Stock Intake mod..

[Shane5425]

I have stock intake on a 1.6l with a k&n filter, this might have already been posted, but i found a way to basically make the stock system a type of ram air, i can feel a small boost after 30 mph.. here it is.. pretty simple took about 3 min...

cut the rubber seal on the front of the hood in a section that is shown in the picture, i noticed that the seal basically blocks the intake inlet, after 30mph my exhaust is alot louder, and i can accelerate a lil bit faster..

[VPower]

Anyone done that before?

[Gen1GT]

Ram-air isn't something that can be done in practicality. It'll only work when the engine is sucking in more air than the speed of the air coming in. Here's a weak example, but the best way I can explain it.

Lets say that your engine sucks in air at a velocity of 60mph at 5000rpm. In first gear you might get to what, 35mph, so you're probably allowing it to work all throughout first gear. You would get maximum airflow around 5000rpm at 60mph. I would assume you'd get best power too. But once the car is moving faster than the air it's ingesting, it would create a highpressure bubble around the intake, and air would be deflected around it. Does that make any sense whatsoever?

Use an empty pop bottle as an example. Hold the top of the bottle 4 inches from your mouth, and blow air into it. Not much air enters the bottle. If the air had somewhere to go out the bottom, it would flow more air.

Let me put it this way. If it worked, then car manufacturers would use. Pontiac is all about 'marketing', which is why the RAM-Air cars make no more power than their counterparts(ie, the RAM Air Trans-am makes no more power than the same engine in a Camaro)

[Brian MP5T]

You will find that there are holes all over the intake for water drainage... Not likely to give anything in the way of performance, but it's like a placebo...as long as you are happy!!

[Installshield 2]

Ram-air isn't something that can be done in practicality. It'll only work when the engine is sucking in more air than the speed of the air coming in. Here's a weak example, but the best way I can explain it.

Lets say that your engine sucks in air at a velocity of 60mph at 5000rpm. In first gear you might get to what, 35mph, so you're probably allowing it to work all throughout first gear. You would get maximum airflow around 5000rpm at 60mph. I would assume you'd get best power too. But once the car is moving faster than the air it's ingesting, it would create a highpressure bubble around the intake, and air would be deflected around it. Does that make any sense whatsoever?

Use an empty pop bottle as an example. Hold the top of the bottle 4 inches from your mouth, and blow air into it. Not much air enters the bottle. If the air had somewhere to go out the bottom, it would flow more air.

Let me put it this way. If it worked, then car manufacturers would use. Pontiac is all about 'marketing', which is why the RAM-Air cars make no more power than their counterparts(ie, the RAM Air Trans-am makes no more power than the same engine in a Camaro)
I see what you are getting at...but in reality it behaves a little differently...In a true ram air racing setup, the high pressure bubble can be forced all the way onto the intake valves (once the TB is open, around corners and what not the pressure gradient pushes on the butterfly)...and every valve cycle a burst of fresh air is shot in by the entire ram air system...it is lathargically similar to what a turbo does...the greater the speed, the stronger the air "shot" with every valve opening...

But that is through tons of research with tapered intake tracks...in which the opening for the intake is much larger than the throttle body(s) and tapers in diameter inward...

The stock peices are way different than a racing setup though...and there are strange gradients all through it most likely...

[Shane5425]

but i can tell that my exhaust is louder, so it is just breathing better?? it accelerates smoother threw the gears than what it did before... i guess i notice it more cause i put a k&n a week earlier too.. but in all reality that seal is blocking the inlet

and thanx for explaining that too me , that is very knowledgable to know..

[Installshield 2]

are you sure you are not hearing simply more of the intake vacuum? Stock intakes are designed mostly to keep the intake "honk" at a minimum...Even small mods, like what you did, can create a noticable increase in intake sound coming from the engine bay...

It would take some more serious internal adjustments to notice anything coming from the post combustion, unless you changes your exhaust system too...

