End all Protege Transmission Thread. [Archive]

BlkZoomZoom

12-22-2004, 09:04 PM

I had my parts guys look into the difference between the MSP and P5 transmissions. After tearing mine apart to do the differential I found several differences between this one and other Protege tranny's I have taken apart. Several people have asked me on different occasions what the differences were and I told them purely on what I saw from mine.... Well guess what, I was wrong. Sort of.

If you have a P5 with a build date AFTER 2/14/ 2002. Then you have the exact same transmission that is in the MSP except the Limited Slip Differential. That is the ONLY difference.

If you have a P5 with a build date BEFORE 2/14/2002. Then you have all the weak parts still. You have a different MAIN shaft, 3rd. gear, 4th. gear, all different synchros, different shims, shift selector forks, hubs. etc....

You Cannot buy a Transmission through Mazda with the LSD installed, You would have to buy a P5 transmission and install a LSD into it.

When this information came to light to fellow techs and I it makes total sense. Last year as a shop removed probably 20-30 Protege transmissions, this year we have done 3... and they were all 02' or older.

I hope this helps someone looking for this information

pdhaudio83

12-22-2004, 09:07 PM

interesting. damn. im screwed.

RyanJayG

12-22-2004, 09:08 PM

lol all us mp3'ers are.... but never fear, I have plans. first I got to source a second tranny.... so it might as well be a 2003 model

pdhaudio83

12-22-2004, 09:14 PM

never fear... you have plans for me too or something? :p

Mr. Win

12-22-2004, 09:18 PM

now tell us how much HP it can hold.

mp5jeff

12-22-2004, 09:21 PM

glad i got one from a newer protege haha..

bonesmp5

12-22-2004, 09:30 PM

mine is an 03 -- but is there some where to check on the car for a born on date :)

Mr. Win

12-22-2004, 09:52 PM

02.5 mean they have be sent back from the factory with all the upgrades... diffrent cupholders etc. 03s got all the prior plus sub, etc.

its not budwieser i dont theres a born on date.

Replica

12-22-2004, 09:53 PM

My P5 is a 2002. Wonder if I got the crap tranny...I shift it pretty hard

ddogg777

12-22-2004, 10:19 PM

Just look at your sticker on the side of the door for build date.

Focus

12-22-2004, 10:33 PM

BlkZoomZoom

12-22-2004, 10:38 PM

The outcome was I never took a Protege transmission apart that was in a car built after 2/14/02. They are the same as the MSP.

That first post wasn't clear?

Focus

12-22-2004, 10:38 PM

The outcome was I never took a Protege transmission apart that was in a car built after 2/14/02. They are the same as the MSP.

That first post wasn't clear?
Your differential?

BlkZoomZoom

12-22-2004, 10:41 PM

except my transmission.

huh?

My differential broke, a couple of times...

Focus

12-22-2004, 10:47 PM

except my transmission.

huh?

My differential broke, a couple of times...
You said in your first post that you were taking it apart to do your differential. How did that turn out ?

BlkZoomZoom

12-22-2004, 10:59 PM

oh....lol.

That was over the summer. I broke 2 within 4k miles. The first one I put in I told my service manager it was gonna break (saw a nasty stress crack potential in the casting), so that one was part warrientied.

I asked the parts guys about it yesterday because I got a few pm's from people asking me about the tranny differences.

Focus

12-22-2004, 11:00 PM

BlkZoomZoom

12-22-2004, 11:03 PM

oh, lol. man I was confused for a second too.

I can tell you it broke in the same manner as everyone else's. I bet welding as described many times will help alot.

mp3moose

12-22-2004, 11:39 PM

damn mp3 tranny.

Hughes412

12-23-2004, 12:05 AM

I was going to ask this question about the differance in tranis. Now is it the same trany in the LX sedans? That is, is the LX sedan transmition the good one?

RyanJayG

12-23-2004, 12:09 AM

seeing as you have a 2003 there is a very good chance you do

acidbbg

12-23-2004, 12:36 AM

Uh Oh..damn 2002...i alwazy thought my 1st-2nd shift was worst than a couple of other protege/p5's/msp i have driven..

Chas

lasermp5

12-23-2004, 12:38 AM

w00t! 03 represent!!!

Installshield 2

12-23-2004, 02:58 AM

Great info man...and this sucks...

ddogg777

12-23-2004, 11:54 AM

It's a good thing I bought a 2003.5 MSP tranny to swap into my P5....WOO WOO!!

toucci

12-23-2004, 09:27 PM

thanks for the good news! (hippy)

BlkZoomZoom

12-23-2004, 09:30 PM

I have a feeling some people hate me and some people love me for this info.

mp5jeff

12-23-2004, 10:02 PM

rofl...i thinkeveryone should appreciate it, because now they know which tranny they have, and the "limits" per say...

Installshield 2

12-23-2004, 10:22 PM

Well I be staying NA, and the built engine makes just around 155lb/ft measured at the flywheel...so I am not worried about snapping it from torque alone...but 90% of the boxes that popped were in more or less stock proteges...

oh well...Just another excuse to build a dog box...

