The numbers are out !! [Archive]

Limited Edition

08-06-2002, 07:19 PM

hey newf..

Seems like you are only one who is getting all the information that i am interested in. i'm impressed with 15.4 for the 1/4 mile...
That's pretty much what i ran with a stock honda prelude rated at 200hp. :cool:

How is skidpad measured? what would 0.88g mean?.
i never understood it.
:confused:

What issue is this Car And Driver in? i'd like to get a hold of this copy myself (drinks)

Kooldino

08-06-2002, 07:32 PM

I'd like to know if they use the same injectors as us...

Antoine

08-06-2002, 07:38 PM

True but the MS is from the factory...no worries mate its all under warranty (provided the owner doesn't turn up the boost). It should be able to take out a stock wrx in the handling department anyday.

It's all relative...think how much Spoolin has put into his beast...when you total it up (including the car) it will probably be more than the new MS.

You know I was thinking the 2002 Volkswagen 337 is like the VW version of the MS...sort of...and according to Edmunds it has a TMV of $22,775...although I'm sure they are selling for much more.

Anyone have the 0-60, 1/4 mile and top speed #'s on the 337? Those new vw 1.8t's have 180 hp and 173 tq...but they aren't that fast and you know they don't handle as well as the MP3 or MS.

Just something to think about...

fatbastard

08-06-2002, 10:15 PM

Allen

08-06-2002, 10:47 PM

After looking at the pictures above I'm taking back any negative words I've said about the the Mazdaspeed. Even the color... I think I could get used to it eventually....

The turbo, wheels, stereo unit, gauge, knob... *drool*

Need some (beer) to drown the urge to compare the MP3 to the Mazdaspeed....

MP3 -> (flame2) <- Mazdaspeed

StuttersC

08-07-2002, 04:24 AM

It looks like the same pre-production car that has been going to all of the magazines.

As for the numbers, what changed exactly on the suspension that would give it .02 more g's of grip?? I thought it was the same suspension.

Different tires would give it the change and possibly change the ride characterisitics. I don't know, it looks pretty good to me though.

I also like how they comapred it to other cars in its class. Not to cars that are not even comparable, such as the WRX...

BigBlue

08-07-2002, 10:44 AM

"In a perfect world, I'd want the turbo motor in the MP3"

Telling words to be sure...as anybody who has already turboed their MP3s could attest to.

Great review and it seems like it really hit the mark. The Mazdaspeed will have slightly beefier sway bars I believe.

ZoomZoomH

08-07-2002, 11:15 AM

and all that for $20,500!!!!!!! :eek:

that's right on the spot!

though that would almost put it head to head against a base RSX.... would that be fair competition for the Mazdaspeed???

Hopefully they'll do something about that torque steer before it shows up in the showroom, since that's the biggest gripe the review had about the car (well maybe the paint too, but they're a bunch of old geezers, them C&D reviewers ;) ) :)

Newf

08-07-2002, 11:44 AM

Fatdude! Thanks for posting this !

anyone notice that it said front and side air bags.....oooohhh, I got to have it now :) Just kidding

And the other small note: Our test car did not have abs brakes which will be standard on ......

Wonder how much weight abs adds. Will it effect the 0-60 much. Maybe the final car will be 0-60=7.1.

Think I'll just get the turbo kit. At least I won't have to stare at orange everyday. I love my blue.

katsmp3

08-07-2002, 05:34 PM

Sounds like they prefer the MP3..

I like them both...

MP3skaterNC

08-08-2002, 02:37 AM

well i think i'll be keeping my mp3, and just turboing her. simply because i dont want to drive an orange car everyday of the year, accually not any day of the year. turbo laser blue mica here i come.

Stou

08-08-2002, 07:01 AM

There's a road test in the september issue of Car & Driver!

almzkid

08-08-2002, 07:36 AM

This article reaffirms my belief that the editors for Car and Driver are the oldest,stuffiest most out of touch in the biz. They complain about the braking and then if you read the specs. the car they used did not have the ABS that the MSP will have. They bitch about a stiff ride compared to the MP3. Well it is stiffer, and it will in turn handle a little better around the slalom/skidpad. The whiners, if you want awesome handling, you will have to sacrifice a little comfort ( sorry it doesn't float over Michigan's shit-ass roads). The torque steer thing is a little worrisome, but at least it is because of acceleration, not faulty suspension geometry. The colour thing has been beat to death. Obviously anybody with eyes would prefer the blue on the MP3, but its not an option.... SO GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think the orange will be distinctive and at least its not copying the WRX. Lastly the MSP will seemingly beat the MP3 by 1.5 seconds in the 0-60 run and almost 3 seconds in the 1/4. So i will take my orange pumpkin and whoop your WRX blue MP3 all the way down the track. HAHA.

the " almzkid"

PJ 5

08-08-2002, 08:35 AM

Nice hood? where did you get it from? and how much?

