Header Thread - Availability, price, quality....

[p5sundevil]

OK, Now that we have this awesome forum to be more specific about NA tuning I thought we should have a good thread covering all the options out there and their basic qualities.

As a disclaimer because I want this thread to stay on topic this is NOT a discussion about what kind of header is best, because that depends on your goals and personal taste(as well as financial reasons but we will try to stay clear of that)

So basically I want this to be as factual and clear cut as possible. Ill list all the header applications available to us that I know of, PLEASE add any that I miss or comments on the quality/customer service behind each piece. Not about whether you like a 4-1 or 4-2-1 better.

here we go....

AWR: Of course the first widely available header for our cars. A 4-2-1 full length tubular header. made from 304 SS and TIG welded all the way around comes with 2 o2 sensor bungs and an EGR valve and bolts directly to the stock midpipe with cat.
*note: fitment issues have been found with automatic proteges, should be fine for manual*
Goes for about 565 shipped... www.protege5online.com (http://www.protege5online.com/)
http://www.protege5online.com/For_Sale_Page/AWR_Header/AWRHeader1smal.JPG
Other pictures can be found here.....
http://www.protege5online.com/For_Sale_Page/AWR_Header/awr_header.html

Wagner Motorsports: Wagner makes a 4-1 style shorty header that bolts directly to the stock primary cat making an emissions legal header.Goes for $185 in steel and $265 for SS. Comes with all EGR valves and so forth and according to wagners website it has been dynoed for a 7whp gain, no dyno scans available though.
Pictures Here: http://www.wagnermotorsports.net/productDetails.php?id=16
*note: Wagner also offers a SS Downpipe with or without a cat in it that can be added to the header in bolt-on fashion. This will allow you to choose to retain a primary cat but have it better flowing or to eliminate it with the downpipe. Also available is a midpipe with or without cat to further complete the exhaust system.

Ractive: This is different from the wagner and AWR headers in that it is a mass produced item and not handmade. This makes cost lower but as some will tell you quality will not be the same as a handmade piece like the two above. With that said this is an equal length 4-1 header design made of SS and tig welded. Bolts directly to stock midpipe with cat eliminating the primary cat. Has egr valve and O2 bung but will require you to add a 2nd O2 bung behind the 2nd cat or get a MIL eliminator to prevent you from having a CEL show up. Available for around 200-250 shipped depending on the vendor.
*note; Ractive currently makes an axle back exhaust with a midpipe in the R&D phases to eventually complete their exhaust system setup for the proteges.
Pictures to come:

Essential Speed: ES has 2 header options available as of right now. An equal length 4-1 shorty style header that retains the stock cats. 304 SS comes with EGR and O2 valves, ceramic coating is included which is real nice and according to their information that have seen 8-10whp gains from this shorty header although dyno scans are not available. Goes for about $600canadian which is about $438 USD
Picture:http://www.essentialspeed.com/shop/images/prodpics/coatedP5equallength.jpg

Es's second header option is also an equal length setup but is a full 4-2-1 design that eliminates the stock primary cat.This one is also SS and ceramic coated by ES, comes with midpipe>hi-flow cat,flexpipe and 2.5" tubing to bolt to stock resinator flange. Goes for $750 canadian which is about $550 USD
Picture: http://www.essentialspeed.com/shop/images/prodpics/P5header4to1.jpg

[b]OBX/Forza Tuning:/b]This is a 4-1 SS header similar to the Ractive header in design. From first appearance the collector seems a bit shorter than with the Ractive header but has shown no ill affects. Comes with an EGR and O2 valve but again you will need to have the 2nd O2 bung wedled in behind the 2nd cat or have a MIL eliminator put in because this header does eliminate the primary cat. Goes for about 220-240 shipped from vendors like protegegarage.com and for about 200 shipped through ebay.
*note OBX does make a full catback system for the protege to complete their exhaust system for our cars*
Picture:http://www.tuningdepot.com/ebay/images/prot2.jpg
Best other pictures can be found on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33631&item=2479680509&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

As more info and more systems become available I will update this thread frequently. Like I mentioned before if you know of other systems available or information about any of the headers listed about please feel free to post.

