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View Full Version : do the Electric superchargers work??



Branden3i
09-24-2004, 02:15 PM
i recently went to www.esuperchargers.com and they claim that by building this "supercharger" you can gain up to 30hp. and i was wondering if anyone else had read about this, if it really works, and if so how hard is it to build one???

Captain KRM P5
09-24-2004, 02:16 PM
by and large, no, these do not work

Branden3i
09-24-2004, 02:19 PM
why?

willy65000
09-24-2004, 02:49 PM
why?


Looks like a scam to me. I did see one in the back of Car and Driver not to long ago that looked a little more legit though. A super charger needs to spin fast in order to make Power. I not exactly an expert on forced induction but my thoughts electric superchargers are that a cars electrical system probably can't provide enough juice to spin a supercharger fast enough to make lot's of HP. Any expert opinions on this one?

badAzLava3
09-24-2004, 05:32 PM
They don't move enough air.

30hp is probably 4 psi of boost.

These electric guys might give you 2 on a good day, with a tail wind.

Branden3i
09-24-2004, 05:36 PM
they said it goes at 28,000rpm

badAzLava3
09-24-2004, 05:49 PM
My Dremel turns 50,000 rpm. It still doesn't move any air.

Its a lot smaller than an average leaf blower, a leaf blower and even a hair dryer move air, but neither have a lot of pressure.

From their ad, it shows them using all of the existing ducting, and looks like it bolts on right behind the MAF.

There isn't a single real turbo or supercharger on the market that reuses the existing ducts, they all use steel, aluminum or reinforced rotomolded abs piping with big posi-torque clamps. Plastic ducting won't hold boost. And if it was making boost, they would have to use something a bit stronger than a 79 cent hose clamp.

It looks exactly like the boating sump pumps someone was selling on e-bay for a couple of years claiming all sorts of ungodly performance.

Do what you like, it's your right to spend money however you want.

Branden3i
09-24-2004, 05:51 PM
not gonna i just wanted to know if it was real??

mp3moose
09-24-2004, 05:54 PM
Plastic can't handle those speeds. It would melt. Talk about junk flying into your throttle body and engine when that thing breaks after two weeks.
Besides, anything promising large HP gains that costs $14.95 is complete crap. Hell, I wouldn't buy it for 200.

Mazda3ofKent
10-04-2004, 10:10 PM
Here is is a real eletric supercharger
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight/

goldwing2000
10-05-2004, 10:29 AM
Cool article.

mazdaspeedpower
10-05-2004, 10:35 AM
Plastic can't handle those speeds. It would melt. Talk about junk flying into your throttle body and engine when that thing breaks after two weeks.
Besides, anything promising large HP gains that costs $14.95 is complete crap. Hell, I wouldn't buy it for 200.
So you'd rather be scammed for $200+ instead of $14.95????? ;)

goldwing2000
10-05-2004, 11:09 AM
So you'd rather be scammed for $200+ instead of $14.95????? ;)

I think not. I trust the Knight unit to actually deliver what it promises.

Not that I'm going to rush right out and buy one, though...

rodslinger
10-05-2004, 08:08 PM
i recently went to www.esuperchargers.com (http://www.esuperchargers.com/) and they claim that by building this "supercharger" you can gain up to 30hp. and i was wondering if anyone else had read about this, if it really works, and if so how hard is it to build one???Heck yeah it works... Didn't you check the dyno?

Go get one of these too...
http://www.k-g-racing.com/lot_usa/turbo.html

Thomas Knights work has been questionable to a lot of different people. I haven't seen it myself so I can't comment, only pass on what I have heard. What I wonder is how much does that electric setup of his weigh? That might mitigate some of his power claims...

