Turbohoses SMIC Results

[Turbohoses]

Thank you for your patience.

Our test vehicle is completely stock and tested with our Aluminum Piping and stock boost.

The end results are as follows:


We were only able to run our test vehicle 4 times for each IC. We noticed by the third run the engine began to detonate, we believe this is partially due to the operating temp.

Baseline:

1.Turbohoses IC= 158.3hp/169.1ft. lbs tq.
OEM IC= 142.7/159 ft. lbs. tq.

Gain of 15.6 hp.

2. Turbohoses IC= 157hp/167.1 ft. lbs. tq.
OEM IC= 142.4/158.1 ft.lbs. tq.

-Break 2 minutes before next run on Turbohoses IC-

3. Turbohoses IC= 158.5hp/169.1 ft. lbs. tq

_Break 5 minutes before running OEM IC-

OEM IC= 140.7hp/ 152.9 ft. lbs. tq.

4. Turbohoses IC= 154.6hp/162.4 ft. lbs. tq.
OEM IC= 138.7hp/150.2ft. lbs. tq.

Note:

Turbohoses Ambient Air temp.= 87 deg.
OEM Ambient Air temp.= 83.5 deg.

Dynoing with the OEM IC resulted in hesitation on WOT.
OEM Intercooler Pipes: Unable to complete dyno run due to engine hesitation at WOT.

We also took a temperature reading comparing aluminum vs. steel piping using the stock IC.
Aluminum- 100-108dg. f.
Steel- 135-142 dg.f.

Thank you,

Turbohoses R&D

[kazson]

nice numbers indeed pretty impressive

and goes to show how much our stock IC sucks

[jurgs01]

Good info. How does the IC fit? The only person with Circuit Sports SMIC said they had rubbing problems due to the way it fit. So I'm guessing you have decided to go on with production. Hopefully this is quickly followed by a GB, if so you have one on this list if reasonably priced. Thanks for putting up the results.

[mspeed101]

How come the msp dynoed so low stock? By the way great numbers

[jurgs01]

How come the msp dynoed so low stock? By the way great numbers
It always does. The 170 HP put out when you bought it was crank HP (and a generous estimate). The decent stock supension, gear ratios and the fact that it's so light are what make it a fast car. Imagine what the car feel like with those guys putting down 250-300 HP. Must be fun.

[mspeed101]

It always does. The 170 HP put out when you bought it was crank HP (and a generous estimate). The decent stock supension, gear ratios and the fact that it's so light are what make it a fast car. Imagine what the car feel like with those guys putting down 250-300 HP. Must be fun.I usually see them dynoing at around the 150-160whp range stock thats why I was wondering

[Spooled]

Detonaation in stock form? Sounds weird.

Also, that's a big difference in ambient temps. Were they run on the same day? The 6.5 degree difference (along with whatever humidity change) could account for a lot of the power gain. I'd really like to see either corrected numbers, or tests done in the exact same conditions.

[Turbohoses]

Good info. How does the IC fit? The only person with Circuit Sports SMIC said they had rubbing problems due to the way it fit. So I'm guessing you have decided to go on with production. Hopefully this is quickly followed by a GB, if so you have one on this list if reasonably priced. Thanks for putting up the results.

The fitament is good. There are no rubbing issues.
However, we are at a crossing point.

1. The factory fan has one bolt that mount to the OEM IC. We can and have made a proto-type that fits all of the bolts, however it is extremely time consuming. We would have to add an additional 100.00 to the IC to retain that single bolt.

2. We are going to do one slight adjustment to the geometry of our system, which should result in 1-2 more hp on the top end.

Let us know, if the market will accept the one bolt missing and we'll take it from there.

Thank you,

Turbohoses R&D

[Turbohoses]

I usually see them dynoing at around the 150-160whp range stock thats why I was wondering

150-160 is quite possible.
The ambient air temp. will make a difference and drop hp very quickly.

Hope this helps.

Turbohoses R&D

[Turbohoses]

Detonaation in stock form? Sounds weird.

Also, that's a big difference in ambient temps. Were they run on the same day? The 6.5 degree difference (along with whatever humidity change) could account for a lot of the power gain. I'd really like to see either corrected numbers, or tests done in the exact same conditions.

Tests were done witin the same hour.
Yes, the OEM IC was given a slight handicap due to the time it took us to change intercoolers.

Turbohoses R&D

[Turbohoses]

Detonaation in stock form? Sounds weird.

Also, that's a big difference in ambient temps. Were they run on the same day? The 6.5 degree difference (along with whatever humidity change) could account for a lot of the power gain. I'd really like to see either corrected numbers, or tests done in the exact same conditions.

Thanks for catching that.
I typed a little too fast...
the correct temperature is 83.5.

Thanks again,

Turbohoses R&D

[mspeed101]

Is there a price on this yet?

[wicked]

This goes to show why good quility products cost what they do.turbohoses has spent A lot of time and money to have these perform the way that they do.they are not just some cheap crap built in a garage.
I have seen this product in person,can read these results,and I know how much has been put into getting this perfect.this takes the car one step closer to how it should have come from the factory.this is a must have for anyone who drives thier car,and plans on having it for awhile.

by the way these numbers were pulled using a dynojet.

sorry jurgs01 no GB.
but I can't say what ********** may do,thats up to him.
and as far as fitment goes,just go to http://www.turbohoses.com/MSP.htm<!-- / sig -->
and look at the pics.It was designed identical to the factory EXEPT
all alluminum
3.5 inch core(compared to factory 3 inch)
bar and plate
channel size has been increased by 50%
and hand made

for those of you still interested in cheap pipes tubohoses has a thread here now offering them.

[Artur1976]

when will this smic be ready for shipping? And price estimate.

[jurgs01]

The fitament is good. There are no rubbing issues.
However, we are at a crossing point.

1. The factory fan has one bolt that mount to the OEM IC. We can and have made a proto-type that fits all of the bolts, however it is extremely time consuming. We would have to add an additional 100.00 to the IC to retain that single bolt.

2. We are going to do one slight adjustment to the geometry of our system, which should result in 1-2 more hp on the top end.

Let us know, if the market will accept the one bolt missing and we'll take it from there.