Limited Edition

08-08-2002, 12:34 PM

Stou..

We're talking about this 'road test' write up in the "the numbers are out" thread...check it out. They already scanned it....no need to buy the mag! excellent:D

Stou

08-08-2002, 12:43 PM

Limited Edition, thanks, I'll check the thread.

PJ5, I did it myself and it cost....... lots of time!

Newf

08-08-2002, 12:47 PM

almzkid:

I agree with car and driver being "old and stuffy" They've been that way for a long time now. But, the one thing they do well is get quick 0-60 times. I wouldn't doubt that most other mags won't get 6.9 secs out of it.

On another note......you won't be whoppin my ass in no MS once there is a REAL turbo in the old MP3 here :) One that makes some REAL horsepower, not some wimpy 30hp's.

And mine will still be blue :)

Just kidding dude, but your right on about C & D

APEXistud

08-08-2002, 02:34 PM

This is one thing I've always disliked about C&D, they're all old conservative guys who dislike most things Japanease anyhow. I mean don't get me wrong, but they always seemed a little biased towards American built/engineered vehicles. They were ranting and raving about the SVT Focus and they even ranted about the regular focus when it was released.

Anyhow, I'll be looking more forward to Sport Compact Cars & Road & Tracks opinions about the MS-P. I bet the torque steer isn't really that bad, it can't be any worse than a Civic fitted with 17's. I think the slightly larger tires can be contributed to the torque steer they're experiencing.

The MS-P may not have the best tires availabe either. The Bridgestones are great, but they're no Toyo or BF Goodrich (spelling). Those tires could be why the car doesn't get the same numbers as the MP3, hell the driver could be fat or something. Now that we have actual numbers, let not draw too many conclusions from one test drive and one opinion. I think with more opinions, you will have a better overall view of a car. Of course, these are just my thoughts.:rolleyes:

colin949

08-09-2002, 03:44 AM

hey limited edition how fast does your mp3 go, i checked out your pictures it looks like a pretty big turbo, what are the specs on your car, and what is the fastest speed you have taken it to?

Stou

08-09-2002, 05:05 PM

colin949.... is your question for limited editioon or stou?

colin949

08-09-2002, 05:33 PM

for stou....?

Limited Edition

08-09-2002, 10:53 PM

colin949....

I don't have a Mp3...i'm awaiting delivery for the MS-P..
so i suppose he mistaken my name for yours Stou..
:cool:

Stou

08-09-2002, 11:06 PM

colin949,

I didn't do any dyno yet but I did some run with a g-tech.

Here's some number but I did it with a relatively smooth start. If I try to start to fast, I got to much wheels spin.

0-60 in 6.4 sec
1/4 mile in 14.6 at 101mph

I'm pretty sure that I can do the 1/4 mile under 14 sec with appropriate tire.

Limited Edition

08-10-2002, 03:38 PM

Stou...

Shit that's fast!...i really gotta see your car do high 13's..
if it's capable, then i think you've done an excellent job with your car....
but anyway, 14.6 is awesome! (thumb)

do you have any clips/videos of your BOV?..
What kind of BOV is it? and how much was it?

thanks!

Stou

08-10-2002, 04:23 PM

Unfortunately I don't have a camcorder!

The BOV is a FORGE. Forge is a UK company and they do parts for rally and street cars.

Here'S a pic of the model of BOV I have in my car:

http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/products/images/large/FMDVV4010A.jpg

Here's a link to Forge Motorsport (http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk)

Nick

08-13-2002, 10:24 AM

Has no one noticed a problem with the numbers?

Posted 0-60 MPH 6.9 seconds

Street Start 5-60 mph 8.0

Now think about it, they must be smokin crack.

Its already rolling, so wheel spin is less and its already going 5 mph and its a full second slower. WTF is going on here!!!!!!