2K3 MSP
10-05-2004, 08:14 PM
Keep in mind that just because it says "up to 30hp" doesn't mean you'll make that much. If it said "at least 30hp" or "gain a minimum of 30hp". Chances are it'll only be 5 at most. Especially on a car like ours.
Just say no.
Look at this graph. First of all, the link says it's for a '98 Civic SI. They didn't make a Civic SI in '98. They brought them back in '99. The dyno graph itself looks like it says '96 EX. Next, it doesn't even say whether the car is stock other than the supercharger or not. Look at the HP & tourque #'s. That doesn't look anything like any Civic I've ever seen, SI or not.

http://www.esuperchargers.com/images/dyno_civic_e2charger_kit.jpg

mp5jeff
10-05-2004, 08:15 PM
lol, its funny when i see people say "the dyno shows power it must work", do you realize how easy it is to fake a dyno?? :D

rodslinger
10-05-2004, 08:20 PM
lol, its funny when i see people say "the dyno shows power it must work", do you realize how easy it is to fake a dyno?? :D
I know. I was hoping my sarcasm would get picked up but it's hard to convey in text sometimes....

mp5jeff
10-05-2004, 08:49 PM
damn

rodslinger
10-05-2004, 09:25 PM
i recently went to www.esuperchargers.com (http://www.esuperchargers.com/) and they claim that by building this "supercharger" you can gain up to 30hp. and i was wondering if anyone else had read about this, if it really works, and if so how hard is it to build one???
Branden,

Word of advise. Most if not all of this 30hp for $29.95 is going to be a scam. There is no miracle product that gives you these power gains, fuel economy improvements, etc.. for next to nothing. I'm not saying that a bigger and better widget might not come along. What I am saying that is for the most part, if it was that easy, Mazda (performance out of your car, stick to what really works.... Intake, header, exhaust, cams, forced induction, dropping weight, etc... Gimmicks are just that, gimmicks.

Most of all, have fun with the car but don't waste money chasing ghosts. It's unfortunate but a lot of companies are out to take your money with no regard to the quality or accuracy of their claimed power gains.

THEGOLDPRO
10-05-2004, 10:02 PM
UMMMM YEA!!!
http://homemadeturbo.com/tech_projects/el_blower/index.html

Mazda3ofKent
10-06-2004, 01:55 PM
I think not. I trust the Knight unit to actually deliver what it promises.

Not that I'm going to rush right out and buy one, though...
My problem with the Knight unit is that its just the blower, no pipeing no power ,supply no ,ecu, if you could find someone to install it you would spend about 2k on the support systems. Let not forget the battery array will add wight. But is it came as a kit and was about 3k i would get one

goldwing2000
10-06-2004, 02:22 PM
Agreed. It would definitely be a logistical nightmare to install it on our little canbus system.

But hey... whaddya want for a couple hundred bucks? (bang)

I think those lightweight batteries he had wouldn't slow you down too much.

Da 6
10-06-2004, 02:34 PM
also take this one into considration...lil more instal friendly for you guys ;)

http://www.electricsuperchargers.com/products.htm

Mazda3ofKent
10-06-2004, 10:03 PM
Heck yeah it works... Didn't you check the dyno?

Go get one of these too...
http://www.k-g-racing.com/lot_usa/turbo.html

Thomas Knights work has been questionable to a lot of different people. I haven't seen it myself so I can't comment, only pass on what I have heard. What I wonder is how much does that electric setup of his weigh? That might mitigate some of his power claims...
He mentions that on the his webpage, battery pack is not a huge wait gain. real problem is the team of eltrical enginers you will need to install i

greenman
10-06-2004, 10:06 PM
well,

I've always heard that an electric supercharger in any form, be it a boat blower to the better ones, are a waste of money. They just can't put out the pressure, from what i understand, they can blow lots of air, but not actually make any real boost, like a fan pretty much. THey just can't exceed the flow that the engine is already taking in.