Thank you,

Turbohoses R&D
For $100 you can leave the bolt off. Is the fan sturdy without it? I will have to go look at it tomorrow, but as long as it is sturdy and doesn't thrash around it shouldn't be a problem. Why a hundred dollars to drill and tap a hole?

[wicked]

Detonaation in stock form? Sounds weird.

Also, that's a big difference in ambient temps. Were they run on the same day? The 6.5 degree difference (along with whatever humidity change) could account for a lot of the power gain. I'd really like to see either corrected numbers, or tests done in the exact same conditions.
if you look at the conditions he gave the factory a handicap.cooler air is denser creating more power.he ran his hotter,whitch if any thing hurt his total.in other words if the temps were the same his would have gained even more,and he would have been detonating a lot more with factory.

[slyydrr]

it sounds VERY interesting... i want a FMIC, but this sounds quite affordable... im interested in this SMIC... any price ranges?

[slyydrr]

btw, for those looking, the CORRECT, WORKING link is www.turbohoses.com/MSP.htm (http://www.turbohoses.com/MSP.htm) :)

[wicked]

AIKEN,
Read the rest of the thread before posting please.I don't mean to be rude or anything but I just posted the link a few minutes ago at the age of page 1
thanks for trying to help though=)

[Turbohoses]

For $100 you can leave the bolt off. Is the fan sturdy without it? I will have to go look at it tomorrow, but as long as it is sturdy and doesn't thrash around it shouldn't be a problem. Why a hundred dollars to drill and tap a hole?

It's not as simple as just drill and tap.
The end tank must be recessed at that point to allow for the fans mounting point to have a place to sit. Remember, the core is thicker.

Thanks,

Turbohoses R&D

[wicked]

It's not as simple as just drill and tap.
The end tank must be recessed at that point to allow for the fans mounting point to have a place to sit. Remember, the core is thicker.

Thanks,

Turbohoses R&D

hay hoover there is one thing that I forgot to ask you,the car that was at the shop today,the one tested,was it flashed or not?

[mspeed101]

It's not as simple as just drill and tap.
The end tank must be recessed at that point to allow for the fans mounting point to have a place to sit. Remember, the core is thicker.

Thanks,

Turbohoses R&DHey I was wondering I just went to your site and I saw that you are also making intakes. Any idea on when those will be ready to purchase. Also do you have a guesstimate of how much the smic will be? thanks

[mspeed101]

I havent looked into smic's much but since I live in FL where I am around hot temps all year long will the upgraded intercooler still heat soak? Also I heard that the price of the smic will be somewhere around $550 and the hardpipes are another $395. That comes out to more then the Hiboost fmic how come a smic is more expensive?

[TheJohnny]

You would think that a SMIC and hard pipes would run about $700. Maybe a GB on both for $700? I don't really know what's going to happen but this is something I'm going to eventually get. Dealer wouldn't even notice. I bet the would just over look it. Hell these cars are going to be extinct and the mechanics won't know that it didn't come with an Aluminum Intercooler. Put me down for a maybe.

[jflo]

why is there such a big drop for the new SMIC between runs 3 and 4 ? does this intercooler heatsoak as well as the OEM SMIC, but maybe not as quick ?

[Turbohoses]

hay hoover there is one thing that I forgot to ask you,the car that was at the shop today,the one tested,was it flashed or not?

Per our first post.

The car that was tested is completely stock and only has our aluminum pipes.

Turbohoses R&D

[jflo]

You would think that a SMIC and hard pipes would run about $700. Maybe a GB on both for $700? I don't really know what's going to happen but this is something I'm going to eventually get. Dealer wouldn't even notice. I bet the would just over look it. Hell these cars are going to be extinct and the mechanics won't know that it didn't come with an Aluminum Intercooler. Put me down for a maybe.
well the reason that the cost of this SMIC and pipes approach the starting price of say the hiboost FMIC is that the materials used and R&D spent for these two items are totally different. the SMIC is not an easy core to make and demand for this size and spec isn't high, so getting a core like this made probably costs extra. also, the quality of the piping is different. hiboost uses mild steel w/ chrome plating on the outside, while turbohoses is using full aluminum piping. aluminum is a good insulator, won't rust, and light.

[Turbohoses]

why is there such a big drop for the new SMIC between runs 3 and 4 ? does this intercooler heatsoak as well as the OEM SMIC, but maybe not as quick ?

Operating temperature was 15 dg. f. higher from second run and 42 dg. f. higher than our first run.

The intercooler heat soaks, but the engine temp. increases quite rapidly under the conditions our tests put it through.

Turbohoses R&D

[wicked]

Even a FMIC will heat soak eventualy.
this isn't going to be a FMIC VS. SMIC thread.
they are for two different applications.a FMIC is for going high horse power,and extensive modifications.it's not designed for daily driving,or lower RPM's
The SMIC is more sutible for everday use,stop and go,and even autocross.
With SMIC,hard pies,intake,and exhaust on a MSP you will have a very good street car,that will still get decent times at the track,without investing a lot.

[wicked]

Per are first post.

The car that was tested is completely stock and only has our aluminum pipes.

Turbohoses R&Dyeah I know,but a lot of the MSP's have come from the dealership flashed.
all of the 2003.5 were supposed to,and the one you have is a 2003.5,but surprisingly most aren't(like mine)

[Turbohoses]

yeah I know,but a lot of the MSP's have come from the dealership flashed.
all of the 2003.5 were supposed to,and the one you have is a 2003.5,but surprisingly most aren't(like mine)


As most people mentioned, the baseline we have is more/less consistant with others.
Because our tests were done on this vehicle, our baseline/test numbers are consistant throughout.

Turbohoses R&D

[wicked]

I was just wondering because the flashed (I think)has more of a retard,and more lean.
but your right,it would be consistent either way.

by the way check your messeges I am going to PM you in a sec.

