Clutch Chatter

[Dr.Sound]

i have it
it sux

no seriously, i owned my Si for almost 3 years, drove it the same way i drive MSP, and never had clutch chatter.
it usually happens on cold mornings, or if the car has been off for a long time.
1st gear especially......unless i rev up higher than usual the car will shake violently.

even if the car warms up it will do it. it is much less pronounced then, but i can still feel it.

i came across this during a search....it's for miata:

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/docs/bulletins/05-0011.gif

[EvilMSP]

I have the same thing!!! I told my friends about it and they all didn't know what I was talking about. And yes it is mostly on cold days until it warms up.

[lamp3]

Hey Doc, The MP3's were notorious for it. Mazda has a tsb for it somewhere. The dealers will generally try and wiggle out of it (what else is new), by sighting abuse or saying they can't reproduce the problem. The tsb might be listed here.
http://web2.airmail.net/theman/protegefaq/tsb/

[Replica]

Most dealers don't give a shit. Good luck.

[Crock]

You feel it in the pedal or the whole car? Once in a while, my car raddles like a M-F when engaging first gear. It sounds like something underneath.

[lamp3]

you'll feel it in the whole car. And Replica has a point lol

[EvilMSP]

Yes it is the whole car cause when people are in it they say "what was that." But you can also feel it in the stearing wheel and feet a lot. That has more of a connection to the shaking.

[Dr.Sound]

the car rattles.
it almost feels like i'm learning how to drive a stick all over again.

the thing that triggered this thread, was what i saw today.
it wa an old bug at a red light.
he started moving on 1st gear when light turned green, and almost stalled out because the car started shaking. and i could hear the same thing. as soon as he brought RPMs up, the clutch grabbed and the shaking went away.

it's like "ta ta ta ta ta".
feels like the disk doesnt grip smouthly, but catches and then bounces back.

anyone knows what causes it?
how can it be cured?

[lamp3]

I delieve I heard it was something to do with clutch mis-alignment in the mp3's. All the dealers were saying it was hot spots on the disk due to abuse. bs.

[Dr.Sound]

yeah, well the dealer will not do anything on the clutch after 12k miles.

u guys with aftermarkit clutches, does it fix the problem?

[Dr.Sound]

http://web2.airmail.net/theman/protegefaq/tsb/mt000003848.html

[Replica]

It feels like wheel hop, like if you were to dump the clutch at like 5,500rpm. It really sucks...

[Rich24km]

i get it very very very slightly sometimes. Its not alot....but i feel it.

[boostisgood]

I got 22K and replaced my clutch with a factory one, when they changed the motor out at 17K. Guess what, the factory replacment is going AGAIN, and I baby the damn car. Time for my own upgrade in that dept. Mazda clutches = Poo poo.

[Mach 3.5 Turbo]

If you don't feel it only in the pedal, it's probably engine mount problems. I'm a design engineer at a clutch manufacturuer, so I know little about the issue. If the whole car is shaking, then the engine is shaking the car, not the disk. If the disk is slipping, the car will tend to lurch and then stop, then repeat, but not really "shake." I'm not saying it couldn't be the clutch, but check you motor mounts (especially the rear one). One may be broken. With the engine cold, the motor mounts are harder and therefore shake more, those with solid mounts can vouch for this. If you're not modded to the extreme, take your car to the dealer and make them inspect the motor mounts, then the clutch if needed. Motor mounts should be covered for a long time, but like it was mentioned, the clutch is only covered for 12000 miles (pretty pathetic number if you ask me). Good luck

[Mach 3.5 Turbo]

Oh, and I agree that the mazda stock clutch is crapola. It uses rubber blocks for damper springs for god's sakes. That's the cheapest junk they can throw in a disc. I think that nearly any aftermarket clutch will be better than the MSP (or stock) clutch. I've examined a stock clutch and they just seem like crap. If it is indeed your clutch, I'd recommend a SPEC clutch as a replacement. They seem to do it right.