TurfBurn

12-31-2004, 01:05 AM

Good thing I plan on having an extra tranny around... guess we'll see how long an 01 tranny lasts on 400 hp :)

But having ordered the newer parts for my tranny the difference in the synchros and the forks are damn near negligible. I can't see the gears being different themselves as they ratios are the same so how you would you judge the appearance of those??? I'm not doubting, just asking. Too many threads have been started about differences in trannies to later find out there was NO difference at all. I know the 1-2 fork is different, but there is no difference on the 3-4 fork. The synchros don't appear any different either unless they are stress relieved. Otherwise they look identical...

EDIT: Placing part numbers in my posts to make them easier to find:
Synchros: GC011726Y
Speedo Gear: G501-17-341A
LockNuts: F520-17-628 and F521-17-628A
Oil Seals: F003-27-238B
Bearings: G5R0-27-350B
LSD: GS01-27-190A
Forks: G501-17-40YA and GC01-17-40XA

Keywords: Tranny part numbers synchro bearing number transmission upgrade MSP LSD

TurfBurn

12-31-2004, 01:08 AM

I also don't believe ANYONE has spun a shaft or stripped a gear other than a couple gears being stripped by the WC cars.

Axles will matter more before the tranny I think... But watch me eat my words this summer ;).

Captain KRM P5

12-31-2004, 01:12 AM

the transmission from the four cylinder 626 will bolt in and supposedly has much tougher innards than ours does

TurfBurn

12-31-2004, 01:17 AM

The MP3's have the G5M-R transmission... the Protege's and MSP's are all supposed to have the G15M transmission... SO... which tranny is in the 626? I was under the impression that they had the G5M transmission...

And did I mention NO ONE has spun a shaft or shorn a gear yet? LOL.

TurfBurn

12-31-2004, 01:18 AM

Just checked it. Found specs on the 2002 626 with the 2.0L motor in it... G5M 5 speed.. same as the MP3 has.

Captain KRM P5

12-31-2004, 01:20 AM

Just checked it. Found specs on the 2002 626 with the 2.0L motor in it... G5M 5 speed.. same as the MP3 has.
supposedly the forks and synchros are of stronger stuff than what our wee lil rides have to them

TurfBurn

12-31-2004, 01:25 AM

supposedly the forks and synchros are of stronger stuff than what our wee lil rides have to themI have a set of the new forks in my garage. They are revised... but NOT in the area where they break... so unless it is changing the loading on the fork it won't do anything for the types of breakage we have seen on these forums.

I've seen the synchros as well first hand. Compared them right next to each other.. no difference visible between the "revised" synchro and the old ones. Same number of teeth, same tooth size, same shoulder height etc... no visible difference. I have my tranny out and sitting on my garage floor right now. So I can tear it down and compare it all again for you guys if you want.

But the one weird thing is that the MP3's have a G5M-R tranny in them, but the other protege's have a G15. Saw it stamped right on my tranny that it was different, and on Little Beavis's too... both of us have G5M-R stamps on our trannies.

wagonwhatmp5

12-31-2004, 01:25 AM

my car was manufactured in late 02 and i have the auto stick does tht mena i have no chnce of have the good tranny ? does it only go for 5 spds?

TurfBurn

12-31-2004, 01:27 AM

we are discussing the 5 spds... the autos have different issues ;). So you are safe on what we are talking about... totally different type of gearing in the autos.

TXMazdaSpeeder

12-31-2004, 01:36 AM

lol all us mp3'ers are.... but never fear, I have plans. first I got to source a second tranny.... so it might as well be a 2003 model
to bad mazda put a 04 p5 tranny in mine (second)

twilightprotege

12-31-2004, 01:39 AM

what the difference between the G5M and the G15M?

TurfBurn

12-31-2004, 01:42 AM

OK Now I get it. Was hoping to get info on strengthening.
Here you go man. Pictures is worth 1000 words

TurfBurn

12-31-2004, 01:43 AM

what the difference between the G5M and the G15M?
That is the million dollar question... there is also a G25 out there somewhere used in some Mazda but I'm not sure what... and based off of that came the G35 according to some net info I've seen, and that is used the in the 6i's and the Mazda 3's.

