Isn't anyone the least bit worried???

[Ishmael]

Quite simply, Mazda USA has not updated their website with 'final' specs, everything is still out and out speculation. Guessing. Wondering. Well, I for one am starting to WORRY.

Here's why.

Let's look at a small blunder Mazda USA created last year. Oh, the Miata has been redesigned somewhat, but lookie here, we also gave it a form of VVT, and it now makes 155 hp.

Sure, magazine's test the car. Doesn't seem much faster, as a matter of fact, this car is the same or slower. What the? SCC puts it on the Dyno, wait a second, this car is making the same hp as last year!!

We all know the end of the story and I will digress. So, after all the hoopla, the Miata gains a whole 2 hp!! Not so great.

No one other than me is starting to wonder if this thing isn't even going to make that so called 170? And everyone can tell me that it has too, or that logically it should make at least that, and blah blah blah. But I don't believe anything until a manufacturer puts it in print, puts their name underneath it and a corporate seal, and I for one am always leery of something with that tell tale little asterix after it.

Again, I don't care what the dealers say (they know squat), I don't care what the reps say, I don't care what your mom who works for Mazda says, until I see something on paper, I don't believe it.

Also, anyone wonder why we have seen nothing other than previews in magazines? No first drives. No short takes. Nothing. Just a mention of it's appearance at NYAS. Woopee. I find it most disturbing that NOTHING has been mentioned in the trade publications. I will feel even more disturbed if something substantial doesn't appear in one of this coming months magazines.

Anyway, I am finished ranting, I am new here, own a 10AE Miata, have a Mazdaspeed on order, and am starting to distrust and question. Hype dies down, and facts have to take over.

Sad thing is the hype is dying, but we still have no facts.

Thoughts??

Bryan

[APEXistud]

First off, I must thank you Ishmael (Bryan) for posting your thoughts. Second, I must say that you have a lot of good points in saying what you have said. Especially about the speculations about the performance of the MS-P. I'm sure you've had the opportunity to browse through the "Mazdaspeed's Price and Performance Specs" post. Just from reading that post, you can easily come to the conclusion that there is still a lot of information that is unknown. So, only time will tell.

[slug420]

yep. everything you said, combined with the estimate i was given of 21-25k with a 1000 premium on top of that has me eyeing WRXs and jetta GLIs.......saw a used WRX the other day, 23 grand.......hmmm......im definitely getting antsy. hype is wearing thin, delivery date is expected to be october, whether or not I will last that long is yet to be determined.

[big_ben]

I understand what you are saying, but you simply cant put a turbo on a car, even if it's a weak setup like the Mazdaspeed, and not get at least an extra 30hp. It is probably only boosting 4psi to get that. I totaly believe the they will get at least 170hp.

[StuttersC]

Mazdaspeed Protege is going to be in the $20,000 range, not 21-25 with an extra $1,000 on top of that.

As for the specs, Mazda hasn't even really choosen what dealers will sell the car yet, so why are they going to say what the car can do for sure?. They are keeping the specs closely guarded for now for competiton purpsoses.

And, if I remember correctly, the MP3 wasn't really tested until it was actually released to dealers as well.

Basically, what I'm getting at, is if you have all these concerns with Mazda, why buy the car in the first place? Or even order one?

The person I have dealt with who works for Mazda has been dead on in the info I have gotten. He has never given me exact details for obvious reasons, but everything he has hinted at has been true so far.

Believe me or not, I don't really care. If you don't trust the company, its cars, or anything else for that matter, don't buy it. And then if you do buy it, don't whine about it later.

Sorry for the rant, I'm in a bad mood tonight.

[Ishmael]

Oye oye oye, hit the brakes there kiddo.

I don't care about the price. I have no problems with no official info on the price as of yet. Fact of the matter is, if it is too much, I won't buy the car. And you have NO AFFIRMATIVE PROOF that the car is going to be in the $20,000 range.

