What psi can i go!

[Crazyk20201]

so far my MSP is completely stock, i was thinking of getting a BOV and IC pipes first. how much better is a 2.5" turbo back aftermarket than the stock MSP package exhaust?

Also b4 i do anything i am getting the boost guage and MBC, what is the factory boost setting and how much can i squeeze out of the stock system. the T-25 is also the same turbo the 2g eclipse has and i know those guys set their boost to 15-17 psi!

[project_msp]

honestly, i would suggest doing other mods before uppin' your boost. Although with colder spark plugs you could probably "safely" run 8-9 with no problems. But then again, I can't promise anything :)

btw, i think the stock boost level is 6.5 (psi)

[Crazyk20201]

well is there a guide anywhere on what mods to do and in what order? that would be extremely helpful!

[Heathen23]

so far my MSP is completely stock, i was thinking of getting a BOV and IC pipes first. how much better is a 2.5" turbo back aftermarket than the stock MSP package exhaust?

Also b4 i do anything i am getting the boost guage and MBC, what is the factory boost setting and how much can i squeeze out of the stock system. the T-25 is also the same turbo the 2g eclipse has and i know those guys set their boost to 15-17 psi!
BOV and IC pipes are basically no net gain. Why do those first? Largest gains for the money would be going catless with a 2.5 or 3 inch exhaust. It all depends on your goals though so good luck. I would also agree with building the car with bolt ons first (if that's your plan) before the mbc.

[noclue119]

so far my MSP is completely stock, i was thinking of getting a BOV and IC pipes first. how much better is a 2.5" turbo back aftermarket than the stock MSP package exhaust?

Also b4 i do anything i am getting the boost guage and MBC, what is the factory boost setting and how much can i squeeze out of the stock system. the T-25 is also the same turbo the 2g eclipse has and i know those guys set their boost to 15-17 psi!you can run 15 psi.... Blow up the engine and that would be 1 less car on the market and raise my car's value.... but really get midpipe and exhaust first..

[Heathen23]

well is there a guide anywhere on what mods to do and in what order? that would be extremely helpful!It really depends upon your goals, there is no "one right way" really. There are better ways than others but each modification should make sense with your goals IMO.


you can run 15 psi.... Blow up the engine and that would be 1 less car on the market and raise my car's value.... but really get midpipe and exhaust first..
If you think the value of a protege is ever going to go up you are crazy. It's an econobox not a rare handcrafted italian sports car or something.

[Swerny]

You can forget about running 15-17 PSI unless youare DiscreetSpeed and have a whack of supporting mods.
Stock boost is 6.9 PSI.
Adding the boost gauge is fine, the MBC should come later.
Look at exhaust or at least midpipe. The stocker is restrictive with 2 cats.
You can get hardpipes that come with a CAI.
Colder plugs, and then up the boost to about 10-12 psi max.
You will probably need a fuel cut defender as well becuase you're going to hit cut for sure.

[Gbourdon]

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31763

[BOOSTR]

Most exhaust systems will yield 5 hp at best. But they look better and flow better than stock. I like the Greddy SP2 system.

The stock boost is 6.9 psi. You will not be able to run 15-17 psi in stock trim. The t25 could handle, but the PCM will not allow it due to its tuning.

Get your guage installed and see what you are boosting. Then you can start to tinker with your boost. Caution goes a long way. Our cars are just not set up to run 15 psi of boost in stock or near stock trim. It runs 100% better at 10 psi of boost.

[PhreakV]

get the colder plugs, fmic, exhaust and then get an Ebc. you really don't want to spike that badly. if you're looking for a list of mods (in an order) to do to your car do a search within the MSP performance section and the general performance section (you'll prolly get the best info in the general section).

btw, boosting to match the 2g eclipses will generally surpass the efficiency of the turbo and you'd be much better off trying to find that point or upgrading the turbo. IMO.

[Heathen23]

Most exhaust systems will yield 5 hp at best. But they look better and flow better than stock. I like the Greddy SP2 system.


What? Maybe a catback but anything that's 2.5 or bigger that removes the cats is more like 13whp or better. Sorry, I'm being difficult today.