TurfBurn

12-31-2004, 01:51 AM

From the Protege FAQ:
G5M-R:
<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 width=400 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=80>Used with

</TD><TD vAlign=top width=80>BP-ZE (MY90-91)

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">BP-ZE (<BIG>∞</BIG> Infini)

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Type

</TD><TD vAlign=top>5MT, FWD

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">5MT, FWD

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>1st gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>3.307:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">3.307:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>2nd gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>1.833:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">1.833:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>3rd gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>1.310:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">1.310:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>4th gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>1.030:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">0.970:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>5th gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>0.795:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">0.755:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Final drive

</TD><TD vAlign=top>4.105:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">4.388:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Reverse

</TD><TD vAlign=top>3.166:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">3.166:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Differential

</TD><TD vAlign=top>open

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">viscous LSD

</TD></TR><TR><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">Shift mechanism

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">remote, rod actuation

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">remote, rod actuation</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

and

G15M-R
<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 width=400 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="50%">Used with

</TD><TD vAlign=top>FS-DE, FS-DET

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Type

</TD><TD vAlign=top>5MT, FWD

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>1st gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>3.307:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>2nd gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>1.842:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>3rd gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>1.310:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>4th gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>0.970:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>5th gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>0.755:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Final Drive

</TD><TD vAlign=top>4.105:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Reverse

</TD><TD vAlign=top>3.166:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Differential

</TD><TD vAlign=top>open, 2 way LSD in FS-DET

</TD></TR><TR><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">Shift mechanism

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">remote, rod actuation

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

twilightprotege

12-31-2004, 03:55 AM

how could the g5m be used on the mp3 then? you've got me a bit worried coz i ordered a fly and clutch from rr-racing and should be arriving shortly, and if there are different trans in the us-spec cars, chances are mine is different too!

where are the stamps on the trans?

TurfBurn

12-31-2004, 11:44 AM

All the G series transmissions are essentially swappable from my understanding... just different bell housing to mate to the right motors. Your flywheel should be golden regardless.

I think the stamp was just behind the motor mount. I'll go look when I get back out in the garage today (an hour or so)

PaulMP3

01-01-2005, 04:19 PM

the g5m is a piece.

I have had my fair share of tranny problems, all when stock. Since they fixed it, it has been holding strong. Not the smoothest though.

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 04:31 PM

The stamp is actually a sticker that is on the back side of the transmission housing itself. It's a white sticker about 2" x 2.5" and should have your tranny code on there.

I've had no problems with my G5M. It's less notchy than the one in my brother's Mazdaspeed. So dunno! But obviously transmissions are one of the points of "concern" for all of us on here. Hopefully I'll have new gear options for us soonish, and Beau I guess is working on billet forks... so between those two things the trannies should be plenty beefy.

low_psi

01-01-2005, 06:39 PM

Thanks for the info, you broke a lot of hearts.

How much do you think a shop would charge to finish welding a MSP LSD?

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 06:45 PM

I still don't completely rule out that they made some improvement possibly, but they aren't anything big or obvious. There are new part numbers... they may have simply upgraded tooling or upgraded quality control to get things to be better. But in general if someone needs a new tranny it won't hurt to try and get one from 2003 or later!

As far as the MSP LSD welding like I had done. It will cost less than 200 bucks. Mine cost me about 160 bucks from a GT Porsche Racing company. Just needs to be tig welded by someone who is pretty good. Then you'll be all set. It is also very important that they clean everything thoroughly!

Later,

Steve

BlkZoomZoom

01-01-2005, 06:50 PM

They have made improvements. The synchros are improved, the shift forks are improved. If you don't believe it then explain why I haven't had to tear any down after middle of 02' build date. Also explain when we re-build the 02' and older trannies we install the new part number parts and they never come back (especially the synchros).
Just because you can't see the imporvements means nothing (no offense, I didn't really see the differences either.)

cable43

01-01-2005, 06:53 PM

BlkZoomZoom, do you know if you can buy just the LSD from the factory? or do you have to find one used?

BlkZoomZoom

01-01-2005, 06:55 PM

You can buy them seperate. They used to be cheap. (around 350$). The price has jumped to around 650$.

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 06:56 PM

I already stated that the 1-2 fork is different. Keep in mind I HAVE the parts. I'm saying the differences in the others is negligible.

Also as far as replacing the parts... that is just plane statistical distribution. Weaknesses and manufacturing defects will fall out in the first 12-24 months... then after that you start getting outliers. So if they had any kind of manufacturing defect it completely accounts for what you are seeing. I've worked in reliability and I'm a mechanical engineer, so I'm used to seeing those kind of failure trends.

But further to the point, a lot of the failures were from the fact that people shifted poorly. There is NO reason to snap the actuating end of the shift fork unless you are shifting it poorly. Should it be stronger? Obviously it should... but is it really the fault of the part... no.

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 06:58 PM

Here is the difference in the 1-2 fork. Also the collar that goes around the control shaft the fork is on is also taller/longer. But those are the only differences there. the 3-4 fork showed no dimensional differences.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19134

BlkZoomZoom

01-01-2005, 07:01 PM

Trust me were still doing plenty of 3rd gear shifting problems lol. Whats up with the blue stuff.

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 07:02 PM

You can buy them seperate. They used to be cheap. (around 350$). The price has jumped to around 650$.
call Mazdaspeed of Houston (www.mazdaformance.com (http://www.mazdaformance.com)) or Mazda Stuff as they offer good discounts (even cheaper then mazdamotorsports).

You need the LSD and the following:

2 axles seals
2 bearings
Speedo gear (if you have a non-abs vehicle)

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 07:02 PM

Trust me were still doing plenty of 3rd gear shifting problems lol. Whats up with the blue stuff.Shockproof tranmsission fluid. Helped a LOT.

