Confused about Engine mangement systems [Archive]

StreakinOraNgeX

07-30-2004, 04:22 PM

I'm confused as to why mostly everyone is into the mpi tuner or unichip. Doesnt the mpi tuner do the same thing such as super afc or greddy e-mangage units? Why would somebody lay down 900 dollars for a unichip when they can get a greddy or apexi unit for under $400?From what I hear the mpi tuner is pricey too...what gives

Dexter

07-30-2004, 04:23 PM

because the apexi afc units have not been fully proven to work. the emanage also needs more info /people using it before it becomes fully acceptable.

StreakinOraNgeX

07-30-2004, 04:25 PM

oic

Striker187

07-30-2004, 04:39 PM

plus with the afc, it only controls fuel, not timing. with the others, you can control both.

NoVaMSP

07-30-2004, 04:46 PM

UC is plug and play and can be retuned by a pro and taken out and returned to stock easily it is a little expensive 875$ + 200 if you wanted custom maps
mpi tuner can be tuned at home but will require a little more install (hardwire) and is also pretty expensive actually if you were to get there maf and had it pro installed and tuned your talking about 1200$
i dont know alot about emanage but i hear its got alot of options+ may require trick install . and can be tuned at home or by a pro
the afc has been around for a while but doesnt have alot of options when compared to the others also may require a couple tricks to get it to work and can be tuned at home

i bought the unichip because i wanted plug in fix for alot of the issues the car has
also i dont know how well i could tune on my own , and decided that reguardless of what system i chose i would leave the tuning to the pros - it does work great and if you added up the cost of having the other systems tuned by a pro they come pretty close in price .
my second choice was the MPI . alot of members are having great results with it
it was a little more $$ then i wanted to spend and didnt trust my self with the install/ tune.

1FASTMSP

07-30-2004, 06:02 PM

i will be tuning the emanage as soon as all my parts come in, also, orangezoom is already running it problem free, i will do a complete how-to once i start everything...

Striker187

07-30-2004, 06:23 PM

hurry up, someone's gotta take discreet's place while he's down :D

CONEH8R

07-30-2004, 06:26 PM

jrodhotrod

07-30-2004, 07:34 PM

Don't forget about the Haltech E6X ;)

FC3s Boy

07-30-2004, 08:00 PM

yep the haltech is proven to work well, but not for a novice tuner

1FASTMSP

07-30-2004, 08:10 PM

hurry up, someone's gotta take discreet's place while he's down :D
all i am waiting on is parts, then its go time...

PHILLY-ORANGE

07-30-2004, 08:22 PM

What about the AEM?

WillisW555

07-31-2004, 12:19 AM

What about the AEM?
I didn't know that there was still someone doing the AEM. That was supposed to be around $1,500, PnP, and self learning over time.

Bigg Tim

07-31-2004, 12:44 AM

Unichip isn't bad, but they have a few bugs that needs to be ironed out in my opinion. Right now the MPI software is the best option for a full tune. Unichip is good if you don't want to be able to tune. MPI is what i'm going with. It's not that expensive if you do just the software, if you add the extra injectors and such, it can get over $1k in price. All the bigs dogs are tuned with MPI from what I remember. Really depends on your end goal.
RIGHT!!! There is a speed in Canada with 1 xtra injector and at 8psi and put over 240whp down. He put down 230whp with no xtra injector. Can't beat 230whp for less than 800 bucks!!! It is not for someone who does not want to tune, but if you want to control timing and fuel, it is the best bang for the buck and the support is the shit!!!

Puckpimp71

07-31-2004, 02:25 AM

If you're a novice tuner, there's really little risk in choosing the MPI over the Unichip as maps and tuning help are available from more experienced forum members. The only reason I'm thinking about the Unichip over the MPI is that I don't have much time for my car and it's PnP so I can jump to stock. I think that for the money and performance, MPI is a better deal.

spacemonkey

07-31-2004, 10:31 AM

yup cuz the only EMU proven to work with our cars are Unichip and MPI tunner. There is also AEM standalone. Some have gotten Emanage to work.

