How To: Racing Beat rear Sway bar on P5/ES

[garretts77]

Ok, this is my instructions on how to install a Racing Beat rear sway bar on a Protege5 or ES (assuming that the ES is the same as a P5). This may also work on other 3rd gen models, but I could not say for sure. This how to: is for installation using AWR's mounting brackets, not the MSP rear subframe. Mods feel free to move this to the How To section if you so desire.

First things first. What you will need:
Racing beat rear sway bar
AWR brackets
AWR Poly bushings (the ones that Tony at AWR sent to me were 19mm)
Socket wrench and 14mm socket
Lithium grease
Mountain Dew Live Wire cause it's tasty...
Not pictured: 14mm box wrench, 5mm (I think) allen wrench

Will also need new endlinks, either MP3/MSP should work, or some adjustables like AWR will work. The P5 endlinks are too short. See bottom of post for more info.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/garretts77/picture001%20005small.jpg



Step one: Remove lower end link bolt from factory sway bar. This is using the 14mm socket wrench. The first one came off rather easily. The second one was a bit tougher. I found that I was able to spin the nut, but the whole bolt was spinning with it. This is when you will need the 5mm allen wrench and 14mm box wrench. The bolt has a hole in it for an allen wrench. Hold the bolt in place and turn the nut. Then slide from the factory sway bar.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/garretts77/picture001%20006small.jpg



Step two: Remove the factory brackets from the rear subframe. There are two brackets. Each one has a nut and a bolt. These are 14mm as well. Remove both brackets.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/garretts77/picture001%20007small.jpg



Step three: You are now finished with the removal process. Easy huh? Pull out the factory rear sway and set aside. You are going to use the horseshoe brackets from this bar.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/garretts77/picture001%20008small.jpg



Step four: Install AWR brackets. The new bracket will fit over the bolt that was left in the subframe. Tighten the nut and bolt that you removed back on the subframe.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/garretts77/picture001%20009small.jpg

http://www.msprotege.com/members/garretts77/picture001%20010small.jpg



Step five: Lube up the poly bushings. I used a crap load. It may possibly be too much, but I figured it was better than not enough. I lubed both the bushings and the bar.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/garretts77/picture001%20011small.jpg



Step six: The horseshoe brackets that wrapped your stock bushings are re-used over the newer (and bigger) poly bushings. The 19mm bushings do not fit exactly as they probably should due to the fact the bar is a 20mm bar. The Mazda bushings may fit better, but I used what Tony suggested. We will see how they hold up. Anyways fit the horseshoe brackets over the poly bushings and slide back under the car. The horseshoe brackets will line up with the holes in the AWR bracket. Secure them with the 4 bolts provided with the AWR brackets.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/garretts77/picture001%20012small.jpg



Step seven: Re-connect the end link to their new home. Use the allen wrench and box wrench if necessary.


Viola! You are finished. I have never done this mod before today, and from start to finish, including the time it took to take pictures took me about 45 minutes. And that was taking my time. It was very simple to do. Once you get under there, it is very obvious what needs to happen. Here is the finished product.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/garretts77/picture001%20013small.jpg



A couple of things to note: The Mazda bushings may fit the bar better. In fact I am sure that they would, however I do not know if they would perform better or worse than the polyurethane AWR bushings. I also do not know if they would fit in the stock horseshoe brackets. You might need to upgrade to the MP3/MSP horseshoe brackets, but I do not know for sure.
Also the end links do seem a bit weak once you get under there and look at them. They are supposed to work fine, but the AWR end links would make a fine upgrade I am sure.

That is it. If anybody else has done this mod and sees something blatantly wrong with what I posted here, let me know. The car handles fantastically! I did a little Indy car style tire warm up swerving down my street ant it felt like a slot car. Very little body roll. And the cloverleaf on-ramp to the freeway was no match for the RB bar. Good times!

Update(June 14,2004) <-- see update on post 14

Update(December 09,2004) <-- Problems were encountered while using the factory P5 endlinks. They are too short and cause the bar to rotate 180 degrees towards the front of the car. This has happened to a few people. Longer endlinks are needed. I assume that the factory MP3/MSP endlinks would be fine, but I used the AWR endlinks since the cost is about the same from the dealer. I adjusted them so that they are slightly down (5-10 degrees) from parallel to the ground. I have been driving on these for a while and it is great. I added this info later in the thread, but forgot to put it here.

Enjoy!

[macklum]

Thats what I did on my 2001LX,Everything looks great ,nice how to .
By the way wait until you put the adjustable endlinks and set the swaybar so the legs of the swaybar are paralell with the ground .

[garretts77]

I was just asked for a price breakdown. At the time that this was written, the price for the AWR brackets cost about $20.xx each. The Poly bushings were $5.xx something each. So approx $50 plus shipping. I got the sway bar used from a member, so in my case the entire upgrade cost about $90. And it made a significant difference. Well worth $90. I just hope that the tabs on the P5 struts hold out for a while. If not I guess i will be getting some Tokiko HP's and my suspension will be finished...

[DistantTea]

What kind of lube did you use?

[mp5smuggler]

you can see the lube in the first photo

[garretts77]

I used lithium grease. I asked Tony at AWR what he thought would be best and he said that it is probably a good idea to use what the rest of the guys on the forum are having the best luck with. But he also mentioned a product from the mountain bike industry called Prolink chain lube by Progold. He said that this is also a good way to go.

Up to you...

[DistantTea]

I've been to about a dozen shops and for some horrible twist of fate I CANNOT find any lithium grease. Its really starting to piss me off. I've been trying all kinds of stuff.

[garretts77]

Napa was the first store that I went to and they had 4 or five different containers in various brands and sizes... Maybe a hardware store might have it?

[Pretzellogic]

Thanks for the great write up. I'm thinking about installing one myself.

[garretts77]

Thanks for the great write up. I'm thinking about installing one myself.
Do it. I am sure that you won't be disappointed.

[rustychops41]

couple of things to note: The Mazda bushings may fit the bar better.