[FSDET]

LOL u should feel it with my MT front and rear motor mounts. it feels like wheelhop when i put it in first gear. its more like ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta and then i have to rev it to like 3k to make it go away but after driving it for 5-10 minutes it goes away.

[122 Vega]

EXACTLY what I had mine replaced for at 14,000 miles after 9,000 miles of bitching about it. When I mentioned it here, I got slammed here for not knowing how to drive a stick!

Mine was so bad that the change in my ashtray would make a bunch of noise and the dash would vibrate.

Interesting theory about the "cold motor mounts." I just put in my AWR mounts after driving for twenty or so miles, and they were just at ambient temps. Burned myself on the side of the block though.

It was the clutch disk. It was totally gone when I left the dealership and that was on cold mounts.

Britt

[Dr.Sound]

so repplacing with an aftermarket clutch will help.....right?
i know nothing about clutches, i'm looking for something with good street drivability.
Mack 3.5 mentioned SPEC, i'll research them.
anyone else have other ideas?

[TigrMsP]

I get this too on cool mornings.. not even COLD mornings. I'm in GA, it's not cold here yet. Usually the first time I start up in first.

I'd also like to know what aftermarket clutches would help this. Anyone?

[EvilMSP]

My cold California Mornings are the same as your everyday I bet over there in GA.

[nate0123]

mine has the same problem, and it's gotten worse lately with the cold weather

most often in 1st gear, but even sometimes in other gears I feel some shake when engaging

[terbow]

Spec Clutches are good. When i decide to do mine thats what ill be getting.

[Wha'Happened]

I read this last night, and then today on the way home from work, it totally happened to me for the first time. The car sat out in the rain all day, and it was probably the coldest it had been in a long time. BUt you are right, it is like a "chatter" or a shudder, it happend when I was in first letting out the clutch, it acts like you arent giving it enough gas almost....

[txmzdspd2gen]

hmm better keep an eye on mine. Did you guys warm up the car first or just for few secs and drive it off. Mine has a chatter when i ctart it up in the morning witht the clutch fully depress. Is that normal?

[night rider]

ive got it too, such a pain in the ass, i just let the car warm up for like 2 or 3 minutes before getting in gear and take it easy but it does still happen from time. Bring it up to around 3k and it goes away. I dont even drive my car hard so i dont believe the dealer when they told me it was because if dumping the clutch and high rev driving, bastards. Oh well what a great excuse to get a good clutch right?

[Dr.Sound]

I read this last night, and then today on the way home from work, it totally happened to me for the first time. The car sat out in the rain all day, and it was probably the coldest it had been in a long time. BUt you are right, it is like a "chatter" or a shudder, it happend when I was in first letting out the clutch, it acts like you arent giving it enough gas almost....it sux, doesnt it?

i let my car warm up for at least 5 min every morning.
still does it.

[nate0123]

hmm better keep an eye on mine. Did you guys warm up the car first or just for few secs and drive it off. Mine has a chatter when i ctart it up in the morning witht the clutch fully depress. Is that normal?well it's a manual, so you kinda have to start it up with the clutch fully depressed (dunno)

[TX Speed Demon]

...Mack 3.5 mentioned SPEC, i'll research them.
anyone else have other ideas?

LinuxRacer has a SPEC clutch now, I'd ask him. Talk to Beau at MAM too, he hooked Liinux up on a good price for his.

[Dr.Sound]

thanks!

[Dr.Sound]

another thing, will an aftermarket clutch void your warranty on power train?

[Protege52003]

another thing, will an aftermarket clutch void your warranty on power train?
i don't think so?

[MackDadam]

I had that in my 02 Protege ES, the dealers wouldnt acknowledge it though. they drove it and said they couldnt reproduce it. it was a bitch. I never noticed it in my MSP though, i had 15000 miles on it and it never chattered. it was probably coming though.

[MSP2NV]

i get that too, i thought i was just crazy. Yea when it just gets done raining it seems like. My car does it in First really bad, and 2nd rather noticably. I thought i was nutz, but now that you guys are tellin me that it's a common problem i'll mention that to the nice folks @ nucar.

