Custom Internals...need everyone's help.

[CommieSpeed]

Ok, so I have a buddy who works in a machine shop, and a very good one at that. They apparently have the same high level equipment as the shop that makes parts for Nascar. He has offered to make any internals/parts I want, and all I have to do is pay for the materials at cost. So, as I am fairly ignorant to the fabrication of engine parts...what should I be asking him to make? He can make rods, pistons, crankshafts etc...with any metal I desire...ANY. they can heat and cold treat anything as well. So what'll it be? Forged, cold-treated titanium connecting rods? Heat-treated aluminum pistons? What would you guys ask for? thx!

[KzA]

your the luckiest man on the planet

[pdhaudio83]

shop name? im not going to install internals from 'your friends machine shop' unless it is known out there, reason being, these are the most important parts in da engine...

whats the shop called

[ddogg777]

shop name? im not going to install internals from 'your friends machine shop' unless it is known out there, reason being, these are the most important parts in da engine...

whats the shop called
I don't think he was asking what WE want, he just wants ideas to ask for what HE wants...
I would look at getting some cams. Also, take your block in to have them strengthen the main bearing girdle that holds the thrust washers. Is your friend going to do all the measuring and tolerancing for pistons and rods? When Beau at MAM had Oliver rods make his first rods he had to send them two sets of stock rods so that they could get accurate and repetitve measurements.

[CommieSpeed]

I don't think he was asking what WE want, he just wants ideas to ask for what HE wants...
I would look at getting some cams. Also, take your block in to have them strengthen the main bearing girdle that holds the thrust washers. Is your friend going to do all the measuring and tolerancing for pistons and rods? When Beau at MAM had Oliver rods make his first rods he had to send them two sets of stock rods so that they could get accurate and repetitve measurements.Exactly...hehehe, this is just for me. He makes connecting rods and pistons all the time so he says he has a number of templates/measurements, and can customize them to whatever specs are neccessary. I just need to know first and foremost what type of metal would be ideal, what type of treatment, and then how I would go about figuring out measurements for the rods, pistons, etc.

[casper]

All titanium. Mmmmmm..

[CommieSpeed]

All titanium. Mmmmmm..But would titanium be a suitable metal for engine internals?? This is the kind of stuff I am wondering. The first thing I thought of was forged titanium pistons and rods!!!!(rockon)

[RyanJayG]

Titanium would be the best but WAY overkill... not to mention your material cost would be rediculous.

just have them build billet steel rods for you. and some pistons wouldn't hurt, but aluminum is expensive now too.

[CommieSpeed]

Titanium would be the best but WAY overkill... not to mention your material cost would be rediculous.

just have them build billet steel rods for you. and some pistons wouldn't hurt, but aluminum is expensive now too.Hmmm...BUT...as I only have to pay for the materials at cost...would it be worth it to go all titanium? He told me it would only be a couple hundred for the material for 4 rods and pistons. The crank was going to be the tricky part, he said. Would I be considerably more bad-ass with all Titanium internals in the Titanium MSP? Me thinks yes. Oh....BTW...my buddy seemed to think that titanium would not be best for pistons...would this be because it wears differently or something? Any input from vendors/people with shops would be great as well.

[Dr.Sound]

you are one lucky dood.

[t3ase]

Getting internals but can't used the right subforums.. Tsk tsk.

[t3ase]

Can we also do something about the 7349x3832 resolution signature pic?

[ddogg777]

Commie, I would talk to Beau at Mental Addiction, he could get you specs and what not... He had also been looking at billet crank.

[CommieSpeed]

Getting internals but can't used the right subforums.. Tsk tsk.shit crap damn...sorry...thought of this right after I posted it.

[CommieSpeed]

Can we also do something about the 7349x3832 resolution signature pic?sorry X 2......ok ok ok gimme some time to build a sig collage using pictures of my girl....I suck with photoshop(evil)

[CommieSpeed]

you are one lucky dood.Not unless I can figure out what to have him make!!! Does all Titanium sound like a good idea to you?

[RyanJayG]

sure it does, read this: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/82378/

but you will pay much more compared to billet steel, but as for pistons, DO NOT make them from titanium, they would be too heavy, forged Aluminum is MORE than strong enough to survive, and its cheaper

[CommieSpeed]

sure it does, read this: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/82378/

but you will pay much more compared to billet steel, but as for pistons, DO NOT make them from titanium, they would be too heavy, forged Aluminum is MORE than strong enough to survive, and its cheaperThanks yo! Great article...so no Titanium pistons, eh? Is aluminum really lighter than Titanium? My friend told me that he has never used Titanium for a crankshaft either...I would really like to use titanium wherever possible...because I can get it for so cheap. If it is advantageous to use it in any place then I would like to as long as I am only paying for it at cost.

