MS6 vs. STi vs. Evo

[mp3moose]

Discuss....

[jersey_emt]

MS6 isn't in the same class or cars as the STi or Evo.

[mp3moose]

The ms6 isn't performance looking and has sort of a bland interior but it is right up there with the others in power and awd. I am sure someone will turn this luxury vehicle into a fast and worthy competitor.

[jersey_emt]

I am sure someone will turn this luxury vehicle into a fast and worthy competitor.

I hope to be that person. But I'll let the test drive make my decision.

[mp3moose]

trading the msp in when they hit dealers?

[jersey_emt]

If the price stays under $30K, I can get a decent trade-in, and the test drive is good, yes.

[Necessity]

Maybe a better comparrison would be S4 to Ms6? The 6 is incredibly heavy and has options that weigh it down even more. It has no rally breeding and the base is a fwd, LARGE sedan, with tendancies to understeer like crazy. The volvo r as well.

So I would try to put up something like - Volvo s60 R vs. S4 sv. ms6

[mikeyb]

Maybe a better comparrison would be S4 to Ms6? The 6 is incredibly heavy and has options that weigh it down even more. It has no rally breeding and the base is a fwd, LARGE sedan, with tendancies to understeer like crazy. The volvo r as well.

So I would try to put up something like - Volvo s60 R vs. S4 sv. ms6
A better comparo would be the MSP6 vs Altima SE-R. The S60 R and S4 out of the MSP6 range as for price and market segment.

[Necessity]

Altima Se-R is fwd right? The volvo rs resale is almost as bad as the 6. People on the volvo forums are finding them used for 26k

[thunder]

The Mazda6 MPS will be AWD (active torque split, all-wheel-drive system) and turbocharged and the engine (inline 4) will have direct injection. Torque is quite amazing (380 Nm @ 2000Rpm --> 5000Rpm flat curve). The chassis will be more than 50 percent stiffer.

At this point I would like to know how it will compare against a series 3 Bimmer 330xi and I wouldn't be surprised if that was indeed Mazda's objective

380 Nm = 280,27 Lb/Ft

[jred321]

the only real competition in the price range for the ms6 out right now is the legacy gt. the s4 and volvo are a bit expensive. the altima se-r is probably in the class too, but lacks awd, which puts it at a disadvantage around here in winter. i'd have to test drive to compare, but the legacy gt is a pretty sweet car, so the ms6 better be good to compete

does the current 4 cyl model use direct injection? just curious, direct injection is sweet, that's what all cars should use

[mikeyb]

Altima Se-R is fwd right? The volvo rs resale is almost as bad as the 6. People on the volvo forums are finding them used for 26k
Yes the Altima is FWD. I feel the S60R isn't in the same class as the MSP6. The MSP6 would be better at competing with the Legacy GT, next gen Passat w/4motion, and the Accord Type R if it was available here.

Its not a highend entrylevel sportsedan like the BMW 3 series and Audi A4. But it can run with them for sure. The base 6 handles like a E46 3 series.

[thunder]

the only real competition in the price range for the ms6 out right now is the legacy gt. the s4 and volvo are a bit expensive. the altima se-r is probably in the class too, but lacks awd, which puts it at a disadvantage around here in winter. i'd have to test drive to compare, but the legacy gt is a pretty sweet car, so the ms6 better be good to compete

does the current 4 cyl model use direct injection? just curious, direct injection is sweet, that's what all cars should use

That's what I got:

"In European specification, the all-new MZR 2.3 DISI TURBO motivates the four-door sedan with an estimated 191kW (260 PS) of power and 380 Nm of torque. The introduction of a direct-injection fuel system to the turbocharged engine infuses the already powerful acceleration that is expected of turbo performance with ample torque in the low and mid range to deliver excellent response, while also realizing lower emissions. A six-speed manual transmission will be the only gearbox available in all markets"

I forgot to mention that the gearbox is new but road tested to match Miata's smoothness (the 6 speed)

[mp3moose]

holy crap.....lets just compare it to everything since there doesn't seem to be a definate niche that it is in.

[mp5jeff]

That's what I got:

"In European specification,
main words in that paragraph...

[CustomMSP]

Too bad mazda can't produce some supportive rear seats :( All mazda sedans have flat rear seats.

[Newf]

screw the seats, I want a decent intercooler

[thunder]

main words in that paragraph...

Oups... Who knows what we'll get then!

[thunder]

screw the seats, I want a decent intercooler

The pictures I've seen of the M6 intercooler will probably shock you then :) It's a weird top-mounted unit but there is no air-scoop (à la WRX)!, the air seems to be forced in from the front grille and heped in by the shape of the new hood

[Newf]

The pictures I've seen of the M6 intercooler will probably shock you then :) It's a weird top-mounted unit but there is no air-scoop (à la WRX)!, the air seems to be forced in from the front grille and heped in by the shape of the new hood
well if it works, good. But if it works as good as my speed....not good.


Here's my 2 cents on this thread. This is pretty much all a given.

Type of potential buyer:

EVO/WRX = racer boy image, import fan, rally fan, real auto enthusiast

Mazdaspeed6 = Much more mature, conservative adult with a bit of the above in him/her but doesn't want to show it as much. Not willing to sacrifice luxery for pure raw performance. What's a combo of both sport and practicality.


I think they are completely different cars. I think the MAzdaspeed 6 will appeal to the M3 wannabe owners that can't afford them. The Legacy is also a good comparison and another fine ass car. The Acura TL being another similar type of car.