[Mach 3.5 Turbo]

hmm better keep an eye on mine. Did you guys warm up the car first or just for few secs and drive it off. Mine has a chatter when i ctart it up in the morning witht the clutch fully depress. Is that normal?
This absolutely, positively cannot be clutch chatter. When the clutch is fully depressed, there is nothing to chatter since the disc and the pressure plate aren't in contact. Chatter is caused either when the disc slips intermittently on the pressure plate, or either the pressure plate or disc is warped and the high spot is transmitting torque from one to the other. I still think a lot of people are experiencing motor mount vibration. Nearly everyone who notes a chatter notices it when the car is cold. The clutch doesn't really chatter more or less when cold, but the motor mounts are much harder cold than hot (they're rubber). On cold mornings with the AWR mounts in, the steering wheel shakes so badly I have to hold the rpms above 1600 to get rid of it. It calms down as the car warms up. This is an extreme example, but the stock motor mounts will behave similarly when cold/hot.

Now that I think about it, the stock disc has rubber "pucks" in place of conventional springs to damped the vibration of the engine. This is the cheap way out and you can only get away with using these if the gears in the transmission have very tight tolerances. Basically, most japanese cars can use these, while most american cars need a better disc. The reason for this is to eliminate gear rattle (really annoying, it's the phenomenon of the tolerances in the gears being too large, and the undriven meshed gears rattle between one another and clang about), but the springs also tend to "smooth" the transition of torque from the engine to transmission. The rubber in the disc might be hard enough on cold mornings to cause chatter as well. Usually, the higher the spring rate the easier a car will chatter. Perhaps what you're hearing is gear rattle and not the disc chattering????? Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

[yashooa]

another thing, will an aftermarket clutch void your warranty on power train?Sure it will damn it are you FARKING RETARDED!!!!?!!!!
(wedge) (nuts) (wedge)

[yashooa]

ALIENS PROBED MY CLUTCH and now it won't SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

[Dr.Sound]

LMAO :D
grat to have u back yash......i read your "serious" post on steph's thread and thought you got soft on us.

[spicynamja]

I get it sometimes, but only recently. If its such a problem to fix I might as well get an Aftermarket clutch. I'm at 30k miles anyways...

[KyRaceFan]

I definately have this same issue. If i dont slip the clutch just right on cold mornings, i get a really bad vibration, and i can almost always hear a little grinding noise when i engage the clutch to move forward, even after the car is warmed up. I always thought it was my motor mounts, or my hardpipes rubbing something. But i checked all the clearances, and insulated some of them with rubber and still heard it.
Im glad i was on the forums today, since i was just telling my friend about it last night. He was clueless, and didnt notice it when i let him drive it.

I guess i could take it to the dealer, but im way out of clutch warranty.

[Dr.Sound]

yeah, even when the car is warmed up i still get the chatter in 4th......even if i dont get it in 1st anymore.

[Dimitrios]

Seeing that this is the most recent thread...I took my Protege5 in today for this. It happens maybe every 1 1/2 weeks?

Mach 3.5 Turbo: my issue has beein occuring since the summer and on the stock motor mounts (on a front AT AWR mount now). It is definitely NOT the mounts.

I'll wait and see tomorrow what happens; if they determine that the clutch is gone (disc, clutch pack, or flywheel, it's time for lightened flywheel and aftermarket clutch from MAM or something). My friends have had Honduh's and 'Yotas with 150k+ on the stock clutch and they drive like assclowns.

[rocketspeed]

I'm getting what seems like some light clutch chatter on all shifts, cold or hot. Its mild, but I can feel a stutter right where the clutch engages.

[biochembruin]

same here. i thought it was my motor mounts going at first, but then figured it was my clutch starting to slip since i do a lot of stop and go driving. it's more apparent when the car is cold, but does happen on occasion when the car is warm.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89335&page=1&pp=15

from the above thread, spec is the best, and ACT and clutchmasters are crap. the spec MSP clutches are way more expensive than the regular protege, but i'm told both will fit the MSP. the comparable stage clutch for the MSP has a higher torque rating than that of the base protege (ie, compare both stage II spec clutches) but you may be able to get away with the less expensive, base protege clutch, if it's true that the MSP and base clutches are the same.
http://www.specclutch.com/specMain.html

[Dr.Sound]

it's those rubbers instead of springs.

