Cam Gears?

[Nutari]

What do these do? Can we use these on our P5's?

[twilightprotege]

they allow you to change when the valves open and close by moving the camshaft. they are especially usefull when you have aftermarket cams and you want to get every last drop of power (or torque) out of the engine. changing when the valves open and close more your power band around.

and yes they can be used on the p5....all fs-de's infact

[Matthew]

aem makes them

[Nutari]

I was just wondering cause I found these on a website.

MazdaSpeed Intake and Exhaust cam set

MazdaSpeed intake and exhaust camshafts pair. These MazdaSpeed cams can add up to 18 HP to the 2.0L motor. The MazdaSpeed camshaft set have an increased lift and also in an increase in duration .Very street-able and install with hand tools in a couple of hours.

Part Number PR-12154

and I was wondering if I can just buy THOSE .. install em, and get the 18hp...


edit :Site is http://www.shaneracing.com/protege.htm

[Matthew]

you will not get 18hp out of those cams.

[Nutari]

So.. What will I get? ^_^

[Nutari]

a headache?

[Matthew]

actually im butting in where twilight should be :) im sure hell tell you those are moderate cams at BEST and maybe will give you 4-5whp

[Nutari]

So ... ok.. are they worth getting?

[Matthew]

i would say not. if you REALLY want to stay N/A in get in it for the long haul, youll want to get BETTER cams, though you will need cams at some point. i have never looked into what lift and duration, thats something best saved for twilight or someone else more knowledgable.

[Nutari]

Yeah.. I cant afford FI (Turbo or super) so im gonna get every possible thing to upgrade my NA engine..

[Matthew]

thats what i said, until i realized how much money it would take to get any kind of respectable gains.

[Nutari]

well.. my goal is to be able to beat most stock common cars. Hondas, neons, etc.

[Nutari]

Hmm.. no one knows anything about camshafts? Gears? .. whatever... (yawn)

[Lil Freek]

NA is good for that.
you can probably get somewhere in the range of 135-140whp(?) with like $1500 of NA mods.

Only reason i would go turbo instead of NA is the VVVMMM-PSHH noise... i loooooove that.. but the power gains on NA are respectable, and you don't have to use high-octane gas.. so it is a cheaper and 'safer' way to go.

Just make sure the Mazdaspeed cams you buy are the jdm/jspec ones. I don't think the ones on the US MSP are any different than all the other FS-DE engines.

[Nutari]

*nods*

Yes.. gas is expensive..

I LOVE that pssstttchh sound.. but alas.. I would want to race.. and use more gas.. put strain on engine.. then BOOM.. new car..

so NA is safer, cheaper, etc etc..

[Lil Freek]

that it is.

nightowl has the jspec cams from protege5online.com... says it's not much of a difference until you get to the top-end, even then, it's not that much.

[twizyours]

No its not but it does amke big difereence in the powerband from 3.5 k on up and I think will have a further affect with other mods. Dont look at mods in a single form but the whole system. You really shouldnt buy mods at a time but have a plan for the system and powerband you want. I love my cams and was in my long term goal. No it will not add 15 hp. My next palns after next month is header cam gears, then work on the e-manage. I already got my egt for the emanage. Just need the software to tune it.

[Installshield 2]

No its not but it does amke big difereence in the powerband from 3.5 k on up and I think will have a further affect with other mods. Dont look at mods in a single form but the whole system. You really shouldnt buy mods at a time but have a plan for the system and powerband you want. I love my cams and was in my long term goal. No it will not add 15 hp. My next palns after next month is header cam gears, then work on the e-manage. I already got my egt for the emanage. Just need the software to tune it.Great post dude...exactly what he said...comparing one NA mod doesn't make a lot of sense unless that is all you ever plan on doing...For the biggest noticable difference in power you need to do A LOT of mods at one time...and then you can really see the gains...But a cam here, an intake there etc etc you don't notice as much...

I don't know who is starting all this NA thing being so time consuming, difficult, and expensive...You have to set goals, and compare what you want in the end...NA is not the cheapest way to get the most power...But you can an incredibly more fun to drive protege with way less than ANY turbo kit...It is cheaper to get 140whp NA than it is to even get half a quality Turbo kit together...But no one has done it yet...

To get a protege boosted reliably it takes like $3500...and how much power are these 3500 kits getting you guys? I am asking...I don't know, haven't followed up on it much...but I am guessing something in and around 170whp, little more little less maybe...I can almost 100% guarantee that with 3500 bucks spent on NA mods you could have almost that...within 10whp I would imagine...but only if you know how to install shit yourself...

So it is far from hopeless...either way you cut it to make a lot of power in either form, it will take very significant upgrades to the engine...