[TurfBurn]

I'm amazed he can do it at cost because machining titanium sucks the big one because it wears tools so unbelievably fast and you have to have such hard tooling to deal with it... but whatever I suppose... :)

Our crank is very strong... I don't think anyone has done anything to it yet... so I wouldn't be all that worried about it.. but go nuts I guess... the titanium rods is pretty sweet.... but again one thing that people are starting to find is that once you get to having forged internals it is the block and head and gaskets that are the issue, not the internals.... If he can make you a head out of a high grade T6 billet alluminum.... THAT would be some wicked shit.... that and find a way to reinforce the thrust main to a fantastic level and you'd be well on your way to having a block built enough to push past 500 horse..... you also need to do something about the tops of the pistons.... that will help you out as far as heat and melting those bad boys..

as far as if titanium or aluminum is lighter... I don't remember of the top of my head but go to www.matweb.com (http://www.matweb.com) and check out what alloys he thinks and that will give you a good idea as to what you are looking at weight wise...

Later!

Steve

EDIT: I checked general titanium against 6061 T6 aluminum and the titanium is about twice as dense... so twice as heavy for the same volume. but obviously FAR stronger... and far lighter than steel as well.

[TurfBurn]

a titanium crank if able to be made would be interesting from the standpoint of so much less rotating mass... but that could make the motor be rather touch and hard to drive because there would be so little weight... and them trying to get the lobes and so forth right... yeah.. nightmare... you or your buddy would have to be awfully technically spot on to design that piece right.

[CommieSpeed]

a titanium crank if able to be made would be interesting from the standpoint of so much less rotating mass... but that could make the motor be rather touch and hard to drive because there would be so little weight... and them trying to get the lobes and so forth right... yeah.. nightmare... you or your buddy would have to be awfully technically spot on to design that piece right.Daaaamn...thank for for this, and the above information...this is the shit I need to know. I was wondering if I could leave the crank alone for now, he said that part would be a big pain in the ass to make anyway. I really want to get this going asap, while I still have this oppurtunity. If you have anymore adive please let me know!!! Thanks again man!!!(rockon)

[TurfBurn]

Daaaamn...thank for for this, and the above information...this is the shit I need to know. I was wondering if I could leave the crank alone for now, he said that part would be a big pain in the ass to make anyway. I really want to get this going asap, while I still have this oppurtunity. If you have anymore adive please let me know!!! Thanks again man!!!(rockon) NP :D

Yeah, I'd leave the crank be... have them knife edge it and check it for stress with magnaflux for micro crack etc... but otherwise just cleap your stock crank.. maybe even polish it... and the crank department will be fine...

the two major things to deal with are reinforcing that block, and doing what you can for the head to prevent blown gaskets... square those two things away and you'll be able to make more than enough power and the only thing to worry about then is constantly blowing/stripping gears.

[ddogg777]

Have him cut you some gearsets! That is what you need!

[TurfBurn]

I'm working on that.... I'm hoping to have custom gearsets available within the next few months.. definitely within the next 6 one way or another... :). But there is a thread up regarding that fact now. I am definitely trying to get that as an option for this community! And nowhere near the sick 1k a pop that MazdaMotorsports wants for them!

[ddogg777]

EDIT: Ahh, I found the custom gears thread and already posted in it... :D

[jeffmsp]

ummmm, your buddy works for a NASCAR shop and he doesnt even know what to use?....

[Speedplease]

He said he works at a shop thats has the same machines as a NASCAR shop, not actually an NASCAR shop.

[CommieSpeed]

ummmm, your buddy works for a NASCAR shop and he doesnt even know what to use?....*sigh* As one can see in the above posts, he tells me he can make me whatever I want, I just need to tell him what. As there are many different metals, I was inquiring with the Mazdaspeed community as to what would be the most ideal configuration of internals for him to make me.(drive)

[ddogg777]

Here's my opinion. There are already some nice pistons and rods out there from well known companies (unless you really want to do titanium...go for it then), I would have him cut some axles and CVs, gear shafts, layshafts, etc. You can't find those anywhere else..

[TurfBurn]

Here's my opinion. There are already some nice pistons and rods out there from well known companies (unless you really want to do titanium...go for it then), I would have him cut some axles and CVs, gear shafts, layshafts, etc. You can't find those anywhere else..
not yet at least... *wink* *wink*

[CommieSpeed]

Here's my opinion. There are already some nice pistons and rods out there from well known companies (unless you really want to do titanium...go for it then), I would have him cut some axles and CVs, gear shafts, layshafts, etc. You can't find those anywhere else..Hmmm..but you see, how much are these pistons and rods made by other companies? If I could have Titanium rods for way cheaper that Pauter rods...then YEEE-HAWWW BITCHES!!!(eekdance) Plus I will feel way tougher, cooler, and more Vin Diesel-like all around with bad-ass Titanium custom internals. Just think of the vanity plate options......