D

sorry, really trying to be positive about a car that I really am excited about.

[Da 6]

fastes production sedan..how fast is mazdaspeed RX-8 again?

[Super Matty P]

Ken, I was quoting numbers given to magazines by MAZDA....these aren't estimates...these are manufacturers claims. Judging by the past Mazda is known to OVERRATE their cars also.

Da6, the RX8 is considered a coupe by almost everyone.

[obender66]

uh, I read a recent mag and they claimed 6.2s. They even went as far as to mention that this was NOT a sti/evo contendor but a Legacy GT rival...and actually compared to the GT's 6.5s it did well....

What sucks is that a 6S 5spd will out run it.....for $6K less.

So 6S 5 speed is FASTER than 5.5 sec 0-60? Give me a break!Stock V6 is in high 7 sec and you need to pur shitload of money in exchange for torque steer and void warranty.Then look at 80-120 km/h(50-75 mph) numbers-they are just a few tenths off of that of M3 and previous gen M5.
Mazda claimed numbers were 10 sec for stock Protege5, magazines got 8.3 out of it. Looks like Mazda learned it's lesson and gives more conservative estimates.

[Super Matty P]

obender you should read ALL posts in a thread before commenting. You obviously missed my correction a little later.

[jaman]

great when camping...could grill a couple burgers...thats a feature the evo and sti don't have :)
Doesn't the STi also have a top-mount intercooler?

As for the price, if your US $ didn't drop 30% this year perhaps the car wouldn't cost $30k.

[Mallard]

I'm sorry maybe I can't see how air flowing thru the radator is gonna cool that thing...
The top half of the grill opening is ducted straight to the intercooler. It's not going through a radiator first.

All the "tests" published in the magazines this month were not instrumented. Mazda let them drive the car for a few laps to get a feel for it, but no actual measurements were taken. All the performance numbers are from Mazda's press release, not independant tests.

[obender66]

obender you should read ALL posts in a thread before commenting. You obviously missed my correction a little later.

Wasn't sure which part of your post you're were referring to. It's all good now :)

[Newf]

some of you guys are fucking hilarious.

1. Don't say shit until the final car comes out.....until then, shut up
2. If you don't know wtf your talking about, which is made clear by some of the previous posts...shut up.

To the thread starter, thanks for the info, I must get a copy of this when I can.

[Mazda3]

some of you guys are fucking hilarious.

1. Don't say shit until the final car comes out.....until then, shut up
2. If you don't know wtf your talking about, which is made clear by some of the previous posts...shut up.

To the thread starter, thanks for the info, I must get a copy of this when I can.
I have to agree with Newf.

The thread starter stated that R & T tested the MS6 at 5.5sec 0-60. Everyone in this thread is disagreeing. So you people are either stating that he is a liar and R & T didn't test the car or that R & T don't know how to test a car?

HILARIOUS

[Super Matty P]

All I'm stating is that I read the stated article AND a SCC mag article and the SCC mag said that MAZDA THEMSELVES rate the car at 6.5s.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong but if that MS6 only runs 0-60mph in 6.5s I'd be VERY pissed off.

[NJP5Guy]

i agree that comments about its performance shouldnt be made until its in the hands of the testers(ie r&d, C&D). but with that amount of power it should be running at least a mid 14sec 1/4. if it doesnt then i'd be surprised and very disappointed.

[Da 6]

Doesn't the STi also have a top-mount intercooler?Yes but it's also equipped with a Functional hood scoop right above it.


The top half of the grill opening is ducted straight to the intercooler. It's not going through a radiator first. I'm looking at this big as lower grille that is screaming FMIC and then this lil ass honda accord grille. WHY?



Ok so what you guys are saying is wait for the other reviews and magazies to say this car outruns the targeted compedaters and won't plow thru turns...

[crossbow]

The topic starter said the 0-60 was 5.5 seconds, then corrected it to say 6.2 seconds. Which is about what it should be given the weight, power, and additional drivetrain loss of an AWD system.

Magazines have clocked the standard 6s mtx at 6.7 0-60 (best time) but generally close to low 7's 0-60. Modified 6s mtx's have gotten low 6's, and 14.x 1/4's, with one actually bumping into high 13's (not posted) NA.

