Best MBC ?

[Wingman21]

Hi... Im currently looking for an MBC and want some recommendations :) !!!
Whats the difference in conception between those MBC :

Hallman
TurboSmart
JoeP

And which one would you take !?

Thanks...

[kwiktsi]

Joe P.!!!! lol

Seriously- they are all very similar in function as long as they are ball and spring. The wieght of the ball and spring will affect performance which is why mine uses a smaller ball in it. Mine also has the dual ball setup for overboost preotection. The hallman is just a nice piece of work though- he really did a good job with the new design, machined aluminum, laser etched, etc. Function is the same as his old one and similar to mine, the difference in price is all for the cosmetics of it. I am not familiar at all with the Turbosmart one though. Never even heard of them. I know Halman has been doing this the longest and I am not far behind him, so the time and experience is there with either of the two of us :).
Joe



Hi... Im currently looking for an MBC and want some recommendations :) !!!
Whats the difference in conception between those MBC :

Hallman
TurboSmart
JoeP

And which one would you take !?

Thanks...

[prospeed]

i had the hallman pro rx and had very little boost spike in the msp. also noticed better spoolup from the turbo.

[kwiktsi]

i had the hallman pro rx and had very little boost spike in the msp. also noticed better spoolup from the turbo.
Yeah- that is the nice thing about the ball and spring controllers- faster spoolup :).
Joe

[muohio]

I also have the Hallman and I'm very happy with the unit. Just don't get with a bleeder type MBC but a ball and spring.

[Wingman21]

I also have the Hallman and I'm very happy with the unit. Just don't get with a bleeder type MBC but a ball and spring.
How much for the one from Hallman !?

[bruce95fmla]

How much for the one from Hallman !?
I did a search on yahoo for it ...

http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/applic.html

[low_psi]

joe p!!!11one

[Rich24km]

I got a turbo XS dual stage MBC. I like it...;)

[mazdaspeed75]

Hi... Im currently looking for an MBC and want some recommendations :) !!!
Whats the difference in conception between those MBC :

Hallman
TurboSmart
JoeP

And which one would you take !?

Thanks... hEY i have a boostsciences mbc for sale 45.00 plus shipping pm if intersted

[Wingman21]

I did a search on yahoo for it ...

http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/applic.html
its more expensive than the one from JoeP (double price (huh)) !!!
Do you think it worths the extra bucks or its the same thing : ball+spring(dunno) !? Thanks...

[tekkie]

I had a JoeP also and it worked perfectly, I have upgraded to a EBC but thats just because I wanted to be able to change my boost inside of the car.

For the money you cant lose

[kwiktsi]

How much for the one from Hallman !?
www.boostcontroller.com (http://www.boostcontroller.com) has mine and Marc's (hallman). There should be prices there.
Joe

[TitanGray03.5]

Hallman by far... I use it on my 3000GT VR-4, I run 14psi no spikes, no leaks, to tight I blew my throttle adjustment screw out (boom01)

[Wingman21]

Is the one from JoeP come with a ceramic ball ?
Big difference in spike between with and without ?

[Matthew]

i hate my mbc because its a pita to adjust. i would rather have an ebc but they are hella expensive...how much was your turbo xs dual stage?

[tekkie]

I dont think the ball is ceramic on the JoeP.

I never had any spiking problems but the MSP still has the same problem as it does stock which is pressure loss, I had my MBC set to 11 and it would settle down to 9 which was perfect for me ;)

[Swerny]

I have Joe P's and it works as advertised, that is , perfectly.

[Matthew]

mine works great also, just a pita to adjust...feels like im not making any progress then all the sudden im at 10psi.

[kwiktsi]

What does having a bad o ring on your BISS have to do with the make of boost controller? (uhm) Even the hallman is not "leak free"- they have to "leak" otherwise, your wastegate would never close once the ball seats again.. That is one thing that I never understood about some people looking for boost leaks and thinking the MBC leaks. Hell, even EBC"s are bleeders and they leak more than a ball and spring MBC :).
Joe



Hallman by far... I use it on my 3000GT VR-4, I run 14psi no spikes, no leaks, to tight I blew my throttle adjustment screw out (boom01)

[kwiktsi]

If you saw the size of the ball in the hallman, you would see why they had to go ceramic in the RX model to keep weight down. The one in my controller is only 5/32" so weight is not an issue- that was part of the reason for my design being what it is. Under normal circumstances, the weight isn't a big deal and the controllers work perfectly, however, on low boost or very sensitive setups, the lighter ball was needed for his to work well in that application.
Joe



Is the one from JoeP come with a ceramic ball ?
Big difference in spike between with and without ?