Unichip is probally the most hassel free just PnP.

wicked

07-31-2004, 04:04 PM

jrodhotrod

07-31-2004, 04:31 PM

yup cuz the only EMU proven to work with our cars are Unichip and MPI tunner. There is also AEM standalone. Some have gotten Emanage to work.

Unichip is probally the most hassel free just PnP.
Again, the Haltech works, and works well. But I'll agree with Chris from SPD, it's not for the novice.

In order from easiest to most difficult it would be: Unichip, MPI, Haltech (the AEM and Emanage are still somewhat un-proven, but in theory whenever one of the vendors gets the AEM out and widely available it will be plug and play as well)

orangezoom

07-31-2004, 04:34 PM

Again, the Haltech works, and works well. But I'll agree with Chris from SPD, it's not for the novice.

In order from easiest to most difficult it would be: Unichip, MPI, Haltech (the AEM and Emanage are still somewhat un-proven, but in theory whenever one of the vendors gets the AEM out and widely available it will be plug and play as well)
You know I am getting a little tired of this unproven stuff, I have had my, Emanage on for a year, How long have you had your haltech? I have had this on longer then any other engine management.

Dexter

07-31-2004, 04:38 PM

You know I am getting a little tired of this unproven stuff, I have had my, Emanage on for a year, How long have you had your haltech? I have had this on longer then any other engine management.
Yah, dude, its unproven.

OTHER people have tried the emanage and failed. Untill we can get a consistant number of people using the same system, i'd still chock it up as 'unproven'

If you had your emanage on for a YEAR, you sure didnt post about it.

The Haltech WORKS 100% for sure: the F10X is used by HiBoost in thier turbo kits.

jrodhotrod

07-31-2004, 04:38 PM

You know I am getting a little tired of this unproven stuff, I have had my, Emanage on for a year, How long have you had your haltech? I have had this on longer then any other engine management.
okay, maybe unproven was a bad choice in words. What I should have said, was proven choices from vendors. To my knowledge you are the only one that has successfully been running the E-manage. To me that's a one off. Braden (Turboge) was running it for a while, but the ECU kept learning around it so it never really worked. As I understand it you found a work around for it, but others have yet to try it.

It's all about numbers.

We have lots of forum members running the MPI, Lots of forum memebers using the Unichip, Lots of forum members running with the Haltech, As folks start trying and the knowledge becomes readily available the Emanage will be "proven" too.

I am all for it working, I believe the more stuff that we have working on our cars the better.

Dexter

07-31-2004, 04:40 PM

Post some numbers, graphs, charts , wiring diagrams in a how to, and i will consider it proven.

orangezoom

07-31-2004, 04:41 PM

I am sorry I just looked it was January 1 2004 I put it on, Sorry.
I agree the more stuff the better.

orangezoom

07-31-2004, 04:43 PM

Post some numbers, graphs, charts , wiring diagrams in a how to, and i will consider it proven.
I can do all the above,except wire, I did not wire it.

orangezoom

07-31-2004, 04:46 PM

Yah, dude, its unproven.

OTHER people have tried the emanage and failed. Untill we can get a consistant number of people using the same system, i'd still chock it up as 'unproven'

If you had your emanage on for a YEAR, you sure didnt post about it.

