Ford Probe GT V6 swap??

[Autox MSP]

I was installing my clutch cable the other day with some help from some club members. One of them pointed out that the tranny on our cars looks identical to the probe GT he owned. Way the clutch line is and also the bleeder is located. I'm thinking would a 2.5L v6 from the probe/mx6 be possible drop in???
Those motors are smooth, powerful and one of the best sounding v6.

Anyone know if they could be swapped easliy like honda motors?

[alexlitov]

Your MSP is probably making more power than that V6 engine...

[jersey_emt]

I highly doubt it, plus you'd need a new ECU.

[Autox MSP]

i know it would need a new ecu and a wiring harness. I would like to know if the mounts are the same.

The probe GT makes 170hp from a 2.5L v6. Its more powerful then the msp. Besides the powertrain the the msp sucks.

[DZnutz]

I was installing my clutch cable the other day with some help from some club members. One of them pointed out that the tranny on our cars looks identical to the probe GT he owned. Way the clutch line is and also the bleeder is located. I'm thinking would a 2.5L v6 from the probe/mx6 be possible drop in???
Those motors are smooth, powerful and one of the best sounding v6.

Anyone know if they could be swapped easliy like honda motors?
let me be the first to say... YOUR AN IDIOT!!!

[Autox MSP]

let me be the first to say... YOUR AN IDIOT!!!I'm probably not the first to say this but your an asshole.

[azian6er]

you would lose power unless you turbo it. i have an mx-6 LS with the v6 and it does sound mean as hell with the borla exhaust and staight pipe but it isnt as powerful as my speed.

-B

[jersey_emt]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by DZnutz
let me be the first to say... YOUR AN IDIOT!!! </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I'm probably not the first to say this but your an asshole.<!-- / message -->

Come on guys.....end it now.

[Paul Ruebens]

how is a 170hp MX6 more powerful than a 170hp MSP?? Can someone explain this logic to me?

[azian6er]

how is a 170hp MX6 more powerful than a 170hp MSP?? Can someone explain this logic to me?


what?

[Stormtrooper77]

Weren't they more like 164?

[jersey_emt]

how is a 170hp MX6 more powerful than a 170hp MSP?? Can someone explain this logic to me?
Most likely - Weight.

[Autox MSP]

how is a 170hp MX6 more powerful than a 170hp MSP?? Can someone explain this logic to me?
It has more power though out the rpms, instant response only a N/A motor can have, smooth power delievery with out hickups of the MSP FS, Lighter flywheel. Few other things.

[azian6er]

the mx6 feels stronger but is not as fast as the msp. it has to do with torque doen low on the mx6. also it revs to 7K so it has an extra 500 rpms over the msp.

I drive both on a daily basis and i like both a lot. Mx6 feels strong and torquey but not as fast as the msp. Handling is no comparison. msp hands down.

i have hotshot headers, fidanza flywheel straight through cat and borla exhaust on my mx6 and it still feels slower then my msp but feels stronger down low.

no way any non blown mx6 is faster than an msp at 10 psi. There was one all motor mx6 who was running 13.5 in the 1/4 but it had tons of mods and weighed nothing.

-B

[Autox MSP]

Try running the stock FS motor at 10psi for long, You'll blow your piston seals in about 10 to 20k miles. Mazda did nothing to the motor to turbocharge it.

[DSMConvert]

not sure on the compatability...but if you're going to swap a probe v6(kl03) you might as well just get teh japanese version(klze) which makes 200hp...these engines are direct swaps for 2g GTs....a klze in a stock probe with just exhaust and intake will run around a 14.7ish...and I believe the msp is a little lighter...i would say its not worth the trouble though...the klze is gonna run around 1100 and more than likely isnt a direct swap...but the ze is def a good engine...I've seen/run numerous n/a and a few turbos that were exceptionally fast...for more information on the swap Id suggest going to probetalk.com or mx6.com...both cars had the same v6 engine and its a fairly common swap among v6 owners...infact our buddies at corksport can get the engines..though they are a little pricey...now that I think about it you could probably directly swap a fsze(jap version of our engines utilizes VRIS) 4cyl engine into our cars which puts out 170hp n/a and can handle up to 9psi on the stock internals...if you're serious let me know im a walking encyclopedia when it comes to mx6 4cyls whether its the fsze or the fs03 with a custom turbo setup...

[azian6er]

yeah i have to aggree. i have beat the living piss out of my mx6 and there have been no serious engine problems, only regular maintenace stuff. and i drive to redline very often when i drive the mx6.

motor is very strong.

