GI: Coming soon! Manual Boost control w/ creep and wastegate control

[TurfBurn]

I'm working on approved merchant member status.. but i have a new manual boost controller coming up for sale. I'm working right now finalizing the MBC, but it is installed on an MSP right now and the car is holding very steady at 9 psi with some minor spikes to 10 psi under certain conditions. Otherwise works absolutely fabulous.

I will also be developing over the next week some add ons to make it so you can improve spool up time by holding the wastegate shut just like an EBC would do. EDIT: Due to some improved components, price will be $49 plus shipping. Shipping costs were higher/more variable than expected.


These units are much nicer than the other MBC's you'll see out there. They have clean locking knobs.. no set nut or set screw to worry about coming loose. They also will have mounting brackets, and all the hardware and tubing will come included. Not to mention customer support!

Our goal is to provide a superior product to the other MBC's out there, and do it for less! This will be a great alternative for you if you are still waiting for an MBC from somebody else, or are starting to look!

If you have questions or anything else feel free to post or pm me...

in the meantime... here are some pics of the test unit installation.

Thanks!

Steve

EDIT: Updated pictures coming soon!

[thunder]

Sounds promising... :)

[Got_boost02]

looks like the Greddy MBC, still cool though

[TurfBurn]

Interesting..

http://www.overboost.com/obs/product.asp?pid=31025&cat_id=13&cat_name=Boost%20Controllers%20(manual)&sc_id=52&sc_name=

I'm a bit cheaper ;) LOL.. but I'm sure there are a few differences...

[CONEH8R]

Dirty ass engine bay... LOL...

I can do my best to answer questions as well. Steve is the main brains with the degree, I'm the computer geek. And we're testing on my car.

[chillinmcmillan]

Looks good

[hwydemon]

Quick Questions. Does this make a Nasty Hiss out of the Exhaust. Because if ti does I want it.

[TurfBurn]

no it doesn't and can't change the exhaust tone. I believe you do get a mild tone from the air flowing through the relief valving on the control valve... but not anything super significant.

[Demonic-Speed]

I would be willing to try it....I like the looks of it...HOw much you going to be selling it for?

[03MSP]

Sounds good, I'd be interested.

[TurfBurn]

well the one the MBC that you see up there will be 49 plus shipping.. I'm working on some higher quality ones (the first one is good.. but i"m looking at cast metal instead of molded plastic)... I'm getting them in tomorrow and will run some tests... So that's the MBC...

The wastegate control... I'm getting parts to build the first one of those tomorrow... and depending on how that goes will determine the cost on that....

But I'll keep you in mind for trials. I'll cut the cost in half or better for anyone that is willing to run an initial trial. I'll probably want to run about 2 trials with people... So one or two more installs... then I'll start sale on them...

Edit: price adjustment

[Demonic-Speed]

OK stupid question, but what does the wastegate control do? and don't say control the waste gate;)

[03MSP]

OK stupid question, but what does the wastegate control do? and don't say control the waste gate;)
I think that is what helps keep the boost steady and controls boost creep(which we have the opposite of) and boost drop off (which we have :) )

[TurfBurn]

OK stupid question, but what does the wastegate control do? and don't say control the waste gate;)
I typed up a long response to this about an hour ago.. and now I look and it isn't on the forum.. hm... I'll respond again in a while.. I have some work to do at work (go figure!) before I have a chance to type again....

Get right back to you!

Thanks,

Steve

[TurfBurn]

OK stupid question, but what does the wastegate control do? and don't say control the waste gate;)
Uh... it controls the wastegate! (cheers)

Actually though... it's a feature that is normally only on electronic boost controllers. What happens with this feature is that the wastegate is not opened until a set psi, so say you set it to 5 psi. The wastegate will not open at all until around 5 psi, and then will be fully open by 7 psi (in the case of a stock msp running just the wastegate controller). Without the controller the wastegate cracks open at 1 psi, more by 2, more by 3.. etc all the way to fully open at 7 psi. By keeping it closed to 5 psi you get a much faster boost response.

Modifying that device slightly I can reverse things a little bit and by adding the modified one in to the system in a slightly different manner you can also provide creep protection and preven the boost from creeping up past the set psi. Obviously the system can only at through the actuator on the wastegate, so the system will be limited by the behavior of the turbo system itself to some extent and can't fix problems inherent in the system, like the fall off.. can't really do too much about that unless the root cause is the behavior of the actuator.

Also, I have a Profec Spec-II on my vehicle and that thing will creep HORRENDOUSLY (8 psi of creep happens all the time and only stops because the standalone cuts the engine). Using the little creep protection mechanism I'm going to make will fix this and help anyone who already has that EBC, or any other EBC that is creeping.

Hope that helps answer the questions!

Thanks guys,

Steve

[CONEH8R]

Thus far, there hasn't been any issues with the boost creeping. I'm spiking at 10 psi max (we have it set at 9psi). It's hot and humid as hell today, stock IC doesn't like it. But overall the MBC does a very good job of keeping the boost regulated to where we set it. Like Steve said we have a few more things to play with this week, to try and get the control a bit better.

[Demonic-Speed]

Sweet...Thanks for the info, and I can not wait to get one...

[thunder]

Me too! You've got a future customer, hurry up!! - just kiddin' :)

[Glowmunkey]

Hmmm, interesting...

[irr5302]

well the one the MBC that you see up there will be shipped to your door for 50-53... I'm working on some higher quality ones (the first one is good.. but i"m looking at cast metal instead of molded plastic)... I'm getting them in tomorrow and will run some tests... So that's the MBC...

The wastegate control... I'm getting parts to build the first one of those tomorrow... and depending on how that goes will determine the cost on that....