BUT, i think that in some time, there will be some advances and maybe they might actually be "do-able" in a few years time. I wonder what type of motors these guys are using and if they've tried using the new BRUSHLESS motors. These are still fairly new and $$$$$$$$ expensive, but they put out around 6000 rpm/volt. so 12 volts, if that's what'd run off (i don't know much bout this stuff) would be up around 72000 rpm and they are STRONG and very efficient and durable. From what I understand they kinda work like a normal motor in reverse in that the armature or whatever you call it is fixed and the rest of the motor spins.

Any thoughts or am i just too burnt????

peepsalot
10-06-2004, 11:01 PM
Garrett is developing an electrically assisted turbo charger to help spooling. That would be the shiznit.
http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/auto_technology/2001/8/blow_hard/index3.phtml

goldstar
10-06-2004, 11:48 PM
well,

I've always heard that an electric supercharger in any form, be it a boat blower to the better ones, are a waste of money. They just can't put out the pressure, from what i understand, they can blow lots of air, but not actually make any real boost, like a fan pretty much. THey just can't exceed the flow that the engine is already taking in.

BUT, i think that in some time, there will be some advances and maybe they might actually be "do-able" in a few years time. I wonder what type of motors these guys are using and if they've tried using the new BRUSHLESS motors. These are still fairly new and $$$$$$$$ expensive, but they put out around 6000 rpm/volt. so 12 volts, if that's what'd run off (i don't know much bout this stuff) would be up around 72000 rpm and they are STRONG and very efficient and durable. From what I understand they kinda work like a normal motor in reverse in that the armature or whatever you call it is fixed and the rest of the motor spins.

Any thoughts or am i just too burnt????Sounds like you're talking about squirrel cage induction motors. As you state, they have no brushes and are highly efficient but require AC or chopped DC to operate. They will not operate on straight DC. On some of the newer diesel-electric railroad locomotives that use these types of motors, the diesel engine drives an alternator whose AC output is rectified to DC. The DC is then sent through an inverter which produces a chopped DC waveform which is sent to the motor whose speed and torque are controlled by a combination of voltage level and pulse width. If such a motor could be used, perhaps it would be possible to feed it with a line tapped off the alternator before the rectifier diodes?

goldwing2000
10-07-2004, 09:50 AM
well,

I've always heard that an electric supercharger in any form, be it a boat blower to the better ones, are a waste of money. They just can't put out the pressure, from what i understand, they can blow lots of air, but not actually make any real boost, like a fan pretty much. THey just can't exceed the flow that the engine is already taking in.

With the fan-style units, I would definitely agree with you. But I think since Knight actually uses a roots-type supercharger, not some little plastic fan, then there's a good possibility that it really works.

greenman
10-07-2004, 12:27 PM
Yeah i think we're talking about the same thing. I do know that you need a special kind of ESC to operate them so that sounds about right.

I looked around and found a company that makes them and it looks like they're used in everything from RC cars to F18 fighter jets :)

I just don't know if they'd work in this application, but if electric motors can move a train, then there's gotta be a way right????

PeteyBoy3K
10-11-2004, 04:13 PM
Cool article.

supercharger on a BEETLE (old!?)

"I threw v belts every 30 seconds or so"

sounds about right ^_^

aircooled supercharged... I'd hate to think about THOSE emissions

wasn't there something about an electronically assisted turbo-spool in the upcoming mazdaspeed RX-8?

djltoronto
10-11-2004, 10:56 PM
Anyone had any experience with this brand?
http://www.electricsupercharger.com/
After reading this thread, I thought I'd do a little research to see what I could come up with and in my opinion (just an opinion), these guys have the best story/claims.
I was most impressed after finding the patent on the United States Patent and Trademark Office (http://www.uspto.gov/index.html) and reading the actual test results (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,328,024.WKU.&OS=PN/6,328,024&RS=PN/6,328,024) (near bottom of page) from the patent application (I don't think those can be easily doctored), I'm convinced that this is the best of the "Electric superchargers"

I would love to hear from someone who has had actual experience with it!!