TY
-Alex

edit:btw im not responsible for typos, im writing this as I check in guests here at the golf course =)

[batmang]

ES 4-2-1 is probly the best one in that bunch, yeah, its a lot of money, but look what you get with it. i ordered mine and i can wait to get it installed. i just gotta wait for it to be shipped.

[Gen1GT]

That AWR piece looks very.....ah..interesting.


Here's the 1st Gen BP options.

Pacesetter- 4-1 header $165American, bolts right in, but is the stock length, so it can be used with the factory downpipe. 1 5/8 Primaries, 2" collector made with cheap steel. These rust out in a matter of months.

http://www.corksport.com/content/00/01/06/61/73/shop/products/images/480905.jpg

Genie- 4-2-1 header, mild steel. $384.67CDN. 1 7/8 Primaries and seconaries, not sure of the collector diameter. I couldn't find a pic either.

Custom don't forget this option guys. Obviously way more expensive, but you have it made to your specs. If you know a bit about header physics, this could possibly get you the best results too. My custom heade is going to cost $800CDN, althought it will be well made.

[p5sundevil]

whats interesting about the AWR piece, it is the one used on some world challenge cars...as far as I know also from any known dyno it has shown the greatest gains....this may be due to lack of dyno sheets/scans from other companies but either way it is proven.

The ES one looks interesting, it comes with a shitload of stuff and add ons for the price but that design...I would think your going for minimal piping while trying to creat an equal length design, while this one looks like the octopus it has been called. Either way should show nice gains....right now since i cant afford the AWR I am looking at the Ractive or wagner shorty...with eventual DP

[2k3 PrO RiDa]

does anyone know if the high flow cat that comes with the 4-2-1 es header replaces the stock header that gets removed??

[p5sundevil]

dude what are u saying, you just asked if an aftermarket header replaces the stock header? thats the whole point?

come back sober....=)

[2k3 PrO RiDa]

oops sry...i meant does the high flow cat that comes with the 4-2-1 header replace the stock cat that gets removed.

[Installshield 2]

Nope...and which header comes with the high flow cat?...Your protege has 2 catalysts...A primary, which is mounted vertically behind the radiator...and a secondary, which is directly beneath your cup holders, mounted horizontally...Unless you get one of the two "shorty" header designs, the primary cat will be fully removed...But it has been said that the car will still be LEV compliant with simply the secondary cat...but it will still loose inspections if your area is real anal about these types of mods...Both shorty headers will have no effect on emissions; the car will remain U-LEV

[cdglowred5]

Installshield you are right about emissions. I live in Florida, we do not have emissions. I have the ES header. The one in the picture is actually mine. I am the first to have the 4-2-1 header from Essentialspeed. The mid-pipe with the highflow cat is an awesome part to have along with the header. I am not bashing AWR because there header is nice too. Awr set the pace for others to follow.

You do not need any MIL for the ES.

I am trying to get a Dyno day ASAP. Right now I have family down. Maybe next week plus I lost my Full time job. So I am strapped for cash.......

GEN1- With the BP motor I notice more of a gain with Pacesetter over Genie. The only bad thing was pacesetter look like crap the next day if you did not get it polished stock or cermic coated..

[Subghetto]

Will our cars still be emissions compliant if you remove the second cat but get a hi-flow pre-cat???

[p5sundevil]

well techincally i guess so, since taking out the primary and leaving the 2nd will make you LEV compliant like install said then I assume leaving a primary and taking out the 2nd would be the same, and would also be better for visual inspection as you will still have a cat in the primary location. Never seen anyone do it this way, get a high flow primary and go catless from there back, but I dont see why it wouldnt work, the the 2nd O2 bung would be closer also.

[20EVOLUTION01]

I took off my secondary Cat and left the primary with the Original Header still installed. I also don't have emissions testing here cuz I live so close to the border. Cleaned it up really nice but I rather have the Cat on were the secondary was and take out the Primary but that will happen when I get my Header. Still debating which one to get.

