How-To: VTCS Removal and Porting

[magnumP5]

Also did you clean the egr while it was out?
No, I didn't. I had originally planned on it but it took over 6 hours to get it off and the other on - I was done with it. I just don't see how it would an egr issue if it ran fine before. Either way, from the egr fix thread I guess I can get the egr off without taking the IM off again? I guess this might be something I will be doing next weekend.

For all those who did the vtcs removal, did you have to clean the egr afterwards as well? If so, how hard was it?

[Black_Protege_5]

You don't have to but ppl say it helps. I did mine but my idle only improved a little. My only guess is a slight leak. The egr wouldn't cause that low of an idle.

[magnumP5]

Ha yea. It happened to me at first. Check all of the lines and make sure there are no leaks. Mine was coming from the throttle body. If everything is fine try removing the Neg terminal to reset everything then when you start up the car turn on almost every electical item. Turn your air full blast, headlights and anything else that uses power for about 5 mins. What this will do is make your ecu learn to the point that when you have your headlights and everything it nows hows to proper distribute power so it won't effect your idle. Plus when everything is off your car will stay around a perfect 800rpm and with air and lights it will be around 700 instead of the 200-300 you are getting now. If you need help with anything just pm me and I can help you out.
Heh, I didn't catch this post. Well I never removed the lower IM so I shouldn't have a leak around the TB. I tried to make sure every bolt was tightened but I was afraid I would over torque one and then be screwed so maybe some have a little bit they can still go in. Is that wast caused your leak - just a bolt or nut that wasn't completely tight?

For vacuum lines I'm pretty sure I checked everything and I even had two other people there to make sure. I figure that if a vacuum line were loose it probably would be stalling out a lot and I've yet to do so.

Also, about your "fix" how long has it been since you've done that? I have heard people have had their ecu's "reset" back to the lower idle rpm after a while.

Also, did you remove and clean your egr? Did it seem like it needed it because I thought that was mainly for the MSP guys. If you did it, did it seem to help?

EDIT: Anyone have torque specs for the IM bolts, both to the head and the bolts connecting the upper and lower halves?

[Black_Protege_5]

My EGR was dirty as hell. It took about 5 mins for the carb cleaner to stop coming out black.

I had one Vac line not connected and actually it didn't effect the idle at all. I did this about 3 months ago and the idle never lowered and it has actually been stable surprisingly.

Make sure all of the bolts are hand tight. They should be around 20lbs I believe (don't have my book with me). But you did use a new gasket for the lower tank?

My first leak was because I used silicone for my tb and there was a gap. So I put more of it and then it was fine.

[magnumP5]

My EGR was dirty as hell. It took about 5 mins for the carb cleaner to stop coming out black.

I had one Vac line not connected and actually it didn't effect the idle at all. I did this about 3 months ago and the idle never lowered and it has actually been stable surprisingly.

Make sure all of the bolts are hand tight. They should be around 20lbs I believe (don't have my book with me). But you did use a new gasket for the lower tank?

My first leak was because I used silicone for my tb and there was a gap. So I put more of it and then it was fine.
I got a new gasket for the IM/head connection but I re-used the metal gasket between the upper and lower halves because it looked like it was fine (unlike the original head/Im gasket which was stuck to the upper half when I removed it). I guess I'll just have to check all my torques and then do that ecu reset thing and if it persists I guess an egr cleaning and maybe a new metal gasket down the road when my hands are healed...

[Black_Protege_5]

lol. Try removing the whole intake mani. Will make things a lot easier. If you need anymore info let me know.

[magnumP5]

lol. Try removing the whole intake mani. Will make things a lot easier. If you need anymore info let me know.
Cool thanks. I looked up the manual at protege5.ugly.net and the torque specs look like 19-25 N m or 14-18 in lbf, those seem right? I guess I'll just check all the bolts and lines and then do the ecu thing you mentioned and hopefully that will help because I don't have the time to remove the whole thing again. Also, just to make sure, with the gasket, the side that has the little bump/ridge on it faces the IM and not the head, right? Thanks for all the help.

[Black_Protege_5]

Yea that is right with the gasket. And the torques seem right. Put them around 18lbs since its the old gasket to make sure it fully seals. If its not working after all of this let me know.

[magnumP5]

Small update. I checked all the bolts I could (without completely taking everything apart) and all bolts were torqued to 18 in lbf or more and I also did the ecu reset with all the accesories on. Unfortunately neither of these seemed to help so I am guessing I probably have a gasket issue. I tried power water all around the IM to see if I could locate any leaks (didn't have carb cleaner or anything) but I did not see any bubbling nor did the engine try to stall or anything. I think the leak is either where the upper IM connects to the lower IM or at the bottom of the IM where it connects to the head (places I could not test). I am going to stop by Mazda and buy a new metal gasket and replace the IM/head gasket again as well just in case I managed to rip it (some bolts were over-torqued). I'm going to try to clean the EGR as well although that shouldn't be the issue. I am also going to go to a shop and have them check it out once I have all the gaskets and hopefully they can help out with this.

The only other thing I think could be wrong is maybe I messed up the throttle cable or something when trying to put the upper half back on. It's funny because some times the idle runs fine and others it doesn't. Yesterday morning I thought it was going to stall out but yesterday afternoon it seemed almost normal. When I went out last night it barely stayed at 200 RPM with the clutch in but this morning it stayed right around 600 the whole time. I hate to say it but this might be something I'll have to take to Mazda (oh God)...

[flat_black]

200 rpm? Are you sure you're reading the tach right? The first tick mark, just above 0 rpm is actually 500 rpm, and your engine will stall below that, nearly without fail.

For that matter, the carb cleaner is done to see if there are any vacuum leaks. When you go over the manifold spot that may have a vac leak, the idle should jump up. Really, the gasket should be cleaned off, a new one should either be procured, or just use gasket sealer. Preferably copper or red. I used red personally.

[magnumP5]

200 rpm? Are you sure you're reading the tach right? The first tick mark, just above 0 rpm is actually 500 rpm, and your engine will stall below that, nearly without fail.

For that matter, the carb cleaner is done to see if there are any vacuum leaks. When you go over the manifold spot that may have a vac leak, the idle should jump up. Really, the gasket should be cleaned off, a new one should either be procured, or just use gasket sealer. Preferably copper or red. I used red personally.
500 RPM? Oh wow, I never realized that before. My engine pretty much goes down as low as it can before the CEL/oil pressure/check battery lights would come on (the ones that come up when you stall out) but it's almost like the ecu catches itself and bumps it back up. This doesn't happen continuously but every once in a while and is noticeable enough to be annoying. For the gaskets I had a new one for the head/IM connection but I resued the metal gasket between the IM halves. It seemed to be in good enough condition (it still had the little bump-thing) and it wasn't sealed before so I figured it'd still be good to use again - that may have been my problem. Either that or a reassembled everything in a bad order - which could be it. Are you supposed to start at the middle and work your way out to the ends with the bolts/nuts just like with an exhaust manifold? Looking back, I probably should have put the IM halves back together and tightened everything down first, then attach it to the head in the order I explained above. I guess I'll have to try this later when my hands are healed from the first removal...