I ended up going back to the rubber OEM "D" bushings due to the noise levels of the urethane, lubed or not. What I did was find a socket that was exactly 19MM in outside diameter, probably a 14mm or so. (I have the 19mm AWR bar, but you get the idea). If in doubt, use an open-end wrench to see if the socket "slips right in there." Then just use a Dremel or something similar and "hog out" the stock bushing until that socket fits good without a gap at the split in the OEM bushing. I probably lost a teeny bit of stiffness with the rubber versus the urethane, but the squeaking was worse than watching all of the Planet Of The Apes movies. . . . . out of sequence!

[BlueWolfCry]

good write up man. do you know anyone who distributes the racing beat sway bar? and what is better about the racingbeat sway bar than the oem p5 swaybar? thank you

[garretts77]

OEM bar is either 16mm or 17mm. Racing beat bar is 20mm. That is pretty significant. Check out the chart below from Whiteline for an idea of the increase in rear end stiffness...

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/010barup.pdf

From 16mm to 20mm is 144% stiffer and from 17mm to 20mm is 92% stiffer. I got the bar from an MSP owner that upgraded to AWR 21.5mm. They are up for sale often on this forum and have popped up a couple of times on eBay.

BTW, AWR makes a 19mm and a 21.5mm (obviously). I have read from some of the Aussie members that Whiteline makes a good bar that fits our cars, but you will probably have to contact them for specifics. I think that Suspension Techniques makes a set too, but I'm not sure. If you got any of these aftermarket bars, then this write-up may or may not apply.

[garretts77]

OK, I have had the sway installed for a little over a week, and I love it. The suspension feels a little stiffer on uneven roads, but not harsh. ON the corners it handles much better. I was always pretty impressed with how the P5 handled with just springs and tires, but the sway makes it that much better.

I mentioned above that I was a little unsure about the smaller 19mm bushings. Well it turns out that I was right. The bushing is 1mm too small in diameter which means it is over 3mm too small in circumference. Well I took the car out to the mountains on Saturday to really try it out. It was great! for about 2 hours, then I started hearing clunking from the rear. I figured it was the infamous MSP clunk, but I took it easy and went back home. By the time I got home it was clunking over every little bump. When I looked under the car, one of the bushings was smashed. It was strectched out to about 3 inches long and not seated properly under the horseshoe bracket anymore. I am not putting down the AWR bushings at all, just that the 19mm didn't work very well on the 20mm bar. So I went to the dealer this morning and got the MSP bushings. They are part number BN7H-28-156E and are about $15/ea to anybody that is interested. I will try these out again sometime soon.

EDIT: I went to put on the Mazda bushings, and they do not fit in the P5 horseshoe brackets. I guess that I will need to buy some of them too. I will find out the cost tomorrow.

[FC3s Boy]

nice see you on the next mountian run

[wannabe]

any update on the cost of the MSP horseshoes?

[SpicyMchaggis]

don't you need different struts to use the stabilizer bar? or is it just the end links?

[wannabe]

don't you need different struts to use the stabilizer bar? or is it just the end links?

a couple people have had bad luck, and have snapped the tabs off their struts. but all in all, you dont really need anything....

my car with 53,000 miles on it needs new endlinks. if i snap the tabs off, then i guess i need those as well.

[garretts77]

any update on the cost of the MSP horseshoes?
Well the MSP bushings do not fit in the P5 horseshoe brackets. They are just too damn big. So I went to the dealer to price the MSP brackets and they are $35 a piece! And I don't even know if they actually fit in the AWR mounting brackets. So I ordered another set of AWR bushings and I am going to dremel the hole a little bigger to make it nearer to 20mm.

PS: I experimented on one of the MSP bushings and cut away a bunch of material to make it fit in the P5 bracket, but by the time I was done, there was barely any bushing left. The walls were very thin, and since they are made out of rubber, I didn't think that would work. I am going to take the other one back and use that money for the two new AWR ones.

[macklum]

When I put my MP3 rear bar on my sedan i used the rubber bushings that came withthe stock bar and opened them up to fit the 20mm bar ,i havent had any problems for 2 yrs .

[garretts77]

Yeah, that is what I plan on doing with the AWR ones. I think that the gap was just too big with the 19mm hole. I don't really expect a problem with these new ones.

[wannabe]

When I put my MP3 rear bar on my sedan i used the rubber bushings that came withthe stock bar and opened them up to fit the 20mm bar ,i havent had any problems for 2 yrs .

i assume you still needed the new brackets from AWR?

this is prolly what i will do...ill save the $10 and buy myself a lunch sometime...

[protegeV]

is the mountain dew required too?(lol2)

[wannabe]

what about the AWR sticker? (rlaugh)

[garretts77]

The Mountain Dew is required!

One more thing to add to the list are some new endlinks. I drove on it with stock endlinks for a week with no problem, but whe I drove it hard this past weekend, I encountered a problem. Normally a properly installed sway bar is parallel to the ground and pointing toward the back of the car. I must have hit a bump or something but the endlinks are short enough that they allowed the sway to rotate up and over the top so that the bar now pointed toward the front of the car and up at like 45 degrees. So I jacked up the car and put it back to the correct position again, and the same thing happened. So I went over to SPD racing and looked at a few of the MSP endlinks, and they seem to be a bit longer. I think that they will solve the issue, but it is another thing to add to the list. AWR probably has some adjustables thay will work too, but it looks like the P5 endlinks are not going to work...

[wannabe]

DUUUDE!

i am so happy.

i got my new sway bar today, and not only did the guys at the junk yard send me the bar, they also sent me the bushings, the horseshoes, AND the endlinks!

now i just need to get the brackets from AWR....

[garretts77]

I hope the MSP horseshoes fit on the AWR brackets... I have no idea if they mount differently or not, but I am guessing they are bigger. You might end up using the ES horseshoes anyways...

[Mazdacub]

I installed a racingbeat sway bar over a month ago. All you really need is the MSP bushings and the plates. The P5 end links don’t have to be changed . I had one clunking problem because I could not tighten the old end link onto the new sway bar tight enough so it moved around in the oversized hole in the sway bar end. I had to get new end liks ones because I stripped the nuts trying to get them off to make the swap. I have had no clunking problems after the new end links were installed. I autocross and it sure makes a difference in the handling of the car. The ass end tends to slide out easier, but you can sure hold a corner.

BN7H-28-155A Stabilizing plate x 2
BN7H-28-156E Stabilizing bushing x 2
BP7H-28-151A Stabilizer
The end links are the same as the MSP, I had them check the part number.