But I'll keep you in mind for trials. I'll cut the cost in half or better for anyone that is willing to run an initial trial. I'll probably want to run about 2 trials with people... So one or two more installs... then I'll start sale on them...

I love this site


Im interested in the wastegatecontrol

Pics
and price

[irr5302]

Uh... it controls the wastegate! (cheers)

Actually though... it's a feature that is normally only on electronic boost controllers. What happens with this feature is that the wastegate is not opened until a set psi, so say you set it to 5 psi. The wastegate will not open at all until around 5 psi, and then will be fully open by 7 psi (in the case of a stock msp running just the wastegate controller). Without the controller the wastegate cracks open at 1 psi, more by 2, more by 3.. etc all the way to fully open at 7 psi. By keeping it closed to 5 psi you get a much faster boost response.

Modifying that device slightly I can reverse things a little bit and by adding the modified one in to the system in a slightly different manner you can also provide creep protection and preven the boost from creeping up past the set psi. Obviously the system can only at through the actuator on the wastegate, so the system will be limited by the behavior of the turbo system itself to some extent and can't fix problems inherent in the system, like the fall off.. can't really do too much about that unless the root cause is the behavior of the actuator.

Also, I have a Profec Spec-II on my vehicle and that thing will creep HORRENDOUSLY (8 psi of creep happens all the time and only stops because the standalone cuts the engine). Using the little creep protection mechanism I'm going to make will fix this and help anyone who already has that EBC, or any other EBC that is creeping.

Hope that helps answer the questions!

Thanks guys,

Steve

My car have a blitz ebc and the boost creep is horrible this solve my overboost problem 13psi spike

[TurfBurn]

is spike or creep the biggest problem you are having irr5302? Either way I think the unit should work for your application. Let me know what psi you are running as your standard boost... also if you are running a high/low option or not. As that affects things a little bit. But I'll work on it this week yet as much as I can and get back to you. I just need to know your standard boost level and how many psi over the spikes typically are.

Also an additional update... one of my suppliers had to ship from an alternate location the most important parts I ordered in (figures) so I didn't get the stuff I was supposed to tonight. Hopefully that stuff will be in tomorrow and I'm hoping to get some more testing done. Busy weekend for me as it's my birthday!! :) So I may not get as much done on the projects as I want... but my goal is to be 100% ready to go by Wednesday... but I won't promise what I can't guarantee!

Thanks!

Steve

[TurfBurn]

well we tested the higher quality MBC structure tonight. FAR better than the one we were testing previously. Even more stable than the last one, and a MUCH more precise adjustment. You can easily adjust in half psi increments to get just what you want for boost.

In additional exciting news from tonight... we got the wastegate control installed and tested. WOW what a difference. Easily cut the spool up time in half. Hits 9 psi nearly instantly. Gotta love that little turbo when controlled properly! The best part was that it did not affect the stability of the peak boost, or create any spikes either. Adjustment isn't the easiest... but my "secret" method to set it initially ended up being the perfect setting and we didn't need to play with it past that!

[Glowmunkey]

well we tested the higher quality MBC structure tonight. FAR better than the one we were testing previously. Even more stable than the last one, and a MUCH more precise adjustment. You can easily adjust in half psi increments to get just what you want for boost.


In additional exciting news from tonight... we got the wastegate control installed and tested. WOW what a difference. Easily cut the spool up time in half. Hits 9 psi nearly instantly. Gotta love that little turbo when controlled properly! The best part was that it did not affect the stability of the peak boost, or create any spikes either. Adjustment isn't the easiest... but my "secret" method to set it initially ended up being the perfect setting and we didn't need to play with it past that!
Now you have my attention.

[TurfBurn]

Now you have my attention.
Good! I'm glad! It is something new and unique, that I don't think anyone else offers yet... and the components of the kits will all be of some of the best quality... so we are working hard to do our best to bring something good. Hopefully we'll hit full availability early next week.

We are going to use a slightly more controlled ordering system to make life easy on us. Depending on lead times on some of my parts, we will basically take orders through Tuesday night... if you don't get your order in by 6 a.m. on Wednesday it will wait until the next week essentially.... then we will build our orders and get them out the door by Friday or earlier if we can. That way you will have it sometime the next week. There won't be a waiting game, and since there are two of us we shouldn't have too much trouble keeping up... Customer satisfaction will be a top priority and we will provide as much support as possible!

[TurfBurn]

I had to make a small adjustment to the prices I posted. Some of the costs of the improved components were higher than we expected, and shipping turned out to suck way more than my original estimates (stupid UPS!)... Sales should start next week!

[Msp-titanium]

i have a boost controler similar than your i do the
instalation i put the mbc between the tee and the
wastegate and my boost spike to 10psi and its set to 7psi
on your picture you have a different set-up do you
can explain me or Pm tanks! (help)

[Glowmunkey]

Get this thing set, test as thoroughly as possible... once I feel confident, I'll take both. If it does what you say, it's more than worth the measly price.

[TurfBurn]

i have a boost controler similar than your i do the
instalation i put the mbc between the tee and the
wastegate and my boost spike to 10psi and its set to 7psi
on your picture you have a different set-up do you
can explain me or Pm tanks! (help)-

We put it up right where the boost control line comes out of the manifold and starts to head down to the turbo. That way the entire control line system is set evenly and you don't have to worry about the bypass valve and other parts getting away from the system. If your MBC is just between the junction and the wastegate it isn't altering the other line and that may be the source of your spike...

