dyno results in

[boo ya speed]

i havnt put in my fuel rail injectors downpipe yet they are just sitting in my car but with intake and boost guage running 12 psi i was running a little lean and 192hp and 212 lbs not bad ill post the dyno sheet soon need to get a scanner

[MSPDAVE125]

I'm VERY interested to hear how you leaned out enough to require a 12:1 FMU.

12:1 FMU is a huge pressure increase! 380cc are not the most common injector but are bigger than stock. And Fuel rail with more volume?

FYI your stock fuel pump won't support a 12:1 FMU....

You'll need a Wabro 255 hi pressure pump for sure.

[Black Majik MSP]

You're trying to say that you dynoed 192/212 with just 12psi & the AEM CAI? (boom02)

[boo ya speed]

zx

[MSPDAVE125]

No bullshit called here! Just curious about your fueling choices!!!!

[boo ya speed]

No bullshit called here! Just curious about your fueling choices!!!!

yeas i know, the vortex fmu is auto set to 12:1 ratio but im not going with that choice anymore im going with the emanage so i have full control anyways plus my computer isnt letting me go past 14 psi so with the emanage with the ignition set i will be able to overide that as well,

also i am getting that dyno sheet up as fast as i can

[orangezoom]

yeas i know, the vortex fmu is auto set to 12:1 ratio but im not going with that choice anymore im going with the emanage so i have full control anyways plus my computer isnt letting me go past 14 psi so with the emanage with the ignition set i will be able to overide that as well,

also i am getting that dyno sheet up as fast as i can
You will need new fuel pump and 440 injectors

[boo ya speed]

why 440 injectors?

[orangezoom]

Your stock ones will not pump enough fuel

[boo ya speed]

yeah i have 380s im going to have to hard wire the harness but thats easy my fuel rail just got delayed today so i wont see it for 2-3 weeks damn canadians lost my order

[MSPDAVE125]

yeah i have 380s im going to have to hard wire the harness but thats easy my fuel rail just got delayed today so i wont see it for 2-3 weeks damn canadians lost my order
Hey watch it! I'm a damn Canadian and I can make it so you're Fuel Rail is lost forever! J/K..

Yeah OE 4G63 injectors are 440cc's they are a good fit for the MSP. You can find em on Ebay for like 100.00 USD.

[tekkie]

Do you have bigger injectors on your MSP Dave? you need to come out to some of the toprotege meets dude ;)

[MSPDAVE125]

Got'em yes... Installed? No.... Once I have the equipment to reduce the duty cycle on them.... then they'll go in...

[TurfBurn]

are you sure they drop in without the o-ring and all those other issues that were the problem with RX-7 injectors? and the 4g63.... is that the evo motor or one of the eclipse motors... sad since I use to be a mitusbishi guy... but it would be helpful info for people that read the thread to know for sure which car you are referring to and which engine/displacement it is... not a lot of things get listed by their engine codes unfortunately.

[MSPDAVE125]

As you would with any injector, you change the O-ring. But yes I believe they can drop right in.

The 4G63 has had 3 generations in North America now. 1989-1994 /1995-1999/ 2003-up EVO.

The 4G63 has been around since the mid 80's in Japan.

I beg to differ. Everyone I know talks in engine codes/ chassis codes rather than displacements/ # of cyl. Once you learn them you never forget'em!

[TurfBurn]

As you would with any injector, you change the O-ring. But yes I believe they can drop right in.

The 4G63 has had 3 generations in North America now. 1989-1994 /1995-1999/ 2003-up EVO.

The 4G63 has been around since the mid 80's in Japan.

I beg to differ. Everyone I know talks in engine codes/ chassis codes rather than displacements/ # of cyl. Once you learn them you never forget'em!
When I said change the o-ring I was referring to needing a new size, having to have a new spacer and all the other "little" modifications that some injectors require to "drop in" on our cars. I will need new injectors this fall, so I'm searching at this time.

You also I think slightly misunderstood me on the engine/chassis codes. Most tuners and people who modify cars and are enthusiasts talk in those terms yes. But unfortunately most people on EBay and many online vendors/stores do NOT use the codes. The better ones often do, but if you go on ebay and search for 4G63 injectors you'll get far less hits than for turbo eclipse injectors... even though it is the same engine typically! That was all... but yes the codes matter a lot more and are better for terms, but for those that aren't experienced enough or are very forgetful (like me!) knowing the code and the associated car/displacment/model that it is associated is helpful!

Thanks for clearing that up though and for the good info! Might be time for me to go hunting for soe EVO injectors :)

[MSPDAVE125]

I see what you mean many sellers on EBAY are rather generic in their descriptions. Sorry for the confusion

With regards to the O-Ring. I don't think a new size is required.. It seemed snug to me.

What weird though is i've seen 2 or 3 MSP's now with different combo's of OE injectors. Like I have 2 denso and 2 Mitsu's from factory another guy had all Mitsu.

you may want to check out the EVO injectors as this is the 3rd gen 2.0L turbo(4G63) and even though it's coded the same, alot of external components were changed...