I think the article is full of poop:mad:

stealth

08-13-2002, 11:01 AM

Nick

08-13-2002, 11:22 AM

I understand what you are saying, but the turbo is already spooled up and should be very close to full psi.

I just don't see why its a full second slower.

I would assume you would lose more than a second sitting still spinning the tires.

Another thing is I read on an interview with Calloway, he said the car was faster than a WRX, in the 0-60 and the quarter mile.

Somehow its slower now, I just don't get it.

Newf

08-13-2002, 11:58 AM

I'm no turbo expert, but there is no way a turbo is spooled at 5 mph.

And calloway didn't state it was faster, they said if you drive it just right, you'll be able to get it to break 0-60 in under 7 secs, but that it would be very difficult.

If I remember right, Calloway only stated that the MS would be faster on a course, or track then the wrx....which isn't that hard, even for an mp3.

Nick

08-13-2002, 12:07 PM

Sure it can, Haven't you ever heard of a VNT?

Variable Nozzle Turbine? It boosts instantly.

kP_mx6

08-14-2002, 01:31 AM

do the new mazda speed protege have lsd? it would get rid of some of that torque steer wouldnt it?

tritonheat1

08-14-2002, 02:09 AM

Originally posted by Nick
Has no one noticed a problem with the numbers?

Posted 0-60 MPH 6.9 seconds

Street Start 5-60 mph 8.0

Now think about it, they must be smokin crack.

Its already rolling, so wheel spin is less and its already going 5 mph and its a full second slower. WTF is going on here!!!!!!

I think the article is full of poop:mad:

Just to let you know have you heard of turbo lag. Turbo just doesn't spool up that quick you know. Anyways if you look up any car with a 5mph rolling start you will find a .5-.8sec difference in the 0-60mph. To everyone and each of you who are dissing the MS-P well i really wouldn't diss it cause if you think about it that's a Pretty darn Quick 0-60mph # they've choosen 0-60 in 6.9sec 1/4mile in 15.4sec with only 170hp compared to the Eclipse GS-T 210hp 0-60mph in the 6.7-7sec range and 1/4mile in 15.3-15.5sec. Now come on and tell that the Mazdaspeed ain't quick with the disadvantage over other Turbo's with more HP. 210-170hp=40hp advantage and 217ft'lbs-155ft'lbs=62 do the math and figure out why the MS-P is slow and also an eclipse don't come with a suspension nor a system or sparco stuff like the MS-P does and the Eclipse GS-T price tag is at 23-25000$ while the MS-P is at $20,500 upgrade the turbo bigger injectors, add boost controller, BOV, turbo timer and i'm sure it'll be in the low 14's and you just spent that money to put stuff into it and broke even with the Price tag of an Eclipse and plus your running low 14's in an Spicy orange or Black mica MS-P. IMO:)

Nick

08-14-2002, 07:39 AM

I wasn't dissin the MPS. I love the car. I love everything about the car.

What I am mad about is the BS article that says the car is that slow.

I have a turbo car, and it is at least 2 full seconds faster from a 5 mph roll to 60 compared to a standing start to 60 mph.

That was what I had a problem with.

Race someone. Have them sit still and and you start behind them and do 5 mph as soon as you come nose to nose tell the other person to take off and see who gets to 60 mph first and you might change your views on the article.

Ishmael

08-14-2002, 09:37 AM

There is not a car in this world who's standing start time to 60 is not slower than it's off the line time. IF you lost a race to a car rolling at 5 mph while you were sitting, you lost it because he rolled PAST you at 5 mph, thus got a head start enough to make up the time difference. However, if you were on the line and he rolled up to it at 5 mph then you both gunned it (impossible to time), You would beat him hands down.

The what's and why's of this are simple. How many RPM's do you figure the car is turning when it's rolling at 5 mph. 600, 700? What happens when you launch a car like the MSP properly? Drop the clutch at about 4000, right? Where does an engine like the one in the MSP make power? At 600, 700 RPM? Nope. Up in the rev range, where the guy who is launching off the line is spooling.

The only car's whose standing start numbers are close to their off the line numbers are large displacement engines, those that make a ton of torque at low RPM's and don't have to rev to make their power. I bet the MSP on a standing start couldn't even break it's tires loose.

There is nothing BS about that article. You are just clearly misunderstanding what is involved in launching the car vis a vis an of the line situation vs. the standing start.