See... we test this stuff! :)

ConeH8r has been running with the latest revision of the MBC for a few days now... it's a very nice cast metal bodied MBC, not plastic like the other one. Much more robust and far more accurate. It will allow a maximum boost increase of a little over 10 psi... so you'd be able to run about 17 psi maximum with that model. I figure that will be good enough for most people. If you think you'll need more you just have to let me know and I have some options to give you as much as 31 psi...

Hope that all helps!

Thanks,

Steve

[TurfBurn]

Get this thing set, test as thoroughly as possible... once I feel confident, I'll take both. If it does what you say, it's more than worth the measly price.
We are doing everything we can to test as thoroughly as we can. I hate releasing something that wouldn't be 100% of what it should be. Unfortunately, that requires a lot of test cars to cover variability. Thankfully, we have it rather dialed in on our first vehicle. I also have had several people who are willing to be testers as well, and that is wonderful too! The actual cost of the components for me is rather expensive, I'm several hundred in the hole right now with just 2-3 systems on hand... so I'm doing everything I can. Building something new is never cheap!

[CONEH8R]

i have a boost controler similar than your i do the
instalation i put the mbc between the tee and the
wastegate and my boost spike to 10psi and its set to 7psi
on your picture you have a different set-up do you
can explain me or Pm tanks! (help)

Stock boost is 6.5 on most of the MSP. So you are basically running stock boost with a bit of a spike. Which probably doesn't get you the results you want

Ideally you want to limit the spike as much as possible and be able to hold a solid boost level that you are set at. That is what we're doing with our MBC. I'm set at 9psi and it holds at 9psi without spikes.

[Miques]

Man, I am so interested in that wastegate controller. I need to see it.

[TurfBurn]

well we are still doing some more testing. I sent another set of controllers off to be tested with a different car. We got some odd behavior off the bat, but we are working on it to iron out what went on with that particular case. Things are coming along though.

We are also trying to double check right now how the wastegate control is affecting our boost levels and characteristics. Making sure it effects everything as we think it does and doesn't have any adverse effects.

[Msp-titanium]

i live in canada more precisely in quebec, montreal
my stock boost is 5psi-5.5psi. i note U.S. car have higher boost
maybe temperature?your mbc is connect on the stock vacum line?
you don't have 2nd line for the bpv.
I'm gonna try that thank you !!!

[Msp-titanium]

Hey thank you it's work (burnout) (rockon)

[TurfBurn]

Hey thank you it's work (burnout) (rockon)
Glad to hear it! :)

Because we got some mis-behaving from one of the units this weekend we are keeping at the testing. I may sell a couple this week though as a partial test of how it goes in the hand of others. So if you are interested let me know and I'll work things out with you directly via pm.

Thanks!

[Aaron]

Turf burn got any updates? I am interested but I have a question. I am all stock and runnning an autometer boost gauge at stock levels. I spike to 7 and fall to 5.5-6psi when getting into the upper RPM range 5k plus. Should I try to fix my spiking problem before addin a MBC or will the MBC help this problem.

[TurfBurn]

We could try to see if the MBC setup works on yours and improves anything or just behaves the same... there isnt' much you are going to be able to do about the spiking problem.. but we have seen that show up as well on the MBC in our testing... the spike doesn't really cross 1 or 2 psi more... and we do see the slight boost fall as well in the high rpm's. That is something that the wastegate control and the spike contoller will hopefully help. We are working on it! :)

[CONEH8R]

Turf burn got any updates? I am interested but I have a question. I am all stock and runnning an autometer boost gauge at stock levels. I spike to 7 and fall to 5.5-6psi when getting into the upper RPM range 5k plus. Should I try to fix my spiking problem before addin a MBC or will the MBC help this problem.

That is pretty much what I was running/spiking stock as well. I've ran 9psi and 10psi, max spike i ever saw period was 12psi@10psi, and I can only get those spikes in 4th & 5th gear. I do not spike as much with our MBC as I did stock.

We're working on getting rid of even the rare spikes. Very soon.

[Aaron]

Thanks Fellas,

I am very interested to hear the results of you findings.

Thanks

[T254Power]

I'm working on approved merchang member status.. but i have a new manual boost controller coming up for sale. I'm working right now finalizing the MBC, but it is installed on an MSP right now and the car is holding very steady at 9 psi with some minor spikes to 10 psi under certain conditions. Otherwise works absolutely fabulous.

I will also be developing over the next week some add ons to make it so you can improve spool up time by holding the wastegate shut just like an EBC would do. EDIT: Due to some improved components, price will be $49 plus shipping. Shipping costs were higher/more variable than expected.


These units are much nicer than the other MBC's you'll see out there. They have clean locking knobs.. no set nut or set screw to worry about coming loose. They also will have mounting brackets, and all the hardware and tubing will come included. Not to mention customer support!

Our goal is to provide a superior product to the other MBC's out there, and do it for less! This will be a great alternative for you if you are still waiting for an MBC from somebody else, or are starting to look!

If you have questions or anything else feel free to post or pm me...

in the meantime... here are some pics of the test unit installation.

Thanks!

Steve
Hey man Ive been to your website and really want that manual boost controler and waste gate controler but How do I order it (boom01)

[dominoy2k1]

you have to private message him. also cant wait to get mine.

[TurfBurn]

yep... private message me, or post here.. or FINALLY... we have sales@nsnmotorsports.com

Domino and SMP3000 will be the first to have the MBC's and I'm going to make sure that they are up and running without any issues and then we'll be able to sell the MBC's without waiting any.

We are making some minor machining modifications to the wastegate controller to make it perform a little better and then that will be ready to go. I have one person who is receiving a creep protection setup... so he'll be the first to test it and hopefully we'll have positive results there as well. I'm pretty confident!

