Who has the fasted NA Protege?

[Gen1GT]

Ok, this is a sorry-assed thread, because asking who has the fastest NA Protege is like asking who has the fastest 486 computer. They're just not fast......yet. But who's running what in the 1/4?

I'm running 15.972
Another Gen 1 guy is running 15.8, but hopefully I'm gonna lay down a better time than that this weekend.

So who's running what? Don't tell me the fastest NA Protege is 15.8?

[I_Vtec]

Honestly I'm not sure what he runs in the 1/4. But I know Topher has a good bit of stuff done to his 5. We're trying to get to the strip here in the next couple of months. So we may know soon enough.

But I have a MSP with a few mods. I drove his car not too long ago and was very impressed with the power.

[akhilleus]

I think that most NA people will put down mid to high 15's at this point. Topher, spicy or twilight may be exceptions at probably under 15.5. I would be happy if i posted a high 15. With my future mods i hope to be closer to low 15's.

[Gen1GT]

I'm aiming to break into the 13s with my 170whp goal(my car only weighs 2350lbs, but more weight is coming off all the time). I want to be the fastest all motor Protege by the end of the summer, so I want to know exactly what everyone's running, just so I know what time I have to beat. Speculation won't cut it....

[batmang]

i ran a 17.6 my first time ever at a track, it was horrible. wooooo!

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

so far my fastest is 16.8 but the track here sucks balls and my car has gotten faster since then. so i dunno.

[twilightprotege]

i will be doing 1/4 runs when i get new tyres next month - stay tuned :D

i've never done a real 1/4 run though, so reaction time might be crap, but i'm sure i'll get used to it

[RODSCALIP5]

fastest I hAve is 16.5 on rev/speed meter :(

[Micah]

http://www.speedworldmotorplex.com/calc.htm

The math works.

[MacProtege5]

i would like to think i have a chance at the fastest N/A p5. i haven't taken it to the track recently but i have a bunch of mods as you can see in my sig.

[stdntDrvr]

Honestly I'm not sure what he runs in the 1/4. But I know Topher has a good bit of stuff done to his 5. We're trying to get to the strip here in the next couple of months. So we may know soon enough.

But I have a MSP with a few mods. I drove his car not too long ago and was very impressed with the power.

thanks, matt. i need to get my clutch/flywheel on...my clutch is starting to slip very badly...i'm also looking at new gears and an lsd...i get no traction! anyone wanna donate?

[Paul Ruebens]

<!~~~will race for food.

[mp3moose]

"Who has the fasted NA Protege?"

I put mine on a diet, but it went straight for the pumps.

[viVid]

What does "significant weight reduction" mean? Did you go on a diet? :) Seriously though, what did you remove?


i would like to think i have a chance at the fastest N/A p5. i haven't taken it to the track recently but i have a bunch of mods as you can see in my sig.

[Iconoclast]

not i

[xelderx]

SpicyMchaggis has a beast, but I heard he was selling out to F/I.

[scorch70]

SpicyMchaggis has a beast, but I heard he was selling out to F/I.
Noooooo!! Dont do it Spicy! We need all the N/A guys to stay with it. Don't go the easy route. Dont be tempted by the whisperings of the FI crowd - "get a turbo, it will make you a better lover" or "give up on N/A, those guys are a bunch of losers." :)

Back on topic, I havent had a chance to get to the local dragstrip yet. Sort of chicken, since I have never drag raced. Been there to watch a number of times, but not raced yet. Soon.


scorch70

[Paul Ruebens]

I think actually I'll have one of the faster NA cars in another month or so. I'm betting mid 15's on the stock 2.0L bottom end. We'll see though.

[Gen1GT]

i would like to think i have a chance at the fastest N/A p5. i haven't taken it to the track recently but i have a bunch of mods as you can see in my sig.
Get out to the track man. And dyno your car too. It would be interesting to see what you can do with those mods.

[Gen1GT]

I think actually I'll have one of the faster NA cars in another month or so. I'm betting mid 15's on the stock 2.0L bottom end. We'll see though.
What mods?

My best time so far is 15.972 @ 86.25. This was on balding 185/60/14s. Cheap ones too. The car weighed in at 2350lbs. I just removed another 100lbs, new tranny mounts, new pilot bearing and a whole different, and smoother shifting tranny. Also, I'm borrowing a friends Azenis. So my pathetic 2.45 60' times should improve. I'm crossing my fingers for a 15.7.

[Paul Ruebens]

you should deff drop .2s with the new mods you listed. Tires are a big fator when launching. I'm hitting 2.3s 60' and I'm hoping with a tire other than the stockers I can hit a 2.2s or lower.