It draws 57 amps, and their HP gain claims seem to be realistic.

Video of the E-RAM demonstrating enough thrust to lift itself, and blowing a Duraflame log along the floor Video (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/eRAMvideo.mpg)
Video of the E-ram inflating a 40 gallon garbage bag (demonstrating volumetric flow) Video (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/eRAM%2040gal%20bag%20explode.mpg)
Video of a 2 HP leaf blower inflating that same bag Video (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/eRAM%20vs%202hp%20shopvac%2040gal%20bag.mpg)

Their claims "IMMEDIATE and FULL 1psi BOOST AT ANY ENGINE RPM! - 0 TO 25,300 RPM in 1/10th SECOND (activated by an NOS-type switch at Wide-Open Throttle). Why Wide-Open Throttle only? Click here for complete explanation (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/faqs.htm)
SAFE FOR YOUR ELECTRICAL SYSTEM: High current for short duration is drawn directly from your battery, not your alternator. Just like your starter motor.

DOES NOT RESTRICT YOUR INTAKE when not in operation (air-flow through 3.5" dia. e-RAM is equal to a 3 inch diameter intake tube).

EASY TO INSTALL IN MINUTES! Comes pre-assembled and pre-wired, ready for mounting, with easy-to-follow instructions and picture examples.

WORKS ON ANY ENGINE up to 5.0 liters! *see selection guide for your car* (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/selectionguide.htm)

Even has a US Patent #6,328,024 B1 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,328,024.WKU.&OS=PN/6,328,024&RS=PN/6,328,024)

Da 6
10-11-2004, 11:01 PM
yeah My co-worker showed me that I was like whatever but maybe I'll let my guard down when I see it in person....

djltoronto
10-11-2004, 11:08 PM
yeah My co-worker showed me that I was like whatever but maybe I'll let my guard down when I see it in person....
But the patent test result have to carry some wieght...
they must intrigue you to some degree

Da 6
10-12-2004, 01:09 AM
lil more than the ebay 22hp chip...Let me see someone with it on the car. Maybe it's just me but I like having the hi pitch gearing noises. Anyone figure out the pcm coding for the ETB yet?

Mazda3ofKent
10-12-2004, 10:08 AM
Anyone had any experience with this brand?
http://www.electricsupercharger.com/
After reading this thread, I thought I'd do a little research to see what I could come up with and in my opinion (just an opinion), these guys have the best story/claims.
I was most impressed after finding the patent on the United States Patent and Trademark Office (http://www.uspto.gov/index.html) and reading the actual test results (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,328,024.WKU.&OS=PN/6,328,024&RS=PN/6,328,024) (near bottom of page) from the patent application (I don't think those can be easily doctored), I'm convinced that this is the best of the "Electric superchargers"

I would love to hear from someone who has had actual experience with it!!

It draws 57 amps, and their HP gain claims seem to be realistic.

Video of the E-RAM demonstrating enough thrust to lift itself, and blowing a Duraflame log along the floor Video (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/eRAMvideo.mpg)
Video of the E-ram inflating a 40 gallon garbage bag (demonstrating volumetric flow) Video (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/eRAM%2040gal%20bag%20explode.mpg)
Video of a 2 HP leaf blower inflating that same bag Video (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/eRAM%20vs%202hp%20shopvac%2040gal%20bag.mpg)

Their claims "IMMEDIATE and FULL 1psi BOOST AT ANY ENGINE RPM! - 0 TO 25,300 RPM in 1/10th SECOND (activated by an NOS-type switch at Wide-Open Throttle). Why Wide-Open Throttle only? Click here for complete explanation (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/faqs.htm)
SAFE FOR YOUR ELECTRICAL SYSTEM: High current for short duration is drawn directly from your battery, not your alternator. Just like your starter motor.