[Shane5425]

no , its just around 3000 to 5000 my exhaust has a louder humm than usuall

[Gen1GT]

Could have just changed the resonant frequency of your intake. If that frequency is similar to the frequency of your exhaust, the sound increases exponentially.

[Shane5425]

who knows, lol, i like the sound now... cold air intake ---- i heard it was having problems on peoples 1.6l automatics, is that true?? i know that they had a TB on the MAF and A reprogramming of the pcm, i got the new MAF and i can get the pcm programed anytime if that is the cuase of cai not workin right on it...

[20EVOLUTION01]

I have been running with this set up for a while now. I have felt increase in power throughout the 3000 to 5000 range. This is what I was expecting from my FS engine. I only wish I had a place locally to dyno my car to see how much in fact I have gained in power. I dout I lost power though. I have modified the front box to accept a real filter. Oh, and about the noise from the intake, its true. My engine's intake noise is loud. People thought I had a bigger engine in my 2.0 but it was all in the intake.

[Shane5425]

nice set up...

[20EVOLUTION01]

No one has this set up as far as I know. It is not out on the market yet for a Protege. I, you can say, used different intake parts from different cars. So far so good but who knows if the different sizes in tubes are affecting or improving the performance. Looks cool though IMO. Hey Brian I like your setup. I was looking at it. Does the header affect the temperature of you intake to the Intercooler from the turbo? It looks like it is really close to the header. But all in all it looks great, something custom. Keep it up.

[Gen1GT]

I have been running with this set up for a while now. I have felt increase in power throughout the 3000 to 5000 range. This is what I was expecting from my FS engine. I only wish I had a place locally to dyno my car to see how much in fact I have gained in power. I dout I lost power though. I have modified the front box to accept a real filter. Oh, and about the noise from the intake, its true. My engine's intake noise is loud. People thought I had a bigger engine in my 2.0 but it was all in the intake.
I won't be able to pass judgement until I see dyno numbers. I looks like rice so far though....

[andyfatsax]

If you want a good mod for the stk intake....take that whole assembly out, the inlet and pipe that runs across the top of the rad, the resinator box and the pipe that goes with it. When it is done you should have a hole right below your filter and it will suck more air in and then you will hear the difference in your exhaust!!!

[20EVOLUTION01]

I won't be able to pass judgement until I see dyno numbers. I looks like rice so far though....

I don't know if any power did come out of this mod but it sure feels like it. I only did it cuz I like to experiment on my car and try to find new ideas. I have many other ideas to still try with also utilizing the stock box as well. But so far no dyno test at this time.

[Shane5425]

also u cant dyno test somthing like that, how would u tell how much wind is hitting your car at a certain speed, all the test would not be accurate at all

[20EVOLUTION01]

also u cant dyno test somthing like that, how would u tell how much wind is hitting your car at a certain speed, all the test would not be accurate at all

(uhm) I know there are in car dyno's available. I am looking in getting the program for my laptop but need the cash. There are sensors that measure air speed you know. Haven't you seen where people test cars on race tracks and they get the information from the mobile system? I guess not. Yes, the dyno that is stationary is the best but the mobile system should be accurate to a point or else they would not have them.

Man, didn't take long for someone to bash the idea. Oh, well. (piss)

[Gen1GT]

Take it to the track then.

When I put on my RX7 AFM, it felt faster to me. I ran smooth and well, and I got rubber easily in second gear. I put it on the dyno, and I was actually 7 HP DOWN! Gah. I had 114.9 before, and now I had 107.5. We played with the flapper door tension, leaned it out, and I left with 117.2.

My point? Butt dyno don't know shit.