-B

[jersey_emt]

Try running the stock FS motor at 10psi for long, You'll blow your piston seals in about 10 to 20k miles. Mazda did nothing to the motor to turbocharge it.
Dozens of people are running 10+ psi on the stock internals for longer than that with no problems whatsoever.

[Autox MSP]

You might think theres no problems, but get a oil catch can and start seeing how fast it fills up from all the blowby.

[Titanium]

Yes the V6 engine would fit. The mounting locations are the same. It would not be a job for the weak though. Alot of stuff would have to be swapped. I wouldnt do it. I do love the silky smooth Mazda KL series engines though! I had a 93 Probe but it wasnt a GT. Good old FS 2.0L, you would have thought I would learned but all in all the 2.0L was good to me. Now its sitting waiting for me to pull the jspec cam and flywheel out and then it can be picked up to the grave yard.:( Those parts will make there way into the MSP someday. I will always love the MX-6 and Probe and one day I will get another but this time it will be a V6 model. The guy with the all motor MX-6 that was in the 13 secs wrecked it and now it's gone. One car that I would mine get instead would be the MX-3 and either do a KL03 or even a KLZE swap on it. I those are stick when you do a 2.5L swap on them! Damn it I need a project car!!!!

[N1XRR]

I was installing my clutch cable the other day with some help from some club members. One of them pointed out that the tranny on our cars looks identical to the probe GT he owned. Way the clutch line is and also the bleeder is located. I'm thinking would a 2.5L v6 from the probe/mx6 be possible drop in???
Those motors are smooth, powerful and one of the best sounding v6.

Anyone know if they could be swapped easliy like honda motors?
Clutch cable? On an MSP? I don't know about yours, but mine is hydraulic!

[Titanium]

Clutch cable? On an MSP? I don't know about yours, but mine is hydraulic!
Okay smart arse! The damn clutch line!

[Autox MSP]

clutch line, my mistake.

[N1XRR]

Phew...I was about to run out to the car JUST to make sure.

[DSMConvert]

hmm i'll vouch for the not being able to run above 10psi...well on higher mileage fs03 engines anyways...out of the 4 people and I that turboed our cars around the same time all of them popped within 2K miles when uping the boost to 10+psi...now at 8psi mine ran forever, never had blowby never had hesitation, never had any problems period...well except overheating but that was a totally unrelated issue...now please keep in mind this statement only applies to fs03 series engines with 90+k in the 93-96mx6/probe cars. Also the turbos were for the most part t3/t4 which is significantly larger and flows tons more air @10psi than wussy t25s and 14bs, which seem to be the most prevalent turbo for custom projects...moving on..yeah Id def do an mx3 project...half the weight and the same hp engine....turboed KLZE in an mx3...drool watch out sti....I know my friend with a klze swap and turbo at 6psi put little over 250whp and ran the quarter in 13.4ish..its been awhile so I cant remember the exact time, but I remember my jaw dropping and my car drooling....

[mspdfreak]

It has more power though out the rpms, instant response only a N/A motor can have, smooth power delievery with out hickups of the MSP FS, Lighter flywheel. Few other things.Okay, I'll bite. How much lighter is this flywheel? And if it's lighter, doesn't that mean it's weaker? (unless it's made from som "area-51 material".

[PimpDaddyJ]

My friend swapped the j-spec 2.5 in his old protoge along with a cold air intake and was doing mid to high 13's, and thats with a different brand of tire on every wheel. KLZE is nice

[KyRaceFan]

I think today is Bad idea Wednesday.

[Ljspeed]

hmm i'll vouch for the not being able to run above 10psi...well on higher mileage fs03 engines anyways...out of the 4 people and I that turboed our cars around the same time all of them popped within 2K miles when uping the boost to 10+psi...now at 8psi mine ran forever, never had blowby never had hesitation, never had any problems period...well except overheating but that was a totally unrelated issue...now please keep in mind this statement only applies to fs03 series engines with 90+k in the 93-96mx6/probe cars. Also the turbos were for the most part t3/t4 which is significantly larger and flows tons more air @10psi than wussy t25s and 14bs, which seem to be the most prevalent turbo for custom projects...moving on..yeah Id def do an mx3 project...half the weight and the same hp engine....turboed KLZE in an mx3...drool watch out sti....I know my friend with a klze swap and turbo at 6psi put little over 250whp and ran the quarter in 13.4ish..its been awhile so I cant remember the exact time, but I remember my jaw dropping and my car drooling....
Well said... Damn all that is so true.... when they made the prototype RM kit on my '95 FS engine, of course it was all about the T3/T4 hybrid pushing a shitload of air. I have popped a motor past 8psi and blown a head gasket the second time around on the Probe. But that was a couple years back, those 2.0 Probetalk guys are starting to get the Apexi working with bigger injectors which is keeping them safer, along with a high flow Walbro pump and other electronics. I was tired of taking the car apart and didnt want to fork out 3k a couple of years ago for a TEC III like Ric at Racingmazda wanted to do. SO thats when I got my Speed!(headbang)

