Good Tuning>Broken Rods?

[jeffmsp]

hey guys,

When I first came to this message board about 7 months ago I made a post about reaching 250hp reliably.

Here:

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64109&page=1&pp=15&highlight=250hp

Anyways, now that I have a FMIC on the way I think I am ready to tune the car with a ECU reflash done locally. Do you think I can hit 250hp? With the Unichip I see that people are running 13psi on the stock motor, even without as many mods as I do. Will i be able to attain more reliability with the new ECU? I know, I know, forge the motor, but fuck man, the motor is brand new, no problems whatsoever, starts everytime kinda deal, I dont think I wanna rip it apart unless I have too. It has 30,000 kilometers, its brand spanking new! and the car is fast enough already, I told myself I would stop a long time ago cause to me its just not practical to commute everywhere with more power than that lol(work and college)..... I am planning on tuning with just 91 octane gas so that when I run 94 octane + the methenol injection I wont have a chance on pinging(hasnt even with the current setup, but I would imagine a reflashed ECU will have a much more agressive setup than the stock ECU.), what do you guys think? BTW- I will also shortly be catless if this mil elim gets here already lol

BTW-do any of you know off hand if a 1.8l BP tranny will bolt to a FS, I keep getting mixed responces from my searches and escortracing.com is down so I cant find all of that great mazda info.


Thanks for your time, Jeff (drive)

[low_psi]

250bhp is definately possible. I'm shooting for A200whp/B230whp once I pick up a Unichip. 220-240whp seems to be the edge of longevity for the motor. Tuning does make a BIG difference.

I think the key is to limit the time your engine spends making max power by running stock boost most of the time. Not that 10psi isn't reliable for daily driving, but its an unneccesary load on the engine. Might as well be easy on it when you can be.

The gearbox used on the BP motors is the same G15M-R tranny used for the 2.0L's. The housing may be different inorder to mate with the block though. The single cam motors use a different transmission though.

[EvilMSP]

I have yet to fool around with that much power but I think it's ovbious that no one knows for sure :). It seems like every car is different and every driver is different. You have people like BLkZoomZoom who do 300+ drags on the engine til it blows and you have those stories of guys who boost 13 psi and blow it on the freeway from driving funky in 5th.

I think if you tuned it nicely it would last longer than if it wasn't tuned. And forged is the safest bet of all cause no on wants a rod taking out everything. But if it was my car I would feel safe enough to be in that HP range with stock internals if you drive it nicely. Cause it sounds like most people who blow motors do it at 100+ mph. That is what I remember reading from most of the "oh shit" threads atleast.

[turbo speedy]

i think that are people runing 14 pounds that blow motors but then again theres people that run like 15 and are ok it varys from msp to msp

[Striker187]

it's probably very possible to see numbers like that on the stock internals. discreetspeed was boosting ~15-18 psi daily with no fuel/timing management and his engine lasted for about a year. in the end, it didn't blow - a piston ring wore down. i've seen civics making 300+ hp on stock internals cause of the tuning. but at the same time, the engines are not expected to last long. maybe 2-3 years simply cause the internals were not designed to handle those kinds of stresses day after day. so can you do it? probably. can you do it reliably? probably not.

[EvilMSP]

I just got off the phone with DSMConvert and ended up talking about a question just like this. After talking for a while I feel safer about that amount of HP with stock internals. It's all about good mods and good tuning.

[INGREXCO]

so far the people i know who have popped their motors did something stupid... running 12 psi daily was fine until they downshifted to 3rd on the highway to smoke an incoming ricer, and BOOM overrevv boost spike

[UnNaturalinc]

With intake, exhaust, Unichip (running 10-12 psi) I hit 248hp and about 220tq. Those numbers seem to be higher than most.

It only took about $1,500 of parts to get that kind of power with my car.

Every time a change was made it was tuned on a dyno with wideband o2. I run with the aggressive boost settings daily. It's completely safe.


My goal was to get around 300whp (with stock turbo) and/or run 12's, but unfortunately I'm selling the car.

[MsProtege]

I've been owned by t3ase. Thanks. (bow)

[MsProtege]

I've been owned by t3ase. Thanks. (bow)

[UnNaturalinc]

Got any Dyno sheets?

Sure... It's been on here before.