[FC3s Boy]

i like the awr piece for all out racing but it cost a pretty penny, a lot of our guys use the OBX header with good result's I sell it for $210.00 the awr goes for $569.00. Last time i talked to tony @ awr he was backordered on the headers

[tonkabui]

or you can go custom. get the 4-2-1 header for the mazda 626 (previous incarnation of the fs-de engine) and get an EGR bung welded in the proper spot, then get either a test pipe or a high flow cat for the mid section and you're set. can't go wrong for $127 shipped for the header and no more than $150 for the welding mods with cat, or $50 for just the welds.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/tonkabui/mazdasports/header1.jpg

[Installshield 2]

Will our cars still be emissions compliant if you remove the second cat but get a hi-flow pre-cat???Sundevil cleared this up it appears, but I will try to explain how the whole exhaust system is oriented in terms of emissions...

Right in front of the engine is that primary cat you are referring to...It is bolted directly on the stock "collector", which is a cast iron manifold...The catalyst itself is actually somewhat less restrictive compared to the older versions mounted farther back in the exhaust...The primary catalyst's main goal is to heat up very quickly...Once it is up to temp, the unburned hydrocarbons and CO exhaust content are delt with, and the air we breathe becomes less likely to kill us...

But the first cat is in its location mainly because it takes so much less time to heat up (catalytic converters are not even a quarter as effective until heated to operating temperature)...And because it heats up quickly, it starts doing its job quickly, and gives the stock protege the lower emission's needed to be U-LEV compliant...that is where the U is coming from...it will make nearly identical emissions once warm without that primary cat, but it will be running very dirty when cold...which will bump it back down to LEV...like most other compacts...

But don't get confused...ITs the damn stock downpipe that needs to remedied...It is a joke...so if you get a shorty and leave the primary cat in place...YOU MUST get a custom downpipe made a muffler shop...I was quoted 40 bucks...so do it...

also Sughetto, like you mentioned...You could have only one cat located where the primary one is...and not loose any U-LEV compliance at all (potentailly...depends on how good the replacement cat is...The secondary one is there because the stock primary is very high flowing, and is designed to absorb a lot of heat and stay hot...but is less affective than the second one)...having the cat there though is less ideal for performance reasons because 1) it is scorching hot, and will raise the engine bay temp signicantly...this also can affect the radiators ability to "radiate"...and 2) catalysts, especially right after crucial pulse merges, can disrupt vacuum flow...and depending on how involved you cam mods or other things are made, can cost a decent amount of power...

If you must have at least one, which I understand; that is what I am doing, you would probably be better off keeping it farther back in line of the exhaust...basically the farther from the engine it is, the less likely it is to disrupt any flow dynamics, and the longer it takes to heat up and work properly...The location of the stock secondary cat is a great balance of both...

[batmang]

Installshield you are right about emissions. I live in Florida, we do not have emissions. I have the ES header. The one in the picture is actually mine. I am the first to have the 4-2-1 header from Essentialspeed. The mid-pipe with the highflow cat is an awesome part to have along with the header. I am not bashing AWR because there header is nice too. Awr set the pace for others to follow.

You do not need any MIL for the ES.

I am trying to get a Dyno day ASAP. Right now I have family down. Maybe next week plus I lost my Full time job. So I am strapped for cash.......

GEN1- With the BP motor I notice more of a gain with Pacesetter over Genie. The only bad thing was pacesetter look like crap the next day if you did not get it polished stock or cermic coated..
How long did it take ES to get you your header cdglowred5? I sent my order in, and it got cleared on May 19th. So now im still waiting on the shipping invoice and I havent gotten that yet. I know its not gonna be a quick deal, but how long did it take before you got your header after the payment's were cleared?

[p5sundevil]

Actually the header truc mentioned is one I have been thinking about alot lately also, because of how cheao it is first off, but that it is a 4-2-1 desing. I just wish someone made a pre-fabbed piece that I could use for it instead of having one custom made.

right now im lookin between ractive and the obx421

and thx install for clearing things up there, that was pretty much the extent of my knowledge on the situation although I heard that the primary cat is alot more restrictive than the 2nd on our cars, comments of not being able to see through it were mentioned and stuff but I dont know. Either way Id like to have a full header that eliminates the prmiary cat, and then get an exhaust with a cat and res in it.

[Installshield 2]

and thx install for clearing things up there, that was pretty much the extent of my knowledge on the situation although I heard that the primary cat is alot more restrictive than the 2nd on our cars, comments of not being able to see through it were mentioned and stuff but I dont know. Either way Id like to have a full header that eliminates the prmiary cat, and then get an exhaust with a cat and res in it.
yeah I am not positive on the primary cat, and I even heard they can vary significantly between model years...but in either case, the primary cat is not the only restrictive part of the exhaust...that downpipe is awful...and being that the primary cat heats up before the engine, it gets to collect some seriously shitty exhaust gas...so it may start out pretty free flowing, and quickly "clog up"...