[Subghetto]

you can run 15 psi.... Blow up the engine and that would be 1 less car on the market and raise my car's value.... but really get midpipe and exhaust first..
Discreet is running 15 psi daily and his engine is ok so.... (screwy)

[low_psi]

don't take this as an insult, but it sounds like you're pretty new to the car scene. this being the case, i suggest you stay away from a boost controller, because unlike the DSM's the MSP's can't handle a lot of boost stock.

start with bolt-ons such as: intake, exhaust, fmic and then start thinking about boosting higher. Catless DP > 10psi on an otherwise stock MSP.

[Crazyk20201]

yea sorry i am very new to Mazda's, i am just going off what my friend knows about his DSM, he knew they were the same turbo and wasn't sure about mazda speed packages, he thought the exhaust was a full 2.5", so basically the MSP package is worthless if you start modding, you have to rip it all off anyway! ok thanks guys, i was just curious as to how different the DSM and MSP were, i will search frantically to expand my mazda knowledge!

[low_psi]

yea sorry i am very new to Mazda's, i am just going off what my friend knows about his DSM, he knew they were the same turbo and wasn't sure about mazda speed packages, he thought the exhaust was a full 2.5", so basically the MSP package is worthless if you start modding, you have to rip it all off anyway! ok thanks guys, i was just curious as to how different the DSM and MSP were, i will search frantically to expand my mazda knowledge!
i hear ya, 2 of my friends have 2nd gen DSM's and run 15psi daily w/ just an intake and BOV. my one friend ran 17psi for a while and in december he blew his turbo.

unlike the DSM's the MSP's T25R is ball bearing, thus the R. The stock MSP piping is quite restrictive with 2 cats and various small diameters. You can go custom if you want and get a turboback exhaust that uses the stock muffler though. the MSP's and DSM's both come with that crappy lil sidemount IC, so I'm sure you're aware of the heatsoak problem this creates on both cars.

the tuning is what holds you back from upping the boost like a DSM. once you've got the bolt-ons covered, you'll be amazed with how much power you can pull out of your little turbo with proper fuel/spark control.

goodluck on the searching :)

[Heathen23]

yea sorry i am very new to Mazda's, i am just going off what my friend knows about his DSM, he knew they were the same turbo and wasn't sure about mazda speed packages, he thought the exhaust was a full 2.5", so basically the MSP package is worthless if you start modding, you have to rip it all off anyway! ok thanks guys, i was just curious as to how different the DSM and MSP were, i will search frantically to expand my mazda knowledge!
It's not worthless at all. Not many cars handle like it. And with bolt-ons it becomes so fun to drive it's impossible to beat for the price IMO

[TooleBox]

each MSP is completely different... some can boost 12+ psi on stock fuel and be fine... others (like mine) run perfectly stoich at 7-7.5 psi...

the only way to know what you can do on YOUR car is to take it to a dyno and run your boost changes on a wideband A/F meter

you can see my dyno and A/F map here:

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57277

[KyRaceFan]

23psi of boost on 87 octane.. Works for me.


Dude for the love of god, read the god damn forums and do 5 seconds of searching before you make a new thread.

kthx

[KyRaceFan]

well is there a guide anywhere on what mods to do and in what order? that would be extremely helpful!
its stickied at the top of the MSP forum, and i linked it in one of your other threads. :mad:

[KyRaceFan]

i hear ya, 2 of my friends have 2nd gen DSM's and run 15psi daily w/ just an intake and BOV. my one friend ran 17psi for a while and in december he blew his turbo.

unlike the DSM's the MSP's T25R is ball bearing, thus the R. The stock MSP piping is quite restrictive with 2 cats and various small diameters. You can go custom if you want and get a turboback exhaust that uses the stock muffler though. the MSP's and DSM's both come with that crappy lil sidemount IC, so I'm sure you're aware of the heatsoak problem this creates on both cars.

the tuning is what holds you back from upping the boost like a DSM. once you've got the bolt-ons covered, you'll be amazed with how much power you can pull out of your little turbo with proper fuel/spark control.

goodluck on the searching :)
DSM's also have 450cc injectors stock, and blocks that handle 500hp with upgraded head bolts..
Totally different engine.
TOTALLY.