[jflo]

Even a FMIC will heat soak eventualy.
this isn't going to be a FMIC VS. SMIC thread.
they are for two different applications.a FMIC is for going high horse power,and extensive modifications.it's not designed for daily driving,or lower RPM's
The SMIC is more sutible for everday use,stop and go,and even autocross.
With SMIC,hard pies,intake,and exhaust on a MSP you will have a very good street car,that will still get decent times at the track,without investing a lot.
yes, i understand that, but what i'm trying to understand is why there was a large drop, and thankfully hoover explained that.

something that i was reminded of about dyno testing was that in Dinan's shop (a top BMW tuner), he supplemented his dyno with a large fan because he noticed that the car he was tuning (a BMW M5) was making less horsepower on the dyno then it seemed to while running on the streets. it turned out that the car has some sensors that relay speed and approximates the cooling capacity of the engine, and compensates horsepower to decrease operating temps. but yeah, i doubt that the MSP is as sophisticated as the M5, but flowing a large amount of air in front of the car will probably affect results, and possibly help to show more accurate numbers for the OEM SMIC and Turbohoses SMIC

[wicked]

yes, i understand that, but what i'm trying to understand is why there was a large drop, and thankfully hoover explained that.

something that i was reminded of about dyno testing was that in Dinan's shop (a top BMW tuner), he supplemented his dyno with a large fan because he noticed that the car he was tuning (a BMW M5) was making less horsepower on the dyno then it seemed to while running on the streets. it turned out that the car has some sensors that relay speed and approximates the cooling capacity of the engine, and compensates horsepower to decrease operating temps. but yeah, i doubt that the MSP is as sophisticated as the M5, but flowing a large amount of air in front of the car will probably affect results, and possibly help to show more accurate numbers for the OEM SMIC and Turbohoses SMIC

yeah I know what your gettin at but I know that he took that into account.
but I think he was trying to heat soak his to give it "extreme" conditions.you know like worst case senario.

[jurgs01]

You would think that a SMIC and hard pipes would run about $700. Maybe a GB on both for $700? I don't really know what's going to happen but this is something I'm going to eventually get. Dealer wouldn't even notice. I bet the would just over look it. Hell these cars are going to be extinct and the mechanics won't know that it didn't come with an Aluminum Intercooler. Put me down for a maybe.
The SMIC and "affordable" hardpipes will run between $700 and 750. Remember, Hiboost uses mild steel piping on their kit. There were reasons their kit was inexpensive. You also don't have to update your pipes to use the upgraded SMIC, which is the great thing for those who want to keep a more stock look and save some $$.

[Rawyzf]

Subscribe

[rocketspeed]

I'm interested in all the final details.

[StreakinOraNgeX]

The SMIC and "affordable" hardpipes will run between $700 and 750. Remember, Hiboost uses mild steel piping on their kit. There were reasons their kit was inexpensive. You also don't have to update your pipes to use the upgraded SMIC, which is the great thing for those who want to keep a more stock look and save some $$.
One of the hiboost hardpipes is fully aluminum (the intercooler to throttle body pipe.)

[www.03msp.com]

One of the hiboost hardpipes is fully aluminum (the intercooler to throttle body pipe.)
Yes, the cold side is aluminum, the hot side is not.

- Brian

[FBI14]

Detonaation in stock form? Sounds weird.

Yeah whats that all about

[FBI14]

1. The factory fan has one bolt that mount to the OEM IC. We can and have made a proto-type that fits all of the bolts, however it is extremely time consuming. We would have to add an additional 100.00 to the IC to retain that single bolt.



Turbohoses R&D
Is there any chance you guys would keep those specs in case someone wanted to have one made in that way at the higher price

[srd555]

The fitament is good. There are no rubbing issues.
However, we are at a crossing point.

1. The factory fan has one bolt that mount to the OEM IC. We can and have made a proto-type that fits all of the bolts, however it is extremely time consuming. We would have to add an additional 100.00 to the IC to retain that single bolt.
If the fan is secure enough without this bolt then I vote you leave it out; especially if it saves $100.

[speedhawaii]

so 15 hp gain is just at the crank right? so that would be like 5-8 whp? very similar to circuit sports i assume. im pretty sure ********** will have a GB since he wanted to GI long ago.

[srd555]

so 15 hp gain is just at the crank right? so that would be like 5-8 whp? very similar to circuit sports i assume. im pretty sure ********** will have a GB since he wanted to GI long ago.No, thats 15.6 whp.

It has to be since:

They did it on a Dyno.
The hp reading with the oem is about what the MSP does whp stock.

[speedhawaii]

thats right. 150 whp stock duh

[slyydrr]

still browsing this and reading for info, but for $700+ i think i might pass.. ill keep looking for any GB's though.

[Dr.Sound]

very interested.
i was one of the first people to see the ProtoSport prototype SMIC last September.
i was one of the first to drive the car with SMIC in it.

I WANT SMIC!!!
turbohoses is an excellent company. i shall go for the combo of aluminum pipes and SMIC.

[spicynamja]

Turbohoses Hardpipes are simply the best quality. THE BEST. Their SMIC will be the same. I want it badly.

[jflo]

yeah, i agree that turbohoses has good quality...it's making it very hard to decide where to spend my saved up money (that's if i ever do save anY !) on the hardpipes and SMIC, or hiboost FMIC...mmmmmmmmmmm

[chillinmcmillan]

sounds interesting but I just gotta have a FMIC, keep on saving!

[ARunto]

nice results :)

[MazdaSpeedSter]

Is there any R&D on the Turbohoses SMIC yet¿ Any numbers from dyno¿ and what material is it made from thats different from stock¿

[mspeed101]

Is there any R&D on the Turbohoses SMIC yet¿ Any numbers from dyno¿ and what material is it made from thats different from stock¿Yes it has been R&D along with all there products. Dyno numbers are on the front of the page compared to the stock numbers.

[Turbohoses]

If the fan is secure enough without this bolt then I vote you leave it out; especially if it saves $100.




In order to keep it within a reasonable price range, this will have to be the case.

[Turbohoses]

We have slightly adjusted the geometry of one one of the IC's parts. This will result in another 1/2 to 2hp gain which will vary depending on your boost setting.

We are going into production and will be able to deliver 5+ kits per month.

Turbohoses R&D

[LinuxRacr]

The question I have is are you in line to become a Authorized Vendor? If not, hit this link here: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53836

If you are just gauging interest, it's all good!

[Bhamsan]

Can we see the dyno sheets? I want to see exactly where the HP is gained. Also, any word on the price yet?

[srd555]

In order to keep it within a reasonable price range, this will have to be the case.

Is the Fan Secure????? Or will one have to make brackets.

[jurgs01]

I also would like to see the Dyno sheets. I would like to be one of the first ones to order one. I would like to get mine in before summer is over. I would prefer a deal if ********** does a GB, but if that is not going to happen I will just order one. What is the estimated price? Also, can you expand on the how secure the fan is without the mounting bolt in place.