As far as the 3rd gear thing that fits with what I can see from the parts as well.

The synchros is the big thing... what the heck is different with them if anything. there is no visual difference and all that really matters on them is the shoulder and the dog teeth on them... no differences there that I could see... so :D hence my skepticism on those parts. I know the part numbers are different, and you are seeing a different failure rate that could be a manufacturing thing, or a design thing.... so yeah... it's still a question.

BlkZoomZoom

01-01-2005, 07:04 PM

man that stuff looks like it smells nasty.

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 07:05 PM

man that stuff looks like it smells nasty.
smells better than stock fluid for sure! But yeah it's nasty.. it clings to everything... that tranny sat for a couple days empty and was still that covered.

updated my post above too.

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 07:06 PM

I'm trying to find my part numbers lists... I have the full set of numbers you need for the LSD changeover around somewhere...

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 07:11 PM

Ha! found it:

1-Speedo Gear: G501-17-341A $9.19
1-Transmission Lock Nut: F520-17-628 $11.96
1-Transmission Lock Nut: F521-17-628A $11.14
2-Oil Seal: F003-27-238B $4.46
2-Bearings for LSD: G5R0-27-350B $21.15

LSD Itself: GS01-27-190A $448.91

Upgraded Forks:
G501-17-40YA
and
GC01-17-40XA

Keywords so people find this when they search:
tranny part numbers MSP LSD limited slip differential shift fork upgraded transmission seals

xelderx

01-01-2005, 07:12 PM

I'm trying to find my part numbers lists... I have the full set of numbers you need for the LSD changeover around somewhere...
I need those #'s just to double check myself. I'll have to look and see if I have the old tranny though. I bought mine in July of 2002 so it could go either way.

BlkZoomZoom

01-01-2005, 07:13 PM

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 07:13 PM

look above you ;) LOL. well at least on the computer screen in the thread... I didn't write them on your ceiling while you weren't looking just yet.

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 07:15 PM

Truthfully I didn't see any difference either. We have called tech. line about it and they told us it is the material and the heat treatment? But again they may be blowing smoke up our arses and not know the differences. Before the updated synchros came out it only took another 20k after replacment to start showing signs of wearing down again. I personally can think of 2 that I did that have over 35k after installation of the updated synchros that are still going strong.
A heat treatment would make a ton of sense. So if that's what they are telling you that'd be a good reason. The material is hard to tell from the eye. The coloring was the same but that means about just shy of nothing :D. So if they are telling you heat treatment and you are seeing wear differences then that will matter... Guess I'll order those and toss them in the tranny since it is out... I just hate having to disassemble the gear towers...

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 07:16 PM

Maybe this thread will finally be the end all thread so we can put all the bloody tranny questions to bed! LOL.

BlkZoomZoom

01-01-2005, 07:17 PM

lol. Take them all apart then toss it in a box and shake it up. Then try re-assembling it. (thats what my "mentor" did to me the first time I dissassembled a tranny.)

xelderx

01-01-2005, 07:23 PM

BlkZoomZoom

01-01-2005, 07:25 PM

I have the complete list of part number differences and prices etc. However it is a few pages long.

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 07:30 PM

That list above is just the parts for doing the LSD swap. The prices are the Mazdaformance.com prices you get when ordering from the "internet" (I just call them and tell them I heard about them from the forums/net and that covers it).

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 07:32 PM

Any way for you to get technical drawings of parts?? That'd be a HUGE bonus. I need real specific dimensions of the gears.

Focus

01-01-2005, 07:33 PM

Any way for you to get technical drawings of parts?? That'd be a HUGE bonus. I need real specific dimensions of the gears.
Who can do that ? I will be taking apart my tranny to weld the LSD up in about a week or two.

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 07:41 PM

I was wondering if blkzoomzoom could get those... I can take measurements myself, but getting the technical drawings from Mazda would obviously be a lot easier and better.

BlkZoomZoom

01-01-2005, 08:03 PM

I don't think I have access to any of that info.

low_psi

01-01-2005, 08:05 PM

As far as the MSP LSD welding like I had done. It will cost less than 200 bucks. Mine cost me about 160 bucks from a GT Porsche Racing company. Just needs to be tig welded by someone who is pretty good. Then you'll be all set. It is also very important that they clean everything thoroughly!
awesome. I just need the balls to tear into the tranny now...

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 08:22 PM

was worth a try! :)

I don't think I have access to any of that info.

TurfBurn

01-01-2005, 08:23 PM

awesome. I just need the balls to tear into the tranny now...
If you do it and have an problems just PM me and I'll do anything I can to lend a hand!

twilightprotege

01-02-2005, 02:20 AM

hey turf i got under the car and had a look, i can find the sticker, but no G### anywhere! the only thing which looked half like any code was "MY" (confused) ???