I'll have:
custom cams
no emissions
Extrude Hone port & polish on both intake manifold and head
baby spares on the rear wheels
and possibly the msp LSD.

with the cams alone I should push almost 15.9 or so....my car just stops breathing on the top end...you can litterly feel it fall off. It's very sad. The P&P will be $1200 for stage 2 which is awesome and will help out more than just about any other mod. Should augment my intake and header rather well.

[Gen1GT]

I ran a 15.741 @ 85.79 today. 2.257 was my best 60' time, with no reaction times over .699(best was .525). This officially makes me the quickest all-motor Protege. Funny thing is, my trap speed is slower than before, even though I'm .2 seconds quicker. I'm chalking that up to the air-resistance of my front end damage. At 100kph, my hood pops up(like I released from under the dash, but the safety lever keeps it from flying away), and it's even worse since it's trapping air. I figure just by getting my front end fixed, I'll be over 87mph.

[GAspeedProtege]

Theres a guy in GA with a 1st gen, no idea what he has done, but I have seen him take Si's with basic boltons.

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

http://www.speedworldmotorplex.com/calc.htm

The math works.
it would work if it was fwhp and not rwhp, rwd cars are going to be a little quicker with less hp.

[Gen1GT]

it would work if it was fwhp and not rwhp, rwd cars are going to be a little quicker with less hp.
Not true. RWD have more drivetrain loss, usually enough to cancel the weight transfer advantage. My car put down a 111whp baseline, whereas Miatas with the same engine put down 105ish.

That site automatically figures in 60' times as 1.7. If that could be adjusted, you would get more accurate numbers. I use my car's ACTUAL weight, rather than weight with me in it, and the numbers come out right.

[PFUNK5]

I wish mine was the fastest here... I know I can keep up w/ some Mazdaspeeds...maybe cuz I drive like an asshole. I don't know though, never dragged the car only autox-, plus i like the turns betta than the straightaway.

[Gen1GT]

I wish mine was the fastest here... I know I can keep up w/ some Mazdaspeeds...maybe cuz I drive like an asshole. I don't know though, never dragged the car only autox-, plus i like the turns betta than the straightaway.
I autoX too, so it's not like I'm single minded....

[MacProtege5]

i removed everything to do with the a/c, everything to do with the power steering, the back seats, spare, jack, all the sound insulation underneath the carpet, and a few pounds here and there by installing the lighter flywheel and crank pulley and cruise control stuff

[Gen1GT]

i removed everything to do with the a/c, everything to do with the power steering, the back seats, spare, jack, all the sound insulation underneath the carpet, and a few pounds here and there by installing the lighter flywheel and crank pulley and cruise control stuff
Get out to the track man. I'll bet all of that stuff gets you .3 or .4 seconds more.

[Paul Ruebens]

I bet it gets more than that....losing both ps and ac pulley and all associated equipement would yield a BIG gain. I'd say a minimum of .5s or more.

[stdntDrvr]

I bet it gets more than that....losing both ps and ac pulley and all associated equipement would yield a BIG gain. I'd say a minimum of .5s or more.
this guy is scared to race me...the guy that made this post, that is.

[Gen1GT]

I bet it gets more than that....losing both ps and ac pulley and all associated equipement would yield a BIG gain. I'd say a minimum of .5s or more.
Maybe, but PS and AC will free up 5hp max. And about .1 seconds for every 50lbs you take off. So if he takes off 150lbs, that's good for .3 seconds.

[Paul Ruebens]

removing both PS and AC will yield a bigger gain than just removing one because they are both on the same section of crank pulley. All thats left is the crank, waterpump and alt...all on one belt. Eliminating half of the pulleys/belts and losing the 150+lbs should yield an easy 10+hp. Besides he mentioned having a lighter flywheel and UDP....this guy is going to be pretty fast....maybe the fastest. That is of course until I get my P&P and cams! Then it's on!

p.s. Topher, we'll race but you'll have to get back on here afterwards and tell evryone who your daddy is!

[SpicyMchaggis]

Some kid on these forums has an MP3 at 15.59 @ 90mph..so his sig says I guess..thanks for the props guys..I'm at about a 15.4-15.5 right now. Thats without the passenger seat, the rear seat, no spare tire..etc..etc..Boost is too tempting..I want lots of zoom-zoom..a whole lot. We'll see I guess.