[yashooa]

I with start off with something light some where around 18PSI. (laugh)

[low_psi]

DSM's also have 450cc injectors stock, and blocks that handle 500hp with upgraded head bolts..
Totally different engine.
TOTALLY.
indeed, the 4g63 and sr20 are some of the strongest factory 4cyls. i just didn't feel like typing all the differences :)

[KyRaceFan]

yea, the injector size also is a huge factor in other wise stock DSMs running such high boost.. they have the fuel to do it.
Our car simply doesnt have enough fuel to do so stock...
If we had 450s, then it'd be ok to run 15 daily... *sigh*

[low_psi]

yea, the injector size also is a huge factor in other wise stock DSMs running such high boost.. they have the fuel to do it.
Our car simply doesnt have enough fuel to do so stock...
If we had 450s, then it'd be ok to run 15 daily... *sigh*
heh, yep. i love how my friend's evo3-16G will spike to 22psi, untuned and not kill his motor... also pegged out a 2bar gauge on his T25 once... crazy strong engines.

[MSPinVA]

I thought the DSM cars used a Mitsu turbo stock....?? Oh well.

I think you should first get a full exhaust and then see how well your car pulls. Then go intake and hardpipes/intercooler THEN play with the boost.

[KyRaceFan]

I thought the DSM cars used a Mitsu turbo stock....?? Oh well.

I think you should first get a full exhaust and then see how well your car pulls. Then go intake and hardpipes/intercooler THEN play with the boost.
1g 90-94, used a td05-14b Mitsu turbo; 2g 95-99, use a garret t25..
The 14b turbo flows much better than the t25, actually very similar to the stock t25r or whatever turbo you wanna call it that comes on our car.

[DiscreetSpeed]

10-12psi

[Notorious]

agreed, one of my friends has a 450 whp stock block sr20. 20 psi on t3/t4 turbo. Those motors are amazing.




indeed, the 4g63 and sr20 are some of the strongest factory 4cyls. i just didn't feel like typing all the differences :)

[DiscreetSpeed]

The stock boost is 6.9 psi. You will not be able to run 15-17 psi in stock trim. The t25 could handle, but the PCM will not allow it due to its tuning.
this is wrong...if you need an explantion why then you know very little enough to make a statement as you did.

[Notorious]

Higher octane to run higher boost is not always the answer. The ECU has far too advance timing for higher boost applications, not to say that you can't do it or you shouldn't do it. But a car running 18 psi, over twice what it was designed to do probably should have some sort of aftermarket computer support. Whether it be standalone, piggyback, or reflashed/reworked ECU.




this is wrong...if you need an explantion why then you know very little enough to make a statement as you did.

[BOOSTR]

All I know is that the car,s tuning will not let you run on the street that much psi in stock trim. You will need mods to boost above 10-12 psi safely.

The factory boost setting is 6.9.

I don't really give a crap one way or the other. I think the fact that I have 3 turbo cars speaks for itself. None of them are stock. I answered the question based on my experience with my MSP and the other cars. No I am not an ASE certified mechanic, but I do know more than the average idiot.

Rather than saying "uhhhh or I am wrong" ....be specific or shut your piehole!

[Notorious]

...can you explain that to me? ?
Why, I'm glad you asked. California has 91 octane gas. Will 15 psi on 91 destroy the motor.. well that depends. Knock and detonation are not determined by just boost pressure and fuel octane. Ambient temperature, oxygen content, fuel pressure, ecu timing and timing adjustments, spark intensity, cylinder heat retention, and flow rate are all variables that no 2 cars will be exactly alike, even if both cars are stock, unless mazda's have no deviation and everything is 100% exactly alike. I believe you have a FMIC and catless, that changed many of in above variables and now significantly changed you intake charge temperature and flow rate, when those change everything else listed above will also change.

With that said is MSP magical??? hmmm might be special to you, but it just so happens that your variables are in your favor and you are able to run that boost pressure. The fact that 93 octane is available where you live is an added bonus for you. With so many variables another car running 15 psi might blow, I personally know of one that did. If you took the time to read my above post you would note that I said that you "probably should" run engine management, I didn't state that you "can't" run without it. Some people choose to go closer to the edge and there's others who would rather have a larger safety margin. I only quoted your post earlier so other readers would have a point of reference of what I'm talking about, it wasn't quoted as a direct rebuttal and refusal of your car.




did i say it was the answer? do you know if we need higher octane to run 15psi? or did you read it? ive been runnin 93 for a bit now and no signs of detonation...can you explain that to me? i must have some magical msp?