[TurfBurn]

I'm also hearing word that the WRX injectors will drop in without any modification. So I may have to consider that path as well. Whatever ends up being the most reasonable!

[muohio]

I'm also hearing word that the WRX injectors will drop in without any modification. So I may have to consider that path as well. Whatever ends up being the most reasonable!
Please keep us posted. I'm also trying to research larger injectors but having a hard time keeping things straight. At one point, HiBoost was offering RC engineering injectors with spacers and some type of connector adapter. I'm really curious what was meant by connector adapter. Sounds like you plug the stock connection on one end and then into the injector on the other end without any modification. Honestly, if some vendor got on the ball and made an adapter, they could probably score some business. I would personally pay for adapters if they where good quality. *Hint*Hint* to all vendors ;)

[Black Majik MSP]

You're trying to say that you dynoed 192/212 with just 12psi & the AEM CAI? (boom02)
I still don't see any dyno sheet to disprove my skepticism.

[TurfBurn]

I asked a vendor about the injectors, he indicated it was a positive fit, but I'm not holding him to that statement. But it sounds like they are good to go. I'm going to give them a try when I get to needing them ... but it will be a while...

[boo ya speed]

i need to get re dynoed cause now i have my fuel pump in and my down pipe on but ill post the old one too or you can pm david shea hes a p5 guy and hes stationed up here with me but i dont have a scanner so im not about to go to kinkos and pay to scan a dyno

[HiBoost TS]

Please keep us posted. I'm also trying to research larger injectors but having a hard time keeping things straight. At one point, HiBoost was offering RC engineering injectors with spacers and some type of connector adapter. I'm really curious what was meant by connector adapter. Sounds like you plug the stock connection on one end and then into the injector on the other end without any modification. Honestly, if some vendor got on the ball and made an adapter, they could probably score some business. I would personally pay for adapters if they where good quality. *Hint*Hint* to all vendors ;)
Our injector kit is as follows:

4 Bosch 440CC injectors, 4 new connectors, 4 spacers $320.00

They are brand new injectors and you need to change the connectors to make them work.

Many guys are running this in their P5s MP3s and MSP.

[muohio]

Our injector kit is as follows:

4 Bosch 440CC injectors, 4 new connectors, 4 spacers $320.00

They are brand new injectors and you need to change the connectors to make them work.

Many guys are running this in their P5s MP3s and MSP. Could you explain changing connectors? How do the connectors in the kit work in the grand scheme? Please say that it's an easy swap from the old injectors :) Will this also require a new fuel pump?

[MPNick]

I asked a vendor about the injectors, he indicated it was a positive fit, but I'm not holding him to that statement. But it sounds like they are good to go. I'm going to give them a try when I get to needing them ... but it will be a while...
WE have installed the WRX injectors in the stock Protege intake and fuel rail. They are PnP.

The problem is the run rich at idle and the lowend.

[muohio]

WE have installed the WRX injectors in the stock Protege intake and fuel rail. They are PnP.

The problem is the run rich at idle and the lowend.
That can be corrected by MPI Tuner (or any tuner) or is it something to live with?

[Mx6GT91]

Yeah OE 4G63 injectors are 440cc's they are a good fit for the MSP.

There actually 450's (doh)
The 1st gen turbo automatics are 380's

So a 255lph pump, 12psi, and an intake you were running lean?? How much boost can the stock injectors handle with a 255lph, what about a 190lph??

Wouldnt opening up the exhaust cause it to run leaner??

[1FASTMSP]

the other great thing about wrx injectors is that you can modify them to pump out around 800cc's...if you need that much fuel

[boo ya speed]

to wire the harness alls you do is cut and seal dosnt matter about which wire you hard wire its only a pulse you cant get it backwards it makes no dif.

[Mx6GT91]

So a 255lph pump, 12psi, and an intake you were running lean?? How much boost can the stock injectors handle with a 255lph, what about a 190lph??

[turbo speedy]

so the wrx injectors will drop in no problem
with no modification to them >?<

[1FASTMSP]

so the wrx injectors will drop in no problem
with no modification to them >?<
i am trying to find out that answer, i want to make sure before i just start pulling my stock injectors off...

[turbo speedy]

ok i hope u find out quick :) (lol2)

[1FASTMSP]

yup, no modification is what i have been told, unless you want to modify how far they sit into the manifold...i will chime back in when they are actually installed

[boo ya speed]

thought i deleted threasd oh well ill post here to

[PHILLY-ORANGE]

Is there a model # for the WRX injectors I need 4 myself and if someone can let me know where to find a larger fuel pump. And if the STI are the same as the WRX injectors? Thanks

[srd555]

Is there a model # for the WRX injectors I need 4 myself and if someone can let me know where to find a larger fuel pump. And if the STI are the same as the WRX injectors? Thanks
My Subaru friends tell me that the USDM STI injector are side feed as opposed to the WRX's top feed design; so no they will not fit the MSP. Also the STI injectors are 550cc ( from what I have been told ).