[rocketspeed]

Definately interested in how secure the fan is. The whole SMIC, hardpipes and intake setup would be nice.

[Turbohoses]

The question I have is are you in line to become a Authorized Vendor? If not, hit this link here: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53836

If you are just gauging interest, it's all good!

We are only posting our tests results and technical information.

Turbohoses R&D

[Turbohoses]

Is the Fan Secure????? Or will one have to make brackets.

The fan is fairly secure.

Turbohoses R&D

[Turbohoses]

Can we see the dyno sheets? I want to see exactly where the HP is gained. Also, any word on the price yet?


The power increase began at 3000 rpm to 5800rpm.
The HP curve for the stock IC was fairly shakey between 3300 to 4500 and again at 5200-5700.

The upgraded IC had a slightly better hp curve from 3300 to 3900. The upper end was EXTREMELY smooth compared to the OEM curve.

Note:

Stock IC - engine noise and hesitation at WOT.

Turbohoses R&D

[ONRAILS]

How soon can we start ordering it? Is the price $550 plus shipping?

[slyydrr]

price estimate please...

[Bhamsan]

I still want to see a scan of the dyno sheet.

[TheJohnny]

I still want to see a scan of the dyno sheet.

I AGREE!!!!

[ONRAILS]

What makes your SMIC better than the Circuit Sports SMIC? Or should I say... what could "sway" me in your direction? I can get the CS one in a week after I send them the money.

How about you FMIC owners... what should I do???? lol

[Turbohoses]

I still want to see a scan of the dyno sheet.

Our dyno sheet has proprietory information and therefore I can not show a copy of our sheet on the internet. We will only post results.

However, some of our local customers have seen the sheet in person. If you are in our area, give us a call and we'll be glad to let you view the sheet. You'll be fairly surprised at the results.

Turbohoses R&D

[ONRAILS]

Ok... I asked the same question about the CS smic. You're claiming 16.5whp, CS is claiming 8whp (they have a dyno sheet). Both are pretty much designed the same... bar/plate.. etc. What gives?




Our dyno sheet has proprietory information and therefore I can not show a copy of our sheet on the internet. We will only post results.

However, some of our local customers have seen the sheet in person. If you are in our area, give us a call and we'll be glad to let you view the sheet. You'll be fairly surprised at the results.

Turbohoses R&D

[FrankAlpine]

one question!

How much?

[jurgs01]

Ok... I asked the same question about the CS smic. You're claiming 16.5whp, CS is claiming 8whp (they have a dyno sheet). Both are pretty much designed the same... bar/plate.. etc. What gives?
If the results are correct (which I personally have no idea if they are or are not), then I would say better flow characteristics. 1 psi less of pressure drop would explain the difference. Also, if you look at the dyno numbers that were posted by the magazine for CS SMIC, it was taken after they had a DP (or midpipe) already on. Turbohoses dyno was a stock car.

[Turbohoses]

Ok... I asked the same question about the CS smic. You're claiming 16.5whp, CS is claiming 8whp (they have a dyno sheet). Both are pretty much designed the same... bar/plate.. etc. What gives?

We can not speak for the CS Intercooler, it is not our product and we did not test it. Remember, our tests were done with our piping which is aluminum, the cooler air temp. "maybe" one reason. Flow characteristics are another case, again, I can not comment for the CS intercooler.

Turbohoses R&D

[ONRAILS]

ahh... good point!




If the results are correct (which I personally have no idea if they are or are not), then I would say better flow characteristics. 1 psi less of pressure drop would explain the difference. Also, if you look at the dyno numbers that were posted by the magazine for CS SMIC, it was taken after they had a DP (or midpipe) already on. Turbohoses dyno was a stock car.

[speedhawaii]

bump for a price atleast. anyone got in touch with cullen yet?

[Turbohoses]

I also would like to see the Dyno sheets. I would like to be one of the first ones to order one. I would like to get mine in before summer is over. I would prefer a deal if ********** does a GB, but if that is not going to happen I will just order one. What is the estimated price? Also, can you expand on the how secure the fan is without the mounting bolt in place.

3 out of the 5 kits have already been reserved by a few of the locals and one not so local.
Our next set will be middle Oct.

Turbohoses R&D

[speedhawaii]

damn!

[jurgs01]

3 out of the 5 kits have already been reserved by a few of the locals and one not so local.
Our next set will be middle Oct.

Turbohoses R&D
What about the other two? Put me down. I can paypal the $$ on Sunday.

[speedhawaii]

i wonder.. is ********** will have a set soon since he already has one

[jurgs01]

i wonder.. is ********** will have a set soon since he already has one
I sure he is recovering from Charlie and the forums are the last thing on his mind, but I would love some info on his involvement on this and the Turbo-back he was developing.

[Turbohoses]

What about the other two? Put me down. I can paypal the $$ on Sunday.

The other two have yet to be taken.

It's best to contact us directly.

Turbohoses R&D

[CChris704]

might be able to count me in on the oct one....do we have a price y et?

[jaxmsp]

We can not speak for the CS Intercooler, it is not our product and we did not test it. Remember, our tests were done with our piping which is aluminum, the cooler air temp. "maybe" one reason. Flow characteristics are another case, again, I can not comment for the CS intercooler.

Turbohoses R&D
were the stock plastic pipes used when the stock intercooler intercooler was dynoed?

[Turbohoses]

were the stock plastic pipes used when the stock intercooler intercooler was dynoed?

Our pipes were used with the OEM ic during the tests.

Turbohoses R&D

[MazdaDryvr]

The HP gain from an FMIC is only a few HP more than this SMIC isnt it? I thought I recalled seeing a 18hp gain from Ions FMIC. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[slyydrr]

price... without a price estimate, im losing all interest in one of these... its getting rather cumbersome to keep asking repeatedly.

[Rawyzf]

Price!
price... without a price estimate, im losing all interest in one of these... its getting rather cumbersome to keep asking repeatedly.

[Turbohoses]

price... without a price estimate, im losing all interest in one of these... its getting rather cumbersome to keep asking repeatedly.

Please contact us directly.

Turbohoses R&D

[wickedjra]

has anybody contacted them directly yet?? care to post their quoted price?