[PlatinumMSP]

just an update for you guys... my turbo was leaking oil so I had to return my car to stock, two days ago I bought an intake manifold that was already ported and had the vtcs removal, it should be here on friday, hopefully will be installed on saturday, if Brian could help me out with it that is...

[Boston5761]

anyone have a mani for sale that has already had the vtcs removed?

[magnumP5]

anyone have a mani for sale that has already had the vtcs removed?
I have a regular IM for sale - I know you said one with VTCS already removed but it really isn't a very hard process to remove them yourself.

[Laser03pro]

I will be starting on this hopefully this week.

[Velocifero]

i might be able to hook you up shortly, but It isn't finnished yet

anyone have a mani for sale that has already had the vtcs removed?

[Boston5761]

sweet! An you're local...(ughdance)

[Laser03pro]

Got mine ported only took me an hr now I just have to go over it with a finer grit.

[Velocifero]

Got mine ported only took me an hr now I just have to go over it with a finer grit.
you should gasket match it since you have it off

[Laser03pro]

Its finished now I went over it with 80 now all I need to do is fill the holes.

[flat_black]

Unless your Protege is turbocharged/overly built, I wouldn't suggest gasket matching, perse. While it can allow greater laminar flow at higher RPM, at lower RPM, the velocity loss will be substantial. Just an FYI. Looks good, Laser. =)

- Eddie

[Laser03pro]

you should gasket match it since you have it off I opened it up pretty much alrdy if I go much bigger it wont really help neways cause the rest of the port is alot smaller.

[nocar]

http://www.***************/product_p/sufsim.htm

Is what you did to your manifold the same as what they are selling on ********** and some other sites?

[flat_black]

Naw. That's a whole different manifold. =) Those never had VICS/VTCS.

[Laser03pro]

Just got my intake cleaned up and my fuel rail comes tomorrow.

[DarKrID3r]

im installing mine tomorrow. i only bought a sapre higher part. hopefully it will be easy and i will catch up and do the right things.

i would like if you guys could tip me or show pics on how to remove - reinstall the higher part of the intake

ill be checking here tomorrow morning, then i'm doing it.

thanks in advance

[DarKrID3r]

ok guys you gotta help me now... ive removed every freakin screw on top so i can pull out my intake (upper part only)

its freaking jammed. ive been working on this for 4 hours right now. it took 20 mins to remove screws, and now its been like 2 hours since ive started trying to remove the fucking intake.

ITS STUCK

help me next step is a fire torch.. but it would be a fucking stupid idea since my fuel line had spread fuel everywhere so everythings going to blow if i do this..

help... fast

[PharmacyMSP]

i say torch it.

j/k bump.

[flat_black]

Uhh... Did you crawl under the car and loosen/remove the support bracket for the bottom of the manifold? If not, you won't be able to move the top at all, as the studs on the upper portion of the manifold will pin it in place. Lift the front end, crawl under, remove the two bolts on the bottom of the manifold, and the two on the block, then shift it around 'till it pulls up and back, past the studs on the head.

[DarKrID3r]

i forgot 2 bolts on the engine-vtsc part. the one under the first and last air entry.

then i had to remove the 2 fucking huge bolts under the car. no choice, else it wont move enought to be able to pull it out..

when i put everything back on, I forgot the spacers that make the end of the injectors tight in the engine, so i had crazy problems. i put them back on, and one injector had a broken O ring, and there was gas everywhere.

anyways, it took my whole freakin day. but next time i'd be able to do it in like an hour.

my car idle smoother, and i hear the response at 3500+++

nice shit.

prolly going to port the throttlebody soon?...(maybe)

[iluvmacs]

What are you going to do to the throttle body? I haven't inspected it to see if there are casting imperfections or other buggers in there. I'm not interested in needing a larger diameter butterfly.

[Laser03pro]

Got mine all done and installed tonight but had 1 problem that really sucks. I have a perrin fuel rail and when I went to plug in the injectors I couldnt you have to plug them in first then put the rail on. So I go taking the injectors back out and 1 was really tight cause the oring had a spot in it and I ended up ripping a chunk out of it. Now I have to wait till monday to get a o ring from the dealer ughhhhhhh!! Other then that I didnt have any problems.

[DarKrID3r]

haha. read my stuff i had the same problem with an Oring. HOpefully, i'm a paintball player and Orings are my friends :)

[Yaggie1]

Hey Darkrid3r, so you did just remove the upper part of the intake then and not the whole thing ? I'm gunna do mine here pretty soon as was hoping to just remove the top portion.

[DarKrID3r]

you can remove only the top portion of the intake, but you have to remove the 2 huge screws underneath the Low part or the manifold. you will understand why when you'll come to it..


HELP::::::
When i start my car, it takes like 4 seconds before it starts. i know mazda are slow starting cars, but its freakin slow. when i removed my injectors yesterday there was fuel everywhere, so i put a little bit of water on the intake manifold... ill check if theres water on the spark plugs, then i,ll reset the ECU...

if its not helping... WHATS WRONG?! :(

[nocar]

darkside i have no idea how to help you out but you said you hear it at 3500rpm+, thats cool that its louder, but do you feel any noticeable gains?

[DarKrID3r]

well i had a small 2inch¼ CAI that i replaced with a 3Inch AEM , at the same time as i put my ported intake...

but its freaking loud, the sound is amazing. and for the gains, well i'd say its gives tork at high rpm mostly, but the accelaration are more aggressive!!!

crazy stuff.

[DarKrID3r]

and for my problem, well i guess my oring i put to replace the chunked one is too small. :S.. fuel-air leaking i guess, thats why it smells :S

ill check that monday

[Laser03pro]

Any one want to buy my extra mani I will port it if you like.

[diegosurfer5]

ok so i am new to this what exactly does this do if you remove it?? please help me out i have seen a couple of people talking about it and am confused i havea 2002 protege5.

[Black_Protege_5]

It basically opens up the runners on the intake mani allow for more air and power.

[diegosurfer5]

Any body in the SD area done this before thinking about doing would like some help from some one who has done it before. please let me know

[DarKrID3r]

hey please help. im still getting problem with it done
i replaced my 4 oring injector because they were chunked.

but now everytime i start my car, if it hasnt started in the last 6-8 hours, well when it starts it goes up to 1500 rpm (to heat the engine for couple of senconds, then goes back to 700-800) , but instead of that, it starts, goes at 1700 rpm for like 1 second, than it goes down to 300-500 RPM. if i push on the gas pedal it goes back to normal.

i dont believe its an EGR issue, since it doesnt happen when im idling at any other time. please help? :(

[Kansei]

300-500? I thought the first line on our tach was 500, so you can't even really see 300.

Just tapping the gas pedal once makes it totally normal after that? When the car is fully warmed up does it still idle that low?