[Gen1GT]

Some kid on these forums has an MP3 at 15.59 @ 90mph..so his sig says I guess..thanks for the props guys..I'm at about a 15.4-15.5 right now. Thats without the passenger seat, the rear seat, no spare tire..etc..etc..Boost is too tempting..I want lots of zoom-zoom..a whole lot. We'll see I guess.You're 'about' 15.4-15.5? What's the actual best time you've run? Who's the guy with the 15.59? I know it sounds narcissistic, but I'd have to know more about that..maybe a timeslip, or list of mods. There are a few guys in this territory, so it would be nice to know what the REAL deal is. I don't want to be running around claiming to be the fastest, when I'm not...(first)? (second)?

[SpicyMchaggis]

I haven't run since i put down my 15.98. Since then, I got into dropping lots of weight out of the car for runs..I'm guessing, but thats where I'm thinking I am.

Mods list..
4-1 Header - 2.33" piping all the way back w/o cats.
INJEN CAI
Sparkco Wires/NGK Plugs
56MM re-honed throttle body w/stiffer spring in the butterfly
VTCS removed
ECU reflash to MP3 advanced timing
Re-calibrated MAF and air/fuel monitoring

Hopefully once I get my new back/right wheel bearing and some fresh rubber, I'll go up new england dragway and run again. Thus far, removing the A/C, the passenger and rear seat, spare tire, running on my 15" steelies with falken azenies is the best i've got...any ideas on more weight? I can't imagine the interior lining and stuff yields much weight.

[Paul Ruebens]

when you say you removed the AC what exactly did you remove?

[SpicyMchaggis]

I haven't yet, its more of a question..like a "how would I remove my A/C" those are the best ideas i've got to lower my time..the weathers been really shitty lately..I'm sure its basic, just cutting the a/c compressor out and closing the hose loop or something..i'll mess around with it when its nicer out.

[Paul Ruebens]

If you're going to simply bypass the AC you could just remove the belt from your ac/ps pumps and then put it back on when it's time to leave the track. To get serious about it you would need to drain the refrigerant, remove the compressor, remove the bracket, remove the high and low pressure lines, remove the condensor from behind the radiator, tie-strap the wiring harness from the compressor out of the way, and about 50 other things.

[SpicyMchaggis]

yeah, we'll see how it goes i suppose. its not very effective unless you go all out..i was thinking of using the a/c as just a means to bring excess heat off the radiator..hmm..oh yeah, i don't really have to worry about this too much..couple more months and i'll be boosted..wahaha.

[sport_20]

I don't really have any idea but I would have to say a FS-ZE with AWD would have to give the 1/4 a good run ;)

[Paul Ruebens]

nah, the AWD will sap all of the power out of the motor. It would be great for launching hard but thats about it. I bet it's no faster than a stock msp.

[Gen1GT]

Ya, with the same amount of power, a FWD car will be faster than both a RWD and AWD car(all other things being equal) because of powertrain losses. Example, BP Proteges have 125hp, while early BP Miatas had 128. Most BP Proteges baseline at 107-110, while Miatas baseline at 100-105, even though they have a few more flywheel hp. An AWD BP Protege would probably put down 95whp.

[SpicyMchaggis]

Yeah, for an N/A application i'd be completely fruitless. I was out in the rain trying to figure out where I can take more weight out.

[sport_20]

nah, the AWD will sap all of the power out of the motor. It would be great for launching hard but thats about it. I bet it's no faster than a stock msp.

Isn't the msp boosted???

[sport_20]

Ya, with the same amount of power, a FWD car will be faster than both a RWD and AWD car(all other things being equal) because of powertrain losses. Example, BP Proteges have 125hp, while early BP Miatas had 128. Most BP Proteges baseline at 107-110, while Miatas baseline at 100-105, even though they have a few more flywheel hp. An AWD BP Protege would probably put down 95whp.

Sure, if the hp is the same then yes the fwd would be quicker. It is my understanding that the J-spec is upwards of 40hp up on the US versions, init?

[SpicyMchaggis]

No, its not 40hp..Its a very minimal difference to be honest. At the ground its maybe 10-15..

[twilightprotege]

i dont think the 1/4 time will be any slower or quicker in fwd car - dont forget we suck at putting power to the ground. you'd probably find that the 1/4 mile times are the same, just that fwd's have a faster trap speed (i guess)

[Paul Ruebens]

they claim 170hp on the FS-ZE, but that number is not relaible....look at how they claim 130hp on the FS-DE and it only puts out about 95-100whp. 30% drivetrain loss on a FWD does NOT happen.

[SpicyMchaggis]

yeah, its 18% drivetrain loss roughly..It's 163 at the crank on the FS-ZE..but even that, i don't really believe..Realisitically its a little faster than an MP3..not saying much..

[sport_20]

No, its not 40hp..Its a very minimal difference to be honest. At the ground its maybe 10-15..