If you've got specs to brag about, I scarcely remember a car company that does not do the bragging. We already know what the SRT-4 will do, so why is Mazda being 'secretive'?? They are being so 'secretive' that I bet you they don't even know what the car will do. Why on earth would they guard them for competition purposes? It's not like cars are released overnight and Ford could go back and give the SVT more punch? Besides, if you want to talk competition it's already been confirmed that we are going to see the Civic Type-R here next year, and while it looks like a guppy shaped minivan for Papa-Smurf, fact of the matter is it's packing a 6 speed and 200 hp and will likely materialize all of 6 months down the line. None of the competition is being secretive, so why would Mazda?

I have no 'concerns' with Mazda, matter of fact I love their cars, always have, HOWEVER, they do have a sorted history of building great cars with crappy engines. Second off, I ordered one because IF it ends up being what it should be, then it will be great, if it falters, then I will walk away and spend my money elsewhere.

Of course the people have been dead on with the info because none of the info has yet been confirmed, so realistically they have nothing to have been wrong about yet!! Remember, figures don't lie, but liars can figure.

And as for magazine tests, just to pick my brain and confirm that the MP3 had been tested long before it's actual release date, while I did not feel like searching through all my magazines, I did quickly come across a 4 page spread in last years JULY issue of SCC where they did a test, with numbers, on the MP3. It was even a Yellow one.

This is not a matter of trust or not trust, this is a matter of expressing my thoughts that as of now, Mazda has failed to deliver. Will they deliver, hell on earth I hope so. Imagine if the car does pump out 170 hp at the wheels, Mazdaspeed offers some nice 'non-warranty' voiding accesories that pump the sucker up and make it the natural enemy of WRX drivers (most of whom CLEARLY don't know how to launch the car anyway, from what I have seen). I want so badly for this car to disproove critics like myself and give the current gen Protege a brilliant send off as Mazda owners get set to become Fordified.

My intent was not to bash the car, Mazda or it's dealers. My intent was to express the thought that NOTHING is official, and I was told to expect delivery in September. But I suppose you were told October and that's the actual time? Or maybe someone told you end of August? See what I mean? Mazda can't ramp up an ad campaign, throw the cars out the door, and publish final specs all in the span of a month! I don't believe it has ever been done!

Oh well, enough of my defense. Thanks for the thoughts, I thought, least I could do is give you guys something new to talk about, gee, I am getting tired of "My mom said that Mazda said that the car will actually go to 60 in 4.2 seconds, because Mazda wanted to surprise us all, and actually 170 is the amount of horsepower that goes to each wheel when you accelerate so get ready because this car is going to be fast".

Speculation, while fun, is getting weak.

Cheers!

[enry]

I think you may be putting too much faith in Mazda here. I do not think they are being secretive; I think they are just disorganized, as most companies are and as might be expected with the release of a "new" breed of cars by Mazda. My guess is that the right side of the brain (engineering) is building the car, and the left side (marketing) sees it as pointless to market a car that will may be sold out before they have even started building them.

[StuttersC]

Originally posted by Ishmael
Oye oye oye, hit the brakes there kiddo.

I don't care about the price. I have no problems with no official info on the price as of yet. Fact of the matter is, if it is too much, I won't buy the car. And you have NO AFFIRMATIVE PROOF that the car is going to be in the $20,000 range.


Yep, you know my sources and you know that they have no idea what they are talking about.


If you've got specs to brag about, I scarcely remember a car company that does not do the bragging. We already know what the SRT-4 will do, so why is Mazda being 'secretive'?? They are being so 'secretive' that I bet you they don't even know what the car will do. Why on earth would they guard them for competition purposes? It's not like cars are released overnight and Ford could go back and give the SVT more punch? Besides, if you want to talk competition it's already been confirmed that we are going to see the Civic Type-R here next year, and while it looks like a guppy shaped minivan for Papa-Smurf, fact of the matter is it's packing a 6 speed and 200 hp and will likely materialize all of 6 months down the line. None of the competition is being secretive, so why would Mazda?


Speaking of NO AFFIRMATIVE PROOF...Quote your source on the Honda, and where has anyone said that the SRT-4 is for sure coming to market, with the specs that it was shown at a car show as...


I have no 'concerns' with Mazda, matter of fact I love their cars, always have, HOWEVER, they do have a sorted history of building great cars with crappy engines. Second off, I ordered one because IF it ends up being what it should be, then it will be great, if it falters, then I will walk away and spend my money elsewhere.