[wannabe]

so you have the msp horseshoes? and didnt need to change the subframe/get the AWR brackets? i thought that was impossible....

[macklum]

The Mazdaspeed horseshoes will not fit on the AWR spacers ,you have to use the ones form your ES . I know because I tried to fit the speed ones

[garretts77]

And the MSP endlinks are longer. I had them side by side with my P5 endlinks...

[ChopstickHero]

great write up and pictures.

so if you are going to install the MSP (racing beat) sway bar ... it's best to have the
complete package pulled straight from an MSP. meaning it should include:

msp sway bar
msp endlinks (longer than P5)
msp bushings
msp horseshoe bracks

I'm assuming that the AWR brackets to mount the sway bar are a must, since the MSP brackets aren't totally compatible with the P5 rear subframe.

Mike

[garretts77]

That sounds about right, however I am not sure if the MSP horseshoe brackets will fit the AWR mounts. If you could get the MSP subframe, then they would definately fit, but the point of this was to do it without the subframe.

The msp horseshoes are bigger in order to fit a larger bushing. I haven't ever seen one so I do not know if the mounting holes are in the same location as the P5 ones or not.

[macklum]

The Mazdaspeed horseshoes will not fit on the AWR spacers ,you have to use the ones form your ES . I know because I tried to fit the speed ones

[ChopstickHero]

but the horseshoe brackets from the ES/P5 are too small for the MSP bushings....

edit: i guess the only bushings that can be used are modified AWR bushings... got it... :P

[macklum]

but the horseshoe brackets from the ES/P5 are too small for the MSP bushings....

edit: i guess the only bushings that can be used are modified AWR bushings... got it... :P No you can use the stock ES/LX sway bar bushings but have to open them up to fit the MSP bar ,That what I did . It worked great .

[ChopstickHero]

No you can use the stock ES/LX sway bar bushings but have to open them up to fit the MSP bar ,That what I did . It worked great .
right...... thanks....

the AWR 19mm swaybar essentially the same as the racing beat one?

[garretts77]

Yeah, that will work too. I ended up opening up the AWR ones a little bit. I wanted to keep the stock ones so that it could all be returned to stock if need be. I found a socket that had the same outside diameter as the sway bar (20mm) and opened up the bushing until it fit the socket well. I used a Dremel with a sanding bit and just went around and around with light pressure until the socket fit. It took about 10 minutes per bushing. It seems to work fine.

[NRRfrogmanP5]

this is interesting i have one sittin at a buddys house that needs to go on

[dmitrik4]

right...... thanks....

the AWR 19mm swaybar essentially the same as the racing beat one?

depends on what you mean by "essentially the same." here's how they go in size:

LX/DX bar: ???
ES/P5 bar: 16 or 17mm
AWR 19mm bar: 19mm
RB (MP3/MSP) bar: 20mm
AWR 21.5mm bar: 21.5mm

[macklum]

depends on what you mean by "essentially the same." here's how they go in size:

LX/DX bar: 15mm ES/P5 bar: 16 or 17mm
AWR 19mm bar: 19mm
RB (MP3/MSP) bar: 20mm
AWR 21.5mm bar: 21.5mm I added the lx size to your post .

[ChopstickHero]

i didn't end up getting the MSP one, the person selling wanted too much ($150 CDN).

somebody else on my board is selling the 19mm fully adjustable AWR sway bar for alot cheaper, i may pick that one up, but will have to buy the AWR mounting brackets and possibly bushings. i think this one would be cheaper and involve less modification to get everything to fit together.

[wannabe]

just to make sure im being super overly redunant....

i have the MP3 sway bar. I have the MP3 busings. I have the MP3 endlinks. I have the MP3 horseshoes.

i also have the horseshoes/bushings/bar from the ES. my endlinks are shot and need to be cut off (54k, rusted solid).

do I *NEED* anything else?
i am being confused about the brackets and bushing in particular.....

heres what i think i need:
bushings from AWR
brackets from AWR

am i correct? do i really need the bushings from them? or should i just use either the MP3 or ES ones?

i just dont want to cut off my sway bar thinkin i have everything i need when i dont.....

[garretts77]

just to make sure im being super overly redunant....

i have the MP3 sway bar. I have the MP3 busings. I have the MP3 endlinks. I have the MP3 horseshoes.

i also have the horseshoes/bushings/bar from the ES. my endlinks are shot and need to be cut off (54k, rusted solid).

do I *NEED* anything else?
i am being confused about the brackets and bushing in particular.....

heres what i think i need:
bushings from AWR
brackets from AWR

am i correct? do i really need the bushings from them? or should i just use either the MP3 or ES ones?

i just dont want to cut off my sway bar thinkin i have everything i need when i dont.....
The AWR bushings will work with the horseshoes from the ES, but not from the MP3. The MP3 ones are larger.

As for the brackets from AWR, they will work with the horseshoes from the ES, but I am unsure if they will work with the MP3 horseshoes. I don't know if the holes mount in the same location. You could ask AWR about that.

If the MP3 horseshoes do fit the AWR brackets, I would say use the MP3 bushings, horseshoes, and endlinks, and get the AWR brackets to mount them.

If they do not fit, then you will probably need to do what I did, and use the ES horseshoes, MP3 endlinks, and AWR bushings.

I hope this helps...

[wannabe]

ok. i'll send tony at AWR another email about the mp3 horseshoes.

thanks for your help.

[BlkZoomZoom]

I have a couple of RB MSP swaybars for sale........

[garretts77]

I have a couple of RB MSP swaybars for sale........
^^ Is where I got mine...

[dmitrik4]

mp3wannabe: don't worry about taking off the old bar. i've been driving around w/out a rear bar for about a week, since when i installed my MSP springs/struts i couldn't get the rear endlinks off. i just removed the struts and bar as one unit. it leans a little in corners (but the ride is really nice!), but as long as you're not autoXing it should be fine.

i hope to receive the RB bar i won on ebay this week. from the pic, it looks like it comes w/ endlinks and bushings.

from this thread, and macklum's post, it sounds like i can just reuse my ES bushings and horseshoes over the RB bar. macklum, let me know if i'm misunderstanding this.