[Maxx Mazda]

hey please help. im still getting problem with it done
i replaced my 4 oring injector because they were chunked.

but now everytime i start my car, if it hasnt started in the last 6-8 hours, well when it starts it goes up to 1500 rpm (to heat the engine for couple of senconds, then goes back to 700-800) , but instead of that, it starts, goes at 1700 rpm for like 1 second, than it goes down to 300-500 RPM. if i push on the gas pedal it goes back to normal.

i dont believe its an EGR issue, since it doesnt happen when im idling at any other time. please help? :(

Did you remove your VTCS and plug off the nipple on the solenoid with a cap? That's your problem. Vacuum leak, or a leak in the intake tract somewhere.

[Black_Protege_5]

Yea you have to have that one vaccum line only going to the vics solenoid which is the one with the white dot and you have to get 2 nipples to plug the vtcs solenoid.

[DarKrID3r]

well I have my 2nd solenoid going to the vtcs, but i didnt put that thing that makes the vtcs move, i just used glue and a screw to fill the hose.

and this happens only once every like 10 hours (if i havent used the car for a long time) and NO it doesnt idle that low any other time afterwards

[DarKrID3r]

but IMO it seems like an Injector problem or something? i dunno

or maybe i have to screw tighter the injector rail? (how tight they must have to be tighten?)

when you say the solenoid, are you talking about the Mistubishi electronic part, or the thing that is moving? because i dont have that VTCS thing that is moving, i cutted before that point.

[Black_Protege_5]

There are 2 nipples on the solenoid. One facing up and the other facing the firewall. The solenoid is the plastic mitsu part. The part that moves is the actuator.

[DarKrID3r]

ok, so on the noid theres the part going to the actuator, and the thing thats coming from the intake ( which is splitted between the 2 noids )

so i have to unplug the vtcs noid from that thing?and only leave the vics with an input pressure? i thought that leaving an imput pressure on the vtcs also, and using a nipple to fill the output of the solenoid would do?

[Black_Protege_5]

Yea. You can leave the actuator plugged into the the solenoid but block off the input line. And that line that split into both solenoids should now only go into the vics solenoid. Also make sure the all the bolts are tight on the intake mani. Any small leaks can effect your idle.

[DarKrID3r]

ok thanks a bunch. but why do i have to cap the output of the noid if theres no Input air?

[Black_Protege_5]

It still reads off for some reason. I thought the same thing but I kept getting a check engine light but once I plugged it it went away.

[DarKrID3r]

well i tried that and i still got a freaky startup idle :S. its better tho, but its fucked up. as soon as i give a little gas its OK, but im worried about this winter, when ill start the car earlier, i dont want it to have ups and down idling like crazy

ill try to reset the ecu

[Maxx Mazda]

Ok this is WAY too easy. You need:

1 vacuum nipple cap.

That's all! Just cap off the VTCS solonoid on top, (you can leave it hooked to vacuum from where it is T'd in.)

But Leave the electrical connector plugged in or u will get a CEL.

[DarKrID3r]

ive done that the day i installed it.

this is not the problem.

[magnumP5]

I've had this done now for about a month. Cold starts are going to be rough because you have removed something from your manifold on which the ecu thinks is working properly. When I start my car it goes to about 2k RPM then drops to normal - faster than what it did with the VTCS but normal nonetheless. My idle is a little more erratic but what do you expect when you're allowing more air into your engine than what was originally intended. Basically, what I am saying is that your car is going to run like crap until it gets warmed up - even more so if you've removed the TB coolant lines like I have. I see it this way, you can either start your car 10 min. early and let her warm up or just drive around at or above 3k RPM until she's warmed up. I get all sorts of weird hesitation and things when she's cold but as soon as I hit 3k RPM or once she's warmed up she runs just fine. Oh yeah, I an assure you I do not have any vacuum leaks - it's been checked by my shops and by certified Mazda techs and a Mazda dealership (it was fun explaining to them what I had done, but they checked it out for me for free anyway). If it means anything, I actually still have the VTCS actuator still plugged in but it isn't connected to anything (just hanging there). When that's my little rant...

For those who don't want to read: Removing VTCS will cause funny idle and rough driving when car is cold due to larger than average initial airflow.

[FSCatalyst]

Accck... The comments of the erratic idles are turning me off. Is this mod still worth it to the ones that couldn't fix their idle problem?

[DarKrID3r]

well id say yes anyways

[DarKrID3r]

but my idle problems when cold is more like going from 2k to .4k on and on again, until i give a little gas!

so im worried about the fact that if i start my car one morning to heat it a little, well its going to do that crazy idle thing for all the time i had it running, just until i put my foot on the gas pedal.

[iracemine]

iracemine checks this of his mods to do list...

[Maxx Mazda]

It will run like crap when it's cold, but its worth it. These cars warm up in like 2 mins anyway, even in the winter. After I went turbo though, my cold start issues were gone. (Probably replaced by other issues.)

[Mike R]

1 minute or better of warmup time gets rid of the cold drive away issues. Also other mods have a big effect on the drivability. I recently put my car back to stock (took off the Injen and HKS Hiper). The cold driveaway is almost completely gone.

[DarKrID3r]

ok i finally just freakin hate my cold start shit. it stalls like an anus for like the first 30 seconds. i hate it.

i think its because there is too much AIR vs too few gas.
i was wondering if i change my injectors to have more gas at first.
OR
buying an mp3 ECU to have a better gas timing

any ideas? im going back to stock next week if i dont find an issue

[Black_Protege_5]

I don't have any cold start what so ever. My idle runs high from the minute I turn it on till I turn it off. Since I did this my idle stopped getting low and have gotten less engine vibration. I don't know why ppl are having so many problems. Mine started great the first time and is still running great.

[iracemine]

i here your pain. but have you takin the time to make sure theres no vacum leaks or all the sensors are ok. did you use new gaskets?? i hate to have you put the flaps back in just have the cold start problems still after its back to stock.

[DarKrID3r]

i here your pain. but have you takin the time to make sure theres no vacum leaks or all the sensors are ok. did you use new gaskets?? i hate to have you put the flaps back in just have the cold start problems still after its back to stock.


gasketSSS?

i thought there was only 1 gasket? i bought a new one for this ya..

is there anyother gasket?

[Black_Protege_5]

Well did you remove the whole intake mani or half. Either way you will have 2 gaskets. The one going to the head either way and if in half the gasket between the upper and lower half needs to be replace or the TB gasket if you removed it whole. You could do with just silicone for the throttle body but thats it. And make sure you have everything tight.

[DarKrID3r]

well i took out only half, i had to unsrew the tbody, i removed it but i dont remember seeing a gasket there?!

any tips pics or anything?

[Black_Protege_5]

You don't remember seeing a gasket in which spot?