[Shane5425]

lol.... if id go to the track i would feel dumb .. all the people that go to the track have classic cars with V8/s and blower motor sticking out the hood.... with tires that stretch the entire lenth of the rear end... they pull 10s and lower.. id be pushing it if i got 17s

[Gen1GT]

lol.... if id go to the track i would feel dumb .. all the people that go to the track have classic cars with V8/s and blower motor sticking out the hood.... with tires that stretch the entire lenth of the rear end... they pull 10s and lower.. id be pushing it if i got 17s
Who cares, it's all in good fun. Go out and have a good time. Talk trash to those guys for shits and giggles...."My Protege is gonna walk all over your Mustang"

[Shane5425]

i do that at bass comps.. people got vans and mustangs that bump pretty hard, they feel stupid when a protege can hit harder with 2 12 Diamond Audio M6.. then at that they are 300 watt rms under powered, i am only pushing 500 rms , they are rated for 800 rms... one of these days ill go to the track, it is an hour drive soo one wednesday ill be bored and go

[Gen1GT]

i do that at bass comps.. people got vans and mustangs that bump pretty hard, they feel stupid when a protege can hit harder with 2 12 Diamond Audio M6.. then at that they are 300 watt rms under powered, i am only pushing 500 rms , they are rated for 800 rms... one of these days ill go to the track, it is an hour drive soo one wednesday ill be bored and go
Here's some trivial for you. What does RMS stand for, and what does it mean?

[goldstar]

Here's some trivial for you. What does RMS stand for, and what does it mean?
RMS refers to root mean square.
RMS voltage = the square root of the voltage squared.
It refers to the most common mathematical method of defining the effective voltage or current of an AC waveform. This does not apply to DC circuits.

For example, in a sine wave the AC voltage rises to a maximum peak positive value, falls to the zero point and then rises to a maximum peak negative value. Because the voltage level is constantly varying according to its frequency in Hertz, there must be a constant effective voltage level that can be specified to describe the voltage level. This is the RMS voltage.

To further clarify, the peak voltage in a sine wave is the RMS voltage x the square root of 2 (1.414). So in a nominal 120 volt RMS AC house circuit, the peak voltage actually varies between 0 and ~170 volts positive and 0 and ~170 volts negative.

[Gen1GT]

RMS refers to root mean square.
RMS voltage = the square root of the voltage squared.
It refers to the most common mathematical method of defining the effective voltage or current of an AC waveform. This does not apply to DC circuits.

For example, in a sine wave the AC voltage rises to a maximum peak positive value, falls to the zero point and then rises to a maximum peak negative value. Because the voltage level is constantly varying according to its frequency in Hertz, there must be a constant effective voltage level that can be specified to describe the voltage level. This is the RMS voltage.

To further clarify, the peak voltage in a sine wave is the RMS voltage x the square root of 2 (1.414). So in a nominal 120 volt RMS AC house circuit, the peak voltage actually varies between 0 and ~170 volts positive and 0 and ~170 volts negative.
Your textbook answer is correct, but it also applies to DC. Just not directly. The signal a car audio amplifier amplifies, is an AC signal. Since music is so dynamic, it's impossible to measure it's output in a singular fashion. The wattage output is measuring using RMS, since musical signals are complex sine waves.

[Shane5425]

thats nice to know... i just know i dont have enough lol

[20EVOLUTION01]

(poke) I wanted to share a link to a site I found. I have been reading it and it has a lot of useful information. Even shows how to install the MazdaSpeed Oil Cooler. I thought it was a very informative site. I don't know if it has been posted in the forums before but I thought I might mention it. Shows which parts off other vehicle like engine parts and suspension can be used on our Protege's. Take the info as you may. Didn't know which thread to post it to. If it needs to be moved than please feel free.

http://web2.airmail.net/theman/protegefaq/

(cool)

[p5sundevil]

OK guys before anyone gets to full of themselves this case has been proven before, DGM had their ram air hood dyno'd and it did show a few whp gain. Then look at the acosta motorsports RX8 with a 3rotor swap, they have a friggin 3-4in hole cut into the front of their mazdaspeed bumper to feed a direct pipe into the turbo. that is ram air and functional and I'm sure it will show at least a little gain over having the air for the turbo coming from inside the engine bay like most of the time where the heat is.

as for home made ram air setups for our car, I doubt a hp gain will happen, maybe smoothen out the acceleration so you feel like there is more power but there really isnt.

