MAZDASPEED6 AWD=Bad? why

[MnDriver]

Hey guys i have heard a lot of you say that tthe AWD system that the speed 6 will have is bad why is that. i dont know much about awd so please help me under stand what is ment by the specs on the awd system thank you.

-Jeremie

[CHICO2003]

If a shitload of hp and AWD is wrong... I don't wanna be right!!!

[xtrememps]

Too bad the ms6 won't have a shitload of hp ;)

[jersey_emt]

From what I've heard, the AWD system in the MS6 will not be full-time AWD. It will be front wheel drive, and when the system senses the front wheels slipping, it will transfer torque to the back wheels.

Also IIRC the maximum torque that can be sent to the rear wheels is a rather low percentage.

This is unlike the AWD systems in, say, the Subaru WRX and STi. Both of them are full-time AWD systems, with the regular WRX splitting torque 50/50 front and back, and the STi sending 35% to the front, and 65% to the rear.

[jersey_emt]

So basically, from what I've heard, it sounds like the MS6 will get most of the disadvantages of an AWD system (weight, power loss) yet very few of the advantages.

[cbcbd]

Bogus

[MnDriver]

But see i love the way front wheel drive is so to me it sounds better. but we will have to see how it handles.

[Bass Addict]

I'm not surprised.

[jersey_emt]

But see i love the way front wheel drive is so to me it sounds better. but we will have to see how it handles.

Have you ever driven a good-handling true AWD car? Or at least a good-handling RWD car?

I mean yeah, it's going to be faster, and handle better than a 6s...but probably not all that much better or faster.

[CHICO2003]

Too bad the ms6 won't have a shitload of hp ;)

270 is exactly 100 more than our car has. It's no Ferrari but... yeah, in comparisson, I'd say it's a shiload!

Kind've blows if what you guys are saying is true about the AWD basically just being FWD unless the weather's bad... but at the same time, if this car is going to compete with the likes of the Maximas/TL's of the world (as a less expensive option mind you) those vehicles only have FWD so there's at least SOME benefit. Even still, it would be better if it had a full time system.

[MnDriver]

well the car sounds to me like its going to be fast nolonger a V6 but a turbo i4 with 274 hp and 280 lb of toruqe BTW i have a supra and i hate RWD lol dunno why its fun but were i live its not the best thats why im looking at a AWD speed 6 when it comes out.

[wongpres]

Here's the portion of one of Mazda's press releases as it pertains to the AWD:


All-New Active Torque Split All-Wheel Drive System


The Mazda6 MPS is equipped with Mazda's new active torque split, all-wheel drive system. Based on the road-proven system of the Mazda6 available in some global markets, but featuring more aggressive transfer of torque to the rear axle on all road surfaces in accordance with driving conditions, the new all-wheel-drive system achieves a fine balance between sporty control over the car that makes it particularly fun to drive and handling stability on snowy or wet surfaces or under other challenging road conditions. Power and torque are faithfully and thoroughly transferred to the road surface for maximum efficiency and performance.


The system uses real-time input data on steering angle, yaw rate, lateral G force and engine status to determine road surface and driving conditions. The active torque coupling mounted in front of the rear differential is electronically controlled accordingly, adjusting front/rear wheel torque distribution between 100:0 and 50:50 to deliver optimum drive power to each wheel. The result is powerful acceleration and positive handling regardless of constantly changing road conditions, as well as the ability to fully balance the car in a turn by deft use of the accelerator pedal.


The Mazda6 MPS's onboard computer automatically determines driving and road conditions so the driver can relax and enjoy the pleasure of the drive. Three different modes of front/rear torque distribution are selected by the system: Normal, Sports, and Snow, (for slippery surfaces). The Power Take Off (PTO) system that that aggressively distributes torque to the rear axle is fitted with its own water-cooled cooling system.
A new rear differential with greater torque capacity is employed by the system to deliver a high level of reliability. Increased torsional rigidity of the propeller shaft and rear differential mount improves the response of torque transfer to the rear wheels and delivers a more rigid feel to the ride under acceleration. And a limited slip differential is used in the rear differential optimizes transfer of torque to the left and right rear wheels, realizing solid traction and linear vehicle control that delivers a stable feeling ride when cornering.