TurfBurn

01-02-2005, 11:16 AM

my sticker is all fubared with oil so I can't tell... I wonder if we saw it on the inside then... damn it. There is one more sticker that is on the black end cap that may have a code on it. I know it was really plain and obvious when we saw the stamping/sticker.

TurfBurn

01-02-2005, 11:43 AM

oh... and you should see 2 stickers. One on the black cap and a larger one on a flat spot on the transmission. It's on the same side and so forth as where the driver side half shaft is going into the transmission. It's about at that level up on the tranny too.

twilightprotege

01-03-2005, 01:07 AM

yeah i saw that sticker too... same as the trans sticker

TurfBurn

01-03-2005, 06:39 PM

hmm.. it was clear as day when we saw it.. so now I have to figure out where the hell it was!

twilightprotege

01-03-2005, 06:55 PM

found it last night. G5MY

it was really small behind a wire. i saw it when i had the battery and battery tray out.

TurfBurn

01-03-2005, 08:04 PM

good! I'm not losing my mind :)

solid_snake

01-03-2005, 09:00 PM

Can anyone tell me if the 1999 Protege LX Auto transmission has an separate Control module or if is the same Engine Control Unit, if it does can you tell me where it is located

TurfBurn

01-04-2005, 10:03 AM

I'm about 75% sure that it is in the ECU module. If it is located in the same place it is under a plate that is under the passenger's feet.

solid_snake

01-04-2005, 11:33 PM

Thanks, I need to know because my O/D light flashes from time to time, but the transmission shifts like a new one, I think as they are electronically-controlled, the Control Module(s) may have problems.

Focus

01-12-2005, 01:44 PM

Here is another issue to look at. I found this on my primary shaft of my transmission. ( Taking it apart to weld the LSD )

http://www.mazdaspd.com/images/suspension/HPIM0098.JPG

peepsalot

01-12-2005, 02:45 PM

I have a question, my first to second gear transition grinds sometimes. I already have the bronzeoil bushings, kartboy bushings, and redline tranny fluid, but it still happens every once in a while. That sound makes me cringe like nothing else in this world, so my question is what part of the tranny is being damaged every time this happens, and how bad is it?

TurfBurn

01-12-2005, 03:18 PM

peepsalot

01-12-2005, 03:26 PM

Yes you are damaging dog teeth every time you grind a gear. It's not the end of the world, and it isn't going to lead to immediate failure... BUT it means you are stressign the forks more than they should and you'll eventually snap a fork actuator because of the stress... Just take the time to make sure you get all the way into that gear before letting out and you should get away without the grinding. sounds like you are "missing" or "shorting" that shift from time to time (likely from the notchy feel of the 1-2).

Focus, can't see that picture from work here.. but I'm looking forward to getting home to see what you have there.... and one of these days I'll get around to working with you and that contact on those solid chro-moly axles :)

I think you are misunderstanding my problem slightly. It doesn't grind after I let out the clutch, it grinds when I have the clutch stomped down to the floor, and it just doesn't want to go into second gear. I usually have to put it in neutral, let the clutch out, then try again. This seems to happen more often when shifting in high revs, I don't understand how you draggers do it without constantly grinding like mine. I know how to shift properly, but sometimes it just doesn't work like it should.
I don't know much about shifter forks, etc but is it possible that mine is bent and causing it to not want to go into position? Is someone making an aftermarket fork for us, i thought I saw it somewhere. What would the purpose of this be? Would this get rid of the notchiness and help against grinding?

TurfBurn

01-12-2005, 03:53 PM

I'mt hinking you may have a worn synchro then. That would also cause that problem i believe.

Beau said he was going to make Billet forks... but I haven't seen or heard anything recently. Mazda did release a slightly improved 1-2 fork though... not sure if you car would have it or not.. but it should I think. The fork will not change the notchiness at all..

BlkZoomZoom

01-12-2005, 09:26 PM

Yeah it sounds like a worn/abused synchro. Soon it will be like my rx-7's tranny, in which you have to beat it into 2nd.

RodVette

01-13-2005, 02:42 PM

we are discussing the 5 spds... the autos have different issues ;). So you are safe on what we are talking about... totally different type of gearing in the autos.

I have an automatic w/auto stick. Exactly what kind of ISSUES are you reffering to??

TurfBurn

01-13-2005, 04:15 PM

the issues being things like overheating the fluid, slipping on higher boost, how to make them hold moer power etc. I don't know of any specific reliability issues at this point.. but I don't pay too much attention to auto threads unfortunately.. sorry I'm not of more help!

twilightprotege

03-03-2005, 10:40 PM

bumpidy bump

the mazdaspeed lsd - i've heard that it's possible it has a different number (28) of teeth on the axle compared to the G5M transmission axles. can anyone confirm or deny this?

TurfBurn

03-04-2005, 12:56 AM

I'll count them... but my car has a G5M-R in it I'm quite sure and no problems on the LSD and axles. But I can at least count what I have on my MP3 for splines without a problem.. I'll have that for you this weekend.