[macklum]

[QUOTEfrom this thread, and macklum's post, it sounds like i can just reuse my ES bushings and horseshoes over the RB bar. macklum, let me know if i'm misunderstanding this.[/QUOTE] You are correct you can use those parts . Just rememberto open the small bar bushings to fit the new bar

[dmitrik4]

when you say "open," you mean just put them on the new bar? IIRC, they are already split, so i can just unwrap them from the current bar and wrap them around the new one. but i haven't looked too closely at them...will i need to cut them?

[macklum]

when you say "open," you mean just put them on the new bar? IIRC, they are already split, so i can just unwrap them from the current bar and wrap them around the new one. but i haven't looked too closely at them...will i need to cut them? The P5 bar I believe is 15mm the racing beat bar is 20 mm ,you have to open the 15 mm bushings to 20mm . This way you can use the P5 horseshoes . you can use a dremel tool with a sanding drum on it to open the bushings . some else has done this ,check back in the post to find that info .

[fLyPiNoY7]

any clunks from this setup?

[mp5smuggler]

i just put the mp3 racingbeat onto my 5. it makes a nice difference. as for a clunk i dont know... it might be my exhaust

[dmitrik4]

The P5 bar I believe is 15mm the racing beat bar is 20 mm ,you have to open the 15 mm bushings to 20mm . This way you can use the P5 horseshoes . you can use a dremel tool with a sanding drum on it to open the bushings . some else has done this ,check back in the post to find that info .

well it's been a few weeks and a few autoX events, and the bar is looking (and working!) good. i didn't hog out the bushings at all, just put them on the new bar (the old ES bar is either 16 or 17mm), and tapped the brackets onto the bushings.

the only trouble was getting the holes in the brackets to line up with the std and bolt hole on the subframe. i got it to work by working on the bolt first- just thread it in a few turns, enough to keep it from coming out, but loose enough to allow the bracket to move a bit. the fit the other end over the stud...i had to push on one side a decent amount, but the other bracket went on with little fuss. then just tighten up. i notice a (very) slight clunk from the right side every once in a while, but that's it. nothing that even bothers me. best $40 i ever spent on my car.

thanks for the info macklum.

[wannabe]

i didn't hog out the bushings at all, just put them on the new bar (the old ES bar is either 16 or 17mm),


...line up with the std and bolt hole on the subframe....
so you used the stock bushings AND the stock subframe?? good thing i havent bought the brackets yet! saved me $40! thats 40 i can use towards my header!

[fLyPiNoY7]

ok, so i have my racing beat bar...it arrived with the mp3 endlinks, mp3 bushings and mp3 brackets...will i be able to mount this directly to my p5?

edit: nvm, they didnt work...im just wondering if i should have gotten the awr brackets since the bar seems to be facing extremely downward...

[FunkyBuddha]

Ok to clarify this is what you need if you don't go AWR

MSP racing beat sway bar
MSP horshoe brackets
MSP teflon lined bushings (eliminates squeaking)


Oh..that bar rotating to the front thing, that just happened to me. Be careful guys. I was going into my underground parkade when it happened

[Roywhitep5]

ok, so i have my racing beat bar...it arrived with the mp3 endlinks, mp3 bushings and mp3 brackets...will i be able to mount this directly to my p5?

edit: nvm, they didnt work...im just wondering if i should have gotten the awr brackets since the bar seems to be facing extremely downward...
did you get the msp rear crossmember? i had to replace my stock rear crossmember to make the new brackets fit

[fLyPiNoY7]

nope...all i did was hog out the stock bushings and bolt them directly to the p5 subframe using the stock horseshoes...essentially, the only thing that got replaced through this whole installation was the swaybar itself...still using the p5 endlinks as well...works fine and the swaybar is actually facing upwards past parallel due to the shorter endlinks...no clunks, thumps, or squeaks...

edit: the downward-pointing swaybar was due to the car being on jacks...nvm my stupidity on that...

[wannabe]

im gonna try to get mine in this weekend, got a list of things to do, gotta repaint my calipers, rotate my tires, change my oil and filter, new pcv valve, depending on when i get my header that may need to be installed, and this sway bar

im gonna try the straight bar swap, and i'll let you know how it goes for me.

[dmitrik4]

here's what i did on my ES.

new:
MSP bar
MSP endlinks

re-used:
ES bushings
ES horseshoe brackets

it takes a little bit of finesse to get the horseshoes back on the car over the larger bar, but it'll work if you install the bolts first, then put the other end of the horseshoe over the stud. i would recommend greasing the bushings before you put them on the new bar...i didn't and it's begun to squeak a little bit. i don't know if this will work the same on the p5.

[FunkyBuddha]

Mazda has upgraded the bushings w/ teflon lined ones. I don't know if you got those but they are supposed to stop the squeaking

[wannabe]

he just said he used the ES bushings, so im assuming that means that no, he didnt get the upgraded ones....(doh)

[wannabe]

alright, so i got my sway bar on, but i think i may have a problem...the legs of the sway bar are pointing down...but thats the only way it would fit...is this a problem?

[fLyPiNoY7]

how far downward are they pointing?...the only way that they will be pointing down is if u looked at the bar while the car was on jacks...once u put the car back on its rear tires, it should face parallel if your using the mp3/msp endlinks...at least thats how its setup on mine...

[dmitrik4]

nope, no upgraded bushings. :(

mine still points down a little bit...not too much tho. i think it would be parallel to the ground if i had used the AWR mounting brackets.

[wannabe]

if u looked at the bar while the car was on jacks...once u put the car back on its rear tires, it should face parallel if your using the mp3/msp endlinks...


thats exactly what happened...i went back out and looked, and its fine now.. (doh)

[tgromer]

I took a the RB bar off of a 2003 Mazda Speed Protege. Install it on my 2002 MP5 with every thing off of the Speed. The only thing i used was my end links. So far i have not had any problems to speak of. The bar really made a big differnce.

[Brian MP5T]

Subscrizzle

[garretts77]

I took a the RB bar off of a 2003 Mazda Speed Protege. Install it on my 2002 MP5 with every thing off of the Speed. The only thing i used was my end links. So far i have not had any problems to speak of. The bar really made a big differnce.
I originally was using the P5 endlinks, but I believe them to be too short. I ran it for about a week with no problems, but then one day I hit a bump on the freeway and heard a clunk. I figured it was the "klunk" that I brought over from the MSP. But when I looked under the car, the sway bar had rotated around its axis and was pointed towards the front of the car. I jacked up the car and rotated it back, but it happened again a day or two later. FunkyBuddah had the same issue.