[20EVOLUTION01]

Your right on the heat part. I took off the heat shield to expose the header so it could look cool. Later about two weaks I noticed the heat shield on the underside of the hood was turning white cuz of the heat. I put that the cover back on. But there shouldn't be any problems with the aftermarket header right, I mean most of the heat would be eliminated from the First Cat Right?

[Installshield 2]

well most...It still will be very very hot...But the internals of the catalyst absorb a whole lot of heat, and hold it there for a long time...so after you drive and let it sit, everything under there just swelters...

The best to eliminate heat would be to get header wrap for the header...that stuff has been proven lower underhood temps by a whole lot...

[20EVOLUTION01]

or you can go custom. get the 4-2-1 header for the mazda 626 (previous incarnation of the fs-de engine) and get an EGR bung welded in the proper spot, then get either a test pipe or a high flow cat for the mid section and you're set. can't go wrong for $127 shipped for the header and no more than $150 for the welding mods with cat, or $50 for just the welds.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/tonkabui/mazdasports/header1.jpg

What is it I need to make it work? As I understood just the EGR Bung and thats it? Does it need the second O2 Sensor bung on the bottom? Also does it mate to the exhaust pipe at the end of the header properly? Oh and you mentioned it came with a cat? That would be great. Is It 150 w/ Bung and cat shipped? Let me know cuz, I really don't want to but, my credit card keeps calling me to use it.


i like the awr piece for all out racing but it cost a pretty penny, a lot of our guys use the OBX header with good result's I sell it for $210.00 the awr goes for $569.00. Last time i talked to tony @ awr he was backordered on the headers

Does the OBX include all the bungs? Also where are you located. Maybe even I could pick it up. You said 210.00? Did that include shipping?

Both sound really good. Let me know guys.

[20EVOLUTION01]

well most...It still will be very very hot...But the internals of the catalyst absorb a whole lot of heat, and hold it there for a long time...so after you drive and let it sit, everything under there just swelters...

The best to eliminate heat would be to get header wrap for the header...that stuff has been proven lower underhood temps by a whole lot...

Cool Thanks, LOL I said cool.

[tonkabui]

What is it I need to make it work? As I understood just the EGR Bung and thats it? Does it need the second O2 Sensor bung on the bottom? Also does it mate to the exhaust pipe at the end of the header properly? Oh and you mentioned it came with a cat? That would be great. Is It 150 w/ Bung and cat shipped? Let me know cuz, I really don't want to but, my credit card keeps calling me to use it.



Does the OBX include all the bungs? Also where are you located. Maybe even I could pick it up. You said 210.00? Did that include shipping?

Both sound really good. Let me know guys.

make sure to get the one with 2 o2 bungs. you have two options. one is to plug in the second o2 sensor at the second bung and do the MIL eliminator. two is to do a custom hi flow cat with a second bung made behind the cat. the header i got came with a second bung bolt, so i left that there and had a second bung made on some custom piping behind the cat. i used the stock cat cause i didn't have another $100 for a hi flow. piping, welding, etc. all would have cost about $100 in parts and labor. any exhaust shop can do this for you. the header does not meet up to the catback section of the exhaust. it falls short. what you would do then is either get a test pipe to make up for the difference in length, or get the cat and piping put in. i opted for the cat with custom piping. i ended up using 2" lexus pipe since the racing beat catback at the point where it bolts up to the cat is 2" then increases to 2.37" further downstream. the runners are 1.6", then 1.8" where it goes from 4-2, then almost 2" from where it goes from 2-1.