The MPS is a good car, but is hampered by its incredible curb weight (3589 lbs base model). Its a GT car, not a racer, and should be treated as such. Legacy competition, not SRT, redline, cobalt, STi, WRX, or Evo competition.

The most depressing thing I find about the MPS 6 is the fact that even though its a GT car, the rear seats are unable to be put down (supposedly), greatly hampering its utility. If mazda was interested in making this a GT car, why isn't it a hatchback with the ability to put down the rear seats? That would have been far more competitive then the additional "rear stiffening" caused by bolting the rear seats in place.

[Da 6]

body was upgraded in 120 places guess the rear seats was one of them...

Da6, the RX8 is considered a coupe by almost everyone.Sorry I missed the reply earlier...I see it as a 4 door..Mazda's attempt to get the older RX-7 owners who now have familes back into the Rotary scene. It worked and everyone wants them. My Q is what happened when they got together and made the speed already family sedan?

[Mazda3]

The topic starter said the 0-60 was 5.5 seconds, then corrected it to say 6.2 seconds.

The topic starter has not changed his information, it still states 0-60 5.5sec.

Can someone confirm if this info is true? The only real question here is did R & T test the car and is this the correct time? Everything else is speculation thats been debated in 100 threads.

[crossbow]

I don't think any of the mags have actually done reviews...they're all the first look things still. Motortrend's(dec issue I think) had the MPS in it as well, but they didn't want to quote times as it wasn't on their track. Basically the same old same old...

"Not competitive against Evo/Sti, Great GT, understeers, no power on oversteer, tendancy to oversteer from throttle lifts"

Then of course they also got the curb weight completely wrong. It seems these are all the reviews from mazda allowing the various manufacturers to drive the car on "their" track...and not actual reviews from the respective mags...yet. This of course means any spec's/claims aren't done with the repective timing equipment on the mags respective testing tracks and should be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm waiting till we see the comparitive article vs the legacy GT and TSX with the cool sidecutout views, and the acceleration graphs.

[Super Matty P]

again, the only thing I'm saying is that numbers I quoted were given to the magazines by MAZDA THEMSELVES....this isn't estimates by reviewers or tested numbers.

MS6 0-62mph (100kmph) in 6.6s as claimed by Mazda in this month's SCC mag

[Mazda3]

again, the only thing I'm saying is that numbers I quoted were given to the magazines by MAZDA THEMSELVES....this isn't estimates by reviewers or tested numbers.

MS6 0-62mph (100kmph) in 6.6s as claimed by Mazda in this month's SCC magYes, we all know these numbers.

Just wondering if maybe R & T was the first to actually test the car themselves. Possibly a new issue that subscribers recieve first that isn't on the shelves yet?

The thread starter has almost 1400 posts, so I doubt he would post complete BS info.

[crossbow]

I'm a subscriber and haven't seen the new mag yet. I still got the F430 Ferrari issue...mmmmm.

I don't think you usually see the reviews persay till the car's are in full production. Which as you know is now quite awhile for the US :(. You'll know its a real review when they got specs and graphs up the wazzo...if its a little blurb that says blah blah 0-60 of insert random time here, and nothing else (aka no 1/4 no braking distance, no skidpad/saloom) its just one of those damn'd preview things again.

Like motortrends damned Z06 article. Just like computer hardware industry, paper releases up the wazzo!

[Slider]

whats garbage about it....$30K for a car that is slower than it's V6 $23K equal....no proper intercooler, too heavy, suspension not up to "mazdaspeed" standards, etc..

for the record I LOVE the interior. I think it's beautiful. It's a crying shame though that the car costs as much as MANY other faster/nicer/more proven cars. Normally I would choose the mazda product because of it's "fun factor" and handling prowess but this car is NOT it.

I don't think they had a car enthusiast like you in mind when they designed and built the 6.

[Super Matty P]

maybe not Slider but when I think of "MAZDASPEED" I think of racing heritage and amazingly agile cars.....this new MS6 sounds more like a M6GT than a "mazdaspeed" product.

[Da 6]

What he said...

[JOS3]

i will reserve judgement until the US-spec mazdaspeed6 is released and tested.