[Black_Protege_5]

Here are the pics of the tb, lower intake tank and header.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/mazda-protege-intake-manifold-gasket-mazdaspeed_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33668QQihZ01 5QQitemZ250027281243QQrdZ1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/mazda-protege-intake-manifold-gasket-mazdaspeed_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33668QQihZ01 5QQitemZ250027282041QQrdZ1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/mazda-protege-throttle-body-gasket-mazdaspeed_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33668QQihZ01 5QQitemZ250027283140QQrdZ1

[iracemine]

yeah and each one has a specific direction it should be facing when put back in!!!!!!!!! just check the owners manual. but defiantly need all three

[DarKrID3r]

ill try to check these... but they are probably already there. i know for sure that i changed the green one, going to the engine*.

but if there was a leak, i would be all time, not only when i start the car?..%!!"$"

[Black_Protege_5]

How cold is it where you live and what is it like when you start it. My car never drops below 900 when cold and in gear. In Neutral it is around 1000-1100rpm. And when warm its about 700rpm.

[DarKrID3r]

How cold is it where you live and what is it like when you start it. My car never drops below 900 when cold and in gear. In Neutral it is around 1000-1100rpm. And when warm its about 700rpm.

well if the car is not heated, if it hasnt been used for like 8 hours or so. its like 15 outside, but it happened when it was 25 outside also.

when it starts it goes at like 2k, then it drops to 500- or lower - then it goes to 1.7k.

if i put the gas to the floor when it starts, the engine drowns, IMO : too much AIR, not enough gas.. the car also hesitate when its cold outside, after the startup.

after like 2 mins or driving, its normal, idle at 700-800. STABLE, 100% stable( i ve had egr problem in the past with my older protege i know what its like)

maybe theres a problem with the header manifold, not letting enought air go through as its not hot enough, or maybe not enough gas coming out from my injectors.


:S :cry:

[Black_Protege_5]

Yea that is much colder than what I have. For me outside is like 60 degrees. I guess I can't really figure out whats wrong without seeing it.

[iracemine]

*puts up defenses from tuning geeks* i think whene your engine is cold it runs off a closed ecu mode... so it still sounds like you have an air leak. cus when the engine hits proper temp your ecu will have an open loop and then compensates for the increase in air to fuel ratio.. maby. im also going off you stating no cel, so sensors should be all ok. there isint all that to much o go wrong here unless you fuged up an injector. in wich peolpe should not scare from this mod its simple and worth it!!! (for me it was free)
*wating to be corrected*

[DarKrID3r]

well i had to play a lot with my injectors since all the oring in them were broken.

and btw when i say 15, 20 or whatever, thats in C, not in F.

[Black_Protege_5]

oh. So what is that in F. Did you try removing all of your injectors and cleaning them.

[DarKrID3r]

how do you clean your injectors?im scared about removing them and having the orings chunk again. mazda sold 4 orings for $20 lol. $5/each oring thats a pain in the ass

anyways, tell me it might be the problem. :)

[PlatinumMSP]

since I've installed my vcts intake manifold my idle has been FUCKED UP. It idles normal, and then the rpms suddenly drop and the car almost stalls. And comes up to the low rpms again. And it does so randomly every 10 seconds or so at idle with the car fully warmed up!!! Everything else on my car is stock again, i fucking put everything back to stock, trying to figure it out. Its the intake manifold or something to do with it. Help guys?

[Kansei]

Any CEL when this is happening?

It sounds like a "simple" vaccuum leak to me. Check your lines for cracks if you're sure they're all connected.

[PlatinumMSP]

Any CEL when this is happening?

It sounds like a "simple" vaccuum leak to me. Check your lines for cracks if you're sure they're all connected.

yeah i checked all the lines, i threw a CEL the other day that said "too lean" I took off my injen cai and it hasnt come on since though... The car is at the dealer, i've got 700 miles left on the warrenty, I figure that I'd give it a shot

[Black_Protege_5]

If you aren't doing anything this sat come to a mini install meet this sat. I will try to fix everything for you. But you will need to buy new gaskets and the dremmel pieces just incase.

[DarKrID3r]

you lucky guys :S. i havent fixed mine yet.. im sure that putting an mp3 ecu will give more gas on startup and will fix my too lean problem.

when i start the car it stalls the 1st and sometimes the second time.

too lean. :S

[PlatinumMSP]

you lucky guys :S. i havent fixed mine yet.. im sure that putting an mp3 ecu will give more gas on startup and will fix my too lean problem.

when i start the car it stalls the 1st and sometimes the second time.

too lean. :S


i'm getting the too lean light too

[PlatinumMSP]

If you aren't doing anything this sat come to a mini install meet this sat. I will try to fix everything for you. But you will need to buy new gaskets and the dremmel pieces just incase.

I might just do that man, we'll see what the dealer says first though... its still in the shop... I'm 4.5 hours away right now at college but if that is what it takes to get my car running right then so be it.

[Black_Protege_5]

Isn't san luis obispo near Santa barbara?

[PlatinumMSP]

Isn't san luis obispo near Santa barbara?

Its 1.5 hours past santa barbara, I just got a call from the dealer, they told me that I need a new wastegate, i've got a rental car comming my way... thank god for the warrenty

[Black_Protege_5]

would a wastegate cause stalling?

[PlatinumMSP]

would a wastegate cause stalling?
well its a giant vacume leak, so yeah it seems that way, we'll see when I get the car back

[Black_Protege_5]

And you sold all of your parts.

[PlatinumMSP]

And you sold all of your parts.
yup except for the Greddy Type RS

[Black_Protege_5]

lol. What parts did Rob buy.

[PlatinumMSP]

lol. What parts did Rob buy.
he didnt buy any of them actually, I gave him my old intake manifold for helping me out, he's porting it and selling it to rnajera

[Black_Protege_5]

lol. So who bought your exhaust and FMIC

[PlatinumMSP]

lol. So who bought your exhaust and FMIC

His name is ForcedBoost on the forum, lucky bastard. He's going to love his parts... man I already miss them sooo much. Alright lets stop this thread jack for now.. I gotta get to class and then go pick up POS rental car, later man

[Black_Protege_5]

Have fun. I will just sit here bored at work. Then I get to go to skool tonight.

[DarKrID3r]

hey guys you remember my problem? the car would start and stall, or the car would stall if i give a little gas on startup,

too much air flow compared to the fuel ratio.

my hypothesis was good, i calculated that putting an MP3 which air-fuel ratio on startup is a little different, would fix it..

WELL YES!

SO GUYS IF YOU GET ISSUES LIKE THIS, GET YOUR HANDS ON AN MP3 ECU instead of wasting $$$ in checking leaks and stuff.

im pretty pleased with it now. finally i can drive without thinking about the fact thta the car stalled when i started it couple of minutes ago ;)

have a nice day. if you have questions, feel free to ask

[iracemine]

cool!!!!!!! congrats!!

[Guitarcrazy]

First time poster .. long time reader.

Well yesterday I started the vtcs job, etc. removing the manifold/tb. I also had purchased a Outlaw Engineering spacer kit .. figured I do them at the same time.

After trial & error, after measuring the steel pipe (after praying for the strength of Samson ...) managed to move that a mighty 1/4". :)

That was about 7 pm. So I finished getting everything back together today. Went to start the car .. and instead of the 'normal' idle .. I got 3500 rpm @ start. Which dropped to about 2200-2400 in sporadic intervals (best description for the uneven revving of the engine .. rough idle). Before I rip this thing apart again, any one have any experience or ideas of what might cause that?