[jred321]

Yeah OE 4G63 injectors are 440cc's they are a good fit for the MSP. You can find em on Ebay for like 100.00 USD.as mx6gt said, the stockers in the US are 450's. there are also yellow top injectors that came in some japanese 4g63's that are 510's, and the aforementioned 380's that came on the 4g63. i'm also willing to bet the evo 8 uses larger than 450's. referring to these injectors by engine code isn't the best idea because of all of the differences over the many many years the engine has been around :)


boo ya speed- that is one of the roughest dynos i've ever seen, get that thing tuned :)

[orangezoom]

Where are your A/F?
Also you are losing crazy HP in the top why? Fuel?

[PHILLY-ORANGE]

[QUOTE=srd555]My Subaru friends tell me that the USDM STI injector are side feed as opposed to the WRX's top feed design; so no they will not fit the MSP. Also the STI injectors are 550cc ( from what I have been told ).[/QUOT

Thanks for the info. So whats the right injector? I need 440 or higher I can control the injector from my AEM EMS so I'm not to worried about the size just that it will fit and work properly.

[ONRAILS]

He also has a catless down pipe. I got those exact numbers, except I was at 10psi. I have 2.5 cat w/dp, 2.5 pipe to axle (resonator deleted), mbc, fcd, injen.


I still don't see any dyno sheet to disprove my skepticism.

[1FASTMSP]

[QUOTE=srd555]My Subaru friends tell me that the USDM STI injector are side feed as opposed to the WRX's top feed design; so no they will not fit the MSP. Also the STI injectors are 550cc ( from what I have been told ).[/QUOT

Thanks for the info. So whats the right injector? I need 440 or higher I can control the injector from my AEM EMS so I'm not to worried about the size just that it will fit and work properly.
you need stock WRX injectors, they are light blue and top feed and high impedence, they drop straight in with no problem....also, make sure they have not been modified, otherwise they will be running around 800cc

i got a set from ebay for $60, and got my walbro GSS342 fuel pump on ebay for $80...

[PHILLY-ORANGE]

Hey thanks for the info.

[muohio]

Hasn't one of the MPI Tuner owners proved that a fuel pump isn't necessary with 440cc injectors?

[daedalus]

not a big deal, but AT/ 4G63's came with 390cc not 380cc. *Shameless plug* I have a set of 390's for sale that i was going to use on my 4G63 NA project car, but that blew up so if anyone wants em i'm not using them...

[1FASTMSP]

Hasn't one of the MPI Tuner owners proved that a fuel pump isn't necessary with 440cc injectors?
i think dean's car is running stock fuel pump, but that is with extra injectors, not bigger injectors, iirc...

[boo ya speed]

im in the mountains so its harder for me to get hp plus no fuel thats why i lost so much top end

[DSMConvert]

hmmm seems you guys are a little confused on DSM injectors....DSMs came in 3 different engine types...420A(N/A engine) 4G63(Turbos) and the 4G64(2.4L N/A). 420s came with 380cc, 4G63s came with 440cc, and the 4G64 I believe came with the 390s. 510cc injectors were on the jdm galant vr4 models. You can pick up 440s all day for 50 bucks shipped, infact I just sold 2 sets for that. When I built my mx6 FS03 I used 440s from a dsm and they supplied plenty of fuel for my t3/04. 440s will push enough fuel to run 18ish psi on a t25 turbo, but you will have to upgrade the fuel pump on mazdas.

[jred321]

auto 1g turbos had 390's and a smaller turbo (13g i think), 1g manual had 450's and the 14b, 2g turbo had 450's regardless of drivetrain but a crappy t25, the 1g 2.0 na (i believe a 4g63 still) ran 240's, the 1.8l a little smaller injector but nobody cared enough to measure them, the 2g na motor (neon motor, 420a) ran 235's. i couldn't find what the 4g64 ran in the 2 minutes it took to search for all of this on dsmtalk. so you can get 4g63 injectors in 3 different sizes in US models of the engine (not counting evo8), and dsm injectors (if you count all 2g's as dsm's) in 6 different sizes

[DSMConvert]

hmm wow I wonder how we both got our info off the same site and ended up with different #s? I prob superimposed a # somewhere... at any rate 450s are the only thing worth getting and should supply plenty of fuel...if you're worried about buying used injectors there is a company that will flow chart them and balance them for fairly cheap(means they'll be basically new and have charts with them). If you scroll down the link below there will be an injector chart...The chart is actually for a 2g but will give you a good idea of what fuel mods you will have to do for an MSP. Please note the stock 2g fuel pump flows slightly less than a 190 wally, I'm not sure on the MSP.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclfuel.htm

[TurfBurn]

I called roadrace and talked to them directly. They actually just send the injectors to RC Engineering to have the work done, so you can send them directly to them. The cost is 100 bucks for 4 injectors... the process is pretty involved too

http://www.rceng.com/service.htm

I think I'll just do this to my injectors since I already have 8 of the same 550cc injectors.

This is also interseting and important because then I can match all my injectors to be the most consistent for overall flow so that I'm sure each cylinder gets the same amount of fuel per pulse.