Ok, good for you.


Of course the people have been dead on with the info because none of the info has yet been confirmed, so realistically they have nothing to have been wrong about yet!! Remember, figures don't lie, but liars can figure.


Once again you know my sources from where?? I was told about a turbo version of the MP3 shortly after the release of the MP3. Hmmm, what is the Mazdaspeed Protege?? A turbo MP3??

I also knew Roger Foo was getting into a Protege 5 for this season of the World Challenge, long berfore it was officially released, guess what he is driving?? Another Honda like a number of people said when they said I was wrong??

Don't talk shit when you don't have the info...Do I have specifics on the Mazdaspeed Protege, no. I never claimed I did. I am pretty confident that it will do better than 170 hp when it comes to market though. You say you won't believe anything until it is writing, look at the Miata fiasco, it was in writing before they screwed up. Point is, don't believe everything you read. And don't believe me, I don't care.


And as for magazine tests, just to pick my brain and confirm that the MP3 had been tested long before it's actual release date, while I did not feel like searching through all my magazines, I did quickly come across a 4 page spread in last years JULY issue of SCC where they did a test, with numbers, on the MP3. It was even a Yellow one.


And when was the MP3 released for sale in dealerships?? Right around July if I remember right. But the cars were ready for sale when the test was done. The Mazdaspeed Protege isn't even ready for sale yet. Supposedly they are in country, but they aren't being released until September or so? Chances are, they have to put all the MP3 and Mazdaspeed parts in them.

Kind of like what happened to the MP3. It came over from Japan as a stock Protege in the proper color, the MP3 parts were then added.


This is not a matter of trust or not trust, this is a matter of expressing my thoughts that as of now, Mazda has failed to deliver. Will they deliver, hell on earth I hope so. Imagine if the car does pump out 170 hp at the wheels, Mazdaspeed offers some nice 'non-warranty' voiding accesories that pump the sucker up and make it the natural enemy of WRX drivers (most of whom CLEARLY don't know how to launch the car anyway, from what I have seen). I want so badly for this car to disproove critics like myself and give the current gen Protege a brilliant send off as Mazda owners get set to become Fordified.


I'm only posting my thoughts as well. They haven't failed to deliver anything yet...The car isn't released. If the car comes to market doing less than advertised, then have concerns.

Why do you seem so mad about a car that isn't even out yet?

And the next gen Protege (Mazda 3, or whatever they call it) is still going to be more Mazda than Ford.


My intent was not to bash the car, Mazda or it's dealers. My intent was to express the thought that NOTHING is official, and I was told to expect delivery in September. But I suppose you were told October and that's the actual time? Or maybe someone told you end of August? See what I mean? Mazda can't ramp up an ad campaign, throw the cars out the door, and publish final specs all in the span of a month! I don't believe it has ever been done!


When did I ever say October, or August?? All I have heard has been September, and that's what I have said since I heard that. And as stated before, I think my source has more credibilty than anything you have posted.


Oh well, enough of my defense. Thanks for the thoughts, I thought, least I could do is give you guys something new to talk about, gee, I am getting tired of "My mom said that Mazda said that the car will actually go to 60 in 4.2 seconds, because Mazda wanted to surprise us all, and actually 170 is the amount of horsepower that goes to each wheel when you accelerate so get ready because this car is going to be fast".

Speculation, while fun, is getting weak.

Cheers!

I never said that my mom works for Mazda did I?? No. You seem to be throwing things at me that I never said. Yes, you did give us something else to talk about. But quite frankly, it seems like you are complaining about a non-issue.

Like I say, believe me or not I don't really care. Don't attack people you don't know for credibilty. I believe what I have heard, and confirmed on my own.

Have you?? I'm not "speculating" on the info I have.

When will the true info be released about the Mazdaspeed? I don't know.

(This is my opinion and speculation)

It should be released shortly after Mazda selects the dealerships to sell Mazdaspeed. (True info->)Which, last I heard they haven't even done. (Specualtion->) So how you are putting money down on one is beyond me. The dealership you gave money to might not even be selected.