HPF MSP (http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid118/p6e4508522c2ac7066970f3eb5b286379/f88e2ee3.jpg.orig.jpg)

[MsProtege]

I've been owned by t3ase. Thanks. (bow)

[UnNaturalinc]

can you load it as an attachment, the link doesnt work

right click the link, go to proporties and the link is there.

[jeffmsp]

cant seem to get her working doing what you said, those some nice number though (eek2)

[BoOsTiN]

Is that crank or wheel hp?

[jeffmsp]

is that 10-12psi on 91oct gas or do you have better?

[kicker22705]

those numbers are prolly crank hp. thats the same mods corksports has on their msp and they have a dyno sheet that measure at the flywheel which was puttin down little above 245 hp.

http://www.corksport.com/contentEditor/link2file.php3?file=chart.jpg&linkas=2

[UnNaturalinc]

is that 10-12psi on 91oct gas or do you have better?

Our high test fuel is 92oct in Portland. And at the low price of $2.29 a gallon. :)

[DSMConvert]

It is actually all about tuning the car...I built a FS-DE turbo kit for my old 95mx6 and it ran perfect at 8-9psi for close to 5 months...sold it to a punk kid, he adjusted the map values too much and 4 days later popped the motor...funny thing was he said it was my fault until I informed him that the fuel controller recorded the last data sequence...loaded it up and low and behold user edited value which caused a lean condition.....its perfectly safe to run 10-11psi, as long as its tuned properly and has the correct supporting mods, on a daily basis. Now yes this will shorten the overall life of you motor, but you should still get significant life out of your motor. Now I must say that those last few sentences are my sole opinion based on tuning and datalogging that we have done on the MSP and my experience with the older FS-DE motor which I custom built a turbo application. You must also acknowledge that there are freak motors, both good and bad. Some get insane performance otu of theirs, while others pop theirs the first time they turn it up to 8psi....

[UnNaturalinc]

It is actually all about tuning the car...I built a FS-DE turbo kit for my old 95mx6 and it ran perfect at 8-9psi for close to 5 months...sold it to a punk kid, he adjusted the map values too much and 4 days later popped the motor...funny thing was he said it was my fault until I informed him that the fuel controller recorded the last data sequence...loaded it up and low and behold user edited value which caused a lean condition.....its perfectly safe to run 10-11psi, as long as its tuned properly and has the correct supporting mods, on a daily basis. Now yes this will shorten the overall life of you motor, but you should still get significant life out of your motor. Now I must say that those last few sentences are my sole opinion based on tuning and datalogging that we have done on the MSP and my experience with the older FS-DE motor which I custom built a turbo application. You must also acknowledge that there are freak motors, both good and bad. Some get insane performance otu of theirs, while others pop theirs the first time they turn it up to 8psi....

I agree, very good information here.

The F-series motors have always responded well with turbo.... You know about that crazy FE3, right? I almost built one of those for my Probe when I learned first hand that the K-Series motors kinda suck. :)

[jeffmsp]

K-Series motors kinda suck

I know what you mean, I had a 94 MX-6 V6 and the thing always had problems. I bought the car and had to buy this, then a week later another thing, then another,it never ended, after 6 months I said fuck it, a brand new MazdaSpeed will cost me less per month with nothing down aside from the tradein. (and the rack on the mx6 was about to go so i didnt want to sell it privately hehe) Plus I got the car for 300 over invoice through my work and there was a $2000 rebate since it was a 2003 and i got a 0% loan for 5 years, so now I pay like $400/month Cdn, way better than having to put close to that into a old car like the mx per month lol And the K series lifters are garbage, and quite frankly my MS is starting to click click click too, damn mazda.......

[laracroft]

Getting a fmic by tax time. :D I have a Unichip, SP2, 3" DP, Injen CAI and a few other things. I mostly use map A, not the more agressive B & keep the elect. bc in the off position. With that in mind, I'm only at around 7psi and still fairly competitive. Haven't dyno'd my car and don't plan to til early next year. I'm currently wrestling with buying some sparco seats/harnesses and forged internals come tax time as well. I've already spent well over $1500 or more on aftermarket parts & details. I have a long way to go. Mostly I'm pretty unconcerned with going all out show wise (like body kits other than stock & some bling). But by next year, I should have a pretty nice ride I can take to the strip to whoop on some candy asses. I may even get someone to fabricate a roll bar for me. We'll see. I may have to take a second job just to support my "habit". lol