[DiscreetSpeed]

Why, I'm glad you asked. California has 91 octane gas. Will 15 psi on 91 destroy the motor.. well that depends. Knock and detonation are not determined by just boost pressure and fuel octane. Ambient temperature, oxygen content, fuel pressure, ecu timing and timing adjustments, spark intensity, cylinder heat retention, and flow rate are all variables that no 2 cars will be exactly alike, even if both cars are stock, unless mazda's have no deviation and everything is 100% exactly alike. I believe you have a FMIC and catless, that changed many of in above variables and now significantly changed you intake charge temperature and flow rate, when those change everything else listed above will also change.

With that said is MSP magical??? hmmm might be special to you, but it just so happens that your variables are in your favor and you are able to run that boost pressure. The fact that 93 octane is available where you live is an added bonus for you. With so many variables another car running 15 psi might blow, I personally know of one that did. If you took the time to read my above post you would note that I said that you "probably should" run engine management, I didn't state that you "can't" run without it. Some people choose to go closer to the edge and there's others who would rather have a larger safety margin. I only quoted your post earlier so other readers would have a point of reference of what I'm talking about, it wasn't quoted as a direct rebuttal and refusal of your car.lol good point on the 1st paragraph.....pos 91 eh? dang.
no doubt anyone boosting should run some kind of engine management when boosting high...but if you have an ecu like ours that dumps more than enough fuel at 9,10,11,12 for those on 93 you dont need to run one...it would be better no doubt about that, but it is not a nessesity(spelling?). thats what im saying....there is more than one or 2 people boosting higher than 9 psi with little to no mods...the ecu is better than most here tend to make it out to be..

[Notorious]

I actually tend to agree, I run insanely rich and do this date, I never heard detonation or pinging even when my wastegate line broke off.




lol good point on the 1st paragraph.....pos 91 eh? dang.
no doubt anyone boosting should run some kind of engine management when boosting high...but if you have an ecu like ours that dumps more than enough fuel at 9,10,11,12 for those on 93 you dont need to run one...it would be better no doubt about that, but it is not a nessesity(spelling?). thats what im saying....there is more than one or 2 people boosting higher than 9 psi with little to no mods...the ecu is better than most here tend to make it out to be..

[joka1]

not to get too off the point since i dont have a msp but i spike to 18.1 and i still drive everyday with perfect compression but i run 14 everyday!! not a msp but last time i checked it was the same engine!!!!!
rob

[DiscreetSpeed]

not to get too off the point since i dont have a msp but i spike to 18.1 and i still drive everyday with perfect compression but i run 14 everyday!! not a msp but last time i checked it was the same engine!!!!!
robwhat turb do you have?

[spacemonkey]

b4 you do anything you should try using the search button. Most of us had our cars for 1 or more years and this topic has been covered or beaten to death. people say 9-10 psi flashed 12 unflashed. I know your a newb...and since the MSP are dirt cheap now we get a bunch of young newb who has never driven a turbo car or used a forum. sorry didnt bother reading the thread so you might have already addressed this.

but of course you never know till you try...so go ahead and boost 15 psi. Dyno it and look for knocking and check out A/F ratio and etc. Dont have to ask...just go to a good local tunning shop and they should help you find the best setting with out blowing your engine. Common mistake is people throw a boost controller without proper tunning. They just hear it runs rich so they assume they can up it to 15 or whatever psi.

And again...turbo101 for you...dont compare our cars engine to our engines. Your 2g eclispe guys is a totally diffrent engine then ours. There engines 4g63s are designed for FI or Force Induction. Force induction engines are usually forge...thus they are called "bullet proof." Just because a SR20DET spits out 500 hp at whatever PSI doesnt mean our cars can do the same.

Just like to ilitterate that all your "simple" question lies in the button in the upper right hand corner labeled "search" If you cant find anything then ask...if not your threads cloud up and then you have to search through a million threads labeled "MSP Boost..." Not cool for the new guys who actually use the search button. The moderators did a excellent job setting up sub-forums just becasue of this. I do have to thank you for not opening another HKS, Greddy TurboXS BOV thread. Or another CAI vs SRI thread. You know what I mean once you visit this board often enough.