[Bhamsan]

has anybody contacted them directly yet?? care to post their quoted price?
Ditto.

[Rawyzf]

Ditto




Ditto.

[speedhawaii]

watsup with ignoring that question

[ONRAILS]

You guys are going to hate me for this... I called earlier today and got the price, but I cannot remember the exact quote he gave me. I know it was $600+. That turned me off right away. But I suggest you call them up just to verify... I could be wrong.

[srd555]

I called, they asked me not to say the price until its released but I can give the range. Its greater than $590 but less than $600 (wink) It would have been $100 more if the fan screw they talked about was kept in the desgin.

[speedhawaii]

are u f*cking kidding haha. circuit sports isnt gonna get flamed for their price haha. nm about this drama on SMIC. custommsp has 465 shipped i think but its tube and fin. check it out

[Turbohoses]

are u f*cking kidding haha. circuit sports isnt gonna get flamed for their price haha. nm about this drama on SMIC. custommsp has 465 shipped i think but its tube and fin. check it out

The demensions of our competitors cores/sizes are more than likely different, which will make a difference in the flow rate. Basically, this is not a apples to apples comparison, considering that there are differences in the core, size, testing etc..

Turbohoses R&D

[speedhawaii]

yes i must admit thats true. its a nice design and good stats, but sorry its too expensive for me.

[StreetUnit]

Hello guys, I had to read up on 5 pages to get back up to speed. We are up and running here and ready to get back into the swing of things. Thanks for all the voicemails to see if we were alive...

SMIC is $595 plus shipping
These units will be produced in 5-8 allotments per month
Due to this being a limited unit and the extensive R&D invested, there will not be a GB, however, I will discount the piping kits to whomever buys the piping and SMIC as a kit.

First production run will be ready to ship in 3 weeks (approx Sept 12th)

Orders must be called in and MUST speak with me. There will be 5 spots available on the first production run. Once those fill, 5 more spots will be open for the second production run and so forth.

First come, first served basis.

[MazdaSpeedSter]

OMG!!! Thats expensive!!!
~ Anyways, when are the intake going to be out? Is there a discount if I purchase the intake along with the hard pipes. Also can there be a GB on them (hard pipes and intake)?

[mspeed101]

So basically the smic and hardpipes will cost over $1000 shipped????? Are you kidding me? I guess im gonna have to stick with the hiboost fmic

[StreetUnit]

Expensive? Hmm, well it basically comes down to what kind of aftermarket parts you want.

If you want the parts that lack R&D and cut corners to get their parts cheap, then you can save some $ with the competitors parts. But Turbohoses name speaks for itself. You may think you are buying the "Turbohoses name." You are, and behind that name, lies endless hours of RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT that makes these parts what they are.

I know with this MSP here, we do it right the first time. I don't cut any corners or put any knockoff parts into the project.
You get what you pay for.

The intake is next, GB is not set up yet.

[mspeed101]

Im not cutting any corners going with the hiboost fmic! Hiboost and Turbohoses both have quality products but the hiboost is more competitively priced thats all. Trust me I dont cut any corners when it comes to my car I only buy quality products

[StreetUnit]

So basically the smic and hardpipes will cost over $1000 shipped????? Are you kidding me? I guess im gonna have to stick with the hiboost fmic
Yessir, if you are running under 12psi, you will get more gains from the SMIC than you will see with any FMIC on the market. If you do plan on doing internals, fuel management, and boosting over 12psi, a SMIC is not the way to go, the FMIC is what to invest in.

For people under the 12psi range...
In my opinion, spending $800-900 on a FMIC is a waste of money. A FMIC will get you minimal gains, if any. Another $100-200 can get you a SMIC that has significant dyno gains that you want.

Do it right the first time.

[StreetUnit]

Im not cutting any corners going with the hiboost fmic! Hiboost and Turbohoses both have quality products but the hiboost is more competitively priced thats all. Trust me I dont cut any corners when it comes to my car I only buy quality products
Never said Hiboost cuts corners. Please watch what you say. Thank you.

[speedhawaii]

yay to see that ********** is up and going again

[lamp3]

sta sta street-UNIT!! =P

[jflo]

Yessir, if you are running under 12psi, you will get more gains from the SMIC than you will see with any FMIC on the market. If you do plan on doing internals, fuel management, and boosting over 12psi, a SMIC is not the way to go, the FMIC is what to invest in.

For people under the 12psi range...
In my opinion, spending $800-900 on a FMIC is a waste of money. A FMIC will get you minimal gains, if any. Another $100-200 can get you a SMIC that has significant dyno gains that you want.

Do it right the first time.
so you're claiming that our best bet is to stick with an intercooler that is in a poor location, with much of the air being blocked, resists heatsoak for maybe another 5 or 10 minutes ? FMICs work the same way SMICs do. the performance lies within the cooling capacity of the intercooler, and how little pressure can be lost. you may say that you did not mention hiboost's FMIC, but you're using a very thin veil to hide that you really are mentioning it. there are 2 more options for SMICs, both of which are very capable and competitively priced. don't try convincing people that all that R&D into making this SMIC is gonna make the biggest difference in the world. for about $200 more, you can order the iON FMIC, which has just as much R&D there is to brag about.

[Spooled]

if you look at the conditions he gave the factory a handicap.cooler air is denser creating more power.he ran his hotter,whitch if any thing hurt his total.in other words if the temps were the same his would have gained even more,and he would have been detonating a lot more with factory.
His original post said that the stock IC was run in 93 degree ambient, which is HOTTER than the 85.5 F that the new IC was run in. After my post he went back and corrected his initial ambient temp to read 83 degrees.

The other thing that bothered me was that the stock setup was detonating at all. Was he running low-grade fuel?

[StreetUnit]

so you're claiming that our best bet is to stick with an intercooler that is in a poor location, with much of the air being blocked, resists heatsoak for maybe another 5 or 10 minutes ? FMICs work the same way SMICs do. the performance lies within the cooling capacity of the intercooler, and how little pressure can be lost. you may say that you did not mention hiboost's FMIC, but you're using a very thin veil to hide that you really are mentioning it. there are 2 more options for SMICs, both of which are very capable and competitively priced. don't try convincing people that all that R&D into making this SMIC is gonna make the biggest difference in the world. for about $200 more, you can order the iON FMIC, which has just as much R&D there is to brag about.
I never said anything about Hiboost, nor was I refering to them. Thank you.