How can it be 10-15 when the US p5's are spec'd at 130hp and the j-spec is spec'd at 170hp??

[twilightprotege]

130hp at the engine and 100whp is not 30% loss - it's about 23%. 100 is 77% of 130

[SpicyMchaggis]

dude, they are NOT spec'd at 170hp..They are 163 exactly at the crank..I'm pretty sure drivetrain loss is 18%..AWD should be about 23-24%..Take that motor, put it into a FF sedan..Its not as fast and powerful as everyone thinks it is..Right now, I'd take on a FS-ZE in a sedan or p5....With all the crazy crap i've thought up for my car..(bigger valves and angle job, higher compression, custom valve springs, custom intake manifold, forged internals, full stand-alone, etc. etc) all that stuff..MAYBE yields 150-160whp..I'm going to break 200whp..one way or another..A form of boost is in order..whether it be turbo, charger, or crack..I'm going to break 200whp..

[sport_20]

dude, they are NOT spec'd at 170hp..They are 163 exactly at the crank..I'm pretty sure drivetrain loss is 18%..AWD should be about 23-24%..Take that motor, put it into a FF sedan..Its not as fast and powerful as everyone thinks it is..Right now, I'd take on a FS-ZE in a sedan or p5....With all the crazy crap i've thought up for my car..(bigger valves and angle job, higher compression, custom valve springs, custom intake manifold, forged internals, full stand-alone, etc. etc) all that stuff..MAYBE yields 150-160whp..I'm going to break 200whp..one way or another..A form of boost is in order..whether it be turbo, charger, or crack..I'm going to break 200whp..

Thanks for that, the only specs I have seen (http://english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/15009/) spec the fs-ze at 125kw or 170hp at the crank. Who measured the 163?

I have to comend you on reaching 150ish whp with the engine you guys get in the US (stanadard at about 100whp??), bet that cost a dollar or two.

As for the fs-ze not being amazingly powerful, I agree 100% though I have to say I can keep pace with my mate in his vtec civic which are definetely not shabby when it comes to power.

[Gen1GT]

130hp at the engine and 100whp is not 30% loss - it's about 23%. 100 is 77% of 130
Math tricks eh? You're right that 100 is 77% of 130, but that's not the important number. 100 is exactly 30% less than 130. Two different numbers, don't divide the 130 into 100. 130% of 100 is 130. 30% more. 130 divided by 1.3 is 100. 30% less. If you had 130hp from the factory, and got 100whp, 30% drivetrain loss. The math is besides Spiceys point. He's saying that Mazda tends to overrate their engines, and the FS and FS-ZE never actually made the numbers the factory claimed. 15-18% is normal drivetrain loss, so if they dyno at 100whp, they're really making 118 from the factory. Not the 130 Mazda claimed. They SHOULD be baselining at 110whp. Which is around what BPs baseline at. 105-110, even though they were rated at 125hp. Maybe Mazda was embarassed that their 2.0 engine made less than their 1.8 and rated it higher?

[twilightprotege]

yeah sorta maths tricks, yes 130 is 130% of 100, but since we're talking about loss, you cant talk about loss in terms of 100whp because that's the final figure. you dont loose anything from it. you're loosing 30 from 130, and that's 23% loss

fyi guys - a good way to convert at the crank power to wheel power is convert the crank hp into kw. what the engine makes in kw is the same figure as what it should make at the wheels. ie the aussie p5 makes 98kw (apparently). it should put out 98whp

[PR5Matt]

Hell, if I could get just 15.00-15.30 I'd call it a day. I have other cars to go really fast in...

[SpicyMchaggis]

Wow, I was really determined to break 200hp back then..Silly bastard.

[Gen1GT]

What's stopping you?

[65racecoupe]

Noooooo!! Dont do it Spicy! We need all the N/A guys to stay with it. Don't go the easy route. Dont be tempted by the whisperings of the FI crowd - "get a turbo, it will make you a better lover" or "give up on N/A, those guys are a bunch of losers." :)

Back on topic, I havent had a chance to get to the local dragstrip yet. Sort of chicken, since I have never drag raced. Been there to watch a number of times, but not raced yet. Soon.


scorch70

Hear me now....Do it.....Do it.....Do it! (rockon) (rockon) (rockon)

I command you (drive)

Get a TURBO, it will make you a better lover.
Give up on N/A, those N/A guys are a bunch of losers.

Hey, scorch said it. (wow)

A real ? to those of you who have a fast NA car -

How is the driveability, idle, etc, compared to stock? Just curious.

[Installshield 2]

wow...old thread...