(PR knowledge)Mazda has release dates for info, no one is supposed to release said info before that time. So, Mazda hasn't sent any info to any magazines because some magazines will print something as soon has they get, rather than when the company wants it to be printed. Newspapers are notorius for this.

[colin949]

ahha he was probley talking about me, cause my mom works for mazda.

[StuttersC]

Originally posted by colin949
ahha he was probley talking about me, cause my mom works for mazda.

Yeah, I kind of figured, but the whole of the post seemed directed at me.

No worries...I think I am taking this a little to seriously for some reason.

Time to find my happy place and forget about it...

[colin949]

hey like apexistud said there no use for everyone to get mad at eachother or anythihng, it will be out within a month or 2 so then it will show the cars true specs. In the mean time no one is going to believe anyone on just words, we might as well just wait for it to come out. We can say whatever we want but when it comes out they will show what it is, untill then theres really no use guessing.

[Allen]

Like Enry said earlier, Mazda is probably a little disorganized with the Mazdaspeed Protege info. I don't think they really care how well the Mazdaspeed sells since it is in limited production ... they may have assumed it would sell fairly well towards the aftermarket tuning folks... there's got to be more than 2000 tuners out there who needs a turbo compact car, right??

I'm sure Mazda is more worried about getting the information out there for the Mazda 6 and RX-8 right now....

[Newf]

I did quickly come across a 4 page spread in last years JULY issue of SCC where they did a test, with numbers, on the MP3. It was even a Yellow one.

Well, all I can say here is that the sticker on my car says it was built April 2001. So, tha'ts at least 3 months before this magazine tested it. But, like the guys said...the mazdaspeed for all we know so far isn't even built yet. I'm sure there are a few of them for marketing and press purposes, but I'd really like to see this magazine that people are saying had a full review of the mazdaspeed 3 in it....because I don't believe them.

As for all of the nonsense being thrown around here about price, specs, performance etc.....it's all normal, but yes it's only speculation and it means nothing. Just gives us something to do when were bored I guess. Kinda like old ladies gossiping on the phone :) Yes, I kind of wish it would stop, personally I a majority of the mazdaspeed protege forum belongs in the rumours or bull$%^$ section.

It's going to be interesting to see this car in Oct or Sept. Killer is, even if I wanted to trade mine in for it, it starts snowing here in Oct, usually around halloween. Not a good time to get a new car is it. Besides, it's orange....buying an orange car is bad enough, but buying it next to halloween is just plain funny.

[big_ben]

I like you stuttersc,....do you know why? Because you aren't afraid to argue with someone. Yo have been busting my balls for the past couple of days and I respect that. As long as you aren't being an asshole. Which you are not. You ask valid questions when you think something is not right. I've even rethought about what I've posted when you have questioned me before. But I quickly rtealized that I was always right.:p lol! I'll be reading your posts more carefully from now on.

[StuttersC]

Originally posted by big_ben
I like you stuttersc,....do you know why? Because you aren't afraid to argue with someone. Yo have been busting my balls for the past couple of days and I respect that. As long as you aren't being an asshole. Which you are not. You ask valid questions when you think something is not right. I've even rethought about what I've posted when you have questioned me before. But I quickly rtealized that I was always right.:p lol! I'll be reading your posts more carefully from now on.

No worries...I'm not trying to be an asshole...

If I think I'm right, I will fight tooth and nail until someone proves me wrong. Then, I will still be right.:p

And I will continue to ask questions.

[Antoine]

If you want assholes...go to the "other" site...they have a plethora of them. ;)

[Ishmael]

*sigh*

I certainly wasn't interested in starting a 'fight', I was far more interested in starting an intelligent discussion, but clearly that isn't what has come about. So, here we go then.....

I never said I know your 'sources', I did not know you were an informed journalist, here I thought you were just riding the rumour mill. I apologize, please let me know when you start writting the 'info and rumours' section in my Car and Driver so I can say I knew you before hand.