Do a little more research on a FMIC on stock boost levels. Talk to a few guys that have them already. Ask what the pressure drop is. This TH SMIC pressure drop is .6-.8psi.

Let me think, the manufacturer names slips my mind, but I believe they added an intake to their FMIC kit setup to show a gain of 12hp because there wasn't any gains with just the FMIC alone.

Maybe 15-17hp increase for this SMIC kit isn't enough to justify its efficiency?!?

[jflo]

I never said anything about Hiboost, nor was I refering to them. Thank you.

Do a little more research on a FMIC on stock boost levels. Talk to a few guys that have them already. Ask what the pressure drop is. This TH SMIC pressure drop is .6-.8psi.

Let me think, the manufacturer names slips my mind, but I believe they added an intake to their FMIC kit setup to show a gain of 12hp because there wasn't any gains with just the FMIC alone.

Maybe 15-17hp increase for this SMIC kit isn't enough to justify its efficiency?!?
according to import tuner, an independent that tested the iON FMIC, the difference between the OEM IC's first run (being least heatsoaked w/ breaks) and the FMIC's last run (being used longer, no breaks in between runs), they gained approximately 13whp. boost fell off slightly, between .5-.8 psi, but did not suffer heatsoak.

i still haven't seen dyno sheets for this SMIC yet, too !

i love the quality of this product, but i still can't justify spending $1000 when there are other viable options for less, and other mods that can realize similar gains.

[slyydrr]

too much for me... i'm out :(

[Turbohoses]

His original post said that the stock IC was run in 93 degree ambient, which is HOTTER than the 85.5 F that the new IC was run in. After my post he went back and corrected his initial ambient temp to read 83 degrees.

The other thing that bothered me was that the stock setup was detonating at all. Was he running low-grade fuel?

Our tests were done with pump gas here (91 octane). Hopefully our customer's have higher octane where they reside.

Turbohoses R&D

[Turbohoses]

according to import tuner, an independent that tested the iON FMIC, the difference between the OEM IC's first run (being least heatsoaked w/ breaks) and the FMIC's last run (being used longer, no breaks in between runs), they gained approximately 13whp. boost fell off slightly, between .5-.8 psi, but did not suffer heatsoak.


.


Hopefully we are reading this correctly. A "gain" by how many runs? Unless these tests are done with the same format, they are not the same test, which will net entirely different results.

We test our own, custom and OEM intercoolers almost daily and have never found a "gain" by the end of a few runs. However, if you are stating that they made 20+/- hp (guesstamation) on the first run and then ended up at 13 whp by the end of the run/s, then it makes sense. Also, those will be very impressive numbers.

Furthermore, "no breaks inbetween runs"....
This is highly unlikely. We dyno on average 6-10 cars daily and find that not taking any breaks between runs will give you extremely inconsistant readings as well as damage to the engine. Like other cars, the MSP is extremely prone to these conditions. However, all companies run their tests based on what they are trying to achieve.

Because we are still under development of products for the MSP, we must keep our dyno loggs proprietory for the moment. As mentioned in an earlier thread, we have and are willing to let anyone that is available at our facilities view the sheet.

Turbohoses R&D

[KyRaceFan]

Good product turbohoses. :)

[MazdaSpeedSter]

Im not cutting any corners going with the hiboost fmic! Hiboost and Turbohoses both have quality products but the hiboost is more competitively priced thats all. Trust me I dont cut any corners when it comes to my car I only buy quality products~Aye!~(lol2)
Remember what I said about just wraping my stock plastic tubes with aluminum foil, then covering that w/ some duct tape(naughty) ... lol... Dammit!!! I need to save some money...

[wicked]

Hopefully we are reading this correctly. A "gain" by how many runs? Unless these tests are done with the same format, they are not the same test, which will net entirely different results.

We test our own, custom and OEM intercoolers almost daily and have never found a "gain" by the end of a few runs. However, if you are stating that they made 20+/- hp (guesstamation) on the first run and then ended up at 13 whp by the end of the run/s, then it makes sense. Also, those will be very impressive numbers.

Furthermore, "no breaks inbetween runs"....
This is highly unlikely. We dyno on average 6-10 cars daily and find that not taking any breaks between runs will give you extremely inconsistant readings as well as damage to the engine. Like other cars, the MSP is extremely prone to these conditions. However, all companies run their tests based on what they are trying to achieve.


I've seen them and they aint lyin!

by the way Cullen(**********) is back.

Because we are still under development of products for the MSP, we must keep our dyno loggs proprietory for the moment. As mentioned in an earlier thread, we have and are willing to let anyone that is available at our facilities view the sheet.

Turbohoses R&D

[Spooled]

Our tests were done with pump gas here (91 octane). Hopefully our customer's have higher octane where they reside.

Turbohoses R&D
Any way that you look at it, a stock car should not ping, even with 91 octane. In fact, Mazda says that 91 is the minimum. The car should be able to retard the timing enough to avoid pinging even if someone puts 89 or 97 octane in. That's usually standard practice with high-performance cars.

[Turbohoses]

Any way that you look at it, a stock car should not ping, even with 91 octane. In fact, Mazda says that 91 is the minimum. The car should be able to retard the timing enough to avoid pinging even if someone puts 89 or 97 octane in. That's usually standard practice with high-performance cars.


Ambient air temp. and the engine temperature were the main cause of the car detonating. This happened during our third run, which can/does happen during "dyno" testing.
Depending on the ECU and Knock sensor, there may be a range that our tests strained the system. However, the answer is still operating temperature.

Turbohoses R&D

[jflo]

Hopefully we are reading this correctly. A "gain" by how many runs? Unless these tests are done with the same format, they are not the same test, which will net entirely different results.

We test our own, custom and OEM intercoolers almost daily and have never found a "gain" by the end of a few runs. However, if you are stating that they made 20+/- hp (guesstamation) on the first run and then ended up at 13 whp by the end of the run/s, then it makes sense. Also, those will be very impressive numbers.

Furthermore, "no breaks inbetween runs"....
This is highly unlikely. We dyno on average 6-10 cars daily and find that not taking any breaks between runs will give you extremely inconsistant readings as well as damage to the engine. Like other cars, the MSP is extremely prone to these conditions. However, all companies run their tests based on what they are trying to achieve.

