Cheap fix for stock IC pipes

[DSMConvert]

Not sure how many of you will find this thread useful, but I thought I'd post up the final solutions I had to solve the leaks cause by the stock plastic pipes. After pressure testing the system I found that the stock pipes do not hold over 10psi...now yes many of you are boosting up to 13psi and dont notice it, b/c it is a small leak...on mine it was 1-4psi per 10seconds...this equates to around a 10-20 hp loss. The main culprits where the connections to the TB and the turbo and the cheap ass hose clamps(these tend to loosen up when heated, and arent capable of holding much force as far as a tight seal). These were metal on platic connections, not very good for air tight seals. The fix I came across was a combination of rtv tape(new product at Autozone) and t-clamps(these are the bolt strap style, not the sissy worm style ones that come with the car, they will bend at anything over 60ft/lbs of force). I wrapped all the connections with the tape(2wraps on the ic connections, 3 on the metal connections) and let it set for a few minutes in the hot sun to seal...put oil over all the connections so that the pipes would slide over the taping(rtv tape is extremely grabby/rubbery) and used the t-bolt clamps to clamp down. I'd say just tighten them till untill you are unable to turn anymore using one hand on a regular socket wrench, the bolt wont strip, and ther are very few people strong enough to actually bend the pipes...depending on the size of the t-clamp you might have to cut a notch, like our stock clamps have, to get a firm seal. I now have no leaks due to IC piping, though the stock bpv also leaks at around 10-11psi...thought from what i've heard this is just me...hopefully this will help some of you out who arent running as well as you should be.

[Stormtrooper77]

How's that rtv tape going to come loose when you want to upgrade to hardpipes? What does a t-clamp look like? (I have an idea, but...)

[CustomMSP]

Does the car drive any different now?

[DSMConvert]

the rtv tape is almost exactly like a thick version of electrical tape. It only sticks to itself so it comes right off with a razor blade, and honestly it wouldnt cause any problems when installing hard pipes..the pipe would just slide over it like usual. As far as the difference...went from runninga 15.8(my leaks were a little worse than the avg.) to a mid to low 14....my a/fs also got slightly leaner due to less fuel being dumped for over counted air....def a noticable difference.

[CustomMSP]

nice.

[Professor MSP]

This is an excellent piece of research! I am impressed with your thoroughness and ingenuity. Keep up the good work. It is serious tuners such as yourself that make this board a valuable source of information. Thanks DSMConvert. (2thumbs)




Not sure how many of you will find this thread useful, but I thought I'd post up the final solutions I had to solve the leaks cause by the stock plastic pipes. After pressure testing the system I found that the stock pipes do not hold over 10psi...now yes many of you are boosting up to 13psi and dont notice it, b/c it is a small leak...on mine it was 1-4psi per 10seconds...this equates to around a 10-20 hp loss. The main culprits where the connections to the TB and the turbo and the cheap ass hose clamps(these tend to loosen up when heated, and arent capable of holding much force as far as a tight seal). These were metal on platic connections, not very good for air tight seals. The fix I came across was a combination of rtv tape(new product at Autozone) and t-clamps(these are the bolt strap style, not the sissy worm style ones that come with the car, they will bend at anything over 60ft/lbs of force). I wrapped all the connections with the tape(2wraps on the ic connections, 3 on the metal connections) and let it set for a few minutes in the hot sun to seal...put oil over all the connections so that the pipes would slide over the taping(rtv tape is extremely grabby/rubbery) and used the t-bolt clamps to clamp down. didnt have a torque wrench on it, but a guesimation is around 90ft/lbs. I say just tighten them till they dont turn, the bolt wont strip, and ther are very few people strong enough to actually bend the pipes...depending on the size of the t-clamp you might have to cut a notch, like our stock clamps have, to get a firm seal. I now have no leaks due to IC piping, though the stock bpv also leaks at around 10-11psi...thought from what i've heard this is just me...hopefully this will help some of you out who arent running as well as you should be.

[Aaron]

how do you check for leaks. you must have some special rig set up?

[NeverSober]

Good research but I don't think you are times are correct. Just from doing that you would'nt shave over a second off of your time. Unless other things were wrong when you did the first run. IE heatsoak, didn't know how to drive etc etc. But from just doing that you would'nt shave over a 1sec.


Chris

[Ryoga28]

Is there going to be a pictorial guide?

[DSMConvert]

yes I do have a device I made to do the boost leak test...times are correct when i first started the leak sealing i was leaking 4psi every 10 seconds..this equates to the turbo having to maintain 22psi(way out of eff. range for a t25) and 70F higher temps to stabalize an 11 psi manifold pressure, my a/f ratios were over 1.00 due to the enormous difference between what the maf counted and what the combustion chamber actually saw. My case what extremely bad, most people will only have a slight improvement, id wager to say a quicker throttle response and no more than .2 drop on the quarter time. I had 2 guys off the forums there at the track with me that will verify . I had a thread on this as well. A pictorial may be coming...just gotta find time...I have probaly 6 project lining up for research time, so I usually dont ahve time to go back and take pics onces I've solved the problem, but if there is a strong enough or if someone really needs the picture I could do it...hehe at the moment im very hesitant to take anything apart as I'm scared i'll introduce a new leak...

[BlkZoomZoom]

Please don't tell people to torque the t-bolts to 90 ft/lbs.... You will without a doubt break the intercooler inlet/outlet and probably crush the throttlebody, and turbo inlet for that matter..... If you actually using a torque wrench you probably at maybe 20 ft/lbs (not saying that your weak.....just not dumb enough to try to torque to 90 ).

For ex. VW lugstuds (for the wheels) are torqued to 89 ft/lbs.

[DSMConvert]

when i asked the mazda dealership for the stock torque specs on the IC hose clamps i was told 60 ft lbs of torque...just went out and went thru the tedious task of getting out my torque wrench before it started raining...TB torque is infact at 78ft/lbs..so I was a little off as I said it was a guess....in the interest of safety, i will go out this weekend and get a torque reading on all the connections...i may be off, but i can promise you it was more than 20ft/lbs...I will also call the dealership again and see if perhaps I was given the wrong torque specs...I will edit my post untill i have time to check this scientifically...

[BlkZoomZoom]

you sure your not thinking in/lbs and not ft/lbs......big difference.

Oh and I just checked ESI.....there is no spec. for tightening those clamps....not sure where they came up with that.

[1338]

what did you use for the boost leak down test?

[lamp3]

id like to see some pix of this stuff installed mr. dsm ;)

[dominoy2k1]

you sure your not thinking in/lbs and not ft/lbs......big difference.

Oh and I just checked ESI.....there is no spec. for tightening those clamps....not sure where they came up with that.
hmm whats esi?

[DSMConvert]

had to be up at the crack of dawn to take the f150 to the ford dealership, so I asked one of the techs there and he called the mazda service area. The guy said they do have a spec for the hose clamps, but it isnt car specific, its just a universal spec for hose clamps in general on any automobile, however, he said 60 sounded too high, generally they hand tighten them with a socket wrench till they wont turn, he said thats generally around 45-55 ft/lbs of force for the avg. mechanic...for a boost leak down test you have to set the engine to TDC and then build a contraption to get air into the system. I built mine out of pvc, silicon hose couplings and a valve stem for a tire...