Later!

twilightprotege

03-04-2005, 01:01 AM

cool thanks mate

TurfBurn

03-05-2005, 10:52 PM

I did the count.. unless I didn't do it right 3 times in a row I got 29 splines.

twilightprotege

03-06-2005, 05:53 PM

thanks!

TurfBurn

03-06-2005, 06:34 PM

was it a match for you?

twilightprotege

03-06-2005, 10:28 PM

dunno yet - will be finding out shortly hopefully

glyph

03-06-2005, 11:05 PM

I have a F25M-R transmission with my 99 ES 1.8L, and I am officially starting my research on an LSD after I put in my turbo. Nothing like being able to put the power down. In any case, what is available for my model year and transmission?

yella

03-07-2005, 01:18 AM

.... explains why i lost the clutch and tranny out of my 2002 P5 within 9 months. And than after they warrantied the tranny, and not the clutch there were no problems. But to be on the safe side I put a ACT H/D street clutch with a 9 lb flywheel in. What a grabbing difference that made.

ROB-80E

03-07-2005, 06:34 AM

was it a match for you?
Not a match for me. (sad2) That's on both sides of the diff is it mate?

TurfBurn

03-07-2005, 09:35 AM

Not a match for me. (sad2) That's on both sides of the diff is it mate?

I counted the splines from the passenger side jackshaft... I can double check the driver side halfshaft tomorrow for you.

Thanks!

Steve

ROB-80E

03-07-2005, 05:38 PM

You're probably doing it right, but it's the raised spline count we're after, not the pits.

Both of us are very confused over a 29 spline count.

TurfBurn

03-07-2005, 06:01 PM

Yep.. was counting ridges not pits... I'll count it again.. I was confused by it as well... I was tired as hell so I counted it 3 times and got the same thing every time.. I thought it should have been 30 or 28.. but not 29.. but dunno! I'll photo it for you too and that mayhelp.

Later,

Steve

ddogg777

03-07-2005, 06:32 PM

Shouldn't there always be the same number of hills and valleys? If there wasn't, two valleys (or ridges) would touch each other at the end of the count.

glyph

03-07-2005, 08:09 PM

no help for me and my 99?

ROB-80E

03-08-2005, 06:13 AM

Shouldn't there always be the same number of hills and valleys? If there wasn't, two valleys (or ridges) would touch each other at the end of the count.
yep that's right. Generally easier to mark your first ridge and count round so you know where you started.

Thanks again for all your effort on this one steve....appreciated. ;)

TurfBurn

03-08-2005, 07:42 AM

No problem! I should have the pictures for you tonight.

Later,

Steve

glyph

03-08-2005, 10:36 AM

TurfBurn, a response, please? Even if it's to say buzz off.

TurfBurn

03-08-2005, 10:50 AM

Glyph... not too much of an idea... take a look aroudn though and see if you can find the FAQ that may have the info you need.

Sorry I hadn't seen your question before!

Kooldino

03-08-2005, 11:30 AM

Awaiting pics!

glyph

03-08-2005, 10:22 PM

For those that just maybe are interested. I found differentials at corksport.com for $1392 for the 1.6 and 1.8 at http://tinyurl.com/69b7a

It popped into my brain that i had seen it at corksport before

The quaife catalog is available at www.quaifeamerica.com

TurfBurn

03-08-2005, 10:44 PM

It looks like I miscounted... I recounted and I got 28 today.. so dunno.. .here are the pics.. knock yourself out recounting them!

Later.

Steve

glyph

03-08-2005, 11:10 PM

yep 28 on both by my expert countsmanship

Kooldino

03-09-2005, 01:57 AM

I got 28 too, but I only have 10 fingers to count on, so take it at that.

(10)

ROB-80E

03-09-2005, 04:28 AM

(bowdown)

(cool) (headbang) (mj) (nana) (yippy) (drinks) (alright) (dance)

I think that sums it up. :D

TurfBurn

03-09-2005, 08:50 AM

I take it that it is a match? :)

PR5Matt

03-09-2005, 09:32 AM

How long do the stock clutches last? It feels weak to begin with, and I am an aggressive driver.

Kooldino

03-09-2005, 10:04 AM

How long do the stock clutches last? It feels weak to begin with, and I am an aggressive driver.

Depends on a milliion variables. But mostly, how you drive it and how much power you have.

Shameless Plug - I have a stock clutch for sale with 440 miles on it if you're interested.

PR5Matt

03-09-2005, 11:13 AM

Just wondering what evryone's experience was. Thanks!

glyph

03-09-2005, 07:49 PM

i've had mine for 83K with no slippage. It is starting to get a little sticky lately, I believe. Could just need a fluid replacement. I am not an easy going driver, either.

glyph

03-09-2005, 08:25 PM

What I got back from corksport regarding their 1.6/1.8 differential:

Hello

This LSD if for the F series transmission used in the 99-02 models with the 1.6 and the 1.8. It will work in earlier F series transmissions as well.