[spacemonkey]

Oh and boost controller probally not the best way to go yet. Try simple mods that are pretty common on turbo cars. Like full exhaust, intake and etc. Maybe upgrade motor mounts and shifter bushing. But your shouldnt boost the speed up to 15 psi out the box...not without proper engine managment and tuning.

[spacemonkey]

The stock boost is 6.9 psi. You will not be able to run 15-17 psi in stock trim. The t25 could handle, but the PCM will not allow it due to its tuning.Im sure discreet would like to hear why. Again lots of people tell other what not to do without actually knowing themselves or have any proof...everone thinks they are a engineer. I hear people push 12 psi and blow there engine...I hear other run on 12 psi with 30,000 miles with no problem. If you have the balls to try then go for it....dont try to talk them down or outta it. If someone doesnt push the limit or try well never know...we are going to speculate and form BS theories.

Case and point...SRT trannies go at 300 whp...um someone just put out 500 to the wheels on stock internals.

Case and point Enjuku SR20 powered S13 240sx...is spitting out 500 or close to 600 hp on stock bottom. Something im sure people warned others about.

Now you know it can be done. MAybe our cars can handel more and no one has ever tried cuz they are too scared or are talked out of it. I say we need more people like discreet to push the limits of our cars and find out what it can or can not handel. WE dont exaactly have companies like greddy or turboXS that does this stuff (pushing it to the limit)...so I guess it up to us to find what it can or can not do.

And you have to remember that Discreet runs at 15 psi ON RACE GAS...that makes a big diffrence on the dteonation part of the equation. Dont want to do that on regular pump gas. I say he breaths new life into what other considers a POS turbo protege. The theroy that it cant handel more then stock boost is spreading like wild fire...and Im a bit bumed out on my purchase. I didnt fork out all this cash for a turbo car that isnt really ment to be turboed? I met a young fella the other day who fucked up his MBC (ghetto riged Home Depo MBC) and was boosting 15-17 psi (no boost gauge) and he didnt know till he had his buddy at a local tunning shop look at it...well its back to stock now but hes been driving around on 15-17 psi for quite some time. im sure he would have kept it at 15-17 psi if he didnt just buy the thing. Will keep you updated on his status cuz this dooode is crazy. Poor MSP :(

[NeverSober]

I am running 9psi with the stock plugs, fpr, and the Spool CAI. I have been running this way for a while now and I have not had one problem with the engine. I am gettin colder plugs this weekend, and plan on exhaust and FMIC in the near future.

[lasermp5]

hey, I say 20psi.... let us know how it works out.

[t3ase]

DAWIV, you are *waaaaaaay* too new to be getting a know-it-all attitude and start talking shit to members on this board.

This stupid power trip thing will get you nowhere here, especially with me around. You have to respect fellow members in order to get respect. Discreet is a highly respected member in this community, not to mention a personal friend.

I'd *REALLY* suggest you start reading the 8000 or so posts in this section to learn a bit about your car before dispensing bad advice.

Thread locked while I remove this crap.

And Daviw, don't ever call me out again. You will lose.

[t3ase]

Do NOT get this thread going with that useless 'my penis is bigger' shit. Start a thread in flamewars if you want to discuss that and PM Micah while you're at it.

[InsidiousMSP]

http://www.cccoe.k12.ca.us/abomb/images/cover_smokey2.jpg

Trust me. :) Given the right circumstances, it's almost inevitable above 12psi on pump gas.

[DiscreetSpeed]

http://www.cccoe.k12.ca.us/abomb/images/cover_smokey2.jpg

Trust me. :) Given the right circumstances, it's almost inevitable above 12psi on pump gas.experience can be a beetch at times..(mswerd)

but i dont agree.

[InsidiousMSP]

experience can be a beetch at times..(mswerd)

but i dont agree.
almost inevitable... ;)

I ran 13psi for 3 months and thought the car was so much stronger than everyone made it out to be. Good things don't last forever though!

[DiscreetSpeed]

almost inevitable... ;)

I ran 13psi for 3 months and thought the car was so much stronger than everyone made it out to be. Good things don't last forever though!damn ive been runnin 12 and 15+ for almost a year and still pumping 185psi per cylinder with a lot of carbon buildup.....i must have a magical msp(band2)