The Haltech WORKS 100% for sure: the F10X is used by HiBoost in thier turbo kits.
Dude mine is proven and I have proved it, and I will have my car available to anyone who wants to see it.

orangezoom

07-31-2004, 04:46 PM

and I said 1/01/04 I stand corrected

speedhawaii

07-31-2004, 05:26 PM

anyone in florida from the boards checked your car out yet?

orangezoom

07-31-2004, 05:29 PM

No two guys from the east coast where going to come over but they never showed.

speedhawaii

07-31-2004, 05:59 PM

i remember people wanting to see it thats why

orangezoom

07-31-2004, 06:04 PM

I am always game I want people to see it. Actually if someone who really new what they were doing could look at mine and figure out how to wire it.
Not many people near me, a lot in Miami, Tampa and Orlando, I am in nowheres ville

mspeedpro

07-31-2004, 06:06 PM

once you hook up mpi tuner and find a suitable map or two-- i have done no research and dont know if u can toggle maps without laptop, is that all you need forever or until you want to tune maps again?? sounds not too bad

PHILLY-ORANGE

07-31-2004, 07:08 PM

The AEM is out I'm getting it installed right now by Andrew Wagner fully programeable with lab top. I can change the boost pressure and the AEM will adjust the a/f and timing automatically. Comes with maps and you can create new ones you adjust the rpms from redlining.

speedhawaii

07-31-2004, 09:19 PM

pics :)

orangezoom

07-31-2004, 09:28 PM

http://www.aempower.com/default.asp

If you look at the AEM website there is no plug and play for Mazda except Miata. Maybe you mean Wagner is going to wire it himself. But No plug and play

speedhawaii

07-31-2004, 09:49 PM

aem supposedly allowed wagner to distribute and work on it for proteges.

i think beau is also gonna use aem. may be wrong though.

jrodhotrod

07-31-2004, 10:13 PM

Yup, Wagner was developing the AEM but you can't buy it yet, just a couple of cars with it now. I think they are still working the bugs out.

Beau at Mental Addiction is also working on getting the AEM up and running.

orangezoom

07-31-2004, 10:15 PM

o cool that will be nice but that is really expensive isn't it? $1500.00

speedhawaii

07-31-2004, 10:23 PM

i think a lil less. try 1000-1200

PHILLY-ORANGE

07-31-2004, 10:52 PM

No I'll be the only MSP in the country that has the AEM. There are ones out there that have it but, here for the MP3 or Mazda 5. Wagner has them, and there for sale now. I pick mine up the middle of next week. Andy will show dyno results then he's getting his dyno installed next week. It cost me about 2150.00 when all done but well worth it. I'm getting the internals done then the turbo T4 upgrade so the AEM can be tuned for all applications.

speedhawaii

08-01-2004, 03:13 AM

crazy car. musta been expensive but im sure ull love it.

orangezoom

08-01-2004, 10:18 AM

$2150.00 WOW hope it turns out great man. You getting fuel pump and injectors?

PHILLY-ORANGE

08-01-2004, 10:21 AM

With the AEM I won't need it, Now when I get the T4 turbo,manafold and internals yes I'm going to need injectors and fuel pump.

orangezoom

08-01-2004, 10:26 AM

Why wont you need it? I can control my injectors also and they where maxed out from the factory. You will see. If you want to up your boost at all safely you will need injectors, I know Andy will find that out.
That is nice having the AEM, a lot of programing, how far along is he?

PHILLY-ORANGE

08-01-2004, 10:48 AM

He's pushing the boost up to 14 safely. Andy is almost done he's just keeping it till he can dyno it at his shop. He had the car for awhile now and I miss her! I'm just counting down the days.

orangezoom

08-01-2004, 10:53 AM

Let me show you this is the dyno witht the emanage controlling injectors and if you look at the dyno I had a FMU on the car. I took that off now.