[20EVOLUTION01]

make sure to get the one with 2 o2 bungs. you have two options. one is to plug in the second o2 sensor at the second bung and do the MIL eliminator. two is to do a custom hi flow cat with a second bung made behind the cat. the header i got came with a second bung bolt, so i left that there and had a second bung made on some custom piping behind the cat. i used the stock cat cause i didn't have another $100 for a hi flow. piping, welding, etc. all would have cost about $100 in parts and labor. any exhaust shop can do this for you. the header does not meet up to the catback section of the exhaust. it falls short. what you would do then is either get a test pipe to make up for the difference in length, or get the cat and piping put in. i opted for the cat with custom piping. i ended up using 2" lexus pipe since the racing beat catback at the point where it bolts up to the cat is 2" then increases to 2.37" further downstream. the runners are 1.6", then 1.8" where it goes from 4-2, then almost 2" from where it goes from 2-1.

Cool Thanks also where do I get one if I deside to go with this one. I can weld pretty good. I have been welding for about 8 years now with an Arc Welder and have gotten really good. Oh I have forgotten about the flex pipe. I installed one cus the Engine Flex, Even though small, kept breaking my bolts in the rear of the exhaust hangers. I'll probably have to mount it behind the Flex Pipe and extend the wires for the O2 Sensor. Oh also you passed emissions with that mod right? I am planning on moving up to Tucson sometime in the future.

[akhilleus]

An arc welder might be a pita. Also no offense the welds generally look like shit. But hey its under the car right. First to have a custom downpipe made will cost a little more than $40. First the entire downpipe is cast meaning u cant work with it for shit. Second u have all these weird flanges that have to be custom made. I was quoted $240 for downpipe+flex joint+flanges. Now thats a little high but it is in the general area. The ebay 421 is a great idea imo however the custom work that goes into it makes it much more pricey. Currently shipped they are like $170+at least $100 for the modifications and another $50-$100 for cat and pipe. That makes a ebay header cost as much as an AWR almost. Another thing is that many exhaust places wont remove a primary cat unless u install another one. This depends on the state but here in NJ they will not do it. Thats why i want the OBX cause although its only 41 it basically bolts right on, meaning i can do it myself, and the price is more or less final@$240(there is actually a GB about to go on) except for the 2nd o2 bung u need but thats like maybe $20. BTW tonkabui how does that header perform. I remember when zmepro got his and he was having some problems even after the EGR was fixed.

[Installshield 2]

Woah dude...240???...My quote was for a welded standard 2" mandrel bent downpipe that replaced the stock one...simply bolted to the stock primary cat, and made a 90 or so bend towards the secondary cat...I don't remember if they were just going to weld it before the hangers to the rest of the exhaust or what...

either way you are right...40 was cheap, and probably would have been shit work...I am just illustrating the stock crush bent thing needs to be ridded of...

[tonkabui]

the obx 4-2-1 doesn't need a flex pipe. it comes with one already. all that's missing is a tiny bit of pipe, about a foot long. you can either get a cat in there and weld it to a flange to fit, or you can just weld a test pipe to a couple of flanges to fit. either way, it shouldn't cost more than $100 TOTAL for piping and modifications. if you know how to weld yourself, you might be able to do the project yourself. just be sure to measure how much pipe you need exactly.

[20EVOLUTION01]

the obx 4-2-1 doesn't need a flex pipe. it comes with one already. all that's missing is a tiny bit of pipe, about a foot long. you can either get a cat in there and weld it to a flange to fit, or you can just weld a test pipe to a couple of flanges to fit. either way, it shouldn't cost more than $100 TOTAL for piping and modifications. if you know how to weld yourself, you might be able to do the project yourself. just be sure to measure how much pipe you need exactly.

Ok, and how mush was the OBX 4-2-1? That one interests me more since it already has a flex pipe. I can just cut my original exhaust pipe and fit a cat like you said and weld a bung to the rear of it. A regular nut will work fine for the bung right. I have seen people well the correct size nut and screw the O2 sensor in, they didn't complain of any problems. Well all in all I want it to look as professional as possible.

[tonkabui]

i got mine off ebay for $125 shipped. there are a few of them on ebay right now.

[20EVOLUTION01]

i got mine off ebay for $125 shipped. there are a few of them on ebay right now.

(mswerd) I will look right now.
did you mean this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2480153115&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Oh also did you mean to say 225 or 125 cuz the one I am seeing is 195.00 or 200 buy it now.