[biochembruin]

makes sense

[BOOSTR]

Chatter is when the car shudders as the clutch is being engaged. Possible [causes] may be as follows:


Flywheel has excessive run-out.
Flywheel was not resurfaced or improperly resurfaced before the new clutch was installed.
Damaged or excessively worn CV joints.
Bad U-joints in driveshaft or U-joints misaligned.
Excessive backlash in differential.
Excessive driveline angle.
Bad leaf springs, bushings or mounts.
The use of an aggressive clutch disc designed for racing.
Defective pressure plate and/or disc.
Disc has inadequate marcel (not enough cushion between the friction facing).
Oil or grease contamination on clutch facings.
Worn or damaged clutch linkage.
Bent pressure plate assembly and/or disc.
Improperly tuned engine.
Worn or damaged engine mounts or transmission mounts.

[Protege52003]

my 01' ES 2.0 had this problem and it pissed me off on the cold winter days. guess it was the warped fly-wheel was the main problem.....wish i had known that before i got rid of the car. started after 20K and i thought i fried the clutch.....i miss my sedan

[BOOSTR]

Part #SZ 332 for Mazdaspeed for $459 from ClutchExpress.com. Its a Kevlar disc versus organic. Thats what I am going to put in when my clutch wears out.

[Dimitrios]

Chatter is when the car shudders as the clutch is being engaged. Possible [causes] may be as follows:


Flywheel has excessive run-out.
Flywheel was not resurfaced or improperly resurfaced before the new clutch was installed.
Damaged or excessively worn CV joints.
Bad U-joints in driveshaft or U-joints misaligned.
Excessive backlash in differential.
Excessive driveline angle.
Bad leaf springs, bushings or mounts.
The use of an aggressive clutch disc designed for racing.
Defective pressure plate and/or disc.
Disc has inadequate marcel (not enough cushion between the friction facing).
Oil or grease contamination on clutch facings.
Worn or damaged clutch linkage.
Bent pressure plate assembly and/or disc.
Improperly tuned engine.
Worn or damaged engine mounts or transmission mounts.


Good points, but this occurs (at least in my and other's case) when cold and during 1st and 2nd gears. When I'm at speed or once it warms up, it doesn't occur.

The clutch sucks.

[NegatiZE]

Bah, now that I got my 2.0 manual swapped in, I'm feeling the clutch chatter as well. It's only when the car hasn't been run in a while and especially on cold mornings. It feels like I'm just learning to drive a stick for a first time and I'm getting lots wheel hop.

Since I have no warranty, I guess it's time to look for an aftermarket clutch sooner or later.

[Dr.Sound]

but damn Negatizi, your car looks awesome.

[NegatiZE]

Thanks man I appreciate it.

[jonlong]

Has anyone been successful in getting the dealership to replace a clutch under warranty on a 2003.5 model? All the TSB's I can find for clutch chatter seem to be for 2002's and earlier. I plan on going to the dealership to have them look at my clutch, flywheel, and motor mounts, but having a TSB would make things a lot easier.

Thanks

[Hughes412]

Has anyone been successful in getting the dealership to replace a clutch under warranty on a 2003.5 model? All the TSB's I can find for clutch chatter seem to be for 2002's and earlier. I plan on going to the dealership to have them look at my clutch, flywheel, and motor mounts, but having a TSB would make things a lot easier.

Thanks


I don't have an MSP but I do have an 03 Pro and the dealer here in Georgetown TX said he found something on the protege clutch and that there was a hole new kit that they put in them. but only if your under 25k miles. I got mine replaced with 24k and they even put my 9lbs FW and baring for 75 total. You might give them a call. I had the work done at a differant dealer. All 3 mazda dealers were going to do it.