We have a LOT of stuff in the pipeline too! But we finish each thing and then move to the next so we don't get too swamped. One of the really exciting things that is in the line is that I have located a possible vendor for me to be able to make any custom sheet metal product you might want. Heat shields like in my avatar, custom stainless steel gauge plates, possibly some plastic gaskets... lots of cool stuff! :)

[TurfBurn]

Just an update for all of you. SMP and Domino will have controllers before the end of the week. As long as their installs go smoothly and they are off and running we'll be set to go. I don't forsee any problems at this point! If you are interested in a controller already just email me at sales@nsnmotorsports.com and I'll add you to the list. Then sometime next week I'll ship out controllers for you and you'll be boosting up! It makes such a massive difference on the MSP. We moved it from 7 psi to 9-10 psi and it is a huge difference!

Thanks!

Steve
www.nsnmotorsports.com (http://www.nsnmotorsports.com)

[Aaron]

come on I want to hear some reviews. I am needing a mbc but do not know which one to get. Waiting for some review of this product.

[TurfBurn]

LOL... well it's pretty new. The first one ever shipped on Thursday of last week. I'm sure once Domino and I work through his install (which could happen tonight! I'm excited as he is I'm sure) then we'll know the story. Hopefully all goes well, then everyone can get in on these things! We'll be doing everything we can to deal with any issues that come up and any modifications that need to be made. I'll work with any and all of you to make your install as straightforward and simple as possible.

Thanks!

Steve
www.nsnmotorsports.com (http://www.nsnmotorsports.com)

[TurfBurn]

Looks like we'll be set to go to take orders on 8/12/04. If you are interested email me at sales@nsnmotorsports.com and I'll get back to you from there with more information as to what you need to do and shipping and so forth! You can also check out the website at www.nsnmotorsports.com (http://www.nsnmotorsports.com) for details as well!

The wastegate controllers are not completely ready to go yet, still doing some final testing. But we hope to have those officially up to par in the next 1-2 weeks!

Thanks much guys!

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[Hypnotized]

Bump for updates

[TurfBurn]

The MBC's have done well in both SMP3000 and Domino's cars and haven't shown any issue whatesoever. The MBC's are open sale right now. I just sold the last one I had in stock though tonight. So I'll probably build another batch shortly if I get a few orders that come in. Having stock kind of costs a lot of money... but I will do so to make sure turnaround time is good for you guys!

The wastegate controller is functional and we alleviated some of the problems in it. However, it's performance is a little subpar from where I want it to be (doesn't enhance wastegate performance as much as I like.. does it's job, but not as well as it could!). So I'm redesigning some parts of it and sourcing some different components right now to get that in better shape. I'll know how that is looking by this coming weekend.

The creep elimination units work perfectly in our testing, and are available for anyone that needs them!

We have a few more projects in the pipeline after the wastegate controller. Should be some great stuff for you guys... brake ducting, MAF signal modifier, O2 simulator/modifier, hopefully a knock indicator at some point.. and a few other things... I put as much free time into this as I have! So we are working hard.

If you are interested in purchasing an MBC or have interest in any of the other products of the future feel free to email us at sales@nsnmotorsports.com. We are also updating the website regularily now and nearly have it complete. It includes all our current and soon to arrive products.

Thanks!

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[dominoy2k1]

ohh knock detector? ohh imma have to start saving some money.

[TurfBurn]

ohh knock detector? ohh imma have to start saving some money.
It won't be real expensive (especially if I can figure out board etching to a high enough quality level). But will largely be a reference type gauge. I'll test to see how effective it will or won't be... but we'll see! :)

[rocketspeed]

Mine should be here tomorrow and probably will be installed this weekend, I will post a review. I'm going to be running pretty modest boost levels, may jack it up later if I add proper supporting mods.

[TurfBurn]

I don't forsee any problems with any MBC at any point as they have really been amazingly consistent and fantastic in operation. But if you or anyone else ever has any problem I'm definitely there to help very quickly and will do whatever it takes to make sure you are happy!

Domino... You'll be the first to receive the wastegate controller once the thing is up to my standards!

[rocketspeed]

[QUOTE=TurfBurn]will do whatever it takes to make sure you are happy!

QUOTE]

I'd be happiest if you came over and washed my car.(lol2)

[TurfBurn]

If you were near madison, WI I would consider it! :) Especially if it in any way helped me promote and sell anything :) And besides with my engine blown and the car in the garage torn apart and me driving my beat up blazer... I don't have anything worth spending the hours I once did to wash!

[rocketspeed]

[QUOTE=TurfBurn]with my engine blown[QUOTE]

And I bought a boost controller from you?!(nervous)

[TurfBurn]

LOL :)

My car was Terry (Spool Innovative Turbo Systems)'s test car. It saw over 16 psi on stock internals, detonation, random testing etc... it also blew during a high speed race where I had been exceding 100 mph regularily for 4 15 minute stints that day alone. So the engine saw plenty to say the least! It was time for it to go basically. The motor also didn't blow because of a problem or a mistake. The rod in cylinder number 4 simply gave up and the motor went.

Now I'm building a new motor that will be ready for the spring. A full forged, port and polish it all (head, intake, whatever else I think of/can be done), valve job, standalone, multi-fuel rail engine. Designed pretty much to give me good reliable power for all my racing!