You can argue this until your face turns blue, but I will just break out factual statistics. That, and if you want, I will gladly race you, and you can have your standing start.

My former 95 Z28 was a blast to launch at 5 mph on a standing start, because it had the torque to break the tires loose and went like mad. My 10AE Miata is useless on a standing start, because it bogs, and that little 1.8 litre doesn't make power until at least 4000 RPM.

Centrifigual force, resistance, all play a part in this.

Anyway, 'nuff said. Maybe you should go write for Car and Driver?

Cheers!

Bryan

Nick

08-14-2002, 09:55 AM

600 to 700 rpm @ 5mph are you nuts. Cars idle at 750 to 850 rpm.

@ 5 mph you would be doing at least 1500- 1800 rpm and instantly hit 2500 as soon as you floor it.

Torque is what gets you moving not HP.

You rev your car up to 4000 rpm and dump it and you sit and spin.

The 2.0 turbo engine makes max torque @ 4500.

How fast can you go in first gear, before you hit redline?
30 to 35 mph maybe.

Another thing I think is off, is the HP numbers.

1 psi of boost equals 8% increase in HP.

That gives a figure of 140 base - 11.2 hp for each psi of boost.
11.2 X 6.9 psi = 77.28 HP 140 + 77.28= 217.28

I don't know if their figures are WHP or CHP. But it does seem to work out with 18% Driveline loss.

Which is exactly the number of HP all the other MP3s that have been turboed and push 7 psi.

Also turbos do not produce HP. They only produce torque and hp is a calcualtion of torque. Max Torque @ 4500

Thats my 2 cents.

Ishmael

08-14-2002, 10:16 AM

I love arguments like this.

A car idles at 750 - 800, I agree, but that is because there is no resistance as far as the driveline goes, so it is free to do it's thing. However, engage the clutch, give it no gas, and the car is rolling (5 mph!), there is resistance, the engine is turning slower. I don't know what you have done to your timing to make it turn so quick at 5 mph (1500??).

Then you go and defeat your own argument before you even start it! I love it!

You are right, TORQUE is what gets you moving, and look at where the torque peaks on the MSP. 4500 RPM. You said it yourself.

So, Realistically, you are rolling at 5 mph (foot is NOT on the gas), you floor it, take engine about .7 to .8 of a second AT LEAST to get up to 3000 RPM, still have not hit the torque peak. However, your buddy next to you who is popping the clutch at 4000 is at his torque peak right NOW and he's gone, while you are still climbing.

As for sitting and spinning, actually, no. Sure, in a large displacement engine with way too much hp, but in something like this, and ditto for my Miata, the tires will spin for a split second, grab, and you are off to the races. If you want to see a Miata launched at 4000 rpm, come visit me, I'll show you, spin for a second and you are gone. Neither the 1.8 litre in the Miata nor the 2.0 litre in the MSP have enough power to break their tires loose for a long burnout.

I won't even touch the psi calculations. If the numbers are off, they got them from Mazda, call them and complain. What with your boost knowledge, you should also go work for Mazda. :rolleyes:

Cheers!

Bryan

Nick

08-14-2002, 10:24 AM

The article states 5 mph roll is 1000 rpm, so I was off, but I was only guessing.

I have a MP3 and I can rev and dump and spin first till no tommorrow, and have to let off the gas to get the car to move forward.

So I assure you, the car will sit and spin and lose the race.

Maybe this car bites better bcause of the LSD, they didn't give any info on what rpm they launched at.

Maybe they did a traffic stop type start, which is the quickest way on radials to acheive the best ET possible.

I just want to see someone else test this car, I personally think it should be faster than it is, that is all.

Another point we forgot to address, is this engine is brand new and probadly isn't broken in yet, so I would assume it is not producing the amount of power they cliam, I would like to see this car tested with 10,000 miles on it. I bet it runs a 14.5, everyone else with turbos are.

slug420

08-14-2002, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by Nick

1 psi of boost equals 8% increase in HP.

That gives a figure of 140 base - 11.2 hp for each psi of boost.
11.2 X 6.9 psi = 77.28 HP 140 + 77.28= 217.28

I don't know if their figures are WHP or CHP. But it does seem to work out with 18% Driveline loss.