I recently got the AWR endlinks and made them about 2 inches longer than stock. Seems to be fine now. With the car on a level ground, the sway bar is slightly down from parallel to the ground. Like 5-10 degrees. It handles fantastically...

Also now I notice when I am pulling into a driveway with a pretty steep angle, the rear is so stiff that it will lift a wheel off of the ground when hit at an angle.

[Brian MP5T]

I originally was using the P5 endlinks,
They are supposed to be a one install deal. Once used the Mazda guys throw the stockies out and replace them.

[AznXstazy]

hey si the black thing suppose to b that close to the bushins? mien r like 2 inchs from the bushins

[garretts77]

hey si the black thing suppose to b that close to the bushins? mien r like 2 inchs from the bushins
???

[MIT]

Hi,

Do you mean the MSP sway bar, brackets, bushings and endlinks will all fit into P5? Please help on this.

Thx.


Ok to clarify this is what you need if you don't go AWR

MSP racing beat sway bar
MSP horshoe brackets
MSP teflon lined bushings (eliminates squeaking)


Oh..that bar rotating to the front thing, that just happened to me. Be careful guys. I was going into my underground parkade when it happened

[FunkyBuddha]

I originally was using the P5 endlinks, but I believe them to be too short. I ran it for about a week with no problems, but then one day I hit a bump on the freeway and heard a clunk. I figured it was the "klunk" that I brought over from the MSP. But when I looked under the car, the sway bar had rotated around its axis and was pointed towards the front of the car. I jacked up the car and rotated it back, but it happened again a day or two later. FunkyBuddah had the same issue.

I recently got the AWR endlinks and made them about 2 inches longer than stock. Seems to be fine now. With the car on a level ground, the sway bar is slightly down from parallel to the ground. Like 5-10 degrees. It handles fantastically...

Also now I notice when I am pulling into a driveway with a pretty steep angle, the rear is so stiff that it will lift a wheel off of the ground when hit at an angle.

Taht's exactly what happened to me. The bar rotated forward 180 degrees w/ the p5 endlinks. Got the AWR endlinks and I'm running my bar parallel to the ground. No problems.

That wheel lift thing is cool to look at from the outside LOL. I love it!!

[wannabe]

my bushings are starting to clunk when i hit bumps (we have nasty speed bumps in our parking lot) so i think i may need to go with the AWR bushings afterall....but the msp ones worked fine for a few months....

[c_altland]

Can some one give a run down of all the stuff needed to do this I am looking a doing this mod and need to know what all I need to make it work on my 01 mazda protege es 2.o Any help would be great thanks (cool)

[garretts77]

Can some one give a run down of all the stuff needed to do this I am looking a doing this mod and need to know what all I need to make it work on my 01 mazda protege es 2.o Any help would be great thanks (cool)
The how-to is what you need, with the addition of some longer endlinks. Either MSP endlinks, or some aftermarket ones. Personally I have the AWR endlinks and they are great, but cost $65. There is another thread going around where the guy is offering $35 for endlinks, but I couldn't speak personally about the quality.

[protege02]

so if im going awr, i need to buy the endlinks and i can use the other parts that are already on my es or i have to buy more parts? thanks for the info and reading.

[garretts77]

so if im going awr, i need to buy the endlinks and i can use the other parts that are already on my es or i have to buy more parts? thanks for the info and reading.
Here are two options:

option 1
AWR rear sway bar setup. Comes with brackets, endlinks, sway bar, bushings. This should be everything that you need to go from stock to an upgraded sway bar. Check www.awrracing.com (http://www.awrracing.com/) for prices and further info.

option 2
Piece together a setup similar to the MSP rear sways. This would be an upgrade for non-MP3/MSP cars only. I chose this route because I got a good deal on a rear bar from a wrecked MSP. Pieces needed are listed in the first post:

First things first. What you will need:
Racing beat rear sway bar
AWR brackets
AWR Poly bushings (the ones that Tony at AWR sent to me were 19mm)
Socket wrench and 14mm socket
Lithium grease
Not pictured: 14mm box wrench, 5mm (I think) allen wrench

Will also need new endlinks, either MP3/MSP should work, or some adjustables like AWR will work. The P5 endlinks are too short.

[wannabe]

i actually just called a junk yard and got the msp bar with endlinks and bushings and everything for $40. then i just took off the old bar and endlinks and put the new one on. didnt get the AWR stuff (although i may in the somewhat near future just to alievate the clunking)

[protege02]

so, should i call awr and tell them that i need endlinks for a mazdaspeed protege sway bar and the other stuff. question: do i order the adjustable ones or do they custom make them because the mazdaspeed sway bar is a 20mm bar and not a 18 or 21.5 as awr bar is?

[BlueWolfCry]

the endlinks work for all sizes
so, should i call awr and tell them that i need endlinks for a mazdaspeed protege sway bar and the other stuff. question: do i order the adjustable ones or do they custom make them because the mazdaspeed sway bar is a 20mm bar and not a 18 or 21.5 as awr bar is?

[protege02]

thats what i thought, thanks for the verifing

[Prodigy]

I have an LX sedan.... and a RacingBeat sway-bar..
--Is there a difference between the LX and the MP3/MSP rear end-links? (can I re-use mine?)
--Would I only need the AWR 20mm bushings? (I dont want to bore out the stock ones)
--...are the awr bushings compatible with the stock LX brackets? or would I HAVE to buy the AWR brackets?
Thanks

[garretts77]

I have an LX sedan.... and a RacingBeat sway-bar..
--Is there a difference between the LX and the MP3/MSP rear end-links? (can I re-use mine?)
--Would I only need the AWR 20mm bushings? (I dont want to bore out the stock ones)
--...are the awr bushings compatible with the stock LX brackets? or would I HAVE to buy the AWR brackets?
Thanks

-endlinks.... I don't know. I would assume they are the same, but I am not sure...

-bushings... AWR doesn't make a 20mm (Or they didn't when I did mine). They make a 19mm and a 21.5mm. I bought the 19mm and opened them up slightly with a dremel. If you put them on without boring the opening, it doesn't fit right...