[Notorious]

i say support joe p since hes been great when the msp first came out, he really supported the community.

i know im kind of hypocritical since i have the turbo xs but i used to have the joe p before it was stolen!

[505zoom]

www.boostsciences.com

Or buy Tony's. Boostsciences makes some great stuff, I am running their dual stage Accuboost setup and am very happy with it. They will be putting together a dual stage kit specific for the msp that will include a bracket for mounting the solenoid and mbc's, and a switch.

[kwiktsi]

Who's Tony :)?
Joe



www.boostsciences.com (http://www.boostsciences.com/)

Or buy Tony's. Boostsciences makes some great stuff, I am running their dual stage Accuboost setup and am very happy with it. They will be putting together a dual stage kit specific for the msp that will include a bracket for mounting the solenoid and mbc's, and a switch.

[hello2000]

Joe P. or if you want to spend more money Turbo Xs

[505zoom]

Who's Tony :)?
Joe

Tony is Mazdaspeed75, he has an Accuboost for sale for 45$, and he mentioned it on page 1 of this thread.

[kwiktsi]

OK, gotcha. Thought it was another MBC guy that I hadn't heard of yet. The Accuboost looks like a nice setup and should work well- looks very similar to the early hallman, just with an aluminum housing. The reliaboost looks like junk though, I have seen others like it (inline design) and they never work well.
Joe



Tony is Mazdaspeed75, he has an Accuboost for sale for 45$, and he mentioned it on page 1 of this thread.

[505zoom]

OK, gotcha. Thought it was another MBC guy that I hadn't heard of yet. The Accuboost looks like a nice setup and should work well- looks very similar to the early hallman, just with an aluminum housing. The reliaboost looks like junk though, I have seen others like it (inline design) and they never work well.
Joe

haha, sorry, should have specified in my first post.:) I actually ran the reliaboost for about 6 months and it worked great, it IS a ball and spring type controller. Max 1psi spike. BoostSciences is really good with their spike control. The only thing that I did not like about it was the fact that if it came apart from getting loose, you would have an overboost situation. The new Accuboost will go back to fully open if it comes apart, bringing the boost back down to near stock levels. The Accuboost rules!!! Sorry Joe, I do appreciate all the support that you have given to our community, but I thought you hated us now;). jk

[kwiktsi]

no problem. Yeah, that is the problem with inline controllers. Does the Accuboost have overboost protection though? I know a lot of controllers in that style will a)leak out the screw hole if the screw falls out and cause an overboost issue and b) depending on the size of the ball, if the screw falls out, the ball can actually go back into the housing and block the outlet side of it- totally blocking the wastegate from getting a signal- the early hallman did that.

As for spike protection it is just in the size and weight of the ball, spring rate and the diameter of the bleed hole. Small turbo cars are prone to spiking no matter what you put on them and if you have a controller that keeps spool slow enough to not spike, it hurts the guys with larger turbos. It is hard finding a setup that will work all around. If you wanted perfection, each individual CAR (not model) would need a controller custom tailored to it :). It is a win-lose situation :(..


Naahh, I don't hate you guys, just got tired of the baby BS and aggrivation. I have said a bunch of times- the majority of you guys are cool as hell, but it is the dicks that are the loudest and stand out the most :).
Joe



haha, sorry, should have specified in my first post.:) I actually ran the reliaboost for about 6 months and it worked great, it IS a ball and spring type controller. Max 1psi spike. BoostSciences is really good with their spike control. The only thing that I did not like about it was the fact that if it came apart from getting loose, you would have an overboost situation. The new Accuboost will go back to fully open if it comes apart, bringing the boost back down to near stock levels. The Accuboost rules!!! Sorry Joe, I do appreciate all the support that you have given to our community, but I thought you hated us now;). jk

[505zoom]

no problem. Yeah, that is the problem with inline controllers. Does the Accuboost have overboost protection though? I know a lot of controllers in that style will a)leak out the screw hole if the screw falls out and cause an overboost issue and b) depending on the size of the ball, if the screw falls out, the ball can actually go back into the housing and block the outlet side of it- totally blocking the wastegate from getting a signal- the early hallman did that.