Which is exactly the number of HP all the other MP3s that have been turboed and push 7 psi.

i dont know anything about anything. Can some more of your tuning/turbo vetrans weigh in? is there any truth to this? Probably just wishful thinking on my part, but C&D sure didnt seem to dyno the car, more like they put mazda's specs mixed in with a couple numbers of their own.

Despite all my wishful thinking and speculation, I am counting on 170chp. If mazda could have thrown a number at the press like 200hp, im sure they would have. It sure would have helped their zoom zoom image, and probably gotten them a higher ranking on the Automobile magazine's top cars of 2003 or whatever. I understand the counterpoint that a hp advertisement of 200+ would have drawn comparisons to the wrx which it cant, and shouldnt be compared to (even if the engines were the same the awd would kill fwd ont he launch) but still, im not expecting anything over 175 when it is dynoed .

Ishmael

08-14-2002, 10:56 AM

Actually, the FWD vs. AWD on the launch thing is kind of a toss up. Problem with the High HP AWD cars is getting the launch 'just right' and slipping the clutch enough to let the wheels spin and get the car off the line without bogging. I have watched a lot of WRX's get spanked in a straight line because the drivers flat out did not know how to launch them.

Then we get into the WRX's weak link, the tranny, which supposibly is quite easy to bust after repeated high RPM clutch drops.

Just a thought, but a 220 hp MSP would probably beat a WRX in a straight line.

Bryan

slug420

08-14-2002, 01:56 PM

and a 140 hp MS would beat a wrx in any other kind of line (flash)

APEXistud

08-15-2002, 12:25 AM

I'm not sure if anyone else had posted about this yet, but I just got the lastest issue of Sport Compact Car and they dyno'd the MS-P. Here's what they got to the wheels...

151 hp @ 5800 rpm
155 lb-ft @ 3800 rpm

I must admit that these numbers are very impressive. If you do the calculations, there is very little drivetrain loss. SCC was able to rip off a 7.1 0-60 and a 15.3 1/4 mile. What is your guys take on this. I for one am very happy with those numbers and would be more than happy with the Mazdaspeed turbo kit, if they make one available. So let's hear it fellas, what are your opinions

slug420

08-15-2002, 01:12 AM

i subscribe to SCC and didnt get that issue yet:mad:

what was their overall take on the car? what did they have to say about it? etc..etc.... what month issue is it?

APEXistud

08-15-2002, 01:17 AM

It's October issue. They think that overall, it is one the most complete cars "from the factory", that they've had the opportunity drive. They even say it's better than the Type R in some aspects, which we all know is quite a nice thing to say about a Protege.:D Hope you get te issue soon.

slug420

08-15-2002, 01:18 AM

oh yea, and of course at this stage nearly everything is still rumors but my dealer told me that mazda was trying to keep the mazdaspeeds exclusive, and one way they were doing this was to only offer the turbo kit that comes on the MS as a replacement for an existing one. he SAID that they would require a VIN from a MS-P and possibly to take in the old one when giving a replacement. You may not believe this, im just relaying what I was told, and if you do it may sound discouraging but Mazdaspeed is allegedly coming out with performance parts in addition to those on the MS-P and I wouldnt be too suprised if a turbo for proteges was among these performance parts. I could imagine the turbo being more robust than the one on the MS-P to appeal more to tuners and compete with 3rd party turbos, and although that may sound foolish to not allow you to buy the weaker turbo that is on the MS-P but to allow you to but a stronger one through a Mazdaspeed parts line this is exactly the kind of thing I could imagine a car company doing........

tritonheat1

08-15-2002, 02:43 AM

tritonheat1

08-15-2002, 02:50 AM

oops here ya go www.caranddriver.com/xp/caranddriver/roadtests/1999/April/199904_roadtest_honda_civicsi.xml?&Manufacturer=honda&name=civic&class=42&page5

www.caranddriver.com/xp/caranddriver/roadtests/1999/April/199904_roadtest_honda_civicsi.xml?&Manufacturer=honda&name=civic&class=42&page6

tritonheat1

08-15-2002, 02:55 AM

my bad www.caranddriver.com/xp/caranddriver/roadtests/1999/April/199904_roadtest_honda_civicsi.xml?&Manufacturer=honda&name=civic&class=42&page=5

www.caranddriver.com/xp/caranddriver/roadtests/1999/April/199904_roadtest_honda_civicsi.xml?&Manufacturer=honda&name=civic&class=42&page=6

tritonheat1

08-15-2002, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by tritonheat1
my bad www.caranddriver.com/xp/caranddriver/roadtests/1999/April/199904_roadtest_honda_civicsi.xml?&Manufacturer=honda&name=civic&class=42&page=5

www.caranddriver.com/xp/caranddriver/roadtests/1999/April/199904_roadtest_honda_civicsi.xml?&Manufacturer=honda&name=civic&class=42&page=6