But anyways back to the original question for Autox MSP on his first post. The tranny of a V6 Probe will not bolt up, its a different bell housing pattern. I beleive you said your friend said the trannies look the same, well they may look the same, but it wont bolt up. And a KL series engine swap on a Protege.....way too much work, not worth it IMHO

[Titanium]

Hey Lj doesnt this kinda remind you of Probetalk 2.0L performance section. Everyone wanted to know how hard would it be to swap a KL in their base or se.

[Ljspeed]

Hey Lj doesnt this kinda remind you of Probetalk 2.0L performance section. Everyone wanted to know how hard would it be to swap a KL in their base or se.
LOL.... it sure does

[DSMConvert]

ahh the good ole days of probetalk and mx6.com....i miss my 6......hmm on the injectors note I just used stock dsm injectors and tuned it down with the SAFC...worked great for me...everyone was scared back in the day to experiment....

[Dr.Sound]

i have a friend ruinning a 4 cyl MX-6 that is turboed.
i have a video of him smoking my MSP twice......he was pushing 19-20psi.......

[low_psi]

worseideaevarandyetmanypeoplethinkit

[UltimaGT]

alas I miss my 95 PGT, I still think probetalk has better conversation... :P


note: any PGT/mx6 owners notice instantly that the tranny was damn near the same as an MSP...

[DSMConvert]

mx3 try using spaces i cant figure out what you're trying to say here....

[kwiktsi]

Lol- if anyone wants one, I have a 2.5 from a 96 PGT with around 90k on it for sale :). It ran when I pulled it and has been sitting in my storage unit for 2 years now. I have had it on probetalk several times and keep pulling it because people say they are coming for it, but then never show up :(.

Joe


mx3 try using spaces i cant figure out what you're trying to say here....

[cantstopklze]

you guys seem to now ur mazdas, is it postible if i get a mx3 v6 donnor subframe exs. that i would be able to swap it inot a protege from 90-95?

[Shane5425]

very old post, it has been done, google v6 protege its the KL v6 motor from the 626

[xxxmonoxidechil]

^

mx6/probe/626/and millenia in america alone

definietly not just the 626.

[cantstopklze]

well i got this as info to be able to do it
You don't need to replace the cross member it's the same.
you'll need the trany,axels,2 lower suspension A arm,booster and master cylinder, engine harness and cpu from the 1.8L V6.air flow meeter, cluster.
If you don't want to have the front to low you could take the shock from the precidia V6 too they are 1/2 inch higher.

[xxxmonoxidechil]

you should be able to use your master cyl id assume.

you want the 1.8 ecu out of the mx3, and the probe 2.5 air flow meter.

also look into the curved neck millinia intake manifold to have enough clearence.

[cantstopklze]

awsome man thanxs this is my first car ,so im going wild on this one lol all my friends have hondas and volks im fed up of all there talk so im going for somthing new , i just hope it works out,
i also herd the the striaght neck klze is better ,is that treu

[xxxmonoxidechil]

^

not at all. just depends on your application

and you would not be able to even use a straight neck ZE intake mani, your throttle body would be where your brake master cylinder is. thats why i said use the curved neck millinia manifold for clearence reasons.

[cantstopklze]

kk, thanxs man ,all check that shit out

[jeffmsp]

I traded my 94 MX6 LS V6 in for my mazdaspeed. I would never take that kl-03 over a fsdet. NEVER. Ive owned both, modded both, spent hundreds o thousands of KMs in both cars. Stock for stock the msp was considerably faster, handled 10 times better and actually had a back seat. Add $500-$1000 in mods to the msp and you are beating ANY n/a mx6. KL-03 sounds nice but is not impressive in any way. Pretty sure only the OBD1 kl-03 made 170, all obd2 were ~160HP.

The drivetrain in the msp is better. Strong axles and the lsd makes all the difference. KL-03 owners swap it into their transmissions.