As for spike protection it is just in the size and weight of the ball, spring rate and the diameter of the bleed hole. Small turbo cars are prone to spiking no matter what you put on them and if you have a controller that keeps spool slow enough to not spike, it hurts the guys with larger turbos. It is hard finding a setup that will work all around. If you wanted perfection, each individual CAR (not model) would need a controller custom tailored to it :). It is a win-lose situation :(..

The Accuboost does have overboost protection from both A and B. BoostSciences is going to tune the bleed hole, spring, and ball on my car to all but eliminate the spike for the msp. It is tough to make something that works for everyone though.


Naahh, I don't hate you guys, just got tired of the baby BS and aggrivation. I have said a bunch of times- the majority of you guys are cool as hell, but it is the dicks that are the loudest and stand out the most :).
Joe

I was just playin.;) I hear you though, there's a lot of kids here that didn't pay for the car with their own money and make it tough on everyone, especially the vendors. Have you seen my new setup Joe? I put down 235wtq at 10psi untuned, and I now have the mpi tuner... I'm comin for ya:)

[MikeyG_U2]

Is the Joe P. MBC that I see listed on boostcontroller.com a universal MBC? It doesn't mention any specific applications... From the sound of this discussion it sounds like an MBC needs to be vehicle specific, but I only see the one controller listed. Am I missing something? (other than my mind!)

[SirJaime]

Joe P is what I have if ther is a spike, its only 1 lb. got mine for $40 from boostcontroller.com
Hell I'm driving down the road watching my boost gauge instead of the road (silly)


Joe P.!!!! lol

Seriously- they are all very similar in function as long as they are ball and spring. The wieght of the ball and spring will affect performance which is why mine uses a smaller ball in it. Mine also has the dual ball setup for overboost preotection. The hallman is just a nice piece of work though- he really did a good job with the new design, machined aluminum, laser etched, etc. Function is the same as his old one and similar to mine, the difference in price is all for the cosmetics of it. I am not familiar at all with the Turbosmart one though. Never even heard of them. I know Halman has been doing this the longest and I am not far behind him, so the time and experience is there with either of the two of us :).
Joe

[1FASTMSP]

i have a Joe P MBC and am getting 2lb. spikes. is there any way to limit this JOE?

[Wingman21]

Are the spikes happening when you step on the gaz or when youre cruising at a constant speed (or boost) !?

[1FASTMSP]

just when i step on the gas...

[SirJaime]

When I drop it to da floor MAN... (lol) well not quit that far! You know how the throttle is on the MSP! Just kind of bogs out on the floor.




Are the spikes happening when you step on the gaz or when youre cruising at a constant speed (or boost) !?

[CatD399]

When I drop it to da floor MAN... (lol) well not quit that far! You know how the throttle is on the MSP! Just kind of bogs out on the floor.
why is that?

[SirJaime]

(poke) WHAT !

[project_msp]

heh, make your own :) simple, and save anywhere from 45 - 100 bucks :) i've posted about the proccess for a homemade boost controller, search away :)

[project_msp]

i have a Joe P MBC and am getting 2lb. spikes. is there any way to limit this JOE?

Maybe drill the bleed hole on the mbc housing (the t) a little bigger.

[1FASTMSP]

yeah, but i have no experience with these MBC's, is it really easy to mess something up?

[project_msp]

if you made the bleed hole too big, you could create a leak. which is actually a sorda ghetto rigged way of adjusting boost if you could call it that :) but yeah, making it too big could affect how your adjustment works...

maybe ask joep what size hole he would suggest?

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

T.V.V.C. it's nice, it's expensive and it's by Trust.

[kwiktsi]

The size in it :)- unless you have a bunch of the brass pipe tees sitting around to try all different sizes. The spike is due to the fast spooling turbo- it spools faster than the MBC and wastegate can respond. If you want to have no spike, you have to slow spool- kind of counter productive though. A 2 psi spike will not hurt a damn thing, so people need to stop sweating it :). Also, a lot of you are getting boost drop- it is holding a higher PSI, but dropping off by redline- that is not spike. That is the turbo losing efficiency at higher RPM's.

When I had my Blitz DSBC in my MSP, the only way to get it to not spike at all was to turn the spool (or whatever the adjustment was to control spike- it basically started to open the gate sooner than your set psi so it would spool slower) all the way down. I actually did it as R&D to see if I could improve the MBC in the MSP at all. Bottom line, the car would still spike a bit AND it ran like ass since it spooled slower- it lost a lot of it's low-mid range snap.

