winter tires for the 17"

[Airman Jack]

Can you guys recommend a good winter/snow tire that would fit on the 17's that come with the GT? Here's what I'm thinking of doing: buy a really nice set of summer/rain tires and put them on a new set of 18" rims (probably white...mmm white rims!) and then once the crapyears die (I'm not being friendly to them right now anyway) replace them with winter/snows.
Thanks!

edit: I'll be moving out to Moosejaw, Saskatchewan likely some time this winter, so I'll probably do the snows anyway and then buy the 18's next spring. Think I'd be able to sell, or at least trade for a discount the used badyears if they still have some life in them?

[goldwing2000]

Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25.

You probably won't get anything for the used RSAs. You might find some sucker to give you $10-20 a piece for them but no shop will give you anything for them unless they are defective and within the manufacturer's warranty period.

[bluntman]

Toyo SnowProx 9xx

[ham]

I asked a similar question a while back and have done a fair amount of research since. For what it's worth, I'm a fellow 'Nuck with winter driving history in Winter-peg, Regina, Halifax, Edmonton and now Calgary.

What I've found in my research is that either the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 or WS-50 are best-in-class snow tires (better than the Toyo SnowProx and Michelin Artic-Alpine). The WS-50 doesn't come in a 205-50-17 but does come in 205-55-16 (works out to a 1/5" total diameter difference). The LM-22 comes in both sizes.

I did my reserach by reading reviews on tirerack.com (US) and tiretrends.com
(CDN) and calling around to ask some of the suppliers here in Calgary. Needless to say the Blizzaks are the most expensive but moving up to the LM-22 in the 17" will cost you about CDN $60 per tire more than the 16". Expect to pay about $170 per tire for the LM-22 16" and $230!!! per tire for the LM-22 17".

My plan is to buy some plain old black steel wheels in 16" and have the LM-22s installed and balanced as a permanent set of winters. I'll swap them out with the crappy OEM 17" RS-A's myself each fall/spring. That way I'll protect the 17" alloys from the winter road salts and the price difference between the 16"s and 17"s will more than pay for the plain steel wheels. I'll also not have to go through the hassle of having some shop burn me for swapping out my rubber twice a year.

Like you, if I thought I could get any value out of selling the OEM 205-50-17 RS-A's, I'd do it in a minute and put some real performance tires on for better weather but you can't get much more than $20 per around here for them. I guess the reputation is out.

Good luck in Mosse Jaw eh!

ham

[Airman Jack]

thanks for the advice ham! but I'm not looking to swap the rubber on my 17's, I'm planning on putting on a good set of winter tires on the 17's, then next spring I'll buy a set of 18's with summer tires on 'em and leave the winters on the 17's.

[ham]

I understand you want to use the stock 17" alloys as your winter wheels... having "done time" where you're moving I think you'll find that the road salts will have them looking fairly ordinary after a winter or two.

Just a thought, even if you want to stay with 17" - perhaps you could sell the stock alloys (should be able to get something decent for them) and buy some plain steel 17" for the winter. At +/- $40 per steel wheel, they're pretty much disposable after two or three winters anyway.

The Blizzak WS-50 doesn't come in a 17" but the LM-22 does and that's the model I'm leaning toward myself. One thing is for sure - after the reviews I've read on tirerack.com about the stock "all-season" Eagle RS/As, I'll be switching to my winter rubber at the very first sign of the white stuff.

cheers,
ham

thanks for the advice ham! but I'm not looking to swap the rubber on my 17's, I'm planning on putting on a good set of winter tires on the 17's, then next spring I'll buy a set of 18's with summer tires on 'em and leave the winters on the 17's.

[3Wheeler]

I traded my stock horribleyears in for Khumo ASX All Seasons (a "plus zero" move from 205/50/17s to 225/45/17's) the first week I had the car. Got $70 each for them at OK tire (called around--that was the highest offer). Huge improvement in handling. Couldn't stand the thought of having to suffer through wearing out the horribleyears.

We don't get much snow out here on the West Coast, and I'm not a skier, so my thinking is that I can just creep around on the ASXs in the unlikely chance I have to drive in anything serious.

Just got new springs and rear anti-sway, though, and now I need new tires again! My expert tells me my current rubber is only allowing me to utilize about 70% of the new suspension's potential.

So soon the ASXs become dedicated winter tires (i.e., at first sign of more than an inch of snow sticking, get in line at the garage to put them on), and I'll be riding on new super duper ultra high performance summers, going to 235/40/18's (a "plus one" move, within 1% of stock horribleyears' rolling diameter).

That whooshing sound you hear is my bank account emptying....(2thumbs)

[Mikey444]

I have some winter driving experience up here in Québec myslef, trust me, even with a winter tire you wouldnt want to be with a 17" wheel even with winter tire. For the Mazda 3 the best thing is a 15" steel wheel with P195/65 R15 winter tire, only cost 138 Canadian dollars each, wheel + tire. i would keep the stock rims you have and put some nice high performance summer tire on it next year. The stock rims look really nice to me on the Mazda 3.