-brackets... The AWR bushings should fit inside the LX horseshoe brackets. They did on the P5. If the LX are the same as the P5, then yes. But you will need the AWR mounting brackets. The mounting brackets mount to the subframe, and the horseshoe brackets mount to the AWR brackets...

hope this helps...

[Prodigy]

-endlinks.... I don't know. I would assume they are the same, but I am not sure...

-bushings... AWR doesn't make a 20mm (Or they didn't when I did mine). They make a 19mm and a 21.5mm. I bought the 19mm and opened them up slightly with a dremel. If you put them on without boring the opening, it doesn't fit right...

-brackets... The AWR bushings should fit inside the LX horseshoe brackets. They did on the P5. If the LX are the same as the P5, then yes. But you will need the AWR mounting brackets. The mounting brackets mount to the subframe, and the horseshoe brackets mount to the AWR brackets...

hope this helps...

The bold sentence confirmed everything.
AWR makes a 20mm bushing now. :)
Thanks man

[garretts77]

Sweet. Good luck. It was probably my favorite mod...

[Prodigy]

ehh... I got my mazdaspeed racingbeat exhaust installed yesterday...
and I noticed that my endlinks look about an inch shorter than my friend's msp...

meh, this sucks.. and I already ordered the 20mm bushings.. and they overcharge on shipping.

[Prodigy]

For future reference, AWR 20mm bushings do NOT fit the stock LX brackets.
I ended up getting MSP endlinks and boring out my stock bushings.
I just need to get some ES/P5 brackets..

[protege02]

this might be a stupid question, but do i have to take the rear wheels off for this install? if i dont, im definitely going to install this tomorrow after work.

[Prodigy]

nope.. just get those damn endlink nuts off (spray em with wd-40 now)
bring it to NP if you dont have time after work.. I'll toss it on for you in no time.

[garretts77]

Not a stupid question and you do not have to take the wheels off... See above response...

[dbzeag]

If I get the AWR 21.5mm sway bar kit (for my LX 2.0), do I need a new subframe?

I have purchased a set of KSport coilovers that should have the welded tab I need to attach the end links. Would a MSP subframe work then?

[macklum]

If I get the AWR 21.5mm sway bar kit (for my LX 2.0), do I need a new subframe? NO

I have purchased a set of KSport coilovers that should have the welded tab I need to attach the end links. Would a MSP subframe work then? You dont need the subframe , The only difference between the two is where the sway bar bolts to . The AWR bar uses bolcks to allow you to use the LX rear subframe

[dbzeag]

You dont need the subframe , The only difference between the two is where the sway bar bolts to . The AWR bar uses bolcks to allow you to use the LX rear subframe
Excellent! thanks very much.

[awsmp5]

has anyone heard anything about the intrax swaybar kit?
http://www.apexr1.com/apexr1/inswbarkimp5.html
from the picture looks like it comes with the brackets and all that good stuff...?

[awsmp5]

no???

[garretts77]

I haven't heard of it. But that isn't really the point of the thread...

[U-Turn]

Hi, I was wondering if the "Mazdaspeed Protege 4 point rear chassis brace" of cp racing (http://www.cpracing.ca/) was doing the same thing as the rear sway bar or if it would be good to have the 2.
Thanks!

[U-Turn]

has anyone heard anything about the intrax swaybar kit?
http://www.apexr1.com/apexr1/inswbarkimp5.html
from the picture looks like it comes with the brackets and all that good stuff...?

What is the size of that bar, would it fit on a protege 3rd gen and would it worth the cost? :P I'm learning the more I can rigth now, a bit new to modifications. :P

[InFeXIoN]

i have a 03 DX, so if i have the rb bar, awr bushings, msp horshoes and mp3 endlinks im set rite?

[Prodigy]

i have a 03 DX, so if i have the rb bar, awr bushings, msp horshoes and mp3 endlinks im set rite?

yep, that'll work.
I have the same set-up... I'm just waiting on a set of P5 horseshoes from my friend. The awr bushings are just lying around.

Make sure that you get the 20mm AWR bushings.

[InFeXIoN]

yep, that'll work.
I have the same set-up... I'm just waiting on a set of P5 horseshoes from my friend. The awr bushings are just lying around.

Make sure that you get the 20mm AWR bushings.

thanks man thats what i needed to hear. When i called awr the guy i talked to said to get the 19mm's and just open them up and that will work so that is what he sent me.

[InFeXIoN]

Yea all i used were msp brackets, mp3 bushings, and mp3 endlinks and everything was fine, the awr's didnt fit. and rolled my fenders while i was there.

[awsmp5]

fuck... the welded bolt inside the black rear frame came unwelded and now i have a loose sway bar mount bolt... can anyone give me any advice? should i just go to mazda and have them cut it off and give me a new bolt so i can install my freakin sway bar?

[InFeXIoN]

the sub frame came loose?

[macklum]

fuck... the welded bolt inside the black rear frame came unwelded and now i have a loose sway bar mount bolt... can anyone give me any advice? should i just go to mazda and have them cut it off and give me a new bolt so i can install my freakin sway bar? If you can remove the sway bar and get the bolt rewelded . The other option if you cant get the nut off the bolt is to cut it off and weld in a new bolt . If you have to you can drill a hole on the angle part of the sub frame with a 1" hole saw , then you ccan get at the bolt head to undo the bolt to remove the bar . then you should have an easier time weld in the bolt , then weld the disc that you cut out back in .

[awsmp5]

thanks for ur concern... i don't know i got so pissed off. i was so happy i got that sway bar and now im just perplexed as to what the hell i should do

sub frame didn't come off

the sway bar mounting point on it broke and is dangling inside
damn it i'm broke...
ok i'll stop whining and get it fixed

[dharman]

Well what should have been an easy install took a while because half of the bolts didn't want to come off the endlinks. Yes I know about the allen key but that didn't make a difference. Finally after getting one half off it decided to lock up on me so I had to grab the old hack saw to cut it out. Installed my new MSP endlinks and bought some new bolts and threw it all together. If everything goes well it definetly won't take you long and what a difference it makes in cornering. I haven't even lowered my car yet and I can totally tell a difference.

[nautical2086]

how can you use the socket wrench and allen wrench at the same time? What is the advantage of using the awr over the stockers?