In the Outlaw instructions .. it says you may have to adjust your throttle cable length. I haven't been able to find any information on exactly how to go about doing that (in the downloadable manuals). That might account for the high idle speed.

The kit contained both the thick 'plastic' (my generic term for it ...) gasket, as well as two, paper like gaskets for each side. I didn't use any sealant .. which I'm now thinking was a big mistake.

I'm fairly certain (I did take pictures during ...) that I didn't miss any vacuum lines or electrical connections putting it back together (it looks complicated .. but as you are familiar .. everything is spaced to fit perfectly .. making it almost idiot proof :)

As far as the manifold itself .. I took a little different route. Instead of completely removing the vacuum actuator (sp) & bar, I opted instead to just unscrew the butterfly pieces (in case I change my mind). I did do the porting while I had it out (was really surprised at the ~ 1/8" lip on the bottom side that needed to be removed). Really only did just the bottom .. as I felt that it caused the biggest restriction to the air flow.

Thanks to all for this great forum.

[PlatinumMSP]

First time poster .. long time reader.

Well yesterday I started the vtcs job, etc. removing the manifold/tb. I also had purchased a Outlaw Engineering spacer kit .. figured I do them at the same time.

After trial & error, after measuring the steel pipe (after praying for the strength of Samson ...) managed to move that a mighty 1/4". :)

That was about 7 pm. So I finished getting everything back together today. Went to start the car .. and instead of the 'normal' idle .. I got 3500 rpm @ start. Which dropped to about 2200-2400 in sporadic intervals (best description for the uneven revving of the engine .. rough idle). Before I rip this thing apart again, any one have any experience or ideas of what might cause that?

remove your plastic cover and spray carb cleaner around the intake mani and the lines and see if the idle changes, if it does, then you have a vac leak, when i did mine I didnt torque the manifold down enough and it left a huge leak

In the Outlaw instructions .. it says you may have to adjust your throttle cable length. I haven't been able to find any information on exactly how to go about doing that (in the downloadable manuals). That might account for the high idle speed.

The kit contained both the thick 'plastic' (my generic term for it ...) gasket, as well as two, paper like gaskets for each side. I didn't use any sealant .. which I'm now thinking was a big mistake.

I'm fairly certain (I did take pictures during ...) that I didn't miss any vacuum lines or electrical connections putting it back together (it looks complicated .. but as you are familiar .. everything is spaced to fit perfectly .. making it almost idiot proof :)

As far as the manifold itself .. I took a little different route. Instead of completely removing the vacuum actuator (sp) & bar, I opted instead to just unscrew the butterfly pieces (in case I change my mind). I did do the porting while I had it out (was really surprised at the ~ 1/8" lip on the bottom side that needed to be removed). Really only did just the bottom .. as I felt that it caused the biggest restriction to the air flow.

Thanks to all for this great forum.

[DarKrID3r]

i just ported another intake. its the 5ft i have done so far.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/DarKriD3r/porting/100_1743.jpg

nice mod. keep it to the top its a freakin nice project to do

[iracemine]

explain g-star raw.

[DarKrID3r]

explain g-star raw.

haha

g-star raw .. i got that at one of my friend's clothing store. gstar are expensive clothes (well for me 200-300 is expensive for a pair of jeans)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/DarKriD3r/porting/100_1753.jpg

[turbo fs-2.0]

All Protege's with the 2.0L FS-DE engine come with VTCS and VICS, except the MP3, which only had VICS. The 1.8L is still an unknown, and the 1.6L doesn't have even remotely the same manifold.

Japanese models of the FS engine don't have it, nor the ones in Australia, according to Twilight.

That's as far as I know. =)

If you take a picture of the top of your intake manifold, I can tell you for sure, or you can take a look, and see if you have two electrical connectors connected to solenoids on top of the manifold, to the left a little. One will be green, and one will be white. If you only have the white one, then you just have VICS; If you have the green one too, you have VTCS and VICS.
The 1.8 FP-DE has no VTCS it's has only VICS

[Kansei]

soooo. I have 6 of the 8 vtcs butterfly screws out. The other two are stripped >_< >_< >_<

argh. How bad would it be to leave two of the vtcs butterflies on (two cylinders in a row) and have two removed.. I could put the other two back on but I really don't feel like it.

[BlkZoomZoom]

Cut them off if they stripped. Or use a dremel and grind them off.

[Kansei]

^^ yeah I was probably going to go at them with the dremel. I'm taking a break while my drill is getting a bit of a charge back in it. sucks that I don't have any jb weld otherwise I'd remove the rod tonight too. All of my gaskets were crazy dried up though so I think I'll buy some gaskets and when they come in I'll take it apart again and get the rod out.

[iracemine]

or take a pair of vise-grips and clamp on to the heads of the screws and wala.

[Kansei]

yeah I can't find any of the 4 pairs of vice grips I have.. :P

[sephiroth]

All Protege's with the 2.0L FS-DE engine come with VTCS and VICS, except the MP3, which only had VICS. The 1.8L is still an unknown, and the 1.6L doesn't have even remotely the same manifold.

Japanese models of the FS engine don't have it, nor the ones in Australia, according to Twilight.

That's as far as I know. =)


pardon me if this has already been said.. I didn't take the time to read all 25pages of this wonderful thread. However, I can confirm as a 1.8L owner, that it has the exact same IM as the 2.0L, VTCS and VICS and all.

[iracemine]

cut them off with a pair of diagonal cutters. that way you will bea able to get the flaps of and then be able to get the rod off.

[mazdaspeedwerx]

by removing the vcts do you lose low end power? if it does then why do it?

[Kansei]

by removing the vcts do you lose low end power? if it does then why do it?

Why would you lose low end? the VTCS butterflies are only closed when the engine is cold, and when they are open they are a restriction in the flow at all RPMs. every bit of air has to go past the rod/butterflies.

[mazdaspeedwerx]

so no low end power is lost. thats cool. maybe I was thinking vics

[Kansei]

Yeah vics is the dual length runner system, those you definitely don't want to remove.

[mazdaspeedwerx]

thank God for people that pay attention in school

[Kansei]

thank God for people that pay attention in school

Wish I could.. most of my posts on these wonderful forums are posted while I should be doing something in class >_<

[Crazee D]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=98785
Pics of my porting

[i'm broke]

what's the power and driveability difference between this removal procedure and just buying one of the manifolds from protegegarage?

[Kansei]

what's the power and driveability difference between this removal procedure and just buying one of the manifolds from protegegarage?

I haven't seen any dyno tests from the protegegarage intake manifold on a non-turbo car but I would imagine it would be a power reduction. The protegegarage manifold is missing not only VTCS but VICS as well, and VICS is what gives us power down low (rpm-wise) as well as up high.

[i'm broke]

thx, kansei. now, would forced induction sway the decision either way? i don't have a turbo yet but i plan to in the future.