The kl motor also has annoying problems like the noisy valve train. KL-03 motor are worth less then $500, if you really wanted to you can put them into 3rd gen proteges, seen it done with a ZE. Guy is in Quebec. and well im pretty sure someone has put a ZE into every generation 1990+ of escort/protege. A guy named mike from feoa had one in his 2nd gen EGT years ago, wasnt very hard.

Also, its been a while since ive cruised probetalk, but last time i did faster PGT was powered by FSDE.

[Titanium]

I traded my 94 MX6 LS V6 in for my mazdaspeed. I would never take that kl-03 over a fsdet. NEVER. Ive owned both, modded both, spent hundreds o thousands of KMs in both cars. Stock for stock the msp was considerably faster, handled 10 times better and actually had a back seat. Add $500-$1000 in mods to the msp and you are beating ANY n/a mx6. KL-03 sounds nice but is not impressive in any way. Pretty sure only the OBD1 kl-03 made 170, all obd2 were ~160HP.

The drivetrain in the msp is better. Strong axles and the lsd makes all the difference. KL-03 owners swap it into their transmissions.

The kl motor also has annoying problems like the noisy valve train. KL-03 motor are worth less then $500, if you really wanted to you can put them into 3rd gen proteges, seen it done with a ZE. Guy is in Quebec. and well im pretty sure someone has put a ZE into every generation 1990+ of escort/protege. A guy named mike from feoa had one in his 2nd gen EGT years ago, wasnt very hard.

Also, its been a while since ive cruised probetalk, but last time i did faster PGT was powered by FSDE.

I've had both a msp and a couple ford probes. The slowest of course was my fs powered probe. But after I put a little money into my probe gt I believe it was on par with my msp. My msp dynoed at 156 whp and my pgt put down 151whp. The only mods on my 93 pgt with over 100k on the clock was an intake, greddy catback, flywheel/clutch, motor mounts, and the rest of the mods were for handling. Remember that pgt/mx6 were the bench mark in most magenizes at the time of a fwd sport compact car. In 93 it was named motortrends car of the year. Anytime they would review a car in its class, they would always say how it compared to a pgt/mx6. I'm not taking away from the msp at all but now I have neither and if I had my choice of which car to have back in my driveway it would be hands done the pgt. It has mostly to do with power delivery. I love how the kl puts power to the ground.

Valuetrain- both and most all mazda cars in that time frame have the same hla problems. My FS powered probe had and it was taken care of with the right additive and proper oil changing and same went for my KL powered probe. My msp even made noises when it was oil change time.

Fast Probe on PT- Well I can't think of one fs probe on PT that ever impressed me. The fasted n/a's were in the low 15's and t/c fs's are few and far between. Now as for the KL's, there are at least two n/a powered pgt's in the 11-12 second or better times for the 1/4 mile. Believe there are some t/c KL's that have clipped off some 10 sec passes. But for me that is not the best thing about the car and not it's purpose in life. I love the handling and feel of the car.

One of the fastest pgt owners out there right now has now taken a 323 hatch and put a KLZE in it. I would love to drive that thing! He basically says that you need to get MX3 mounts, wiring harness, axles, and some other mx3 odds and ends. Most people's reaction is why wouldn't you do a bp swap and the answer was that the KLZE was a cheaper upgrade.

[xxxmonoxidechil]

the one thing no FS could ever compare to is the sweet sound of the KL. it still is one of the best sounding engines ive heard. and i like the basic design of the KL with its two piece block sandwich'ing the crank. very sturdy design.

of course currently mazda-wise, i own a F2, F2T, FE-DOHC, and a 2.3 dizi, but ive owned a KL, and two FS probe's in the past.

[sean22306]

I just sold my 97 probe GTS for my MSP. May actually be getting my old KL back since the guy who bought it already killed the motor. The KL does have a beautiful sound. Mine had a resonated testpipe with borla catback. Still one of the best sounding, most fun cars I have ever owned.

[jeffmsp]

the sound IS great, I can attest to that. I could just never see the benefit of swapping a kl into a msp other than if you really really liked the engine or something. I definately wasnt saying n/a 4 cyl probe could catch a v6 n/a, i was talking boosted probes. MX6.com has a bunch of boosted v6 owners too.

[winty87]

This is probably pretty dumb but would doing a complete 2.5 SVT Duratec motor and tranny swap be out of the question? The motor is puttin out 195 hp and weighs the same as an MSP.

[jeffmsp]

why not spend $1000 on a KLZE, same power less headaches

[xxxmonoxidechil]

i agree. it would be stupid to swap a KL into the MSP.


now, a KL swap in any other protege/protege5 is another story........ lol