Anyway sorry I went off in the wrong direction...Twilight broke down what cam gears do...They allow you to independantly adjust the valve timing...Its tricky stuff, so read up on it to get a real good description...it would take me all day to do it...

the J-spec cams give negligable gains...if any...But I am using them now, and I definately noticed less choking around 5800rpm and up...Now it steadily pulls to readline, and max hp has probably moved a little closer to 6500rpm...when before (you can see it on every stock dyno chart) the curve slopes down at nearly 45 degrees after 5800rpm or so...IT may be that they only give a 2-4whp peak...but it will definatly help acceleration by keeping the same power for longer...thats confusing...you have an extra 700rpm or so of decent power in the revband, and before the cams...you don't...

[Lil Freek]

^^ actually, the ES turbo kit is 2700 US, and if you it's quite reputable and will give you about 160-170whp (with proper tuning)
for 3500, you could get like 200whp out of your car, or more.


either way.. NA is safer to go, for sure. and cheaper - in gas and for lower-end power... but getting to 200whp with NA would probably cost more than 3500 (if possible?)

[Installshield 2]

oh...yeah I don't follow most of the kits...The first sets to come out for protege's were well into 3 grand for a little over 6psi..

yeah 200whp NA is pretty much a pipe dream...at least a streetable 200whp...that would take tons of cash...160-170whp could be done with a standalone, and new pistons and rods...as well as the rest of the bolt-ons...My bet is that 160whp would be attainable with the MSP 10.7:1 pistons, and those are dirt cheap..in either case you will defiantely need some bigger cams...getting around 180-190whp is a different story though...

[Lil Freek]

yeah.
i'm on the fence for which i want.
i don't know much about NA stuff... i some turbo kits are still that expensive for 6psi.. ES claims you can do 12psi with their stage2.. but that doesn't include all the other stuff you'd need, like forged pistons, 3" catback, etc...

[Nutari]

Yeah.. well.. I have a '02 P5. I wanted to try something different. Get the camsshafts.. (I have to buy both right? Intake and exhaust) then bore out my throttle body...

[Lil Freek]

you don't have to buy both.
for optimal results, it's best to buy both.

[twilightprotege]

first point, never trust shaneracing. mazdaspeed intake cam? :bs:

second and most important point - please DONT get j-spec intake or mazdaspeed exhaust cams (ie repinned j-spec intake cams). what's the point? they are just stock cams afterall....

[twizyours]

they are just stock cams afterall....

Stock cams tuned for a different powerband and higher compression, not everyone want to live at 5k and above. Also unles you are going to try and tune 180 plus horsepower at like 5k and above. Also not everyone on hear is trying to just straight tune NA but looking for better options. I can guarantee you that most people would probally be happy with 150 whp especially most looking to keep their car as a daily driver (just looking for more omph). Also thes cam specs are a mildly aggressive cam just not outrageous ( which I know you know just stating) especcialy compared to a A-spec protege. I also believe that these cams will be good if I or anyone trys to go turbo. Part of the reason I said tune a system and have a goal and long term goal.

[akhilleus]

Personally i wasnt too disappointed with the JDM intake cam. Mind u i installed it by itself and I also had the cam gear timing changed at the same time. Changing the cam definately altered the powerband. Although it probably only gave me 5whp when installed, once i put on a true CAI it improved...and the combo probably came close to 10whp. As was mentioned no mod will show good gains unless it is paired with other necessary modifications. I mean u could drop aggressive cams but if u dont have an intake to feed the air and an exhaust to get rid of it u will never see impressive gains. Personally i think in regards to cams that the jDM is a good start but in terms of the exhaust, one must definately have one custom ground. I think the exhaust cam is just as or more important. In stock form the vehicle has a more aggressive intake cam, also the intake valves are larger. Exhaust end isnt like this so one really needs a high duration and high lift exhaust cam. But then no matter what and especially if u do custom as was already said u need cam gears.
In regards to custom cams i am thinking of also starting a thread that suggests possible cam specs, what they do specifically, and where to have them done.

[Gen1GT]

oh...yeah I don't follow most of the kits...The first sets to come out for protege's were well into 3 grand for a little over 6psi..

yeah 200whp NA is pretty much a pipe dream...at least a streetable 200whp...that would take tons of cash...160-170whp could be done with a standalone, and new pistons and rods...as well as the rest of the bolt-ons...My bet is that 160whp would be attainable with the MSP 10.7:1 pistons, and those are dirt cheap..in either case you will defiantely need some bigger cams...getting around 180-190whp is a different story though...
MSP have 10.7:1 pistons? Or are you refering to the FS-ZE pistons?

Lil Freak, I'm ALREADY using premium fuel on my NA buildup; because of my ignition timing. I plan on running 12:1 compression too, so I'll need it anyway.

NA is much more expensive than FI. I've already spent $950 on exhaust, and I haven't even done my $800 custom header yet. Mind you, what I'm doing is far from just slapping a bunch of parts together and hoping it makes power. I've thought things out, over and over, and came up with what I think is the best gameplan for achieving hp from NA. I'll let you in on it.