[Manny Fresh]

Currently riding on Falken Ziex ZE-512's at 215/45/Z17 on the stock 17" rim. They're pretty good if you're looking for an "All Season". I'm not too sure how they handle in snow, but we'll find out in a couple months.

As for a pure winter tire, everyone I know recommends Blizzak's.

[ham]

I agree Mikey... not only will the narrower tire (195) cut through the snow better, 15" rubber is cheaper than 16" and certainly than 17".

The issue I have is that I want the Blizzak LS-22 and they don't make them for an appropriate 15" wheel... they do for the 16" though. The Blizzak WS-50 does come in a 195/65/15 and that may be where I end up this winter.

cheers,
ham

I have some winter driving experience up here in Québec myslef, trust me, even with a winter tire you wouldnt want to be with a 17" wheel even with winter tire. For the Mazda 3 the best thing is a 15" steel wheel with P195/65 R15 winter tire, only cost 138 Canadian dollars each, wheel + tire. i would keep the stock rims you have and put some nice high performance summer tire on it next year. The stock rims look really nice to me on the Mazda 3.

[Mikey444]

This winter I'm poping 15" stock steel wheels and buying the stock all season rire for it. No winter tire cause My mom and sister do too much highway driving and when the roads are dry they like to go fast. I'm getting a Mazda 6 as my new ride, I will just leave the stock everything on it. It is a heavier and bigger car, should be easier to handle than the 3 with stock 17" wheels.

[wongpres]

This winter I'm poping 15" stock steel wheels and buying the stock all season rire for it. No winter tire cause My mom and sister do too much highway driving and when the roads are dry they like to go fast. I'm getting a Mazda 6 as my new ride, I will just leave the stock everything on it. It is a heavier and bigger car, should be easier to handle than the 3 with stock 17" wheels.
15-inch rims will NOT fit on any N. American-spec Mazda3 with the 2.3l engine. The smallest tires you can go with the 2.3l is 16-inch because Mazda tied the larger rotors with the 2.3l in N. American-spec.

[goldwing2000]

Forgot all about that! Thanks, wongpres.

[Mikey444]

15-inch rims will NOT fit on any N. American-spec Mazda3 with the 2.3l engine. The smallest tires you can go with the 2.3l is 16-inch because Mazda tied the larger rotors with the 2.3l in N. American-spec.
It aint like that on the Canadian models I guess because the sticker on the drivers side door of the car shows that the P195/65R15 fits too as well as the 16" and 17".

[crossbow]

http://www.vredestein.com/autobanden/index.asp?TaalID=3

Tires in particular (WINTRAC V XL (http://www.vredestein.com/autobanden/Main.asp?menuID=3&UserSessionID=84209406&BandCategorieID=1&BandToepassingID=2&BandTypeID=465))
http://www.vredestein.com/autobanden/Page_Tyres.asp?

I've been recommended to go with vredestein by tireswap. Unlike many of the other Silica based snow/winter tires, The V's are (V) speed rated, have reinforced sidewalls (for handling) and have neither of the disadvantages of standard winter tires (usually winter tires result in increased road noise, and decreased ride comfort).

They've even got a size spec'd in 225/45/17. Now thats some crazy goodness. I'll be running these in Maryland this winter on Kosei K1-TS rims. (225/45/17 WINTRAC V XL (http://www.vredestein.com/autobanden/Main.asp?menuID=3&UserSessionID=84209406&BandCategorieID=1&BandToepassingID=2&BandTypeID=465))

Remember that as per other posts...

All-season tires are mediocre in all things. They do "ok" in snow, "ok" in rain, and "ok" on dry. If you want to upgrade ok to excellent, amazing, or orgasmic, your going to need to get two sets of rims, and run one set for the winter/snow, and one set for the spring/summer/dry. Otherwise don't expect miracles. All-seasons are usually just barely suitable for winter driving, just as their barely suitable for performance driving.

The stock all-seasons (michs pilots) on the 6's were so horrid on the 17's, that it made winter driving dangerous.

[goldwing2000]

It aint like that on the Canadian models I guess because the sticker on the drivers side door of the car shows that the P195/65R15 fits too as well as the 16" and 17".

Usually the driver's door sticker only tells you what tires/wheels the whole line of vehicles came equipped with from the factory. They use the same stickers for all the cars to cover any eventuality. It's not necessarily an indicator of what will fit on the car.

Since wongpres is in Canada, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that what he said applies to Canadian cars.

[Mikey444]

Holy shit, I'm wrong, it's true, you can only put a 16" minimum. I just checked my sticker again this morning.

[VeRmiLLioN]

195/16....should be okay.