[PlatinumMSP]

you will get more power out of a 626 manifold on a turbo car than you will with just the vcts removal and porting

[i'm broke]

thx, platinum. my decision is made

[Black_Protege_5]

the 626 mani is not designed the same as the FS mani so like what Platinum said it would benefit turbo more. This removal is just to improve air flow but it make a huge diff. At the highend you feel a little but for those that don't know what you are doing don't try it. If you don't get it back on right you can have idling issues and other stuff.

[mazdaspeed777]

Subbing, will be doing this soon

[mazdaspeed777]

Could you guys reccomend a good dremel tool(brand, what kind) to get for this job?? Also could you port and pollish the throttle body? Would it make a difference??

[Black_Protege_5]

I used the cheapest dremel I can find from home depot and they have all the bits. Don't spend a lot on something you won't use very often.

[mazdaspeed777]

Yah I think I am going to get the a multi speed craftsman since I will be using it a lot. So has anyone done this to the throttle body??

[FL_PR5]

alright i'm in the garage now trying to get the stock one off so i can put the one i ported and polished on but the ride side wont budge. i checked about 5 times all the bolts are disconnected that i know of. any suggestions? i sprayed liquid wrench on the right side bolts and wholes to try to losen it up. just trying to switch it out before it gets dark. thanks.

[magnumP5]

alright i'm in the garage now trying to get the stock one off so i can put the one i ported and polished on but the ride side wont budge. i checked about 5 times all the bolts are disconnected that i know of. any suggestions? i sprayed liquid wrench on the right side bolts and wholes to try to losen it up. just trying to switch it out before it gets dark. thanks.
There is a support bar underneath the intake manifold that helps hold it in place. Even if you're just removing the top half you still have to remove this brace so you can move the IM off the studs.

[Kansei]

Yeah there's no way to get just the top to come loose, both halves have to move.

If I understand correctly you're swapping the entire manifold? I'm not sure if you need to remove the bolts between the two halves to achieve that, but I always have.

[iracemine]

i just used a specialized bit on my drill.

[FL_PR5]

ha. ^

i removed the 2 bolts between the halves. and i couldn't find a support bar underneath it. i was just trying to remove the top half.

thanks anyways though.

[Kansei]

The support bar is pretty obvious.. it's a big steel bar going from the intake manifold to if I recall correctly the block. If you can see the bottom of the intake manifold from underneath, you definitely can see the brace or where it should be. It bolts into the intake manifold with two bolts from underneath.

[FL_PR5]

oh. well i wasn't going for underneath the block and car view. i was only trying to take off the top IM part. so i never got under the car.

[mazdaspeed777]

Well looks like you might have to go under the car. That area is a pain to work on. I just cleaned my EGR valve under the throttle body and I about lost it trying to get to the two bolts that hold it on. Eventually I just planted one foot inside the engine bay.

Well not to change the subject but has anyone port and polished there throttle body? Are the walls on the throttle body thick enough to bore some of it out to make a larger diameter inside?? Also is there any Porting you can do to the lower porsion of the IM to get any better performance??

[mazdaspeed777]

I am removing my intake manifold right now and we are stuck on how to remove the throttle cable?? Can anyone help us on this ASAP!

[Kansei]

You just have to pivot the end of the cable and then push that metal thing on the end to either the front or the back

[musiclikscreams]

one of these days i'm gonna get the time to do this.
any dyno's?
how does this compare to protegegarage.com's single runner IM?
are there any cons to this?
i appologize if i've re-asked any questions

[iracemine]

protegegarage's single runner is not the same thing. close, but no. with the single runner you lose bottom end. and you should run a mp3 ecu if you live where it gets cold. diy your intake and leave the actuater in and pluged in and youll have the bottom and al littil more upper. and hard starts if you live were it gets realy cold. if you want numbers get the PG intake, mp3 ecu, and dont mess around. hes got them ready to go.

[DeadGeneration]

Maybe I don't understand... but if you let the car warm up to the right temperature and launch the car at above 3k RPM than VTCS will never effect your performance.......

[mazdaspeed777]

Maybe I don't understand... but if you let the car warm up to the right temperature and launch the car at above 3k RPM than VTCS will never effect your performance.......

It's enough to scatter the air a bit, plus if you do the port and polish you remove two ledges behind the VTCS. So its not mutch but it helps, aspecially if your staying NA like me every bit helps.

[DeadGeneration]

Ya i've been reading MP3 reflashes, intake mani modifications or replacements, Combined with stand alone ECU, headers, C02 intake and fuel coolers....makes you feel silly after awhile

[iracemine]

silly? no. having fun, yes.

[Hydron]

If not already posted, here is a guide to remove the intake manifold
http://www.nsnmotorsports.com/docs/thermal.html

[MSP2003.5_Nick]

Got my mani off now and just started porting after threading and plugging the hole. Great guide man!

Also, I'll agree that if you want to truely unlock your top end then get the 626 PG mani, but I mean I dont really have 300 to blow on that, there are more important things performance wise that for me need to come first. So in the meantime it'll be way better than nothing. Plus it keeps me busy during the winter down time ;)

[blackdragon11]

Does anyone have the howto for this since the link is broken?

[jhillzoom]

Here ya go...

[flat_black]

Oh, yeah... Sorry guys, the guy who owned the domain decided to give up on it. =) So, yeah. The PDF is great, though! I'll upload it to my new site, if you don't mind.

[blackdragon11]

awesome, thanks!

[drumslayer]

So if I'm an idiot just let me know but what is the VTCS, and would removing it without porting the intake do anything for me?

[blueprotegelx]

bump...plan on doing this mod in the future!

[blueprotegelx]

mani in hand and manifold is already apart and butterflies out and waiting to be ported! spacer will soon be purchased and installed for summer

[blueprotegelx]

question???? do i remove the butterflies where the lower and upper manifold connect and can i port that as well? any pics?

[flat_black]

That would be your VICS system, so without an aftermarket ECU, if you plan on removing it, you'll have a pretty bad flat spot from excessive volume when it's supposed to be closed, and another where the velocity should kick up substantially, so I'd suggest leaving it in place. BUT. You can take the opportunity to smooth out all of the surfaces you can reach, just avoid where the butterfly is supposed to seal, since that would be distinctly problematic in forming said seal. Remember, on a stock manifold with stock-ish EMS, most port jobs should be kept light, since cavernous ports mean reduced velocity, unless you're pushing a whole pooload of air, say, with a hairdryer (EG, turbo/supercharger) or something to that effect.

Err... I guess I should learn to shorten my answers. Don't remove those butterflies, and if I wouldn't bother porting there, were I you. =)

[KZL_99ES]

just found this and don't want to loose it since thing of doing removing vtcs, subbing

[BinoMP5]

great... the weekend i want to do it the link doesnt work...

[NDM-SPEC]

Umm... is there anyway to get that link at the beginning working and does removing th VTCS trip any check engine lights or anything like that???
thanks,
tyler

[FunkRider]

As far as I can tell the non-california spec emissions 1.8 99-00 cars use the same manifold as the MP3 without VTCS.