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/caranddriver/roadtests/1999/April/199904_roadtest_honda_civicsi.xml?&Manufacturer=honda&name=civic&class=42&page=5

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/caranddriver/roadtests/1999/April/199904_roadtest_honda_civicsi.xml?&Manufacturer=honda&name=civic&class=42&page=6

tritonheat1

08-15-2002, 03:12 AM

:p uhh I'm tired of this but here haha http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/caranddriver/roadtests/1999/April/199904_roadtest_honda_civicsi.xml?&Manufacturer=honda&name=civic&class=22&page=6

tritonheat1

08-15-2002, 03:37 AM

Originally posted by tritonheat1
:p uhh I'm tired of this but here haha http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/caranddriver/roadtests/1999/April/199904_roadtest_honda_civicsi.xml?&Manufacturer=honda&name=civic&class=22&page=6
umm whatever i guess it doesn't wanna work but just go to caranddriver.com click reviews/roadtests on the left then look up the honda or mitsubishi and it'll tell you specs about the car.

StuttersC

08-15-2002, 04:48 AM

What the hell??(scratch)

big_ben

08-15-2002, 07:50 AM

I have heard from Mazda reps that it diesn't look like thy will release the turbo system as a kit. They said there were always a possibility of it, but right now, it doesn't look like it. As for getting a replacement one, anypart that is replaced under warranty has to be exchanged. I know this because they wouldn't let me keep my old floor mats.

Lawerence

08-15-2002, 11:52 AM

That is one impressive dyno!
More HP to the wheels than my specV and the same tq!

Those are good 60 and 1/4 mile times, same as the specv.

I think it will be a little quicker when you get around 5k on the odo.

almzkid

08-15-2002, 12:54 PM

I have the SCC article regarding the Spec-V and not to pour water on your fire, they came up with less than 140hp at the wheels. It was definately a dissapointing test according to SCC. I reserved My MSP about 3 months ago and with all of these articles now pouring in, it is just making the wait harder and harder. The numbers are a lot higher than I was expecting. Especially the torque figure. I was at Toronto Dragway park 2 weekends ago and there were two Spec-V's and they were both running 15.7-15.9, not once did they get in the 15.2-15.3 seconds range. Sweet car though, very torquey and a deep sound to the motor.

the "almzkid".

APEXistud

08-15-2002, 01:08 PM

Actually guys, I didn't read the full article....:rolleyes:, SCC's sources indicated that there will be no protege turbo kit available....for now

It's also nice to know what BigBen, Spoolin, WShade, Stou and all the other custom turbo guys will be up against as far as the Mazdaspeed goes. The power you guys have is already enough to beat a Mazdaspeed in a straight line, but after reading the SCC article, you kind of get the impression that the Mazdaspeed is more of a solid performer in the twisties than our beloved MP3 was. I know the limited slip is the main factor for it's better feel, but they also claimed that the dampening is different from the MP3, thus enhancing the solid feel that the MP3 had. Hell their caption on the front of the mag next to the MS-P says it all. "Full Test, Full Wood"

For better power, SCC had the same idea I did. A larger diameter exhaust, bigger intercooler, then of course a boost controller. We can't ignore the obvious which would be a BOV and conical filter to increase the volume of the spooling noise. The BOV would help intimidate unsuspecting victims.(hump)

StuttersC

08-16-2002, 02:42 AM

I'll have to look for that issue for the article...

I was under the impression that the suspension would carry over directly from the MP3. I wonder how/if they changed it?

Antoine

08-16-2002, 02:59 AM

They even say it's better than the Type R in some aspects

(thumb)

Go MAZDASPEED Protegé!!!