Thanks
Derrick

TurfBurn

03-10-2005, 12:00 PM

I realized we hadn't put up most of the part numbers in this thread for the main tranny parts... so here are a few:

Synchros: GC011726Y
Speedo Gear: G501-17-341A
LockNuts: F520-17-628 and F521-17-628A
Oil Seals: F003-27-238B
Bearings: G5R0-27-350B
LSD: GS01-27-190A
Forks: G501-17-40YA and GC01-17-40XA

Keywords: Tranny part numbers synchro bearing number transmission upgrade MSP LSD

Probably can't have these in too many places as that just makes them all the easier to find when needed.

inis

03-18-2005, 12:08 PM

I was wondering if anyone had any pics of the difference's in the tranny's. I'm curious as to the difference in the main shalf, and syncro's is.

Thanks,
Jarred
inis@kctuners.com

TurfBurn

03-20-2005, 12:21 AM

There are pics of the internals of the tranny on here somewhere for my tranny install... so you'd just need to locate that!

Later,

Steve

Maxx Mazda

02-26-2007, 04:48 PM

Sorry, thought I'd jump in here before Edwin does. All 2.0L Protege's came with the G15M-R tranny. No one has a G5M-R.

glyph

02-26-2007, 06:01 PM

2 year old thread, TheMan would have jumped in by now, I imagine.

justhavnfun

12-11-2007, 08:04 PM

2 year old thread, TheMan would have jumped in by now, I imagine.

cool!

niky

06-03-2009, 03:05 AM

subbin. And bump. The shift fork part numbers are a life-saver!

Alamo1

08-13-2009, 07:01 PM

Sub...

glyph

08-14-2009, 12:19 AM

funny you revived this. Wasn't long after I posted the 83k comment that the transmission let go. Had a rebuild by AAMCO... Been working ever since, but the gears are more sticky than they used to be. Still, I drive it hard with a turbo at 7psi (stock internals) and when they replaced the tranny I threw in a Stage 2 clutch.

TWISFM

08-14-2009, 12:21 AM

sub for later use..

XoX1de

12-19-2009, 12:19 PM

blaineog

12-31-2009, 09:05 PM

ok guys I found some interesting information about these transmission and shreddin 3rd gear

http://users.tpg.com.au/tgrandja/images/Articles/4wd_gearbox_solution.htm

The info is based on someone who did rally driving with 323gtx awd, which have a similary gearbox than ours.

It seems the main problem is the bearing, the bearing sleeve can slip and rotate in the bearing groove, which wears out the case (caused by sideload). more wear = more play within the primary and secondary shaft. Please read the link to understand my explaination.

I've read the thread and there is a lot of really good info there.
Its explains the problem i've been having to a Tee. So now I'd like to know where I can get this fix, and solve my problem. 270ftlb of torque should not be destroying this many 3 rd gears (3 in 3 months).

Kooldino

01-02-2010, 02:34 AM

Doesn't PAR have a solution for the bearing sleeve caps? I could have sworn they did...

XoX1de

01-23-2010, 06:47 PM

Doesn't PAR have a solution for the bearing sleeve caps? I could have sworn they did...

yes they do have them but it requires machining on the casing.

bluemp301

01-28-2010, 09:21 PM

subbin for later

Tarmac Terrorist

02-05-2010, 03:09 AM

Does anyone know if I will be safe with a stock MSP ECU and boost my car with the Factory Tranny?
My car is an 02 Model so i'd imagine the manufacturing date is before the revisions came out...
I don't drive overly agressive often... and my tranny shows no signs of weakness other than shifting from 2nd to 3rd the odd time...

Maxx Mazda

02-05-2010, 01:12 PM

How much are you boosting?

Tarmac Terrorist

02-05-2010, 01:52 PM

How much are you boosting?
8 PSI to start...
Or whatever the factory boost setting is...
I've got a line on a P5 Parts car, if I can get it for the right price i'll be swapping the interior over to the LX as well as doing the 5-Bolt conversion etc...

MSP608

02-24-2010, 12:25 PM

Anyone have a source to transmissions? I'm in need of one.

glyph

02-24-2010, 02:05 PM

i went to AAMCO when mine died. I had them put in a nice clutch while they were at it ;)

they have a decent warranty

blaineog

02-27-2010, 11:07 AM

yes they do have them but it requires machining on the casing.

How long, does it take to get the par 3rd gear and bearing support from Crossover Auto Performance.

MAZDA_SPEED

03-14-2010, 01:13 AM

Sub, good info

Jeezus

03-16-2010, 10:02 AM

Anyone else having 3rd gear popping out? Mine does that around 2.5kRPM with like 35% load. More prone to it when the trans is cold than when it is warm, but still pops out. Does it occasionally.

niky

03-17-2010, 02:07 AM

Goodbye synchro.

Happened to me, too after a bad thrash.

markmdz89hatch

04-06-2010, 03:45 PM

Anyone else having 3rd gear popping out? Mine does that around 2.5kRPM with like 35% load. More prone to it when the trans is cold than when it is warm, but still pops out. Does it occasionally.