[danielschweer]

Umm... is there anyway to get that link at the beginning working and does removing th VTCS trip any check engine lights or anything like that???
thanks,
tyler

page 9

[flipmode815]

is there any benifits or negitives on removing the VICS?

[Demoniam]

If you read this thread, it has been stated multiple times that you DO NOT WANT to remove your VICS. ALL you would possibly need to do to those is LOCTITE them, so they never come out.

oh, and this is a bump

[thevi3t1]

um the link is dead or something...

[SoonP5ismine]

for those of you that want to save some time i have located the pdf of this how-to. its in reply # 129 on page 4 if you are viewing this forum with your settings set for 40 posts per page. here it is -> http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1805886&postcount=129

Thanks ALL for contributing to this somewhat confusing topic (vics/vtcs). I will attempt to do this this sunday as i have a screw in my cylinder so i have to take the intake off anyway to get it out.

[PR5speed]

If I were to just remove the butterflys, and not the runner, would I get a noticeable gain? seems like the runner itself wouldn't obstruct the airflow too much. - don't feel like going to the trouble (and money) of tapping it out.

[StealthWyvern]

If I were to just remove the butterflys, and not the runner, would I get a noticeable gain? seems like the runner itself wouldn't obstruct the airflow too much. - don't feel like going to the trouble (and money) of tapping it out.

you could just zip strip or put a one way check valve in the vac line to hold it open and yeld the same results.

[buttthrax]

If I were to just remove the butterflys, and not the runner, would I get a noticeable gain? seems like the runner itself wouldn't obstruct the airflow too much. - don't feel like going to the trouble (and money) of tapping it out.

You would lose torque on the low end and gain absolutely nothing. It has to do with harmonics.

[iluvmacs]

If I were to just remove the butterflys, and not the runner, would I get a noticeable gain? seems like the runner itself wouldn't obstruct the airflow too much. - don't feel like going to the trouble (and money) of tapping it out.

Not worth the time. If you're going to take off the intake manifold, pull the whole thing out (I assume by "runner" you mean the rod that the butterflys attach to), plug the holes, and smooth out the ports.


you could just zip strip or put a one way check valve in the vac line to hold it open and yeld the same results.

That will throw a CEL on the computer.


You would lose torque on the low end and gain absolutely nothing. It has to do with harmonics.

You're referring to VICS, not VTCS.

[Velocifero]

Not worth the time. If you're going to take off the intake manifold, pull the whole thing out (I assume by "runner" you mean the rod that the butterflys attach to), plug the holes, and smooth out the ports.



That will throw a CEL on the computer.



You're referring to VICS, not VTCS.

As long as the electricals are still plugged in correctly you shouldn't. I have the vac ports off the solenoids plugged up and no CELs. Several years now.

[justanothermp5]

me too, as long as the electrical senders are plugged in there wont be a CEL

edit nvm i think that the one way check valve will def cause a CEL, but that would be dumb, just remove the butterflies

[StealthWyvern]

That will throw a CEL on the computer.

a code but not a CEl(never triped the light)... I have put a check valve on both the VIS and VTS playing around and never received a CEL due to it.


me too, as long as the electrical senders are plugged in there wont be a CEL

edit nvm i think that the one way check valve will def cause a CEL, but that would be dumb, just remove the butterflies

It never caused a CEL the month I drove with it using a check valve... now their was a code in the system but it never kicked the CEL on for some reason. Then again I just had teh check valve hold the thing open and the other end of the vac line was disconnected at the sender.

[Lewis7789]

Just finished the VTCS removal, port/polish and painted the intake mani black. Whew! What a pain... I removed the intake mani friday afternoon/night. Port/polished it and waited for the JB Weld and paint to dry saturday and finished installing it today (sunday). Probably took me a good 10-12 hours total.

Fired up the car and the idle was high, but it's 40' degrees here. The idle came down to about 1k rpm and dipped down to about 300rpm twice once it warmed up. I triple checked everything before pulling out onto the road. Drove it nice and easy around the block twice and everything seemed fine. The idle is still a little jumpy from 1000 to about 700rpm but still pretty smooth. Then I ran it WOT down the road and you guys aint kidding, it just pulls and pulls now! Everything after 4k rpm just screams. I've also got an MP3 ECU so I'm sure that helped.

Was it worth it all? Yes. Hopefully the idle with smooth out in a couple days after the ECU adjusts to the new map. Great write up!

[SoonP5ismine]

i have been running without vics and vtcs for over a year now. because of vics removed my bottom end is a bit weaker but it seems alot smoother throughtout the entire rpm range. it doesnt have that sudden boost feel int the 5300 or whatever it is range like it did before the removal. so if anyone is looking for a smooth acceleration and not really concerned with loosing a little on the bottom end then i recommend doing it. as far as me, well i ams till looking for 1 good vics butterfly as my sig shows and i will put it back in but i will leave the vtcs out. vtcs does raise the warm up rpms slightly but they go back to normal once warmed up

[Velocifero]

i have been running without vics and vtcs for over a year now. because of vics removed my bottom end is a bit weaker but it seems alot smoother throughtout the entire rpm range. it doesnt have that sudden boost feel int the 5300 or whatever it is range like it did before the removal. so if anyone is looking for a smooth acceleration and not really concerned with loosing a little on the bottom end then i recommend doing it. as far as me, well i ams till looking for 1 good vics butterfly as my sig shows and i will put it back in but i will leave the vtcs out. vtcs does raise the warm up rpms slightly but they go back to normal once warmed up

I might have one. Next time I am in my shop Ill look for it.

[SoonP5ismine]

I might have one. Next time I am in my shop Ill look for it.

that would be great if you do. i was gonna take the 3 that i still have that are good and take them somewhere to see if someone can make one somehow. but i really dont know who could to that and have it match the other 3 exactly.

[Lewis7789]

Well I think I've got a leaky vacuum line or something. My motor is still idling really rough and choppy, even after its warmed up. I've checked all the hoses and theyre all tight. I don't have a CEL and it drives okay, it does seem to stutter just a bit while driving and at a normal rpm around 2k. And usually when I turn off the motor and open my door I can hear the hissssss from the AEM air intake. Now its a really short "hisss".

Any ideas???

[Velocifero]

Well I think I've got a leaky vacuum line or something. My motor is still idling really rough and choppy, even after its warmed up. I've checked all the hoses and theyre all tight. I don't have a CEL and it drives okay, it does seem to stutter just a bit while driving and at a normal rpm around 2k. And usually when I turn off the motor and open my door I can hear the hissssss from the AEM air intake. Now its a really short "hisss".

Any ideas???

You've never noticed the hiss? Mine has hissed since I bought my CAI in November of 2004. It should just be the last of the air escaping, but if it is a totally new sound for you try spraying carb cleaner around all the junctions to see if there is a leak anywhere.