I'd love to have a M3. But, if I'd rather save my money and get the MAzda honestly, as long as it's a RELIABLE TURBO, and doesn't hesitate, buck, hiccup, stutter, or whatever you want to call it that is so common in Mazdaspeeds.

[1sty]

well if it works, good. But if it works as good as my speed....not good.


Here's my 2 cents on this thread. This is pretty much all a given.

Type of potential buyer:

EVO/WRX = racer boy image, import fan, rally fan, real auto enthusiast

Mazdaspeed6 = Much more mature, conservative adult with a bit of the above in him/her but doesn't want to show it as much. Not willing to sacrifice luxery for pure raw performance. What's a combo of both sport and practicality.


I think they are completely different cars. I think the MAzdaspeed 6 will appeal to the M3 wannabe owners that can't afford them. The Legacy is also a good comparison and another fine ass car. The Acura TL being another similar type of car.

I'd love to have a M3. But, if I'd rather save my money and get the MAzda honestly, as long as it's a RELIABLE TURBO, and doesn't hesitate, buck, hiccup, stutter, or whatever you want to call it that is so common in Mazdaspeeds.
I have to disagree. Most of the guys I know with either a EVo or STi are anything but boy racer types. The EVO crowd maybe closer but I don't know many or hang out with their groups so I don't know. Most of the people I know with STi's are over 25, don't street race and if they do hook up the car they do so very cautiously. Overall I would say we tend to be mature power junkies. The reason the STi really works for us is because nothing else built as well has the same power to offer for neer this price. Also it is alot more utilitarian then the RX-8 or 350Z so people with famies can have it as a primary vehical. Personaly, I would have liked to go with a Mazda 6 or even an acura TSX if either had the power I was looking for. I am really not a big fan of feeling every little pit in the road anymore nor do I need to carve the hell out of corners. However the all wheel drive, 4 doors, and sick power I can't get enough of (thumb)

The funny thing is there are alot of people putting on front mount intercoolers and then swapping off the wing and hood scoop on their STi's. I want to do the same. Like me I think these guys were just looking for power and utility and these are the only vehicals offering it. Alot of us want something less F&F style and often something more luxurious too. I know I am getting sick of the STi seats and would like WRX leather seats instead.

If the MAzdaspeed 6 can prove reliable and a good enough performer then I will likely be scoping it out.

[mp3moose]

If the MAzdaspeed 6 can prove reliable and a good enough performer then I will likely be scoping it out.
And giving your STi to me.

[AZDriftR]

where can i see a picture of this thing???? the car is already a heavy bitch, that AWD set up is goingto make it a tank! hopefully that motor is worth a shit so it can make some real power to keep up. And the 6 speed tranny sounds NICE!

[swopey]

A better comparo would be the MSP6 vs Altima SE-R. The S60 R and S4 out of the MSP6 range as for price and market segment.
They make an Altima SE-R? I did not know that.
Had a Sentra SE-R and it rocked in the speed and handling departments. The interior build quality sucked though so i traded it for my 6S.
Although i still miss that little rocket sometimes. It would stomp my 6S on a highway run or light to light race.

[swopey]

But to answer the question i say EVO over WRX
They tested them side by side (car and driver i think) and they are basically the same car but the EVO handled better and put up SLIGHTLY faster times in the test because of it.
But i wouldn't trade my 6S for anything but the MS6. I have gotten use to the luxury and room in it and now have no desire to go back to a compact car except for auto X type stuff.

[Da 6]

But i wouldn't trade my 6S for anything but the MS6. I have gotten use to the luxury and room in it and now have no desire to go back to a compact car except for auto X type stuff. I feel the same way....but with this damn auto tranny I'd give it up for a legacy 2.5 limited GT or legacy STi(if it was available)

[swopey]

I feel the same way....but with this damn auto tranny I'd give it up for a legacy 2.5 limited GT or legacy STi(if it was available)
Yeah i looked at the WRX when i was looking for a car, but could get a lot more for my money with the 6S. I also am stuck with the auto tranny due to work and long trips home to PA a few times a year. Manual was just too much shifting in local traffic.

[PR5Matt]

Weight will be the deciding factor. The Mazda chassis and engine are much better than the other two.

I will own one...

[theGeneral]

MS6 isn't in the same class or cars as the STi or Evo.

[theGeneral]

Weight will be the deciding factor. The Mazda chassis and engine are much better than the other two.

I will own one...


Opinion maybe?

[thunder]

If this new M6 MSP is too expensive or whatever, one could always choose the V6 and get the Japanese Atenza Touring Kit A-Spec!
http://www.mazda.co.jp/mazdaspeed/

[PR5Matt]

Opinion maybe?
Yea, opinion, but just drive one (a regular 6) and see.

The 2.3 Mazda/Ford engine has tremendous future potential.

Just opinions, granted, but I am sure many will agree.

[Imp]

As someone said earlier.... this is going to most likely be a direct contender to the Subaru Legacy GT and not the WRX/STi/EVO. You can get into a GT for $25-$28K.... I would think that the MS6 would also be in the same exact ballpark.

Think 'Family Sedan'. STi/EVO are hardly a family sedan. :)

And on that note... I just sold my WRX wagon.... eyeing an RX8 right now.

--KC

[Da 6]

wait for the twin scrolled RX-9 man

or at least this one

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~greghess/mazdaspeed8.jpg

[Newf]

i still love that car!

[Mikey444]

I love this car, and as soon as I can get my hands on one, it's done :D. the only downside is that I have to wait 3 years(rant)

[UberCaff]

Evo > Sti > Rx-8 > Ms6

[Da 6]

FYI 6s mtx just barely sniffs the ass of rx-8 (Us Spec 1st production that is)