[jonlong]

awesome! I hope it works that way for me. I have about 18k miles on it right now. Oh, and mine isn't a MSP either, its a P5.

[t3ase]

I've been through a stock clutch, an ACT stage 2, and a Spec stage 3 hybrid. I have had chatter on all but the Spec is quite a bit better. The MT mounts certainly didn't help it, either, though.

[mspeed101]

I have been getting this alot lately but it doesnt matter whether its cold or not I get it all the time in first gear. Could it be a motor mount? I only have my front awr mount installed. Any ideas?

[Hughes412]

With you turbo guys I don't know. I don't have one. But I know with the turbo you dump alot of torq at one time and if you have problems it's gona be hard to get help.

T3as, when you had your CC problems was this befor or after the 14psi? Oh and are you going to Dallas this weekend?

[Dr.Sound]

bump, clutch chatter sux

[JDM Sam]

I like this one.
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31936

[Dr.Sound]

^ BAH!!!
no shit :D
that's beautiful!!!!

[NegatiZE]

What clutch is that?

[Dr.Sound]

spec......stage 1 or 2?

or maybe ACT.

EDIT: i dont think it's spec

[JDM Sam]

Custom Exedy

[Dr.Sound]

......or maybe i'm just wrong altogether

[t3ase]

With you turbo guys I don't know. I don't have one. But I know with the turbo you dump alot of torq at one time and if you have problems it's gona be hard to get help.

T3as, when you had your CC problems was this befor or after the 14psi? Oh and are you going to Dallas this weekend?
During. I think my car saw stock boost for about three months out of the two years I've had it.

[Stormtrooper77]

Bringing this one back up.

I've been getting this for a while now. So is a new clutch the only possible solution? Anyone get rid of their chatter?

[armando_026]

Bringing this one back up.

I've been getting this for a while now. So is a new clutch the only possible solution? Anyone get rid of their chatter?


My car was doing this. I took it to the dealer, and they said it was my rear motor mount that was cracked. It still does it slightly, but there is an improvement

[JDM Sam]

Custom Exedy
lol its not custom anymore. OG post.

[Rawyzf]

Bringing this one back up.

I've been getting this for a while now. So is a new clutch the only possible solution? Anyone get rid of their chatter?

I had this at like 10,000 miles. Dealer said there was a TSB for it and fixed it.

[Stormtrooper77]

I had this at like 10,000 miles. Dealer said there was a TSB for it and fixed it.

Did they replace it with MSP parts or regular Protege parts? Just curious. Plus, I have 51000 KM on my car so they may very well just charge me for a new clutch.

[Rawyzf]

I asked that, and they said MSP parts. I think some of them are interchangable though....not 100% sure. I'll see if I can find the invoice.


Did they replace it with MSP parts or regular Protege parts? Just curious. Plus, I have 51000 KM on my car so they may very well just charge me for a new clutch.

[kag]

Did they replace it with MSP parts or regular Protege parts? Just curious. Plus, I have 51000 KM on my car so they may very well just charge me for a new clutch.

What a coincidence, I just went to the dealership yesterday about that problem. Of course as soon as I entered the driveway the problem went away, so we couldn't reproduce it in the test drive, but the way I explained it, the service guy said his best shot was probably a burned spot on the clutch. I have 60,000KM on my 2002 ES so I guess even if they have a TSB they won't do anything about it, even if they say the transmission is under warranty until 100,000KM.

[Stormtrooper77]

Just went to the dealer about this too. They couldn't reproduce it either. What a crock!

[Rawyzf]

Exactly..
Just went to the dealer about this too. They couldn't reproduce it either. What a crock!

[PaulMSP1939]

Yeah...I went to the dealer about it too. Luckily I had been on the road for about 25 minutes prior so we couldnt reproduce it...or at least to the extent it normally is. Feels like my transmission wants to drop on the ground sometimes. After some motor mounts and some warmer weather we'll see If its worth the clutch replacement. (notcool)

My biggest beef with the MSP? Tranny.