[Huascar82]

use the socket wrench with an adapter so it takes the necessary allen key, and use a regular wrench to hold down the nut while you turn the bolt with the allen key/socket wrench combo.

[nautical2086]

ohh, so you really just want to move the nut with the allen key I guess then right?

[Huascar82]

you got it bob :) << Full House reference

[2002yellowpro5]

stupid question why do u need the brackets to offset the swaybar as i just put min on strait to the car with out the bracket.

[digitalricepape]

sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but does anyone know if the msp horseshoe brackets will mount directly on the p5 subframe?

[macklum]

sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but does anyone know if the msp horseshoe brackets will mount directly on the p5 subframe?no they wont ,you need to use the stock 5 brackets and open the stock 5 bushings to fit the msp rear sway bar

[digitalricepape]

after the install w/ the awr bushings and brackets has anyone been having the "clunk" issue?

[macklum]

after the install w/ the awr bushings and brackets has anyone been having the "clunk" issue?I did ,I ending up getting spacer blocks from AWR ,I still have a set some were in the garage

[digitalricepape]

did that help, and i'm guessing the awr bushings and brackets don't stopthe "clunk" eh?

[macklum]

did that help, and i'm guessing the awr bushings and brackets don't stopthe "clunk" eh?|Yes it helped but I ended up getting the clunk fix brackets that relocate the mounting point to a more outboard position ,they dont allow the bar to twist

[Not Jo3L]

Installed the racing beat rear sway bar on my ES...worked flawlessly with my stock endlinks. Used some custom bushings and brackets my friend made for me. So far so good. The only thing I have to worry about is the stock tab breaking off the struts.

[rustychops41]

The only thing I have to worry about is the stock tab breaking off the struts.[/QUOTE]

Save up now for some struts with a beefier tab. I thought mine were fine, and they were for many months, then one day (on the freeway of all places, straight and level) a new horrid noise appeared. My guess is they were gradually weakening, and one day . . . . Poof!

[Not Jo3L]

yeah..i think its purely luck if they break or not

some guy on toprotege went through a full season of autox on stock struts and they didnt even snap the tabs.

[wildo]

I replaced my stock P5 rear crossmember with a crossmember from an MSP today, and also added a racingbeat rear sway bar. I wanted to post a couple tips and observations from my experience.




These are not intended to be in any sort of order...

1) From a side-by-side comparison today (sorry, I didn't take pics of this) the MSP and P5 rear crossmembers are practically the exact same. There are only two differences that I could find:

a) The swaybar mount locations are reenforced

b) Important Note!! The MSP rear crossmember does NOT have the bolt sticking out of the top-most swaybar mount location. The P5 horseshoe bracket is held on by a nut at the top, and bolt at the bottom. The MSP crossmember uses a bolt in both locations. If you switch out your crossmember, you will need to purchase two extra bolts for this reason. I am getting the bolts tomorrow, and will post the bolt size at that point...

2) One can replace the crossmember without air tools, I did it today. Yes, it would go much faster with them, but not all of us have such luxuries.

3) I've read in posts elsewhere that say you can not unbolt the lateral link bolts until the crossmember is totally unbolted (hence the reason most say that air tools are needed). I found this to be not true. I was able to get a wrench on the outsides of the crossmember, and a 1/2" drive ratchet on the inner part of the bolt. I did have to use a small piece of pipe for added torque. My 24" breaker bar was just a bit too long. An 18" breaker would be perfect.

4) I was majorly concerned about screwing up my camber by removing the lateral link cam bolts. Don't be too concerned about this. As it were, all you need to do is mark the position of the nut in relation to the "egg shaped" washer. The washer also has a small notch in it. This notch is also important to be marked. When you take it apart, just note the position of the notch (mine was straight up) and when you tighten the bolt, make sure the notch is in the same position. When you take it apart, you will easily be able to see how it works...

5) Not using air tools, you run more of a risk breaking off bolts from putting long stresses on them. Air tools put short bursts of torque on bolts, which is a better way about it... Anyway, there is a small stamped plate that connects the top of the crossmember to the floor of the trunk. There are two bolts that bolt the crossmember to this plate. I broke off one when removing it. This plate is easily removed from the 3 12mm bolts that go into the floor of the car. I was able to drill out the broken bolt and replace it. This bolt is a M8-1.25 x 20 bolt. I got one from Lowes...

6) Of course, the damn endlinks are the hardest part of the whole process. I soaked them (as well as all bolts in the project) in PB Blaster the night before and the morning of, and still, I had trouble with the endlinks. When taking off the passenger side, I ended up stripping the nut. So I looked into alternative ways of removing the nut. In the attached pictures, pictures 1 and 2 show that a 5" pair of vise grips can just clear the rubber boot and grab the flat part of the bolt behind the sway bar. Then, a large pair of vice grips (I think mine are a 10" pair) can grab the nut and hopefully get it off. I let the 5" vise grips bottom out against the lateral link so that it couldn't turn. This method worked out well and with some patience and a bit of luck, you can get the nut off. On the passenger side, it came off with out damaging the rubber seal. On the driver's side, I wasn't so lucky- but the damage to the rubber boot was not that bad. Pic 4 shows my success.

7) Most likely, you will end up stripping the endlink nuts getting them off. You can get replacements at Lowes. The size is M10-1.25. I also bought M10 washers to put on there since the original is a flare nut.

8) If you are putting on a racingbeat swaybar, then you probably were smart enough to order 20mm urethane bushings from AWR. You should note, however, that the stock P5 horseshoe brackets will NOT fit over these bushings. A good option is to get the AWR spacer blocks (at an outrageous $35 each) plus AWR horseshoe brackets (I assume they sell these). ...Or you can take the frugal route and make your own horseshoe brackets out of aluminum or steel flat stock from Lowes. I choose aluminum because it is so much easier to bend into proper shapes. I honestly don't know what size I bought, but it most likely was 1" x 1/8" x 3'. I just took one of the bushings with me and eyeballed which width would fit best. Note: If you choose this route and make your own, be sure to measure off of the MSP crossmember, not the P5 one. I made this mistake, but fortunately the 3' of stock was enough for two sets of brackets- the first which were too small, and the second which fit nicely. I didn't take pics of these, but I will take some tomorrow.