[Captain KRM P5]

i will reserve judgement until the US-spec mazdaspeed6 is released and tested.
translation - until i con the dealer into giving me the keys so that i may summarily abuse one on a test drive

[JOS3]

disclaimer: comments made by captain krm p5 are in no way a reflection of the thoughts or opinions expressed by protejay5.

[Captain KRM P5]

disclaimer: comments made by captain krm p5 are in no way a reflection of the thoughts or opinions expressed by protejay5.
disclaimer : yes they are and protejay5 knows and worships the fact

[SVTJayC]

A more interesting question is...what happens when Ford finishes development of the 3.5 Duratec. It is replacing the 3.0 in the 500, the Freestyle, the Futura (Mazda 6 chassis based) and even the 4.0 in the stang. Rumors are at least 250hp and possibly upwards of 260-270 with some tuning (Rumored to be in the Ford Fusion ST/SVT) Could even be more, who knows. I know it's going to be different dimensions than the 3.0, but there is certainly the possibility given the 6's competitors that it will find its way into the 6. What happens to the speed version then?

[Da 6]

how many years was msp produced?

[Slider]

maybe not Slider but when I think of "MAZDASPEED" I think of racing heritage and amazingly agile cars.....this new MS6 sounds more like a M6GT than a "mazdaspeed" product.

Yea, I agree, they should reserve the MAZDASPEED badge for cars that deserve it.

[crossbow]

Car and Driver just posted an article too. Its the same damn thing. Another little preview. None of these mags have the car, its all "Mazda let us drive it on a track, and this is what we think".

C&D quotes 0-60 of 6.2. Not that it matters any.

[Da 6]

so nobody has driven the car on their own track and when is it being released to public again?

[wongpres]

Typically, new cars of all makes are given media testdrives prior to release (the time between these media testdrives and when the vehicle arrives to dealerships varies).

Mazda, being a relatively small player, typically does global media events (i.e. reporters from all over the world go to a single media event). In the case of the Mazdaspeed6, the media testdrive took place a little over a month ago at a racetrack in Japan. What isn't published is that Mazda combined the Mazdaspeed6 event with sessions regarding their future direction/vehicles/etc... (again, because Mazda is a small player, they try to make the best use of each of these media events).

The vehicles used in that Mazdaspeed6 press event were pre-production models (they had some JDM-spec, euro-spec, N. American-spec versions of the vehicle). So you probably won't see a Mazdaspeed6 on say Road & Track's own test track until the production vehicle is released and MazdaUSA, or Mazda Canada, or whichever distributer, has some in their testfleets to give to the press for testing purposes. And for the Mazdaspeed6, this won't be until spring at the earliest.

[crossbow]

Da6,

No idea on actual public delivery anymore. Even mazda isn't 100% on ship dates. With the fire, and china's massive absorbtion of all things steel related, delays are abundant and no longer predictable.

[turbonium959]

I do not know what you guys are complaining about, but you do have to understand that Mazdaspeed in North America is not the same as Japan. It has been the same story with all Mazdaspeed cars in NA. Protege had a small bump in power, Miata got a small bump too. The 6 however, got more than 100 bhp out of the 4 cylinder engine. So, so far, this the biggest bump in power for any Mazda car in NA. And its so much more sportier, and classier then a normal 6 sedan. So the V-6 model is almost as quick, what do you care for? Most people never reach the same times as the magazines do when they test-drive the cars. If you are not going to buy the car, then dont say anything. But if you do , and want to choose between V-6 and 4-turbo, then figure what the car is going to be used for? This is obviously not going to be a family hauler anymore. But other than Legacy GT, there is no other in its class to offer as much fun and comfort at the same time. MPS6's suspension is oriented for sportier driving, so as the interior, so as everything. So unless you are going to race the two cars, what is the reason to doubt MPS6 for being slow? If you only care for fun factor, then get an STi, EVO, SRT-4. If the 6 is not fast enough for you, then buy an EVO.

[Da 6]

ok...if the Mazdaspeed 6 isn't intended to be "driven" whats the point of it's existance?

*edit* reason speed miatas power was detuned is cause it overpowered the chassis...

[crossbow]

what is the reason to doubt MPS6 for being slow?It weighs 3600 lbs. Or roughly 550 more then a 6i mtx, or around 350 more then a 6s mtx.