Also check this one out,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2480300567&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

[Gen1GT]

Cool Thanks, LOL I said cool.
I'm going to have it wrapped, then I'm putting my friends stock Prelude heat sheild on. I'm going to have bosses mounted to my custom header. Not only will it keep underhood temps down, it will look completely stock. "I swear officer, I wasn't racing. Look, it's stock"

[gino]

How long did it take ES to get you your header cdglowred5? I sent my order in, and it got cleared on May 19th. So now im still waiting on the shipping invoice and I havent gotten that yet. I know its not gonna be a quick deal, but how long did it take before you got your header after the payment's were cleared?I'm running Kevin's shorty "bundle of snakes." Perfect fit, excellent build and finish. Took over a month to get it. Actually came from a guy in Tennessee who ordered one previous to me and wrecked his car. No longer had any use for it and shipped it back to Canada. ES shipped it on to me. Don't know how much longer it might have taken to get it from Hoserland direct. BTW, ES headers come with both new gaskets.

Installed it and ran a dyno check. Surprised the hell out of all of us during pulls. No increase in WHP, no increase in torque over previous non-header runs with Injen CIA and Magnaflow CB. Go figure. ES claims 7 hp increase and around 10 ft/lb increase in twist. Called Liphard and told him what the dyno said, even though the car is quicker by the clock. He was baffled; couldn't figure the dyno readings.

Next thing I'm doing is dumping the primary cat even though we're an emissions state--Colorado doesn't visually check the system, they look for a CEL and run numbers. Should pass next time around.

No dyno kick in the shorty is why I'm waiting for one of you guys with the ES 4/2/1 to make a dyno run. If the numbers are there, I might make the investment. If not, I may go another route for my '5 and move the shorty to my SOs ES.

[20EVOLUTION01]

i got mine off ebay for $125 shipped. There are a few of them on ebay right now.

Hey, just wondering where you got it for $125 shipped. I see one for $200.00.

For anyone to answer.....

Sorry for asking but is the Forza a good header? It is an OBX or one like it? Also where can I find one for a good price. I am looking for one. I don't have emissions where I live so I am going catless. Which one is better 4-2-1 or 4-1? Any dynos yet out there?

[p5sundevil]

If you dont have emissions then go with a 4-2-1, bigger gains are to be had in better parts of the power band and so forth. The Forxa header is similar to the OBX but is the 4-1 design, but it bolts up to the stock catback exhaust so you wouldnt need to have a test pipe made like with the 4-2-1 OBX. Difference in price is the 4-2-1 Can be had for about 125 shipped like truc said with another 100 bux of work to get it to fit perfect, the Forza will be 200-220 shipped but needs no modification.

[tonkabui]

i think alex isn't quite all the way awake yet;). what he meant was the obx, forza and ractive headers all bolt up to the midpipe, not the catback. the 4-2-1 obx one is too long to bolt up to the midpipe but too short to get all the way back to the catback.

[FunkyBuddha]

Ractive is made of steel..not SS. It's nickel plated. It'll rust and change colors like a chameleon. I had mine ceramic coated. Worth every penny. Not only does it cut down on engine bay heat, it also cools down really fast. Make sure to get it coated inside and out.

[p5sundevil]

I dont know why ractive made theirs out of regular steel everything else they manufacture uses 304 SS like the axle-back I have.

and Yes, truc corrected me the 4-2-1 is too long to bolt to the midpipe while all the 4-1's bolt directly to it, not the catback.

[20EVOLUTION01]

(cool)Thanks Guys. Tonkabui, you siad you got your on EBAY? Is there anywhere else to get it? Let me know guys, greatly appreciate it.

[tonkabui]

yeah, don't get the protege specific ones. get the mazda 626 from 97-on or the probe from the same era.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2480524849&category=33631

that one only has 1 O2 sensor bung, so you'll either have to make a second one at the midpipe with cat/testpipe or secure the second one somewhere with the MIL eliminator. it's nice and cheap though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2480300567&category=33631

that one has 2 bungs.

those are the cheap ones. there are others that are going for about $125 before shipping. good luck!

[20EVOLUTION01]

yeah, don't get the protege specific ones. get the mazda 626 from 97-on or the probe from the same era.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2480524849&category=33631

that one only has 1 O2 sensor bung, so you'll either have to make a second one at the midpipe with cat/testpipe or secure the second one somewhere with the MIL eliminator. it's nice and cheap though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2480300567&category=33631

that one has 2 bungs.

those are the cheap ones. there are others that are going for about $125 before shipping. good luck!