Because we are still under development of products for the MSP, we must keep our dyno loggs proprietory for the moment. As mentioned in an earlier thread, we have and are willing to let anyone that is available at our facilities view the sheet.

Turbohoses R&D
oops, it wasn't import tuner that did the testing, it was turbo & high-tech performance.

yes, i know that different testing will yield different results,

turbo & high-tech did 3 runs for each intercooler. after the OEM IC's first run, which should be the best for it since the car is warmed up, but not overheated. during this time (because they found out that the IC could not hold up for long), they gave the OEM IC breaks in between runs. for the iON FMIC however, they did not do this because they wanted to find out if this intercooler would resist heatsoak (since FMICs are supposed to be very effective chillers), and it did not heatsoak.

the point is though, that although this SMIC is going to be a great upgrade, it's still got an FMIC price tag once completed.

and even iON gives discounts to forum members, but they do take forever to get their product.

[Turbohoses]

oops, it wasn't import tuner that did the testing, it was turbo & high-tech performance.

yes, i know that different testing will yield different results,

turbo & high-tech did 3 runs for each intercooler. after the OEM IC's first run, which should be the best for it since the car is warmed up, but not overheated. during this time (because they found out that the IC could not hold up for long), they gave the OEM IC breaks in between runs. for the iON FMIC however, they did not do this because they wanted to find out if this intercooler would resist heatsoak (since FMICs are supposed to be very effective chillers), and it did not heatsoak.

the point is though, that although this SMIC is going to be a great upgrade, it's still got an FMIC price tag once completed.


and even iON gives discounts to forum members, but they do take forever to get their product.

Heat soaking isn't the problem, engine operating temperature is. The third run will put you up in 225 d. f. range.

The price tag is based on fabrication time, not material.
A FMIC can be purchased as a generic unit with pre-made end tanks and brackets. Because the SMIC will require custom brackets, end tanks, aluminium mounting round stock etc....the overall cost will be more expensive.

Turbohoses R&D

[jflo]

iON's FMIC price is also based on fabrication time. their cores aren't generic units, they order different cores because jack wanted the core to be as big as possible without interfering with any of the body/frame along with the pipes. hiboost FMIC also has custom endtanks and piping.

and heatsoaking is a problem, because once the intercooler can't cool down the air, engine operating temps go up. engine operating temp is always going to go up regardless of what IC is used. if a good amount of air that can be correctly simulated to flow across the front of the car can be used, then results would be consistent.

[jaxmsp]

and heatsoaking is a problem, because once the intercooler can't cool down the air, engine operating temps go up. engine operating temp is always going to go up regardless of what IC is used. if a good amount of air that can be correctly simulated to flow across the front of the car can be used, then results would be consistent.IMHO, jflo is right on the money. also, the high engine operating temps contibute to the heat soak potential, i.e., intercooler heatsoak does not result only from hot compressed air going through the intercooler, although that is big part of it. the other part is that there is a feedback cycle in effect here -- the hotter the engine gets (and therefore the intercooler, as well), the less the intercooler can cool the compressed air => the hotter the compressed air, the hotter the engine runs.

the only way any intercooler will not eventually heatsoak is to get good airflow forced through the cooling fins. otherwise the heat simply will not be able to dissipate. and the smic is in a very challenged location to obtain sufficient airflow.

[Turbohoses]

iON's FMIC price is also based on fabrication time. their cores aren't generic units, they order different cores because jack wanted the core to be as big as possible without interfering with any of the body/frame along with the pipes. hiboost FMIC also has custom endtanks and piping.

and heatsoaking is a problem, because once the intercooler can't cool down the air, engine operating temps go up. engine operating temp is always going to go up regardless of what IC is used. if a good amount of air that can be correctly simulated to flow across the front of the car can be used, then results would be consistent.

Ordering a core isn't the problem. "If" there were a pre-made end tank with everything we needed for our SMIC, then our price would be much different. Most applications have end tanks that can be purchased and made fairly easily which will considerably bring down the fabrication time.
We've made custom front mount and production units. "This" stock mount is much more difficult and involved. Again, there is much more fabrication time in the SMIC than a FMIC.

If you are looking at a performance gain for those that are going to modify and turn up boost considerably, then heat soaking will always be an issue and it is our main concern for those that are/aren't going to upgrade turbos, etc...
Each of our runs were made with identical engine temperatures and intake temperatures for the stock IC was 5 degrees more at the last run.

Ultimately, it boils down to a cost comparison vs. performance coupled with product. Paying for something that performs well, but smaller or paying for a FMIC that possibly makes equivalent to less hp for stock MSP owners.



Turbohoses R&D

[Turbohoses]

IMHO, jflo is right on the money. also, the high engine operating temps contibute to the heat soak potential, i.e., intercooler heatsoak does not result only from hot compressed air going through the intercooler, although that is big part of it. the other part is that there is a feedback cycle in effect here -- the hotter the engine gets (and therefore the intercooler, as well), the less the intercooler can cool the compressed air => the hotter the compressed air, the hotter the engine runs.

the only way any intercooler will not eventually heatsoak is to get good airflow forced through the cooling fins. otherwise the heat simply will not be able to dissipate. and the smic is in a very challenged location to obtain sufficient airflow.

IAT was 5 degrees more from our IC to the stock IC at the last run. Not too bad.

Yes, absolute operating conditions will change things considerably. However, these tests were done consistantly and driving the vehicle would be another test, done another way which will net other results. Our tests are an apple to apple test and we have established quantifiable data which will aid us in design.

All things considered must be applied. The "largest" intercooler that can be fitted can be good/bad. A FMIC will arguably have better access to air. However, it will restrict the air necessary for the radiator to cool the engine. The hot air transferred from the IC will directly enter the radiator and raise engine temperatures. For those that live in higher temperatures (90dg. f. +), turning on your air condition will possibly result in the engine overheating due to the lack of air flow to the radiator. Hopefully, most will drive in lower temp. enviroments.

If anyone has an intercooler from another company, please give us a call and provide us data and we'll be glad to run some conclusive tests and post results.

Also, a copy of the article/dyno sheet with phone numbers to the dyno operators will help us considerably in obtaining information necessary to validate the information that has been provided in the past threads.