Mine's gone. It's been gone since about 100k (at 128k now). It's to the point where I just hold it in 3rd for the few seconds I'm ever in it. Lately, it feels like there's nothing left to it though, so sometimes I hit 3rd and get nada so I have to clutch, neutral, back to 3rd and hopefully catch enough to go. ...been skipping 3rd lately when I could.

...and since about 85-90k, my 2nd gear synchro is not doing so well. Many many times, especially at slow/low rpm shifts to 2nd (from 1st) I have to double-clutch to get it into gear.

I'm just really annoyed about it though because I bought this car at 25k bone stock. It's still bone stock. ...and I do drive aggressively but don't grind my gears and don't rev it even close to red (usually shift [when driving aggressively] at about 4.5-5k). Still have the original clutch that still bites good and hard.

I just have a real mental block with having to rebuild/replace my tranny before the damn clutch even goes. Since when should anyone worry about losing a tranny before a clutch? WTF!

Oh, and for arguments sake (as though it wasn't predictable) it's an '02 ES. What the hell are my options now?

MAZDA_SPEED

04-06-2010, 03:47 PM

Transmissions usually last much longer then the factory clutch. Idk, Maybe you broke it.

markmdz89hatch

04-06-2010, 04:39 PM

Transmissions usually last much longer then the factory clutch. Idk, Maybe you broke it.

well it's definitely broken, so you might be right. ...it's busted.

MAZDA_SPEED

04-06-2010, 04:44 PM

Sorry to hear that.

markmdz89hatch

04-06-2010, 04:47 PM

Sorry to hear that.

me too. lol.

...i'm now wondering what others have to say about their tranny woe's too.

burntgamer

04-06-2010, 07:54 PM

markmdz89hatch

04-06-2010, 08:29 PM

dude a tranny for our ES is around $6-800 and a piece of cake to put in, I'm a complete tuner noob and took mine out and put a performance flywheel and clutch in in under a few hours, don't fret my man, go find a decent priced one and by some beers for your buddies and rip that fucker out

don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the size of the job, as I'm no stranger to tuning at all, but just that at 128k I should not have a spent 3rd gear.

But yeah, beer and pizza is a great way to get a few other wrench turners at the house helping out. ...just should save the mass consumption of berrr 'til after the job is done. Been there, made that mistake before. ...btw, not using assembly lube on rod bearings is an important step you don't want to forget. (sadbanana)

glyph

04-07-2010, 12:13 AM

I had AAMCO do it, and I had them put in a Spec 2 clutch (I paid for it separately) for $1000.

MAZDA_SPEED

04-07-2010, 12:56 AM

I pulled mine and took it apart two times. It's not to hard.

burntgamer

04-07-2010, 08:25 AM

don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the size of the job, as I'm no stranger to tuning at all, but just that at 128k I should not have a spent 3rd gear.

But yeah, beer and pizza is a great way to get a few other wrench turners at the house helping out. ...just should save the mass consumption of berrr 'til after the job is done. Been there, made that mistake before. ...btw, not using assembly lube on rod bearings is an important step you don't want to forget. (sadbanana)

Ha, yeah I thought about rewording that but...(drunk), as for the mileage one has to raise an eyebrow. When I took my tranny out my buddy couldn't believe how good of condition my clutch was in, not using assembly lube, lol i don't even know what that means!

Shift2xlr8

04-14-2010, 05:19 PM

I'll describe what my tranny is doing and whoever the tranny guru's are can maybe assess the issue from there.

It goes into every gear just fine and the car drives, it just makes a very hard loud ticking sound and just yesterday...after I romped on it it started to slip a hair when I applied the gas almost as if it were not putting power to the wheels. I checked the CV axles and its not those, my next guess would be maybe the Differential? I thought I had read somewhere that the open diff's on the 01-02 tranny's were notorious for going bad...just thought I'd post this up and see if anyone else has had this problem. Thanks guys!

speedypro2003

06-30-2011, 07:00 PM

Subb

Mazdaspeed2oo35

08-05-2011, 06:05 AM

I have a good friend of mine here in SPAIN that owns a Shop and he have the Mitchel on Demand5 Software where theres everything about the Mazdaspeed Protege Transmission. But my problem is theres so many sections that i don´t know which to print.

So far this sections are the ones i have selected and i have printed out of couse choosing Previously the vehicle in this case the 2003 Mazdaspeed Protege.

1. OVERHAUL - F25M-R & G25M-R
2. TRANSAXLE COMPONENT SPECIFICATIONS (G15M-R/G25M-R)
3. TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS G15M-R/G25M-R

But im still missing info most likely..

Im kind of lost what exactly i need to reinstall and adjust the transmission, i need to give the shop this info in order for them to replace my broken TBK 3rd gear for PAR 3rd gear replacement and i believe readjust and reshim or what ever it´s called to put everything back together to work propertly and not granade it self.

I know there were a PDF file floating around in this forum with the proper info but i just can´t find shit honestly any help with be highly appreciated.