Hey, Thanks also one last question. Does the EGR Valve Bung hook up right to it or do I have to bend it a bit.

[tonkabui]

the EGR bung won't bend. you're gonna have to get a new one welded into place then either JB weld the one that comes with the header or find an appropriate cap for it.

[20EVOLUTION01]

One more question before I take the plung...........
I know I ask to many questions but I want to be right.

Any year from 93 to 97 from the 626 2.0 right. I will then have to weld the 2nd O2 Bung, if not on, and modify the end where the flange is that connects to the exhaust. Also I meant to say if the EGR line was bendable. It looks like it could bend. If not oh well.

[tonkabui]

One more question before I take the plung...........
I know I ask to many questions but I want to be right.

Any year from 93 to 97 from the 626 2.0 right. I will then have to weld the 2nd O2 Bung, if not on, and modify the end where the flange is that connects to the exhaust. Also I meant to say if the EGR line was bendable. It looks like it could bend. If not oh well.

oh, the EGR line isn't bendable either. we tried. it's easier to just make a new EGR bung. as for the 2nd O2 sensor, i say just get the one with 1 O2 bung and make a test pipe with the second O2 bung. then use the MIL eliminator. i am not sure if nogales has emissions, cause if it doesn't, don't bother with a cat unless you don't want to smell unburnt gas exhaust. it does stink.

[20EVOLUTION01]

oh, the EGR line isn't bendable either. we tried. it's easier to just make a new EGR bung. as for the 2nd O2 sensor, i say just get the one with 1 O2 bung and make a test pipe with the second O2 bung. then use the MIL eliminator. i am not sure if nogales has emissions, cause if it doesn't, don't bother with a cat unless you don't want to smell unburnt gas exhaust. it does stink.

(cool) thanks. Yea we don't have emissions here in Nogales. We get charged for it in the tags/license renewal. Only $1.50 a year. Its the Air Quality Charge. I guess I am going Catless. Well never mind about the EGR Valve Line. I will have to find a Bung for it but I found one I liked. Check it out.

This One will fit Right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2480806770&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

[20EVOLUTION01]

(poke) Hey, I am going to install my header today! I cant wait! ......(2thumbs)

[P5 Rally]

the OBX comes with both O2 bungs, but a MIL eliminator is required regardless when you remove the 1st cat!!

[shinzen]

Hmm, now the other benefit outside of emissions would "possibly" be that I could stay in sts class, if I put the precat in at a different location, since the factory emission control system would still be in place...

[dr_sarcasm]

I'm running Kevin's shorty "bundle of snakes." Perfect fit, excellent build and finish...

Installed it and ran a dyno check. Surprised the hell out of all of us during pulls. No increase in WHP, no increase in torque over previous non-header runs with Injen CIA and Magnaflow CB. Go figure. ES claims 7 hp increase and around 10 ft/lb increase in twist. Called Liphard and told him what the dyno said, even though the car is quicker by the clock. He was baffled; couldn't figure the dyno readings.
I was the test car for that particular design (2.0L) - as posted by me on this board and on the other U.S. board last summer.

I am quite surprised that ES is still selling that shorty, given that my dyno results at that time (once again, that was in the summer of '03) showed there were no noticeable gains to be had with that particular design (my car dynoed at 103.9whp without, and 104.5whp with the shorty installed; similar numbers in the torque department...). Some of you may recall that my wording used to describe my experiences was something to the effect of "...they're going back to the drawing board..."

Quite frankly, the only header I've ever seen REAL results (read: dyno sheets) from is AWR.




dr_"getting Ractive, 'cause it's cheap and the gains are just the same as the more expensive ones"_sarcasm.

[shinzen]

That's the part that kills me about the ES header- claims are crazy- 8-10whp and 20lb/ft- instead a total of zip and zip- that really kills their credibility for me

[Gen1GT]

Mo, did you have the stock cats and midpipe still? That's why it's misleading. You could put huge lumpy cams in the FS, and you're not gonna see gains because the head, exhaust and intake manifold aren't optimized for them. The same reason my 2.5" exhaust only got me 3 peak hp, because I'm still running the stock exhaust manifold, which has a 1.75" outlet. If I had done header first, THEN exhaust, my exhaust would have netted me more like 7-9whp.