I don't care what anyone says ANY MBC will spike a bit *unless* it slows the spool a bit (like a bleeder or something). It is the nature of the beast and you can fight it all you want, you are just wasting time.

If you have problems with the boost dropping off at higher RPM's, you can try to tighten the gate some, but it will still drop. I had mine adjusted so it would run 10 psi with no controller, but even turning it up to say 14, it would still drop to about 12 psi by redline, turned it to 20-21 and it would drop to about 16- no matter what controller was in there. You want it to stop, drop the compression of the motor a bit and put a real turbo on it- no more spike or boost drop :). Everyone wants to say this controller does, this one doesn't, etc. Bottom line is they all function relatively similar and unless it is the same car on the same day at the same temp, barometric pressure, etc.- you cannot compare. There are sooooo many variables that will make one look like it works and the other not when if they were tested in an opposite order, you would get opposite results. I have had customers pull mine and install a hallman and love it and I have had customers pull a hallman and install mine and love it. Different conditions will make them all act slightly differently. I have seen Turbo XS controllers spike so bad on some cars and work perfectly on the same type of car, but someone else's. Too many things affect it to say this one has 0 spike, this one does, etc.. Also (not that I know any of you to know but I am just saying) a lot of what you hear on message boards is comming from someone one else who doesn't know what they are doing saying what they think is right and it becomes like gospel to everyone else. You don't know what it is exactly doing in their car. I had one guy put my MBC in a 98 GSX and when I asked him how it worked, he said perfect. I took the car for a ride one day and it was spiking to 20 psi and dropping to 13- I have no clue why, but it was far from perfect. Then you get the guy with a 1-2 psi spike who says it spikes like mad. Too many opinions of what is right and wrong and too many variables to compare.

As for the Greddy TVVC (mentioned later)- it may not spike much since it is honestly nothing more than an overpriced air regulator :). It spools too slow to spike :). You can accomplish the same thing with an $18 air regulator from Home Depot :).

I am not trying to be a dick, just want to put things in perspective based on real, long term experience and testing- not just work with my first turbo car like you will get a lot of here..
Joe


if you made the bleed hole too big, you could create a leak. which is actually a sorda ghetto rigged way of adjusting boost if you could call it that :) but yeah, making it too big could affect how your adjustment works...

maybe ask joep what size hole he would suggest?

[TurfBurn]

Best MBC:My MBC that is coming :).... wastegate control, spike protection, creep control, locking MBC dial with NO screws or nuts or crap to lose or have come loose!

About one week away from being available... and nothing will be sold or so forth until Antoine has me fully up to merchant member status... but the base MBC is going to be about 50 bucks (shipped).. and the options will be 15-30 each depending...

But Joe is right on things... most are just springs and balls... nothing fancy... I'm researching a lot of crap and spending a lot of money trying to make something different and cleaner... The biggest thing being the ability to adjust the timing on the opening of the wastegate, and also having protection against creep and boost spikes... right now we are holding to a maximum of 1-2 psi spike/creep...(without optional items... at 10 psi on an MSP) testing various conditions to see... and some of these add on components will also be built for adding to an EBC that has issues (like my creeping POS Greddy Spec-II)

My MBC also relies on generating a pressure drop through the system rather than a direct on/off switch of a straight ball and spring type pinching valve. That way you get normal response and behavior from your turbo other than the fact that it is biased by a certain number of psi to get you a higher max boost level.

Pm me if you have questions!

Thanks,

Steve

[kwiktsi]

Just curious what you are doing to control all the other odds and ends? I have long thought about building a billet ball and spring MBC with an adjustable bleeder port to fine tune it (similar to a needle valve on an RC nitro carb), however based on a) feedback from customers and b) the number of people who screw up installing and adjusting the MBC as it is, I decided not to at the time. A redesign is in the works (mostly for cosmetic reasons), but still don't know if I will be going that route- I strongly believe in the "KISS" theory- especially seeing all the stupid things I have had customers do over the years :).

Joe


Best MBC:My MBC that is coming :).... wastegate control, spike protection, creep control, locking MBC dial with NO screws or nuts or crap to lose or have come loose!

About one week away from being available... and nothing will be sold or so forth until Antoine has me fully up to merchant member status... but the base MBC is going to be about 50 bucks (shipped).. and the options will be 15-30 each depending...