[3Wheeler]

Well, after a saga involving undoing my first tire transaction (traded in the stock RSA's (got $260) for wrong sized (225/45/17) Khumo ASX's, then got my old tires and money back), I traded the RSA's in again (got $200) for Yokahama AVS Winter 205/50/17's, putting them on the stock rims.

I am a now very happy camper. The Yoki's are a very good ultra high performance summer tire, and apparently an awsome winter tire. They would be a true "all season" tire if you didn't worry about tread wear -- apparently they're so soft that if you ran them all year round you'd "burn them off" (tire dealer quote) pretty quickly in the summer months if you worked them hard.

I'll drive on them until next spring, when the plan is to take them off and put on 18x8" wheels with a wider, lower profile ultra high performance summer tire.

[Mikey444]

Talking about tires, my Mazda 3 is probably going to get these tires once the "BAD" years are finished. Nothing fancy but I read good things about this tire and the price is good. I dont care for a sick looking tread or anything, mostly because I wont be driving the car anymore. I just want to slap something decent on it.

http://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?tirebrand=Kumho&tiremodel=Ecsta+ASX&pc=KU21%2D7418

[crossbow]

3Wheeler,

You can't have both an awesome "ultra high performance" summer tire and winter tire in the same package. Thats technically impossible.

The main reason for this is the type of compounds used for each tire type. Winter tires generally use a compound which grips best when temperatures drop below a set degree, usually around 45F or lower. Summer tires do the opposite, they grip best in the upper temperature range and generally have a higher heat ceiling then general or all-season tires.

All-seasons tend to try to both be the same type of tire at the same time, sacrificing grip in both situations for increased ride comfort and noise levels.

I am not debating that your winter tire selection isn't good...by all reports its an excellent tire. I am just pointing out it in no way shape or form compares to a dedicated summer tire. It at closest aproximation matches a decent all-season in lateral stability and dry grip. And by reviews, does outperform the MX4 mich's...but then of course, so does half the tire market :).

[3Wheeler]

Hi Crossbow,

I don't mean any disrespect, and certainly know nothing about tire technology, but consider these:

In my experience, the Yoki AVS Winters are far better to drive than the stock Goodyears or the Kumho ASX All Seasons. They stick like glue when it's hot and dry (flew through some nice twisties last week on them). I'm not the only one to feel that they perform like summers; I saw several people expressing that thought when researching the tires, but can only locate one at the moment: Cecil's quote here http://www.1010tires.com/tirereviews.asp?manufacturer=Yokohama&model=AVS+Winter+V901
What's "technically impossible" yesterday may be possible today or tomorrow (recall Bill Gate's early comments on computers). Here's what Yoki itself says about the AVS Winters: "[O]ur high performance AVS Winter radial is in a class of its own! In fact, this signals a definitive advance in winter tire technology, a revolutionary new radial tire that’s part of our ultra-high performance AVS line but is designed expressly… for winter! Thanks to the remarkably similar construction shared with the AVS summer radial, our new AVS Winter combines the advantages of high performance with the added benefit of superior winter traction. In fact, it offers the best of both worlds: superior traction on wet or snowy surfaces and the handling of a high performance summer tire on dry pavement." Quote taken from here:http://www.yokohamatire.ca/en/tireselector/pcw.htm#avswinter
I suspect that the Yokis will outpeform some but not all high performance summers. When I go to buy my summers, I'll be trying to find ones that the Yoki AVS Winters will not outperform. Maybe more Yokis, or Toyos.

[crossbow]

3wheeler,

Read your own post. They outperform some all-seasons...not summer tires. And one of your comparitive sites...is the Yoki site itself :). Thats slightly biased :). I can definitely agree that they might outperform some all-seasons on dry payment, but not a summer tire.

The worst summer tire available, is still better then the best all season. And I'm almost certain the yoki winter tires can't match something like a Proxy4 in dry grip and lateral stability.

When I did a search on your tires they had many favorable reviews...but many of the people owning them had a second set of summer tires, which indicates their grip isn't good enough for year round use...and that they excel in what their designed for...grip in temps below 45F.

Basically if you drove on winter tires, on hot summer alphalt, they'd tear themselves to pieces, and you'd be left with chunked up, useless winter tires. Trust me on this one. Its due to the material used in the tire, not the tread or design.

[Bluesv]

hey, Mike444, if u are getting those tires get them where I gat it for, which is here http://www.tirerack.com the list price is only 93$ plus shiping campered to yours 133, I hope u will get this message before u buy, also this tire gets my thumps up, since I am happy with it

[goldwing2000]

hey, Mike444, if u are getting those tires get them where I gat it for, which is here http://www.tirerack.com the list price is only 93$ plus shiping campered to yours 133, I hope u will get this message before u buy, also this tire gets my thumps up, since I am happy with it

He's in Canada. If you do the exchange rate, it comes out about the same.

[Bluesv]

ok, plus cheaper shipping, so hes better off buying from the other place ,and now I know where to shop for tires in Canada, cool