[Gen1GT]

OK guys before anyone gets to full of themselves this case has been proven before, DGM had their ram air hood dyno'd and it did show a few whp gain. Then look at the acosta motorsports RX8 with a 3rotor swap, they have a friggin 3-4in hole cut into the front of their mazdaspeed bumper to feed a direct pipe into the turbo. that is ram air and functional and I'm sure it will show at least a little gain over having the air for the turbo coming from inside the engine bay like most of the time where the heat is.

as for home made ram air setups for our car, I doubt a hp gain will happen, maybe smoothen out the acceleration so you feel like there is more power but there really isnt.
You can't 'ram air' a turbo set up. The turbine and the turbine alone controls the amount of air feeding the engine. It will always draw in more air than the speed you're going anyway. The hole in the front is just to allow for the least restriction possible.

[20EVOLUTION01]

OK guys before anyone gets to full of themselves this case has been proven before, DGM had their ram air hood dyno'd and it did show a few whp gain. Then look at the acosta motorsports RX8 with a 3rotor swap, they have a friggin 3-4in hole cut into the front of their mazdaspeed bumper to feed a direct pipe into the turbo. that is ram air and functional and I'm sure it will show at least a little gain over having the air for the turbo coming from inside the engine bay like most of the time where the heat is.

as for home made ram air setups for our car, I doubt a hp gain will happen, maybe smoothen out the acceleration so you feel like there is more power but there really isnt.

You said it yourself, it is not grabbing hot air it is grabbing colder air from outside. Colder Air helps in making more power. Maybe thats why I have the filter mounted in front away from the heat. My set up is like ram air but I mostley did it for the cold air.

[goldstar]

You can't 'ram air' a turbo set up. The turbine and the turbine alone controls the amount of air feeding the engine. It will always draw in more air than the speed you're going anyway. The hole in the front is just to allow for the least restriction possible.This is not true. High performance piston-engined aircraft that used superchargers, 2-stage set-ups using turbos blowing into superchargers (such as the P-38 Lightning) or turbochargers alone all made use of ram air to increase the the inlet air density at the inlet to the blower. Since the forward velocity of high speed aircraft actually generated a positive boost independent of the blower, the inlet air was already above atmospheric at low altitudes or above the density/pressure altitude at any given flight level. The increased air density at the blower inlet (over and above that which would have occurred without ram) added to the increase in density due to the blower alone yielding a greater blower output air density than would have been possible without ram.

At this point you're probably laughing your head off since obviously at the road speeds our vehicles travel, positive boost will never be achieved from forward velocity alone. That's correct, but remember that inlet air density is primarily a function of two factors: pressure and temperature. Considering just the effect of pressure alone, it has been demonstrated that well-designed ram air systems on passenger cars can lead to a reduction in negative pressure in the inlet duct such that both the blower intake air density and cosequently the blower output air density is measureably increased over that possible without ram. In some cases, the use of ram has resulted in the onset of detonation in blown vehicles because of the resultant increased air density in the combustion chamber, as compared with the same vehicle w/o ram.

In fact, one passenger car ram air design was able to provide positive pressure in the inlet duct up to the atmosphere side of the air filter in most driving modes at higher speeds. Since this particular car was turboed, unwanted detonation was produced. The increased inlet air density due both to ram air and ambient temperature air clearly shows that the statement, "The turbine and the turbine alone controls the amount of air feeding the engine.", does not hold up. It's not the AMOUNT of air drawn in by the engine but rather its DENSITY that determines HP output.

Finally, I know that this is an NA thread but the beneficial effects of increasing air inlet density and providing air at the ambient temperature is equally applicable to FI or NA engines.

Incidently, if necessary I can provide references for every statement I have made in this post.

02 DX Millenium Red