[MoJoeTCM]

looks like my turbonetics i am going to put in this weekend

[TurfBurn]

looks like my turbonetics i am going to put in this weekendSome of the other controllers out there are similar and use the same sort of pressure regulator. I believe they are more expensive in a lot of cases. And I also went to GREAT lengths to spec out the MBC to get it's performance to be what our's is. There are a lot of pressure ranges, CFM capabilities, and types of these regulators out there. But we spent a lot of time and money testing different ones until we got one particular type out of them all that really works exceptionally well in comparison to all the others that we tested. I can't speak as to what turbonetics did or didn't do. But I can say ours works great, and as we go along more and more people should be chiming in to that effect as well! Not to mention our fast shipping, included bracket, hose, ties, and instructions and so forth. :D

If you have any problems with your turbonetics or have questions, I am happy to help.

Enjoy the boost!

Steve

[MoJoeTCM]

steve what do you recommend so far as boost settings go, for the mazdaspeed? I have injen CAI, and that is pretty much it. I am waiting for these larger companies like hi boost to create a whole turbo kit upgrade instead of doing piece by piece. Any advice?

[TurfBurn]

A recommendation is hard to give as the definition of safe is a floating thing.

Some people might think 16 psi is a safe pressure to run. I don't think it is.

I know a lot of people have been running 9-10 psi without issues, and consider it safe, which it could be. But any time you increase your boost pressure you are eliminating "safety" in the overall system.

What boost you want to run is really up to your discretion! The best thing to do is talk to people on the forums and read some of the threads (there is one I remember seeing called "safest psi to run on a MSP") to see what you think. You may only want to add 1 psi, you may decide 4 more is the way to go. It's all up to you and how your individual car does. Some of the cars run a little leaner and thus wouldn't be as safe, and some run richer.

It's a hard question to answer! I guess read around and choose what you think is best! Just realize that any increase in boost on a car that is programmed and designed for one level of boost is "unsafe"

Sorry to not answer as directly as you may have hoped!

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[TurfBurn]

here is a discussion on the forum that might help you

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63336

[rocketspeed]

Got mine, seems like a high quality unit. Deciding what supporting mods are required prior to installation. Worried that I might see some pinging in 5th at WOT if I up boost a little.

[Aaron]

Well I finally installed the NSN MBC. WOW!!! what an excellent product. easy easy easy installation. I am all stock running 10.psi of boost and it makes a very noticeable difference. MBC spikes to 10.5 and holds 10psi and then eventually falls closer to redline. The lose of boost towards redline is more than likely to due to the plastic stock pipes I have. I am very pleased with this product. If you are looking for a excellent MBC at a great price and easy installation then NSN has the parts for you.

Thanks NSN Motorsports for my MBC.


Aaron

[TurfBurn]

Thanks for the great feedback! Very glad that you are happy with the product.

We have seen the boost falloff in testing as well, and it seems to occur regardless of the MBC settings, so the best understanding we have is that it is likely part of the turbo system in the MSP. I don't believe that anyone who has installed the MBC on an MP3 with a custom turbo has seen that effect which would further reinforce the theory!

Glad to hear from everyone who has been using the MBC and we are always happy to do our best to make sure you have just what you want.

Thanks guys!

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[Yay-Boost]

If you change the stock twin cats (no cats or single hi-flow) the falling boost level will go away.

[Aaron]

I plan on elimination my cat-pipe just have to stop at a muffler shop to see how much or see if DSM is ever gonna have the cat delete pipe availiable.

[TurfBurn]

I put in a magnaflow high flow cat on my vehicle... they cost about 60-80 bucks from husker performance exhaust.

[Aaron]

steve,

does that high flow pass emission if they apply to you? Did it make a difference?

Thanks,

Aaron

[Stormtrooper77]

TurfBurn. I just visited the site. Looks like you have and will have some great products. I think I may be visiting again soon.

[TurfBurn]

TurfBurn. I just visited the site. Looks like you have and will have some great products. I think I may be visiting again soon.
Thanks! If there is anything you'd like to see on the list of things let us know as we will be adding and developing continuously!

[TurfBurn]

steve,

does that high flow pass emission if they apply to you? Did it make a difference?

Thanks,

Aaron
I'm not sure if it would or not. It's a pretty pathetic catalytic converter when you hold it and compare it to the other cat. It's about 1/4 of the size. There is an off chance you'd pass emissions, but I'm not sure. I put it on my car as it had no cats at all and I did not want to deal with getting pulled over and the fines associated with having 0 cats. We don't have emissions testing so that makes life a bit easier for me, but means I don't have useful information for you!

Later.

Steve

[ArrestYellowMSP]

What's the difference between the Creep Eliminator and the Manual Spool Controller. Just curious, sounds like the same thing to me. And do you have a pic of your boost controller by chance?

[TurfBurn]

What's the difference between the Creep Eliminator and the Manual Spool Controller. Just curious, sounds like the same thing to me. And do you have a pic of your boost controller by chance?
They are different valves. One allows bleed through that increases progressively and the other is an on/off sort of thing. Also the fittings and hoses that are included in the kits as well as the instructions ;) are a good bit different.

I'll get pics of the boost controller up soon. I'll try to remember to do that tonight for you.

Thanks!

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[TurfBurn]

Here is a picture of the MBC kit. I don't have pics of the install right now as the prototype is still installed on the test car. It's nowhere near as nice and clean and so forth. So hope this helps for now!

Thanks,

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[ArrestYellowMSP]

Very nice, easy to change. Awesome, thanks for the quick response! So which one is faster, the creep eliminator or the manual spool controller?

[TurfBurn]

Very nice, easy to change. Awesome, thanks for the quick response! So which one is faster, the creep eliminator or the manual spool controller?
Not grasping you 100% on this one... stupid internet :)

The wastegate controller and the creep protector are both different valves and they also get put into the vacuum lines in slightly different configurations... so there is that set of differences.

As far as which is faster is probably the big thing I'm not following you on. We have the creep eliminator ready and all that really does is eliminate any overboosting on system that already do it as long as it is not some inherent issue in the turbo system. In that case it might mediate it to some extent but will not be able to cure the issue.