But Joe is right on things... most are just springs and balls... nothing fancy... I'm researching a lot of crap and spending a lot of money trying to make something different and cleaner... The biggest thing being the ability to adjust the timing on the opening of the wastegate, and also having protection against creep and boost spikes... right now we are holding to a maximum of 1-2 psi spike/creep...(without optional items... at 10 psi on an MSP) testing various conditions to see... and some of these add on components will also be built for adding to an EBC that has issues (like my creeping POS Greddy Spec-II)

My MBC also relies on generating a pressure drop through the system rather than a direct on/off switch of a straight ball and spring type pinching valve. That way you get normal response and behavior from your turbo other than the fact that it is biased by a certain number of psi to get you a higher max boost level.

Pm me if you have questions!

Thanks,

Steve

[TurfBurn]

each of the features is a seperate component... I will also probalby "lock" some of the components so that they are preset... it's pretty simple with the wastegate control.. set it at 5 psi, or 8, or 11 or whatever... lock it and ship it... I'll be building some test fixtures for calibrating parts before they get sent out.. and at least initially I'll try to actually test most of them on a vehicle before they go out... But yeah I have concerns over the people who may have difficulties setting their system up. the MBC's aren't the absolute most simple thing to dial in... you can easily overboost if you go too nuts with your turns and so forth.... so yeah! But in general the wastegate and control and the creep control will either be set by me intially and left adjustable, or locked, or they'll be user setable depending... may have to add a fee for the labor it takes to get things set. All depends on sales too!

We tested the latest revisions tonight and they worked absolutely fantastic... very excited with our progress!!!

[CONEH8R]

We tested our wastegate control tonight and its working wonderfully. Spool up time is cut in half, it's crazy fast on the spool up. (running 9psi right now) All tests are being done on my car right now.

But i'm the web guy and own the test car. Steve's the one with the degree. But we're just trying to offer another option for the MBC market.

[TurfBurn]

Damn us mechanical engineers when we get to thinking ;).

[kwiktsi]

Am I confused or correct in thinking that you are "pre setting" the MBC's before they leave for xx psi?? You are playing with fire there if that is the case. Every car will react differently- it will even vary a bit from MSP to MSP- forget about it going on other cars like that. I hope I misunderstood that part :)...
Joe

Damn us mechanical engineers when we get to thinking ;).

[jflo]

yeah, that seems a little illogical to me...no two cars are the same, and most often, they're not in the same area (factoring in weather conditions/other variables). if you wanted to set a boost controller to a specific PSI, you'd probably have to go electronic otherwise invent a really complex MBC that can read pressure and adjust accordingly by means of using the vacuum/boost source

[TurfBurn]

Am I confused or correct in thinking that you are "pre setting" the MBC's before they leave for xx psi?? You are playing with fire there if that is the case. Every car will react differently- it will even vary a bit from MSP to MSP- forget about it going on other cars like that. I hope I misunderstood that part :)...
Joe
yes you misunderstood me on that one... the MBC will never be preset.

I was talking about presetting the spool up control devices.. but largely from a simplicity standpoint... as I do realize that it may not translate completely... In theory based on the mechanics of how things all work presetting the spool control should not be an issue.... but i do follow what you are saying, and definitely consider your opinion to be rather important considering your experience with everything!

[yashooa]

- I strongly believe in the "KISS" theory- especially seeing all the stupid things I have had customers do over the years :).

JoeI have something for you to Kiss, MY HAIRY WHITE ASS! wait let me shave a spot for you. (flame)
Oh look I'm Little Joey P and I am hear to own ju all...(eyeballs) (eek2) (eyeballs)

[yashooa]

TURFBURN? What in the hell kind of name is that? Some kind of hippy code for pothead?

[Matthew]

joep is one of the biggest asshole vendors on this site. i wish my kit hadnt come with one of his boost controllers...though i have no complaints with the controller, i wouldnt have ever bought one with his business attitude.

[TurfBurn]

Matt! :) I swear I cross paths with you everywhere :). Good to see you again!

I was actually thinking JoeP has been rather nice and helpful and friendly at the least in this thread... (which is the first time I've ever been exposed to him). So... I can't speak to that.... But he's been helpful and informative and not at all hostile toward me so far in discussing the MBC's which is rather something considering I'd technically be a competitor of his in one form or another (although fractionally small at this point!)