266 duration cams, with 9.52mm lift(have to switch from my HLAs to solid lifters, stronger springs and retainers)
Miata 10:1 pistons(balanced and possibly lightened, I'll have to see them first)
.5mm head gasket
Full 2.5" exhaust(including cat, res and muffler)
Custom header(1 3/4" primaries, 36" long, into 10" long collector, tapered from 3" to 2.5")
.5mm piston deck hight
Chambers CC's to 44cc
3 angle valve job
mild port and polish(I'll do as much by myself as I can)
300cc injectors, controlled by Greddy E-Manage
crank knife-edged and balanced to 10,000rpm(for reduced pumping losses and reliability)
rods lightened, balanced, polished and shot peened(for reliability)
mildly ported and polished intake manifold, with port matching
bored throttle body
RX7 Airflow Meter
Pod filter
adjustable cam gears
lightweight crank pully

My goal with all of that? 170 reliable horsepower to the wheels.....

[Installshield 2]

MSP have 10.7:1 pistons? Or are you refering to the FS-ZE pistons?


Not the North American MSP's...they have the stock 9.1:1 of all DE's...

The FS-ZE is something like 10.5:1 I believe...I always forget exactly...In 2001, when we got the MP3, Japan got a similar limited production Sport 20...I don't remember the name of it, but it used an FS-ZE with a mazdaspeed exhaust cam...and Mazdaspeed 10.7:1 pistons...When you hear dudes talking about the mazdaspeed exhaust/ZE intake cams...this is the car that exhaust cam came from (the stock ZE has an identical exhaust cam as the DE)...But the those MSP exhaust cams have been completely sold out for the most part...since it was a limited run, only X amount were made...and the rest still reside in running cars...The 10.7:1 MSP pistons are available through a number of companies though...notably corksport, which sells the set for like 180 bucks...

[Gen1GT]

Not the North American MSP's...they have the stock 9.1:1 of all DE's...

The FS-ZE is something like 10.5:1 I believe...I always forget exactly...In 2001, when we got the MP3, Japan got a similar limited production Sport 20...I don't remember the name of it, but it used an FS-ZE with a mazdaspeed exhaust cam...and Mazdaspeed 10.7:1 pistons...When you hear dudes talking about the mazdaspeed exhaust/ZE intake cams...this is the car that exhaust cam came from (the stock ZE has an identical exhaust cam as the DE)...But the those MSP exhaust cams have been completely sold out for the most part...since it was a limited run, only X amount were made...and the rest still reside in running cars...The 10.7:1 MSP pistons are available through a number of companies though...notably corksport, which sells the set for like 180 bucks...
Miscommunication there. When you said MSP, I thought you were refering to the Mazdaspeed Protege. They tend to call them the MSP. I didn't know you mean just Mazdaspeed in general. It all makes sense now.....

[Subghetto]

Those JDM cams suck get the wagnermotorsports cams, I want to go FI but I don't have that kind of money but I want to do some what an agressive amount of NA tuning in conjunction so when I go FI I will have even more power. With turboing you have to drop in a shit load of $$$$ in one shot with N/A you can take your time but shit will def get more expensive. I'am sticking to N/A for a while because I will have my P5 for a long time so I'am not in a rush.

[Installshield 2]

Miscommunication there. When you said MSP, I thought you were refering to the Mazdaspeed Protege. They tend to call them the MSP. I didn't know you mean just Mazdaspeed in general. It all makes sense now.....

Yeah no problem...all this abbreviation shit gets confusing...

[twizyours]

Those JDM cams suck get the wagnermotorsports cams, rush.



Do you have them?

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

NA is good for that.
you can probably get somewhere in the range of 135-140whp(?) with like $1500 of NA mods.

Only reason i would go turbo instead of NA is the VVVMMM-PSHH noise... i loooooove that.. but the power gains on NA are respectable, and you don't have to use high-octane gas.. so it is a cheaper and 'safer' way to go.

Just make sure the Mazdaspeed cams you buy are the jdm/jspec ones. I don't think the ones on the US MSP are any different than all the other FS-DE engines.

if u have an mp3 or msp they require 91 +

[akhilleus]

People should stop knocking the JDM intake cam. At this point besides custom they are your only option and the intake will show a decent gain... of course it has to be combined with other mods. By itself the intake dyno'd a 7whp gain on an otherwise stock car. And for $170 shipped from www.protegeonline.com they arent a bad deal either. Figure wagner's cams, if they are ever sold, cost $550, or $275 each. Seriously i could have custom made ones for cheaper than that.

[twilightprotege]

agreed....also, the j-spec intake with a big custom exhaust cam will work extremely well. it just doesnt show huge gains because the exhaust side is too restrictive