I finally have the engine in my garage at least now...and finally have some wiring figures and schematics for triggering to Linkelectro...Oddly enough I finally have the cash for the full exhaust and the standalone, and the computer people are spending a good deal of time getting back to me...I got into NA at first because I always have a hard time dumping a ton of cash all at once...and I am days away from dumping 2,000 bucks in about 10 minutes...

I still hope to have it tuned and running before my last semester of school, but I also said I would have it running before christmas...I suck...

[Gen1GT]

Can't wait to see you up and running.

[stdntDrvr]

do you have a 1.8L?

want some free magnacors?



Can't wait to see you up and running.

[flat_black]

Install: I want to see the engine up and running! In a car, no less. =) Refresh my memory, though; What were you shooting for for a redline? And for that matter, you're doing it with an unmodified head, right?

[Installshield 2]

about 7800rpm or so for the street...putting the peak power down by a couple hp, but it will be much safer than the 8200 rpm on the brake dyno...

the head obviously needed new cams, and I did get around to some minor porting and mirroring the exhaust side finally...It also recieved the Eibach valve spring kit for the second build...other than that it was left alone...stock TB, stock intake manifold (other than the port matching, forgot about that)

[SpicyMchaggis]

You asked how NA cars run?

Like shit.

[twilightprotege]

mine runs like stock...it's feel like stock too if i didnt have the hard awr enging mounts

[65racecoupe]

You asked how NA cars run?

Like shit.

Are you gonna go turbo then? (drive)

[Nightmare]

i still dont beleive that drivetrain loss is a percentile..

[SpicyMchaggis]

i still dont beleive that drivetrain loss is a percentile..

you can calculate it for every car, thus making a precentile from the data. Do it many many many times over many similar types of car and you get rather accurate FF, FR, AWD drivetrain loss averages.


Are you gonna go turbo then? (drive)

well, If I was going to say turbo my protege, that would of happened over a year ago. I haven't done anything (or plan to) in hell, months.

[Nightmare]

i suppose if you take the chp and whp after all mods and made it into a percentile, that makes sense to me. but when someone tells me that you lose 20% to your drivetrain, ok, i have a 1000whp engine, and i lose 200whp to the drive train? seems a touch abseurd to me..

[Installshield 2]

Yeah there are a few threads that we touched on this I think...You can say its a percentile...which is true, it can always be a percentile basis...but that percentile is not fixed...meaning the percentile of drivetrain loss on a stock protege vs. a heavily modified engine is not the same...only because of the increase (or decrease if you suck) in hp...not because the drivetrain becomes more or less efficient...that is a whole other beast that doesn't really come in until power is extremely high...

I prefer to just say that the gearbox devours a certain amount of hp...what that number is is based on what our actual stock bhp number is...its not quite 130...but if you believe it is (no use on arguing on it, because it really doesn't matter), just figure you lose about 30 hp to the wheels...always...so if you have 200whp, figure you have roughly 230bhp...and hopefully you can see why the fixed percentage notion appears to be flawed...

[Installshield 2]

i suppose if you take the chp and whp after all mods and made it into a percentile, that makes sense to me. but when someone tells me that you lose 20% to your drivetrain, ok, i have a 1000whp engine, and i lose 200whp to the drive train? seems a touch abseurd to me..

this is where it gets funny...You definately would lose a lot of power from a 1000bhp powerplant hooked up to our gearbox, axles, wheel carriers, etc...so in this sense you would not lose that identical amount of "30" hp I was talking about in the above post...in reality you would break something...but mathmatically you would create heat gradients and metal fatigue flectures (prior everything scattering out of the bottom, sides, and top of the car) that would sap out a fair amount more power than that of a 200bhp engine hooked up to the same drivetrain...

again though...it doesn't matter anyway...your bhp number is of little importance...and if you were trying to make 1000bhp out of an FS, you would have stopped a long time ago...if somehow you did do it, you obviously have the beans to realize that you would need a shit load of work done to the rest of the car to handle it...in which case, you wouldn't lose a whole of bhp to the wheels...but I just said that was important in the first place...I am lost...

[twilightprotege]

i like to think of it as x whp + % of total engine power.

[Gen1GT]

I'm with Jamie on the drivetrain debate....

[Nightmare]

that makes sense.

[65racecoupe]

I am interested to see what the real numbers are on a stick Protege. I believe my Mustang loses about 20% or less through it's manual tranny.

My P5 dynoed at 105 to the wheels (full exhaust after stock manifold and lightened flywheel). If I was lucky I had 140 to the flywheel. My mods don't do crap for NA as it is getting ready for turbo.

[Nightmare]

the full exhaust helps, slap a header on that and you should dyno in at 115 or so whp