[Da 6]

turboed vehicles (especualy 4cyl's) till they hit full spool are gona be slow off the line. If the weights are given were dead on then thats why we run down the street waving flags screaming B.S. Yes I said something earlier about a 6i outrunning an evo in autox. it did hapen regardells of why you do or don't beleve me.

[Captain KRM P5]

ok...if the Mazdaspeed 6 isn't intended to be "driven" whats the point of it's existance?

*edit* reason speed miatas power was detuned is cause it overpowered the chassis...
tell that to the guys at www.flyinmiata.com (http://www.flyinmiata.com) who routinely have cars with 250whp or more

[RobMP5]

ok...if the Mazdaspeed 6 isn't intended to be "driven" whats the point of it's existance?

*edit* reason speed miatas power was detuned is cause it overpowered the chassis...
I think that Mazda is using the MS6 to "test the waters," if this drivetrain delivers performance close to the numbers in press releases, actual tests or whatever in a 6, just think of what it would be like if they put that engine in a Mazdaspeed3...if that happens you can just forget about and STIs, EVOs, or maybe even an M3. Just my guess, but I'm definately keeping my fingers crossed.

[Super Matty P]

the MS3 will be FWD turbo 2.3L....220hp.

[Notorious]

Got my road and track.

0-60 5.5 seconds

[SVTJayC]

the MS3 will be FWD turbo 2.3L....220hp.

I dunno. The new European Focus ST (Same C1 Chassis), looks like it is getting a Volvo drivetrain. Turbo 5 cyl, pushing 230hp. With 300hp and AWD in the RS version. It would seemingly make more sense to do that with the 3, since it also shares the platform with the S40.

[Mazda3]

Got my road and track.

0-60 5.5 seconds
WHOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

What do you think crossbow?

Some serious torque to move that Yacht to 60 in 5.5sec!!!

What was 1/4 mile time and MPH?

How long after the subscribers get the mag does it hit the shelves?

[Notorious]

^^ I'll try to get some stats for you guys tonight when I get home. Like QM times and speeds. Along with handling stats. I don't have a scanner at home to scan it but I'll try to post the important stuff.

[crossbow]

The car tested was pre-production...as already mentioned by wrongpress. All these reviews are nothing more then glorified press releasing. As you've said time and time again, we'll all be waiting until the mags actually see some real cars and get them in-house to do actual testing, instead of at sanctioned mazda events for the press.

[timba24]

The new European Focus ST
most important thing you said european

[Mazda3]

The car tested was pre-production...as already mentioned by wrongpress. All these reviews are nothing more then glorified press releasing. As you've said time and time again, we'll all be waiting until the mags actually see some real cars and get them in-house to do actual testing, instead of at sanctioned mazda events for the press.

I don't care if it was pre-production. Did they or did they not time the car at 5.5sec?

Can someone scan the article, the mag isn't on the shelves yet where I'm at.

[crossbow]

I just read the Car and Driver article. Its somewhat negative. Though they felt it was faster then mazda's 0-60 quote, they felt the car wasn't very nimble, and its primary trait was understeer. (Even with AWD helping out)

I kid you not, they said mazda should think about making the Z in Zoom-Zoom lowercase. =/

I think the MPS is greatly hampered by its wheel selection size. It really needs some 8 inch wide rims with 245/40 or 45 rubber. 215/40/18 or (215/45/18 whatever it is) is much too thin for the weight of this vehicle and its really showing in the handling and cornering of the car.

[Da 6]

so the 18 inch rims aren't even 8 inch wide? anyone have weights of them yet or is that still to early too?

[Mazda3]

Any chance of someone scanning the Road and Track article?

[seanmcsean]

I think the C&D article made some valid points though. Basically nobody has had the chance to get their hads on a test car and they flat out said that. I thought the whole tone of the article was just "we took the car for six laps around the track and this is what we have to say based on that.. we're waiting to give our final opinion on this once we get our hands on one."

The last line was kinda snarky though. I didn't really appreciate that.

[PR5Matt]

The third option is buying a used Merkur XR4Ti from MPNick built and tuned to roughly 270RWHP.
Bad idea dude...