[CHICO2003]

well the car sounds to me like its going to be fast nolonger a V6 but a turbo i4 with 274 hp and 280 lb of toruqe BTW i have a supra and i hate RWD lol dunno why its fun but were i live its not the best thats why im looking at a AWD speed 6 when it comes out.
you had to take a REALLY deep breath before letting that one out huh?

[MnDriver]

that sounds perfect to me winter :) and wet conditions thats what MN is about lol 2/3 of the year is like that so im going to get one sounds like a fun car. thanx guys on the info

[GimmeA3S]

99% of the people buying and driving this car won't be able to sense the difference between the AWD system in the 6 and the one in a WRX - it takes only 1/8 revolution of the front wheel for the system to recognize slip and send power to the rear wheels -my AWD Talon had this system and it's operation was transparent, whether doing a 6000 RPM clutch drop at a stoplight or driving on icy streets. When you get into a race with a TL from a standing start (and you know how to launch an AWD car), believe me when I say that the traction advantage is gonna put you WAY ahead.

[P5 Rally]

it doesn't really state that only the front wheels will propell the car untill the system detects slippage. It does state that torqure can be distributed 100% to the front wheels, but that is only when the rear wheels slip. Most all wheel drive cars do that. If there is no switch to change to 2wd then it is full-time. Most trucks have this feature to save on fuel.





Here's the portion of one of Mazda's press releases as it pertains to the AWD:


All-New Active Torque Split All-Wheel Drive System


The Mazda6 MPS is equipped with Mazda's new active torque split, all-wheel drive system. Based on the road-proven system of the Mazda6 available in some global markets, but featuring more aggressive transfer of torque to the rear axle on all road surfaces in accordance with driving conditions, the new all-wheel-drive system achieves a fine balance between sporty control over the car that makes it particularly fun to drive and handling stability on snowy or wet surfaces or under other challenging road conditions. Power and torque are faithfully and thoroughly transferred to the road surface for maximum efficiency and performance.


The system uses real-time input data on steering angle, yaw rate, lateral G force and engine status to determine road surface and driving conditions. The active torque coupling mounted in front of the rear differential is electronically controlled accordingly, adjusting front/rear wheel torque distribution between 100:0 and 50:50 to deliver optimum drive power to each wheel. The result is powerful acceleration and positive handling regardless of constantly changing road conditions, as well as the ability to fully balance the car in a turn by deft use of the accelerator pedal.


The Mazda6 MPS's onboard computer automatically determines driving and road conditions so the driver can relax and enjoy the pleasure of the drive. Three different modes of front/rear torque distribution are selected by the system: Normal, Sports, and Snow, (for slippery surfaces). The Power Take Off (PTO) system that that aggressively distributes torque to the rear axle is fitted with its own water-cooled cooling system.
A new rear differential with greater torque capacity is employed by the system to deliver a high level of reliability. Increased torsional rigidity of the propeller shaft and rear differential mount improves the response of torque transfer to the rear wheels and delivers a more rigid feel to the ride under acceleration. And a limited slip differential is used in the rear differential optimizes transfer of torque to the left and right rear wheels, realizing solid traction and linear vehicle control that delivers a stable feeling ride when cornering.

[acidbbg]

Guys.you need to remember that people have been able to change the awd feature on their rides for awhile now. There is usally a computer that will control this feature of the awd..So i am sure in time..some aftermarket companies..will be able to adjust the settings for the awd..to give the proper 50:50 or the more preffered 40:60.

Chas

[Mikey444]

I personally prefer 35:65

[spec5protege]

Guys.you need to remember that people have been able to change the awd feature on their rides for awhile now. There is usally a computer that will control this feature of the awd..So i am sure in time..some aftermarket companies..will be able to adjust the settings for the awd..to give the proper 50:50 or the more preffered 40:60.

Chas
If the differential is designed to operate with the split as 100/0 99.9% of the time, and you change it so that it operates 50/50 100% of the time... be prepared to go through a lot of differentials...

The WRX's system drives the back wheels all the time. It's only when there is wheel slippage that the fluid in the differential heats up and activates the differential...

[uclap5]

sounds like the exact same system of the r32 golf.

i didnt hear anyone complaining when that came out.