[SoonP5ismine]

Well I think I've got a leaky vacuum line or something. My motor is still idling really rough and choppy, even after its warmed up. I've checked all the hoses and theyre all tight. I don't have a CEL and it drives okay, it does seem to stutter just a bit while driving and at a normal rpm around 2k. And usually when I turn off the motor and open my door I can hear the hissssss from the AEM air intake. Now its a really short "hisss".

Any ideas???
i had a bad egr valve and my engine been behaving erratically

[Lewis7789]

No, I've always noticed the hiss but it was much longer before I did the VTCS removal, thats why I am thinking a leaky vacuum line. If a line is leaking, the hiss will be shorter, not the usual long one coming from the air intake. But I'll try the carb cleaner around the hoses, I assume I'm looking for bubbles?

I just cleaned my EGR valve last summer (apparently it didn't need a cleaning because it's always idled fine) and cleaned it again while I had it apart this weekend. But I'll double check it tomorrow.

Thanks for the info guys!

[SoonP5ismine]

No, I've always noticed the hiss but it was much longer before I did the VTCS removal, thats why I am thinking a leaky vacuum line. If a line is leaking, the hiss will be shorter, not the usual long one coming from the air intake. But I'll try the carb cleaner around the hoses, I assume I'm looking for bubbles?

I just cleaned my EGR valve last summer (apparently it didn't need a cleaning because it's always idled fine) and cleaned it again while I had it apart this weekend. But I'll double check it tomorrow.

Thanks for the info guys!
you wont see bubbles on vacuum lines but you will notice a rpm change if the carb cleaner gets sucked in to the intake as a result of a hole in the line.
as far as the egr cleaning well in my situation when i cleaned my egr valve the trouble came back after 2000 miles if i remember correctly so at that time i ordered a new one and now i have about 55000 miles on it and no problems at all so far. my original lasted 50000 miles.

[Lewis7789]

Well, I tried using nipple plugs like a lot of people said on the VTCS solenoid and hose-T and it seemed to help, but my irratic idle is still there. After resetting my MP3 ECU, it ran smooth at 900rpm for about 3 minutes then started loping and bouncing again. It dropped to 200-300rpm and almost stalled but it bumps itself up everytime it does that. I've been driving it to/from work since sunday and its been idling rough the whole time. I'm debating on buying the EGR valve at Autozone for $150 just to see if that would eliminate the problem. I visually checked all my hoses and they all look good and not cracked or anything.

But if this is the kind of idle I have to live with to have a non-VTCS intake mani, screw that.

[MS_Rick]

My cars idle acts the same way ever since I started adding HP parts to
it etc. Peeps in here say get the car tuned - that should solve the problem.



Well, I tried using nipple plugs like a lot of people said on the VTCS solenoid and hose-T and it seemed to help, but my irratic idle is still there. After resetting my MP3 ECU, it ran smooth at 900rpm for about 3 minutes then started loping and bouncing again. It dropped to 200-300rpm and almost stalled but it bumps itself up everytime it does that. I've been driving it to/from work since sunday and its been idling rough the whole time. I'm debating on buying the EGR valve at Autozone for $150 just to see if that would eliminate the problem. I visually checked all my hoses and they all look good and not cracked or anything.

But if this is the kind of idle I have to live with to have a non-VTCS intake mani, screw that.

[justanothermp5]

the EGR may not be tight enough
mine had a vac leak from the EGR seal, because one bolt wasnt tight enough
had a crazy idle like what your talking about, and it even stalled once or twice
tightened the bolt and it went away

[MS_Rick]

as for me I bought a new egr valve with gasket did not do nothing for me
I guess it depends on the car.. these babies have the own individual problems

[Lewis7789]

Well, I'm going to try the carb cleaner trick tonight even though I checked all my hoses yesterday for cracks but they all looked good. There was a whistle while I was driving though, I could hear it when the throttle was just barely open. It's somewhere behind the TB. I'm going to tighten the shit out of those EGR bolts after I clean it again. It would be so nice to have a normal idle again. My car idled perfectly before I did this mod, now it's rough as hell. Kinda makes me wish I never did it...

[Velocifero]

No, I've always noticed the hiss but it was much longer before I did the VTCS removal, thats why I am thinking a leaky vacuum line. If a line is leaking, the hiss will be shorter, not the usual long one coming from the air intake. But I'll try the carb cleaner around the hoses, I assume I'm looking for bubbles?

I just cleaned my EGR valve last summer (apparently it didn't need a cleaning because it's always idled fine) and cleaned it again while I had it apart this weekend. But I'll double check it tomorrow.

Thanks for the info guys!


you wont see bubbles on vacuum lines but you will notice a rpm change if the carb cleaner gets sucked in to the intake as a result of a hole in the line.
as far as the egr cleaning well in my situation when i cleaned my egr valve the trouble came back after 2000 miles if i remember correctly so at that time i ordered a new one and now i have about 55000 miles on it and no problems at all so far. my original lasted 50000 miles.


Well, I'm going to try the carb cleaner trick tonight even though I checked all my hoses yesterday for cracks but they all looked good. There was a whistle while I was driving though, I could hear it when the throttle was just barely open. It's somewhere behind the TB. I'm going to tighten the shit out of those EGR bolts after I clean it again. It would be so nice to have a normal idle again. My car idled perfectly before I did this mod, now it's rough as hell. Kinda makes me wish I never did it...

Easily could be a little pin hole in a line that goes un-noticed, but I doubt that would cause this major of a problem. What did you use to seal the end of the IM on the passenger side where the VTCS rod exits? Try covering that as air tight with your hand or anything that could make it as air tight as possible. Are you confident that the head to IM flange is as flush as it should be? Same with TB? It is almost like something is creating a pretty big hole somewhere. Check the brake booster line especially, mine would slip off my vacuum manifold and it'd idle crazy, but I also lost the power brakes at that point, but maybe if you just have a large hole somewhere there it might not be effecting the brakes.

[bermankahns]

does anyone have a working link to the write up? the one on the first post isn't working for me.

[BadBandar]

^^Check pg 9

subin

[bermankahns]

thanks. figures i stopped looking at page 8.

[FLIPOTTAWA]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123798242-Need-help-asap

Are you guys getting rough idle like this???

Im trying to figure out what the hell the problem is.

[883sportie]

How do i remove the bar once i remove the butterflies.... how do i plug the holes

[Lewis7789]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?82884-How-To-VTCS-Removal-and-Porting/page9
Post #129. Open the PDF and all the info you'll need is in there.

The bar slides out, it's just a little sticky. Try wiggling while twisting with a pair of channel locks. Which holes do you mean? The one for the solenoid or the holes from the butterfly rod? I filled the rod holes with QuickSteel. I took my IM off about 3 months later to install my rear motor mount and noticed 3/4 of the QuickSteel plugs were gone. So skip that step. I removed the rest of the plugs and ran my motor like that for about a year without any issues.

[883sportie]

I removed my VTCS lastnight and now my car wont idle... any body have any solutions to this???

[Lewis7789]

Check to make sure the intake mani is bolted down nice and tight, same with your throttle body. And check for vacuum leaks.