9) Put some anti-seize on the endlinks so that the next time you need to take them off, it isn't such a nightmare...


That's about all I can think of right now. Hopefully this helps you guys if you run into any of these situations... I'll post the bolt size for the swaybar brackets tomorrow as well as picks of the custom brackets.

[wildo]

As promised, the bolt size for the sway bar brackets is M10-1.25 and I used a size of 25mm long. The stock is probably around 20mm, but I wanted to have enough room for a washer.

Attached are pics of the custom bracket- also as promised...

[KZL_99ES]

this thread helped me soooooooo much thank you everyone!!!

~Kevin

[Not Jo3L]

Today I looked under my car to see one of the DIY horseshoe brackets I had snapped and is giving an awful clunk

[KZL_99ES]

your car is telling you to upgrade...lol

[Not Jo3L]

lol I will be working on it Thursday..hopefully I get it figured out

[Dparks7]

ok i tried to get mine on and i was taking the brakcets out of the car and one of the nuts inside the cross member and now it just twists any thing i can do?

[R-X-R]

seriously, does this really make any difference in cornering?

[macklum]

seriously, does this really make any difference in cornering?in one word YES

[R-X-R]

lol.,.,i was checking another forum where how to change motor mount and thought of looking this thread too.,.,guess wut..,u were there too.,.,jeez.,,.

[Circuit]

So does the MSP bar sit below the lateral links? The P5 bar sits above them, and since my car is so low, the RSB is resting on the lateral links and makes noises when I go up driveways.

[o.g.sk8er]

well, on my car the RB sway bar using AWR adjustable end links, sits in between the lateral links. you want me to take some pics tonight when I get home?

[Circuit]

well, on my car the RB sway bar using AWR adjustable end links, sits in between the lateral links. you want me to take some pis tonight when I get home?

Yeah dude if you could. My bar is sitting on the bottom link (notcool)

[o.g.sk8er]

wow...thats not good! my awr 21.5 bar did the same thing, only it was under the lower lateral link.

have a look at these pics. not the greatest, but you get the idea.

notice how the endlink bolts are straight and not all cock-eyed. they need to be as relaxed as possible when installed. this is why many people complain about noises and poor performance. I have seen many people here with the bolts at such a weird angle, its no doubt there will be problems. lol
any binding of any kind will result in bending the link itself. trust me, I have a box of bent up links in my garage. lol
measure and install one side at a time and you shouldnt have any trouble.

ok enough...here are the pics...(thumb)

http://www.msprotege.com/members/o.g.sk8er/RSRSB%20001.jpghttp://www.msprotege.com/members/o.g.sk8er/RSRSB%20002.jpghttp://www.msprotege.com/members/o.g.sk8er/RSRSB%20003.jpg

[azmp5]

I need msp end links with the racing beat bar , correct?

[Matt V]

I installed an RB bar today and this DIY was very helpful. I used the RB bar with MSP endlinks, and used the P5 brackets/bushings. I hollowed out the factory P5 bushings so that the RB bar would fit more comfortably, and I made the gap bigger on the factory brackets to make up for the bushings larger size. Works fantastically and I don't have any clunking.

[KZL_99ES]

speaking of clucking, how do you get rid of it?

[MonctonP5]

This is a great write-up, but how about the front sway bar??

[shane02pro5]

Front is a much much bigger job and many will say its not worth the gain

[MonctonP5]

It's a matter of opinion I know, but I was looking to get the full setup. I know I'm gonna have to buy additional hardware to make it work, but I've got a weekend booked for this, full brake swap, short shifter and exhaust...so time and effort are not factors in my book...lol.

[R-X-R]

people where do u get that black rubber gromet that goes on the end of the endlink?

[juankordonez]

[B]sorry guys but I dont know what to do... i am a little confused...

I have a protege5 with stock suspension. I already got tokico blues struts, tein s-tech springs and I have both (Front and rear) racing beat sway bars with MSP bushings (20mm) and MSP horseshoes brackets(20mm), but not any endlinks.

The car probably is gonna drop about 1.8 inch with my tein springs.... So my questions are:

1) Do the MSP brackets will bolt in my P5 crossmember?
2) If they do...What would be the right endlink? MSP or P5 or something else? it suppose to be longer or shorter having a lowered suspension? can anyone tell me the size?

[peter330]

Hey guys

I've read this thread from beginning to end and just want to clear up some things before I attempt to do this.

I have a 2001 Protege ES

Here's what I think I need
-RB Rear sway bar
-MSP End links
-ES bushings
-ES brackets

I bought the bar and was told the endlinks were MSP links but I wanted to be sure
The links measure out to be 6-6.5 inches. Are these the right links?
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/peter3301/IMG_0079.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/peter3301/IMG_0078.jpg

I've read using the stock ES bushings opened up with the stock ES brackets is the way to go however I have Energy poly bushings that came with the bar and are the exact same size diameter wise but are longer in width. The brackets are flat and wont bolt properly to the ES. Can I use the thinner ES brackets on these bushings or would that leave too much play for it move around? This is what I mean. Also the energy bushings do not seem snug to the point that it takes little effort to spin the bushing on the bar, should it be able to do that?
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/peter3301/IMG_0075.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/peter3301/IMG_0076.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/peter3301/IMG_0077.jpg

Hope someone can add some insight to this

[Circuit]

Just bend the bracket ends so it bolts down. To keep the bar from sliding back and forth, there should be two metal straps on the bar to prevent any lateral movement.

[peter330]

So would you all recommend the poly bushings or the ES OEM ones? How bout the length on the MSP end links?

[njaremka]

if the endlinks are only 6.5 inches long, that seems short. with the bar bolted to the subframe, and the endlinks bolted to the strut and bar, the sway bar should be roughly parallel to the ground. if the links are too short, the bar will flip and cause all sorts of crazy sh!t.

[peter330]

K well that messes me up was planning to swap the bars out this weekend, anyone have MSP rear end links for sale or knows where to get them for cheap?

[njaremka]

dealer would be the best place to go to make sure you get the right links.

[bikingpro5]

K well that messes me up was planning to swap the bars out this weekend, anyone have MSP rear end links for sale or knows where to get them for cheap?

contact MOSI through Toprotege, they can get you the proper length you need and are local to you.