I wouldn't judge the ES shorty header until the first cat and stock downpipe are replaced with 2.25" piping.

[dr_sarcasm]

I wouldn't judge the ES shorty header until the first cat and stock downpipe are replaced with 2.25" piping.You're right Josh, other than the shorty, the rest of the car was bone stock. Just to let you know, I'm not passing judgement on the header itself, nor the craftsmanship. The puzzling thing was that Cruisin had a shorty header installed from ES (an earlier design), that produced noticeable results - so I went in with skewed expectations, I guess.

You are, in all likelyhood, quite right - the gains would be had if you replaced everything around the shorty (high flow cat, bigger exhaust tubing, etc. etc.); the only thing that miffs me is that ES still claims those power numbers with just the shorty in place...



dr_"they should put a disclaimer stating what you pointed out"_sarcasm.

[p5sundevil]

well i dont know about that. if Es was posting those supposed gains on their site I would Assume(unless they state otherwise, which they didnt) that that is on a stock car.

Also the point of a shorty header is to keep the stock cat, so even if you plan on getting a DP with cat later they should not tell you you can buy their header but dont expect gains untill you also buy the DP.

I dont know I wasnt expecting much but at least 2-3whp more since our stock mani is so bad. but who knows.

[Gen1GT]

well i dont know about that. if Es was posting those supposed gains on their site I would Assume(unless they state otherwise, which they didnt) that that is on a stock car.

Also the point of a shorty header is to keep the stock cat, so even if you plan on getting a DP with cat later they should not tell you you can buy their header but dont expect gains untill you also buy the DP.

I dont know I wasnt expecting much but at least 2-3whp more since our stock mani is so bad. but who knows.
I'm sure the stock manifold IS bad, but it doesn't mean it's the weakest link. With a cat and crappy downpipe right after it, it wouldn't matter HOW well designed the header is. A 200whp engine is only a 50whp engine blowing into a straw. No different on how I only got 3whp peak with my 2.5" exhaust. It wouldn't matter HOW good my exhaust was, when the stock manifold is so bad. You need to work on your weakest link first.

[akhilleus]

the weakest link is definately the downpipe/midpipe. Besides being cast(weight) the manifold supposdly flows ok, But between the 1st cat and 2nd cat the tube diamater is less than 2", 1.8" i think. So even when i gutted my first cat i only saw minimal gains since it was all dumping into such a small opening. I think eliminating that will be one of the best benefits of my header.

[tonkabui]

yeah, the downpipe is pathetic. the midpipe's connection to the downpipe is equally unimpressive, but by the time it gets to the cat, it's ok. by the opening of the pipe after second cat, it's 2" big, so definitely eliminating the primary cat and downpipe will free up the most hp. then what is important is tuning the runners and collectors on the header to have the maximum exhaust gas velocity in order to further maximize gains. but getting rid of the cat and downpipe will yield the greatest results, no matter what header design you go with.

[p5sundevil]

Yah as of right now I have all but deicded to get the Ractive header and go from there, but I also like the 626/probe 4-2-1 OBX header with custom test pipe...should end up costing about the same either way....
damn indecisions,

[Bumble G]

bump for a thread I think should be stickied

[illwill84]

Ok.

You mention that Wagner offers direct bolt on replacements for the downpipe as well as the midpipe. They also offer high-flow cats.


Which of these pieces would I need on top of the shorty header??????

I am looking at getting some gains without going crazy with install. I just want something that will bolt on and be done with.

[scorch70]

Ok.

You mention that Wagner offers direct bolt on replacements for the downpipe as well as the midpipe. They also offer high-flow cats.


Which of these pieces would I need on top of the shorty header??????

I am looking at getting some gains without going crazy with install. I just want something that will bolt on and be done with. Unless you live in a state that does emissions testing, you should just go with a full header. Install isn't that difficult.

If you do have testing, then you can get the downpipe and midpipe with cat. Should see some gains from it.


scorch70

[Mike R]

Even with testing, the full header can easily pass. Maryland only plugs into the computer to find the O2 readings(on OBDII cars) . So if the O2 sensor fix is used it will be fine, unless they are super picky and actually check for a cat. Most of the time they won't. You wouldn't believe what I have gotten past the VEIP.