The MS suspension has been tweaked...I believe.

freekwonder

08-16-2002, 08:36 AM

beside the LSD, i wonder what else they changed on the MS-P as for the suspension. wouldnt be such a abad thing to switch over and sell my MP3 suspension. But I am going to look into the LSD.

almzkid

08-16-2002, 09:15 AM

There are actually quite a few differences in the two suspensions. Nothing dramatic but more upgrades. The stabilizer bars are larger as is the driveshaft. The have retuned the valve springs, bushings and dampeners. The LSD obviously, heavier front and rear anti-roll bars and firmer valving in the shock absorbers. Most of the upgrades are just to make up for the increase in power, but they have also solved the damping issue that was the only complaint about the MP3's handling. Also they have solved the bushing problem that afflicted most if not all MP3's ( damn the clunking is gone...that is to bad).

the "almzkid"

big_ben

08-16-2002, 09:19 AM

The stabilizer bars are larger
No, I think all they did different was to change the spring rates and increase the dampening of the struts. I'm almost positive about this.

almzkid

08-16-2002, 09:45 AM

Actually the stabilizer bars have been increased from 25mm to 27mm and the driveshaft diameter has increased from 22m to 24 mm. As I said not huge differences but when all the little differences are added up you get overall a much improved package. 0.86g vs 0.88g.

the "almzkid"

big_ben

08-16-2002, 10:02 AM

Where did you get that info?

almzkid

08-16-2002, 10:08 AM

Go to www.protegetech.com and there is a complete list of the specs on the Mazdaspeed. The Mazda Usa site also has all of the specs/features, etc...

the"almzkid".

Lawerence

08-16-2002, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by almzkid
I have the SCC article regarding the Spec-V and not to pour water on your fire, they came up with less than 140hp at the wheels. It was definately a dissapointing test according to SCC. I reserved My MSP about 3 months ago and with all of these articles now pouring in, it is just making the wait harder and harder. The numbers are a lot higher than I was expecting. Especially the torque figure. I was at Toronto Dragway park 2 weekends ago and there were two Spec-V's and they were both running 15.7-15.9, not once did they get in the 15.2-15.3 seconds range. Sweet car though, very torquey and a deep sound to the motor.

the "almzkid".

It's cool I mean, they did not dyno my car :)
When I did I got 143 whp (max)
and my best 1/4 mile is 15.28@90.61, so you are not hurting my feelings!

And how did you reserve your MSP? I went to mazda and they wouldn't even let me give them $$$$ to hold me one!

almzkid

08-16-2002, 10:31 AM

I went to Erin Mills Mazda in Mississauga in early June and gave them $1000 cdn of my hard earned money. I can use that as part of my down payment or I will get it back upon delivery and just trade in my current car. They are only getting two and both are spoken for already, so I would suggest searching the "Major" Mazda dealerships and see what you can find. I hope I didn't offend you. I like the Spec-V a lot. I just think they should have colour coded the interior ( that red is brutal ) and only matches a red or black car and also the rear needs some skirting badly. It sits to high in the air. I love the rims and the performance is definately right in the ball park for a really good price. It is the cheapest in this segement that is for sure.

the "almzkid".

Kooldino

08-16-2002, 11:25 AM

Wow, the WHP for the MS-P is good! I wonder what they did to eliminate drivetrain loss?

Anyway, didn't I read somewhere that the original mp3 actually handled BETTER than the MS-P?

ZoomZoomH

08-16-2002, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Kooldino
Wow, the WHP for the MS-P is good! I wonder what they did to eliminate drivetrain loss?

Anyway, didn't I read somewhere that the original mp3 actually handled BETTER than the MS-P?

Well, I think Car and Driver said the MP3 RIDES better than the MS-P. They think the MS-P is way too harsh, hence the 'skateboard-like ride' description :rolleyes:

almzkid

08-16-2002, 11:31 AM

The old farts at Car and Driver preferred the ride of the MP3 better. Those old fucks didn't like how stiff the MSP was. They said that the MSP was a little harsh and wasn't as "cushy" as the MP3 was. I am still young so give me a car that is a little to stiff of a ride any day. If you want a soft comfortable ride, get a Lincoln and stop dissing sweet rides like the MSP. As you can tell Car and Driver gets on my last nerve. Any good handling car is going to be stiff and maybe a little harsh, my uncle has a 89 Carrera 4 and It is STIFF, but it is the best handling car I have ever driven. You have to give a little to get a lot.

the "almzkid".