[crossbow]

I really didn't understand the last line. The sentence before it was very praising...and then they told mazda to change the Z to a z. I mean thats really insulting I think, at least to mazda.

And I do agree, these are all preview articles...though understeer has come up in most of them...though that could just be the drivers inexperience with a particular track...it does take a few laps to get your bearings and get warmed up, so right when they were getting the hang of things, they gotta pit.

[Da 6]

eh...did they ever say that the 6s plow? I have a vid(that I can't decode and load here) from MT or C&D where they mention that the mishelin polits were terrific! I'l review the vid again...

[crossbow]

Here is the C&D short blurb (once again, not a review, only the end of the article tests the car really).

http://www.3dluvr.com/crossbow/incoming/Mazda/page1.jpg
http://www.3dluvr.com/crossbow/incoming/Mazda/page2.jpg

Here is the "quoted" article that says 0-60 in 5.5 seconds from R&T. As usual with such arguments, the important bit was left out. You know, the bit about the speed not being tested, and just something that "mazda said". R&T has been disappointing me greatly lately with their misquotes on various vehicles.

http://www.3dluvr.com/crossbow/incoming/Mazda/page3.jpg

Even though the article was press release candy covered goodness, they also point out the excessive understeer bias. This definitely isn't a track car, just a relatively quick Grand Tourer which fits about dead smack in the middle of all the competition. Not enough utility to be as useful as a hatch, not enough luxury as a G35, not enough performance as an evo...but dead smack inbetween all of them in regards to its overall place.

[Super Matty P]

These are the scans from MotorTrend and SCC mag.



you're welcome.

[Mazda3]

These are the scans from MotorTrend and SCC mag.



you're welcome.

Thanks for the scans guys!!

The R & T quote of 5.5sec 0-60 makes you wonder if they mis-quoted or if someone from Mazda told them something they weren't supposed to.

My sources at Mazda have said that the 6.6sec 0-60 is conservative on purpose. I personally think the 0-60 will be under 6sec even if it is 3600lbs. My sources also indicated that a MS6 would be released to the press after the Toronto autoshow in February. Which means if the test it in Feb. we won't see any times in print until April at the earliest. Unless they release one in the U.S. sooner.

[Da 6]

article I read at friends(same as scanned above) said 3500lbs

I wonder how the self sensing snow setting works?

[wongpres]

Here's MazdaUSA's specs & features sheet on the Mazdaspeed6 (weight is listed):

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/specs_features/veh_specs_MS6.pdf

And although I've posted the pricing press release, here's the pretty PDF pricing sheet for US-spec:

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/pricing_update/2006_MS6_pricing_update.pdf

[Da 6]

shit the rims are 7 wide! RX-8 rims might prive better results if you decide to stay 18's

[crossbow]

Ya thats what we've been discussion da6 :). The wheels/tire combo for the 6 is too thin for its curb weight, which is probably why all the reviews are quoting understeer as the car's primary trait.

This of course is easily solved with aftermarket wheels/tires...which should be one of the first mods that anyone gets for this car...especially since no one seems to like the look of the stock rims anyway!

[Mikey444]

I got a european car magazine, they are saying it is very quick to start slipping on the front end of the car, no doubt the weight. 260 to the wheels, 0-100 km/h in 6.6 seconds, they are not bitching a lot of the weight but hint it lacks torque for the engine size with a turbo.

[obender66]

I got a european car magazine, they are saying it is very quick to start slipping on the front end of the car, no doubt the weight. 260 to the wheels, 0-100 km/h in 6.6 seconds, they are not bitching a lot of the weight but hint it lacks torque for the engine size with a turbo.


That's another example of journalist bias. STI has 300 lb ft out of 2.5 or 120 lb/ft per liter. Did anybody complain that it lacks torque for engine size with turbo?NO!
MSP6 280/2.3 has 121.7, which is MORE than STI output per liter.....but these wankers don't get it...

[crossbow]

I don't understand why they didn't say the MPS didn't have enough torque...thats like the whole point of the motor. Lots of low end power which trails off in the upper rpms. Maybe they got to drive the car after everyone else thrashed the living hell outta it :).

[Da 6]

so it was lower case "z" by the time it got to them?