orangezoom

08-01-2004, 10:55 AM

14psi!!! the dyno you see there is about 8.5psi so I do not understand how he can put yours at 14, but I do not know everything that is for sure. I do wish you luck

spacemonkey

08-01-2004, 11:14 AM

o cool that will be nice but that is really expensive isn't it? $1500.00Yup, but I say its worth it...its a full standalone. I would get it but im not interested in makeing crazy HP #s. Its also the most user friendly standalone...it has a "self-tunning" fuinction...basically if you have a ugeo wide band O2 you can set basic parameters drive the car around and the unit will self tune. The interface is pretty simple that I think just about anywhere can dyno tune it. I know emanage is cheap but once you find a authorize greddy tunner it might be costly. Plus there are alot more stuff you can add on like map sensors and etc. If I had forged internals this would be my choice on standalone. And yeah its not supported by AEM...AEM gave permission to Wagner to develop a PnP harness...which isnt just the harness in his package. Theres some other things you have to add on to control the timming...cuz it doesnt piggyback the factory ECU. Which is why its so expensive...but cheaper then Microtech or Moetech... ;)

Bigg Tim

08-01-2004, 11:24 AM

I am definetly going with the MPI but I have questions about it that know one has answered.
can I tune with a apple laptop?
is there some pics of whats involved?
cost?
where can I get it?What options can I purches with it (ie,new maf,injectors)or do I have to find these else where?
can I switch between MAP's while driving w/out a laptop?

just a few
No Apple, unless you have the windows emulator, but even then I do not know. It is a windows based SW.

PM MPNick to get details. He has xtra injectors, bigger MAF's and plenty of maps out there.

You can switch between maps by just flicking a toggle switch, but it is recommended to do it at a stop. If you are going to a bigger boost map, you would need to adjust your boost yourself when changing to another map. The MPI doesn't control boost when it changes maps.

Here's a pic of the SW, you can see there are different tabs for different settings, like xtra injectors and timing.

PHILLY-ORANGE

08-01-2004, 01:52 PM

Yup, but I say its worth it...its a full standalone. I would get it but im not interested in makeing crazy HP #s. Its also the most user friendly standalone...it has a "self-tunning" fuinction...basically if you have a ugeo wide band O2 you can set basic parameters drive the car around and the unit will self tune. The interface is pretty simple that I think just about anywhere can dyno tune it. I know emanage is cheap but once you find a authorize greddy tunner it might be costly. Plus there are alot more stuff you can add on like map sensors and etc. If I had forged internals this would be my choice on standalone. And yeah its not supported by AEM...AEM gave permission to Wagner to develop a PnP harness...which isnt just the harness in his package. Theres some other things you have to add on to control the timming...cuz it doesnt piggyback the factory ECU. Which is why its so expensive...but cheaper then Microtech or Moetech... ;)
Your right in most things but it does piggy back with the factory ECU the AEM doesn't work the air con. and others, just timing, air and fuel. There is a sensor that gets installed on the cam gears that reads the timing. This is just what Andy was tell me but things might have changed.

orangezoom

08-01-2004, 01:55 PM

If I am not mistaken the AEM is full standalone, that is why it is nice it controls everything. That is why it is difficult to program you have to program everything.

PHILLY-ORANGE

08-01-2004, 02:02 PM

If I am not mistaken the AEM is full standalone, that is why it is nice it controls everything. That is why it is difficult to program you have to program everything.
I'll call Andy tom. just to clarify that incase anyone is interested in one.

orangezoom

08-01-2004, 02:03 PM

Can I ask why you are going witht the T4

PHILLY-ORANGE

08-01-2004, 02:24 PM

By this time next year I want to be pushing 350hp.

spacemonkey

08-01-2004, 09:49 PM

Your right in most things but it does piggy back with the factory ECU the AEM doesn't work the air con. and others, just timing, air and fuel. There is a sensor that gets installed on the cam gears that reads the timing. This is just what Andy was tell me but things might have changed.
Yeah thats right...but the AEM unit supported by AEM has a bunch of goodies...it can actually compensate for the A/C and others (I think from there website). I jus tthink the one develop by nick is the most basic setup...hopefully he'll unlock the full power of the AEM unit. Yeah I suppose it does rides the Factory ECU thats why its called a EMU instead of a stanalone? I guess thats they reason why its fairly cheap. Its still a quality EMU system....Im def considering it.

AEM has a forum and you can def ask them question if you want to know more about the AEM unit.