APEXistud

08-16-2002, 02:17 PM

The MS-P does have the same diameter sway bars as the MP3. Sadly protegetech isn't the most reliable source for information. I think they may have included the larger diameter sway bars that Racing Beat briefly spoke of their website almost a year or so ago.

It's interesting to see Car & Driver's view on a great handling import and then comparing it to Sport Compact Cars view on that very same car. I say we take C&D beloved SVT Focus then run it on a track against the MS-P. That would be a very interesting match up. We know how they both look on paper, but how would they do in real life is what counts.

big_ben

08-16-2002, 02:27 PM

Sadly protegetech isn't the most reliable source for information
Actually, I know the guy that owns the site because he is here in Dallas, and he gets his info straight from Mazda most of the time. He has some connections there and Mazda will soon be linking to his site. But I still don't believe that the sway bars are bigger. If they are though, I want them for sure!

LinuxRacr

08-16-2002, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by big_ben

Actually, I know the guy that owns the site because he is here in Dallas, and he gets his info straight from Mazda most of the time. He has some connections there and Mazda will soon be linking to his site. But I still don't believe that the sway bars are bigger. If they are though, I want them for sure!

I can vouch for this. Looking at the picture in the SCC magazine I have in front of me, I think that the swaybar is the same size at least under the hood.

Gro Harlem

08-17-2002, 05:03 PM

The swaybars are bigger, I think it was mentioned in the Car and Driver issue as well.

I know a guy who has connections to Mazda and he also tells me they are bigger.

manuel

08-17-2002, 08:02 PM

luckily houston will be getting 9 MS Proteges :D ill be the owner of one. btw, linux, how can you see any difference between 2-3 MM from a picture?

LinuxRacr

08-17-2002, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by manuel
luckily houston will be getting 9 MS Proteges :D ill be the owner of one. btw, linux, how can you see any difference between 2-3 MM from a picture?

Hmmm...probably not!:D

StuttersC

08-18-2002, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by manuel
luckily houston will be getting 9 MS Proteges :D ill be the owner of one. btw, linux, how can you see any difference between 2-3 MM from a picture?

Super hero vision...Well, maybe not...

Kooldino

08-18-2002, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by ZoomZoomH

Well, I think Car and Driver said the MP3 RIDES better than the MS-P. They think the MS-P is way too harsh, hence the 'skateboard-like ride' description :rolleyes:

Sorry, Mr Rolleyes, I didn't have the article in front of me.

Kooldino

08-18-2002, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by big_ben

Actually, I know the guy that owns the site because he is here in Dallas, and he gets his info straight from Mazda most of the time. He has some connections there and Mazda will soon be linking to his site. But I still don't believe that the sway bars are bigger. If they are though, I want them for sure!

Even if they are bigger (which is allegedly very slight), I doubt you'd notice a difference.

APEXistud

08-18-2002, 04:24 AM

I doubt anyone will notice the difference in swaybar diameters on the road. But hey, who knows.

MMMatHeart

08-21-2002, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by APEXistud
It's October issue. They think that overall, it is one the most complete cars "from the factory", that they've had the opportunity drive. They even say it's better than the Type R in some aspects, which we all know is quite a nice thing to say about a Protege.:D Hope you get te issue soon.

Hi. Thanks for posting the info. Would someone scan a copy and post this article? My neck of the woods probably doesn't sell the Oct SCC issue until Sept. There's nothing on their website either.

APEXistud

08-21-2002, 09:28 PM

I would love to help you out, but I have a MAC and have recently updated to OSX. :( My scanner isn't compatible with OSX. I'm sure someone else can hook you up though.

SlickShoes

08-22-2002, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by APEXistud
It's interesting to see Car & Driver's view on a great handling import and then comparing it to Sport Compact Cars view on that very same car. I say we take C&D beloved SVT Focus then run it on a track against the MS-P. That would be a very interesting match up. We know how they both look on paper, but how would they do in real life is what counts.

That would be a very interesting match up. The SVT Focus used by SCC had the non-defeatable traction control on it also, so it slowed it down in both the slalom and 1/4. There's not much out right now that can hang with the SVT Focus through the twisties...

It definitely sounds like MS is underrating the power output here. I can't imagine a modern turbo'd 2.0L, even at only 6.9 lbs of boost, only putting out 170hp and 155 ft/lbs.

I'd bet money that a good chip would be able to significantly up those numbers. Similar to the way the VW 1.8T has seen.