But can't we keep this thread OT and leave vendor comments to the vendor reviews section??? I cringe everytime a vendors reputation comes up... I think you know why/who! LOL

[yashooa]

joep is one of the biggest asshole vendors on this site. i wish my kit hadnt come with one of his boost controllers...though i have no complaints with the controller, i wouldnt have ever bought one with his business attitude.Dont make me kick ju in jur ballz Mang!(enguard) (nuts) (enguard)

Joe was nice to me so it must vary depending on his Dopamine levels.

[CONEH8R]

TURFBURN? What in the hell kind of name is that? Some kind of hippy code for pothead?

Has to do with flying, and being low to the ground. LOL.

[kwiktsi]

LOL, I don't know if I have ever read a post from you that doesn't make me piss myself :).

Joe


I have something for you to Kiss, MY HAIRY WHITE ASS! wait let me shave a spot for you. (flame)
Oh look I'm Little Joey P and I am hear to own ju all...(eyeballs) (eek2) (eyeballs)

[TurfBurn]

Has to do with flying, and being low to the ground. LOL.
aka an old nickname from my days as a computer flight simulator playing junky, and also an homage to all the RC airplanes I've wrecked over the years....

[yashooa]

Has to do with flying, and being low to the ground. LOL.So it means he is flying low not HIGH vis a vie "burning the grass" wink, wink.

[kwiktsi]

Thank you, your opinion will be filed. Now, as turfburn said- this is about his controller and I was just tossing some thought his way, you don't like me or something- that's fine. One thing though- I *ONLY* treat people how they treat me and/or as they themselves come accross, so... If I was an asshole to you........... You want to haven this discussion, start a new thread and I will go head to head with you if you'd like, but respect (if respect is something you know how to show for ANYONE) turfburn and stay out of his thread with this immature BS.

Joe


joep is one of the biggest asshole vendors on this site. i wish my kit hadnt come with one of his boost controllers...though i have no complaints with the controller, i wouldnt have ever bought one with his business attitude.

[TurfBurn]

So it means he is flying low not HIGH vis a vie "burning the grass" wink, wink.
LOL... nice :) Plenty of the grass gets burned in madtown, but none by me!

[yashooa]

LOL... nice :) Plenty of the grass gets burned in madtown, but none by me!Holy Sweet SHITBALLS! MADTOWN? Let me guess it's right across the way from "Happyville" No Joey don't talk to them they are from, the Mom looks down and whipsers, Madtown...shhh don't say it too loud they might hear you.

[TurfBurn]

Holy Sweet SHITBALLS! MADTOWN? Let me guess it's right across the way from "Happyville" No Joey don't talk to them they are from, the Mom looks down and whipsers, Madtown...shhh don't say it too loud they might hear you.
Madison, WI... also known as madtown for the politics, heavy drinking, rampant pot, and generally crazy atmosphere because of the huge college. But I wouldn't recommend letting little Joey down on State Street for any length of time... as Joey will be rapidly corrupted.

[kwiktsi]

LOL- sounds like my RC flying :). I have about 8 planes here now (all electrics), got out of the nitros a while back. there was one guy in an RC forum with the screen name "plane planter"- if only I had thought of that :). Lawn dart fits also hahah. Anyway, I read your reply to my question about pre setting it, glad I was mistaken!!! Feel free to contact me for any advice you may have- I have helped several people design MBC's over the years, so I don't mind helping- even if they are competitors. I am not in this for the $$$ and most sales I can get- as some people may accuse me of- after all, and don't mind helping others one bit.

Joe


aka an old nickname from my days as a computer flight simulator playing junky, and also an homage to all the RC airplanes I've wrecked over the years....

[kwiktsi]

Haha, Joey already is corrupted- after all it *did* take me 31 years to finally settle down, get married and all that other fun stuff- but the wedding is a few months away so there is still time :)...

Joe


Madison, WI... also known as madtown for the politics, heavy drinking, rampant pot, and generally crazy atmosphere because of the huge college. But I wouldn't recommend letting little Joey down on State Street for any length of time... as Joey will be rapidly corrupted.

[TurfBurn]

well congrats on the wedding! My best friend just got married last week.... was a lot of fun!

I have 3 or 4 nitro planes in various places... one acrobatic (my favorite) one beater for air to air combat (the streamer tail cutting version), and one or two trainers for letting other people crash my toys :).

Thanks again too for all the help and insight.