DOES NOT RESTRICT YOUR INTAKE when not in operation (air-flow through 3.5" dia. e-RAM is equal to a 3 inch diameter intake tube).

EASY TO INSTALL IN MINUTES! Comes pre-assembled and pre-wired, ready for mounting, with easy-to-follow instructions and picture examples.

WORKS ON ANY ENGINE up to 5.0 liters! *see selection guide for your car* (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/selectionguide.htm)

Even has a US Patent #6,328,024 B1 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,328,024.WKU.&OS=PN/6,328,024&RS=PN/6,328,024)

Any one can get a patten on something that doses not mean it does anything Thomas Knight make an real eltric supercharger I say that becuse its actually a eton blower ran off 4 eltric moters. This thing is nothing more than marketing gone mad...agian

insanoman2005
10-12-2004, 10:27 AM
1psi of boost is about 8-15hp on a good day. not really worth it but every little bit helps right!??

Da 6
10-12-2004, 01:10 PM
$300 supercharger sounds good to me...I want the spooling sound tho!

Tricked-Out-Toy
11-02-2004, 03:14 PM
has anyone done the knight system or is anyone thinking about doing it? im really interested in knowing how it worked out. my 2.3 needs a kick in the ass and that might be the way. if you think about it logically you need hp to drive a blower whats the difference if you take it from and elertric motor with stored power or off your crank shaft? and i dont want to hear the BS about how it add so much weight, cause your really not adding any more than a small child! i dont know just my 2cents. I wanna see someone with it!!!

Mazda3ofKent
11-02-2004, 03:17 PM
has anyone done the knight system or is anyone thinking about doing it? im really interested in knowing how it worked out. my 2.3 needs a kick in the ass and that might be the way. if you think about it logically you need hp to drive a blower whats the difference if you take it from and elertric motor with stored power or off your crank shaft? and i dont want to hear the BS about how it add so much weight, cause your really not adding any more than a small child! i dont know just my 2cents. I wanna see someone with it!!!

I would do it if it were not a nightmare to try and install

peepsalot
11-02-2004, 03:24 PM
The difference is that with the thomas knight system, you have to convert the mechanical energy to electrical(with you alternator, which you probably need to upgrade in this case), then convert it back to mechanical. I don't think these energy conversions can compare in efficency to a directly driven belt.
With that said, I still think it is a cool idea, and I'd love to see it in a mazda, but I just don't think many people have done it.

Tricked-Out-Toy
11-02-2004, 04:21 PM
well i know you loose some efficency when you convert anything, but the key part is you dont convert till after you are done using the charger. and in our case i dont think an alternator up grade is needed, the only reason you would need to upgrade the alt would be if you wanted to have faster recharge time. anyone know what are cars put out? lets just say its 100amps the site says that a 200 amp alternator will recharge the completly dead cells in 15 mins( i think thats what it said) if you took the same dead cell and charged them with a 100 amp alternator it would take 30 mins. so parasitic power lose only happens after you make you run/race and you want to recharge the system, that doesnt seem like a bad deal to me, kind of like n2o without the explosion!
I agree with you 100% that a direct belt drive is more efficent but how much would one of those cost for our car along with ecu work and all the other crap? and would you be able to bypass it if you wanted. with direct drive systems you get constant wear and tear. now dont get me wrong i have an ati d1sc charger on my camaro and its the way to go! but with my lil 3 there aight shit for room! 5-7psi is 5-7 psi

gwallis
09-02-2009, 06:40 PM
I think this site shows you the information your looking for on if they work or not: http://www.superchargertuning.com

dizzin9
09-02-2009, 06:46 PM
I think this site shows you the information your looking for on if they work or not: http://www.superchargertuning.com

n00b posting on a 5 yr old thread, eh? (ugh)

Mid_Life_Crisis
09-03-2009, 01:11 PM
n00b posting on a 5 yr old thread, eh? (ugh)

Damn! His handle should be Lazarus. Talk about back from the dead.