The spool controller is in process and we are hoping to have ready before the end of next week, but no promises as we were close once before until we hit problems and had to redesing the entire thing.

If you mean faster as far as spool up time.. the creep protector will not affect spool up time in any way. And it does require that you have an MBC or EBC already installed (ours or anyone elses).

Hope that answers the questions you were after!

Thanks,

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[casper]

You need to make a dual stage boost controller... or at least one for me. :)

[TurfBurn]

There is a guy on the forums who does sell dual stage controllers. He might be able to help you out! In the future we may get to building one, but a lot of other projects are on the slate beforehand! :)

[ArrestYellowMSP]

Ok I got it now, yeah I was wanting a spool controller since the standard Garrett wastegate actuators slowly build the boost rather than letting it get to 6psi or whatever and then venting exhaust. So that's the one I want! Sweet, can't wait to get one of these.

[TurfBurn]

Quick update for you guys.... I'm sending out one of the prototype wastegate controllers this week to have it tested on another car. Our testing shows this version seems to work pretty good, so I want to verify it on someone elses car. I'll let you know what I find out when I hear back!

Thanks,

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[Aaron]

sweet!!!

[TooleBox]

where are the pics of this thing?

[TurfBurn]

we took a bunch but the ended up blurry and crappy. My brother is doing more tomorrow supposedly. He has been behind on web and picture updates. I handle all the building and technical stuff... but soon. I'll get on his case about it. Check the website tomorrow evening/afternoon and hopefully they'll be on the products page finally.

Thanks for the patience though!

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[TooleBox]

if it's similar to the one in the greddy pic... just curious as to what you are using? the greddy is very similar to the turbonetics (only the greddy is billet)... that style/design is identical to the preassure controller that comes on a dewalt air compressor.

if that is your starting point... im curious as to what modifications have been made to the unit to make it more stable?

I used the turbonetics (rebadged dewalt) and it was horrendous to set, and spiked like mad...

harder spring? bleeder hole?

Please do not take this as picking apart the product... the reason I am asking is because I have a greddy profec-b spec II and love it, but i have had issues with people bumping the unit w/ their knee while getting out of my car after usin it to run to the store... next thing i know i get in and i hit 15psi because i forgot to check my settings!

If this product is as you say and has the same wastegate controlling feature (i.e i allow my wastegate to start opening at 4psi while my boost level is set to 8psi) and it works well without having to bend over backwards to get it set right... I may sell off my profec and go with this in order to prevent this quasi-reoccurring "knee-bump boost increase"

-Toole

[TurfBurn]

if it's similar to the one in the greddy pic... just curious as to what you are using? the greddy is very similar to the turbonetics (only the greddy is billet)... that style/design is identical to the preassure controller that comes on a dewalt air compressor.

if that is your starting point... im curious as to what modifications have been made to the unit to make it more stable?

I used the turbonetics (rebadged dewalt) and it was horrendous to set, and spiked like mad...

harder spring? bleeder hole?

Please do not take this as picking apart the product... the reason I am asking is because I have a greddy profec-b spec II and love it, but i have had issues with people bumping the unit w/ their knee while getting out of my car after usin it to run to the store... next thing i know i get in and i hit 15psi because i forgot to check my settings!

If this product is as you say and has the same wastegate controlling feature (i.e i allow my wastegate to start opening at 4psi while my boost level is set to 8psi) and it works well without having to bend over backwards to get it set right... I may sell off my profec and go with this in order to prevent this quasi-reoccurring "knee-bump boost increase"

-TooleIt is very similar to the stuff you mention above. The big "difference" is that the cfm throughput, the self-relieving settings of the nature of the valve, and the pressure range of the regulator were very carefully selected because we found all of the above problems in our other tests with other regulators and so forth. We do not physically modify the component other than appearance things, checking it over, and installing all the necessary plugs and fittings. You could in theory find this regulator and do the same thing yourself but we priced it low enough that you'd save about 6 bucks doing it yourself unless you have just the right sources and get just the right parts. :) Put it this way, we've sold 10 of them, and we still are negative on our investment.

I know that the greddy and the turbonetics and so forth are functionally identical, but I don't believe they hold the boost to a certain pressure before passing it, and neither does ours. When we were using of the regulators that is probaly similar to the turbonetics one we saw a lot of problems with spiking, difficulty to set and so forth... it was horrible! Basically these regulators are designed to create a pressure differential. If you use an air compressor you can understand this a little easier. If you have anything above 50 psi that you set the regulator to, you still only get 50 psi out of the hose. Anything under 50 psi and you get whatever that tank pressure is. If the regulator/ MBC held the boost and was used this way you'd get bad things. It's confusing to think about, but imagine if you got all the air through until 4 psi (or even worse... none!) and the regulator was set at 4 psi... then what would happen would be that no matter how high things got boost wise the wastegate would only see 4 psi! EEK! So the turbo would produce as much boost as possible at that wastegate opening... it could be 8 psi it could be 30 psi! Bad no matter what. So the MBC/regulator is used a little different and adjusted in reverse and instead of holding the boost lets it all through but trims off a little when it starts to get close to the setting on the MBC. So say you were setting your msp to 8 psi from 6 psi stock. The wastegate will get all the pressure up until say around 4 psi. Then it gets trimmed a little bit until the boost pressure reaches 8 psi and then the wastegate sees 6 psi and the boost is held. What happens is the regulator generates a pressure differential.