Turbohoses R&D

[Quik89Si]

Been interested in the Turbohoses hardpipes set for a while, so thought I'd keep an eye on a thread about their other products. Good stuff! May be expensive, but it sure sounds like a quality product.

[speedhawaii]

ions piping is custom SS. also the core is sent from japan.

[Turbohoses]

ions piping is custom SS. also the core is sent from japan.


Stainless Steel is less costly than aluminum and slightly easier to work with. Parts manufactured in the U.S. will tend to be more expensive.

Turbohoses R&D

[wicked]

wow hoover,looks like people are paying good attention to your work.9 pages and counting.

[jurgs01]

ions piping is custom SS. also the core is sent from japan.
SS is a good material, but not the ideal material for intake piping. The main difference between SS and mild steel is corrosive properties, but other than than the way they transfer heat is the same. Aluminum will insulate better. Aluminum is also lighter. The price of both depends on the type of SS or aluminum, but they are both harder than mild steel to fabricate and bend and much more expensive than mild steel. SS is stronger than aluminum in most respects, but you are more worried about strength in exhaust applications, not intake. The only reason to use mild steel would be to cut costs.

[Sushi-Monster]

I was wondering if you did not include the polish into the piping, will you sell it for less... After all, T-6 aluminum comes (usually unless specially ordered) without any polish of any type. If the polish wasn't there, assumingly, the price should go down by quite a bit. But of course, a lot of people here want pipes with polish... What is the price with out the polish?

Oh hey, wassup jurgs... the new MSP kickin ass?

[Turbohoses]

I was wondering if you did not include the polish into the piping, will you sell it for less... After all, T-6 aluminum comes (usually unless specially ordered) without any polish of any type. If the polish wasn't there, assumingly, the price should go down by quite a bit. But of course, a lot of people here want pipes with polish... What is the price with out the polish?

Oh hey, wassup jurgs... the new MSP kickin ass?

Unfortunately, we only sell the piping one way. All of these are done in bulk.

Also, I noticed another thread where you stated that aluminum is cheaper than steel. Possibly in some cases, but not this one. This is aircraft quality aluminum which is considerably more expensive in raw material than steel. There is also a heating process which needs to be done before it can even be bent.

Thanks,

Turbohoses R&D

[Sushi-Monster]

Ah, very true... almost forgot that... where I work, I just got a pipe bender... sad really.... was thinking of making my own pipes, but really, take a torch, heat it to a mellow yellow and away you go... Too bad about the polish thing, cause heh, I know the pipes are cheaper when not polished...

On the cost note, unless I'm mistaken, steel is still more expenive than T-6... and stainless more so, but I live in Canada, maybe our cost on materials are cheaper! But AirCraft aluminum??? Is there such a thing???? hahaha

Still, using aluminum of such a high certification is very commendable. And to use it in our cars is very understanding... like as S-U said b4, if your going to do it, do it right the first time. But do we really need to have such nice stuff when you don't need that high grade of aluminum for our cars?

[FBI14]

Turbohoses, I dont know If I asked this and you answered or not, but is it possible for you keep the specs to build the IC with the extar bolt altough most want it without to keep cost down?

[Turbohoses]

Turbohoses, I dont know If I asked this and you answered or not, but is it possible for you keep the specs to build the IC with the extar bolt altough most want it without to keep cost down?


Although our testing is just about complete, we are still trying to make that one bolt work without an additional charge. I can not say if we can do it, but we are trying.

Turbohoses R&D

[Turbohoses]

Ah, very true... almost forgot that... where I work, I just got a pipe bender... sad really.... was thinking of making my own pipes, but really, take a torch, heat it to a mellow yellow and away you go... Too bad about the polish thing, cause heh, I know the pipes are cheaper when not polished...

On the cost note, unless I'm mistaken, steel is still more expenive than T-6... and stainless more so, but I live in Canada, maybe our cost on materials are cheaper! But AirCraft aluminum??? Is there such a thing???? hahaha

Still, using aluminum of such a high certification is very commendable. And to use it in our cars is very understanding... like as S-U said b4, if your going to do it, do it right the first time. But do we really need to have such nice stuff when you don't need that high grade of aluminum for our cars?


Our pricing for aluminum is considerably higher than steel. Steel is the cheapest metal to use and purchase here. In the past few months the costs of metal sky rocketed due to our metals being exported to China. This affected our ability to keep pricing where we initially anticipated. Our second batch of piping cost us 10.00 more per kit than our first set. However, Street Unit still absorbed the cost and did not mark it up to his customers.

Turbohoses philosophy is not always to use the best materials in every situation, but to use them where we have found substantial results. Our tests concluded that when steel vs. aluminum was used, the IAT temperatures were 30 dg. higher, which is a substantial difference.

Turbohoses R&D

[Sushi-Monster]

that would explain quite a bit of why your material cost so much... Yeah China uses almost 3 times as much resources then we do. It's quite amazing as how much they just import on raw materials alone....

[wicked]

Sorry turbo hoses,but this guy pissed me off.he should have kept it to himself
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77001&page=7&pp=15

[Turbohoses]

Sorry turbo hoses,but this guy pissed me off.he should have kept it to himself
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77001&page=7&pp=15


All we can do is post data and information necessary to validate the products that we design. Some times they work, some times they don't, but either way we will post our results so that the end user can know the benefit of each product.
We hope that this information helps all of the MSP community in making a decision that works for the individual.

Turbohoses R&D

[DSMConvert]

my response was due to the fact that you initially bashed my products for absolutely no reason. A fellow member simply asked a question about BOVs and you instantly responded that my products were crap. Now if he had of asked your opinion then you could of given it, but he didnt, you just stuck your nose where it didnt belong. I have no problem with turbohoses.com I have a problem with you acting like their PR.

[StreetUnit]

You do have a problem with Turbohoses. You keep challenging your steel pipes to the aluminum ones.

"Watch out overpriced vendors....we're coming for you...."

Watch out MAZDASPEEDERS, cheap knockoffs are hitting the market.

[MazdaSpeedSter]

So how much would be to get the pipe's and intercooler to my door? whats the link again, can't seem to find it....

[StreetUnit]

http://www.msprotege.com/vbb230/showthread.php?t=78573&page=1&pp=20

Order information thread.