[MnDriver]

i have a feeling this set up will be perfect with the car (nana)

[Da 6]

don't know..the car does plows...how far do you need to plow and will the engagement of the rear wheels gonna be discreet or will it be like the 1-2 shift on the auto and cause you to all of a sudden oversteer? Has anyone convirmed the pilots aren't the oem rubber? Since it's a perfomance vehicle it should get summer tires like the RX-8

[Pretzellogic]

If a shitload of hp and AWD is wrong... I don't wanna be right!!! He he he :D

[MnDriver]

i dunno but its going to have 18 inch rims thats all i know lol should be able to plant the thing real good

[crossbow]

Guys.you need to remember that people have been able to change the awd feature on their rides for awhile now. There is usally a computer that will control this feature of the awd..So i am sure in time..some aftermarket companies..will be able to adjust the settings for the awd..to give the proper 50:50 or the more preffered 40:60.Until you realize that the transfer case is water cooled. "Why's it watercooled" you might ask. Well thats easy, because its off the european mazda 6 wagon with AWD.

"Thats interesting" you'd say, does the european wagon AWD system have a similar amount of torque to the mazdaspeed? Oh wait...shit it doesn't, it only has 155 ft/lbs...slightly less then 280 ft/lbs.

The reason the car has a 100:0 standard distribution, and a 50:50 max distribution, is because the transfer case would explode if the car ran in AWD mode constantly....thats because its from a weaker powered wagon, and thats why its watercooled.

Compare this setup to a legacy GT's distribution, and you'll see some differences in execution. Even the Jaguar X-type (which is basically the same engine/drivetrain as a mazda 6s sans the transfer case and rear diffy has a 30:70 distribution (standard not max).

If your thinking of getting the mazdaspeed 6, I'd definitely check out the Legacy GT 2.5, and the G35x, both which are within the same price range and have similar setups.

[Da 6]

what he said /\

[Mike R]

I was wondering if the setup was the same as the jag...that anwerwed that.

[crossbow]

Jaguar X-Type
http://www.jaguarusa.com/us/en/vehicles/x-type/performance/performance.htm



AWD That Feels Like Rear-Wheel Drive
Traction 4™ automatically compensates for any difference in speed between the front and rear wheels. Under normal conditions, 40 percent of the engine´s power goes to the front wheels and 60 percent to the rear, making the X-TYPE feel like an enthusiastic rear-wheel drive car. If one wheel starts to slip, as it could under hard acceleration on a patch of ice or gravel, the engine´s power is automatically and seamlessly directed to the other wheels. Duratec V6 3.0 Liter Platform. I think the 02's have 30:70...though I could just be wrong and its actually 40:60. (Thats the standard distribution)

There are some 6s members who have started (and not succeeded yet) at figuring out a way to take the jag's system (from a junkyard) and throw it on a 6s.

Infiniti G35x
http://www4.xpresssites.com/lee/lacrosse/au/story.jsp;jsessionid=D9D203765338D6B7F2EA640681F89 D1A?_RND=-467440885

addition, Infiniti's system represents minimal compromise of the rear-wheel driving characteristics on dry road favored by true driving enthusiasts. Employing true variable torque distribution, the all-wheel drive system can range from a torque split of 50/50 up to zero/100 percent front-to-rear ratio. Legacy 2.5 GT
http://www.engine-power.com/subaru/legacy_gt_press.html

Subaru offers three different Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive systems in the 2005 Legacy models, each tailored to the type of transmission. With the 5-speed manual transmission, the system uses a viscous-coupling locking center differential to distribute the power 50/50 front to rear. Slippage at either set of wheels will send more power to the other set of wheels. Legacy 2.5 GT models equipped with the optional 5-speed automatic transmission use a system called Variable Torque Distribution (VTD). A planetary center differential works with an electronically controlled continuously variable hydraulic transfer clutch to manage power distribution. The system normally sends more power to the rear wheels to enhance handling agility, and it continuously adjusts the power distribution in response to driving and road conditions. These are examples of competitive AWD sedans. Note that in all instances, power is to all 4 wheels to at least SOME extent. The Mazdaspeed 6 doesn't follow this system as its standard setup is 100:0. Its a FWD sedan that "can become" an AWD one.

And then of course you have examples like the Evo MR...which are not only lighter then the ms6, but have one of the most advanced AWD systems on the market.

Hows 100:0:0:0 sound? :)