To some small extent you are closing an orifice and will limit boost flow and will improve your spool up time just with that controller. SMP3000 noticed a marked difference when he installed our MBC. Much improved spool up time. However because of the nature of the component it can't completely improve the spool time. That's why we have been working on a secondary valve. The secondary valve (aka wastegate controller) will work totally different. It will attempt to remain completely closed until a certain psi, at which point it cracks open and allows pressure to start to build on the other side of it. By doing that you can effectively limit when the wastegate will open. Some cheap wastegate controllers work this way, but it leads to spiking and so forth (think about what happens if you are trying to hold 6 psi for boost but the valve doesn't open until 5 psi... you will overshoot and get a spike. Also the spring and ball can move and so forth and you'll change the pressure drop and lose consistency). Combining the valve with the regulator should give you the best possible overall manual controller performance you can get!

Let me know if I can answer anything else,

Thanks!

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[TurfBurn]

And alternative option we could provide for you toolebox that could solve your problem is the creep eliminator. It can also be used as a bit of a fail safe for maximum boost for things like that. You can install it and set it up so that it allows what you want for a maximum and then if the ebc ever tries to go above it the manual valve will actually override that and you won't get overboosting...

[TooleBox]

yeah... all the theories of boost control are definately there... you have done some good research! :)

my EBC has a limiter, but the way i have it set is to only dump 3% off my set valve control... so if i hit 9psi, it'll dump the valve down a bit...

could you explain how your creep controller works? will it work in conjunction with my profec b?

the issue w/ the profec's warning/limiter is this...

if i set the limiter at 8.5psi, it will not function until 9psi... that isnt an issue as i learned quickly that my warning/limiter was functioning .5psi behind schedule... so setting it to limit and maintain the boost i want was easily acheived...

most people will set their limiter to dump 100% at limiter... but this is no good as you have this rolling wave of boost from 5psi-whatever you are spiking to... up, dump, up, dump, up, dump (you get the picture)

if i could utilize your creep controller to dump at say 9.5psi... i could maintain my greddy settings while using yours as a failsafe.

what exactly did you utilize as a creep controller? I have been tossing aroun d some ideas on doing a secondary boost source going to the wastegate (as well as my boost controller source t'd just before the wastegate...) then in that secondary boost source utilize a preassure switch that will upen at say 9.5psiwhich would bypass the boost controller and dump the wastegate... but that will be a real pain in the butt to get functioning properly and would also require me to intentionally overboost to test it... and I am not too keen on the idea of intentional overboosting past "safe" levels.

anyways, I appreciate any info on the creep control setup you can offer...

now into thread hijack mode

******hijack on******

have you guys considered maybe developing a small wastegate shim... lets say 1/8-3/16" thick that could wedge the wastegate out a bit causing a couple pounds more resistence causing the wastegate to fully dump at say 8psi all day long?

this could be a great modification for those who want to mildly up their boost while appearing "stock" for those who are worried about warranty (as well as those who dont want to monkey around with adjusting boost controllers)

just an idea :)

******hijack off******

[TurfBurn]

yeah... all the theories of boost control are definately there... you have done some good research! :)

my EBC has a limiter, but the way i have it set is to only dump 3% off my set valve control... so if i hit 9psi, it'll dump the valve down a bit...

could you explain how your creep controller works? will it work in conjunction with my profec b?

the issue w/ the profec's warning/limiter is this...

if i set the limiter at 8.5psi, it will not function until 9psi... that isnt an issue as i learned quickly that my warning/limiter was functioning .5psi behind schedule... so setting it to limit and maintain the boost i want was easily acheived...

most people will set their limiter to dump 100% at limiter... but this is no good as you have this rolling wave of boost from 5psi-whatever you are spiking to... up, dump, up, dump, up, dump (you get the picture)

if i could utilize your creep controller to dump at say 9.5psi... i could maintain my greddy settings while using yours as a failsafe.

what exactly did you utilize as a creep controller? I have been tossing aroun d some ideas on doing a secondary boost source going to the wastegate (as well as my boost controller source t'd just before the wastegate...) then in that secondary boost source utilize a preassure switch that will upen at say 9.5psiwhich would bypass the boost controller and dump the wastegate... but that will be a real pain in the butt to get functioning properly and would also require me to intentionally overboost to test it... and I am not too keen on the idea of intentional overboosting past "safe" levels.

anyways, I appreciate any info on the creep control setup you can offer...

now into thread hijack mode

******hijack on******

have you guys considered maybe developing a small wastegate shim... lets say 1/8-3/16" thick that could wedge the wastegate out a bit causing a couple pounds more resistence causing the wastegate to fully dump at say 8psi all day long?

this could be a great modification for those who want to mildly up their boost while appearing "stock" for those who are worried about warranty (as well as those who dont want to monkey around with adjusting boost controllers)

just an idea :)

******hijack off******Well your "hijack" is actually very welcome because those kinds of ideas are the things that we want to get from people and develop for you. Also as an added incentive we'll give whoever comes up with the idea at least that idea for free, and probably something else as we can afford. (Being negative in the dollars makes that a little harder right now! LOL).

Working backwards through your post....

You have the theory right on how to do the creep eliminator. Basically it is in parallel with the boost controller and allows a secondary path for the pressure to "travel" around the controller. By using an inline valve that will open somewhat progressively near the pressure limit you want you can dampen the system response and eliminate the overboost. It is actually easy and safe to set when done properly without requiring overboost. You actually start out where it lets so much air past so early that the EBC can't hit high levels, and rather gets pulled down to your "stock" level. Then you adjust it out until the you just hit the EBC controlled boost level. You can at your risk go slightly past that if you have a good feel for it, otherwise leave it right at that point and you should never see an overboost. All that is happening at that point that is "negative" is your spool response at the very top may be slightly limited. Our testing showed it was negligible and not of concern.

You just have to find the right kind of valve and right fittings and the like. Then you are all set to go.

I have a Profec and tried setting the controls similar to what you did as well as a dozen other things.. but the spec-II doesn't seem to do work and I'll overbosot by a good 7 psi without a problem... part of why I made the creep eliminator!

Hope that helps!

Later,

Steve

[TooleBox]

ya know... i feel pretty stupid now... i just reread my post as well as your response... it sure does make a whole lot more sense to start low and work UP to desired boost instead of starting high... lol

chalk it up to a brainfart!

as for the wastegate shim... if you all can do one up to hold a strong 8psi... i'd be all over it(bowdown)

[TurfBurn]

Some final testing on the spool controller has been getting done this last week. Results sounded good so far. Spool up time was improved, and no other issues were encountered. I'd like to ship one or two this coming week to interested parties and see how they fare using the part as well. Then assuming that goes smoothly it'll be open season on the spool controllers. Sorry it has taken so long to get to this point and I greatly appreciate all your patience!

Thanks,

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[31R]

on your website you have listed a wastegate control, is this the same as the spool controller? I'm not to good with this stuff but it all sold me. I'm in the market for a MBC and i stumbled upon yours. It all sounds good and i will most likely purchase your items once they are all available. I will only need help on the adjustments. I plan on running 10 PSI at the most ever and i would not know how much to adjust the creep controller or the wastegate control. Thanks for your work.

[TurfBurn]

on your website you have listed a wastegate control, is this the same as the spool controller? I'm not to good with this stuff but it all sold me. I'm in the market for a MBC and i stumbled upon yours. It all sounds good and i will most likely purchase your items once they are all available. I will only need help on the adjustments. I plan on running 10 PSI at the most ever and i would not know how much to adjust the creep controller or the wastegate control. Thanks for your work.
The wastegate controller and the spool controller are the same thing, just different names for the same function. The MBC is available now, and the wastegate controller is very nearly available (it's ready, I just want to finish some last tests before I release it widely). The adjustments are very very easy as long as you take your time! But I would be there to answer any questions and help you out as need be!

When you are ready let me know and I'll get parts out to you in short fashion.

Thanks!

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[Slalom59]

From the first few infos you posted, your MBC seem to be installed near the header upstream of the signal split to the BPV. Is this correct ? If so, can you advise if it has some influence on the opening of the BPV. Mine seem to open under WOT at 5 to 6 psi (stock boost). Can you also post some pictures of the installation.

Thanks.

[TurfBurn]

Yes, on stock MSP's we install it up by the intake manifold upstream of the signal split to the BPV. This does then affect the behavior of the bypass valve. It ends up causing the entire system to act just as it does in stock form, but at a higher pressure level. Both the wastegate and the bypass believe they are at stock levels. Some people have reinstalled other brand MBC's this way and it has eliminated problems for them in several cases.

I won't be able to provide pictures of installation until early next week as I'll be out of town this weekend (but checking email and the forum as much as I can). After I get back into town I'll try and get some installation pictures available. Unless, one of my customers has pictures they want to post of their installation. Otherwise I'll get on it as soon as I can.

Thanks!

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[thunder]

Is there a particular advantage to have it installed up by the intake manifold ?

[TurfBurn]

yes, it seems to make it more consistent and accurate... it also helps modify the bypass valve behavior which seems to be beneficial as well.

[TurfBurn]

Well good news guys. I just need to let the last installation run a couple days to ensure that things remain consistent and then we will be good to go on the spool controller. StuttersC has had good results so far and mad props to him for being a massive help to me and trying these parts out for us! He saw a good improvement in spool up time, but I'll let him comment as he sees fit regarding how he felt about the product, and how much of a benefit there was or wasn't in each of the parts.

After we let things run for a few days in StuttersC's car then I'll be opening sales on the spool controller as well!

Thanks SO much to all of you for your patience and even bigger thanks to DominoY2k1, SMP3000, and StuttersC for the testing they've done for me! Also to anyone else I may have missed for any reason too :)

Thanks!

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[TurfBurn]

For those who haven't seen the kit components.. here is an ok picture of it:


http://www.nsnmotorsports.com/pictures/MBCkit.jpg

[Slalom59]

Message for TurfBurn

Can you have a look at following thread about a problem with your boost controller and comment.
Thanks
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82758

[TurfBurn]

Thanks for the heads up. I commented in that thread regarding the issue. That problem has now come up twice, and we are working to figure out what causes it. I lean toward an installation issue of some sort as we have 12 or better controllers out there and for us to have a failure rate of 2 out of 12 when the rest have been perfect seems very odd (I use to work in reliability, so I have an understanding of failure rates and failure modes). So something is up, and I need to get those controllers back to work on them and see what is going on. Either way we stand behind our product and are replacing the parts at no cost.

[TurfBurn]

Spool controllers and MBC's are all ready to go. We'll have stock in hand on Tuesday of both parts.

Thanks guys!

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[TurfBurn]

Have stock on all parts! :) Bump!

[TurfBurn]

Here is a pic of the spool controller... it's two of them..


Enjoy!

Steve
sales@nsnmotorsports.com

[TurfBurn]

Bump for interest and updates! :)

[Yay-Boost]

I have a dual stage setup (from 505zoom) and just wondering if I would need two of these or if one can be set and help both boost settings?

[TurfBurn]

I'm assuming you are referring to the spool controller... I'll have to talk to 505Zoom sometime to get an idea of how those controllers work and so forth... but if you have a single line going them at some point (which I assume you do... ) then you can get away with only one of the controllers..

hope that helps!

Steve