The Honda, I thought was generally knowledge, confirmed by Honda of America to be released around the same time as the RSX (sic Integra) Type R, thus neither infringes on the market space of the other. Can't remember of the exact issue, but both Car and Driver and Motor Trend and Road and Track have confirmed this. As for the Neon, any less horsepower or performance from that car and it's 2.5 litre mill would be pathetic, besides, the exact engine is all but at dealers in the PT Cruiser Turbo. Then again, to give some points back to you, any less horsepower than 170 from a turbocharged mill would be absolutely pathetic, so almost no way Mazda should screw this up.

I don't care about Roger Foo, that was a useless point and a pointless re direction. Basically, if you prefer, a 'scattered argument' where you lose direction and focus on re-establishing your credibility.

Don't talk shit when you don't have the info....

Couldn't have said it better myself, and you go back to my posts and show me where I was 'talking shit', all I was doing was doubting what has been said, and not in anyway providing any of my own 'information' from any of my own 'sources'. Gee, lighten up. If you don't care whether I believe you or not, you would not be quite so sensitive. Sheez.

Ok, maybe you have me on this point. Maybe the MP3's were at dealers when that test was done in the states, but they weren't here. I don't remember seeing those cars, and I did test drive one just for fun, until the end of September here. Might have something to do with our frozen north, but then, I always thought cars were now released within a week of each other everywhere, the difference only reflected in the distance the things had to be shipped. My bad, then again, did anyone buy one in July?

You are correct about the way they are building the car, from what 'rumour' says, I do beleive they are sticking the parts on at port. And yes, it is entirely likely they are already at port, it is also entirely likely that as of now most magazines have already driven the car (remember journalistic lead time....) and know the performance specs as colin949 has so often said. Chances are he is right on that point. As are you on this one. Hell, the cars better be here, or we won't see them until December at best. And I agree with the pumpkin comment by the way.

I'm only posting my thoughts as well.....

No you aren't, if that was the case, you would not be getting quite so upset when I try to counterpoint you, at which point you claim to have 'sources' which means, by interrelation, that you are claiming to post 'facts'. Far from thoughts, facts. You back this up with the end statement, claiming to have verified your information with sources.

Cheers for you if you are the 'enlightened one'. And my post was not aimed directly at you, this one though, because you let lose of all rational thought and just went into a flame, is.

I don't claim to have sources, I don't claim to have info, I am just a tad wee bit upset that nothing official has been posted yet, and remember, Mazda did say*Check our website after 07/01/02 for final specs. Well, it is more than long past, and nothing final as of yet, THIS is what I was posting about. Just thoughts, and I felt this board needed a new thread.

Gee, was never my intention of starting an argument.

And yes, I am now attacking your credibility, because mentioning mysterious 'sources' does dent it considerably. Remember, and I quote, "A man is only truly knowlegeable when he admits he know nothing." -- Socrates

The ball is yours, fire away.

Cheers!

Bryan

[slug420]

we do need a new thread, preferably with one of the following subjects:
-How I broke into MAZDA North America and stole and dynoed a MS-P
-I work for mazda and single handedly created the MS-P so I know all the specs
-I am Mr. Mazda and will be releasing the MS-P tomorrow
-I am the guy who was driving the demo MS-P in detroit and I dynoed it
-I work for SCC and i just tested the MS-P

.....you get the idea.....

[Sir Nuke]

Originally posted by Antoine
If you want assholes...go to the "other" site...they have a plethora of them. ;)

HEY.....WE have just as many assholes here as they do there....no wait a minute...no we don't....they do have more.

WE have at this moment exactly 1695 assholes.....THEY have 2275 assholes.....

:{D at least the last time I read something about human anatomy....EVERYONE has one....or at least they are supposed to! lol

[redwagon02]

Ishmael,

Just a thought, Have you tried communicating w/ Mazda NA about said automobile?

[StuttersC]

I wasn't starting a fight neither, but if you interpret it that way, go right on ahead.

When I work for or write anything for an automotive magazine, I will let you know.

And for the Honda thing, I could quite easily quote my source as Mazda of North America. Which, it is. Do I need to say exactly who told me this? I guess not if Honda Co. is enough for you on RSX Type R and Civic.

So, how does this reflect that on my credibility?

The Foo portion of the arguement was not to redirect, simply point out another piece of info that I was given, that was true or turned out to be true. If it redirected you, then oh well. I don't see how it could have sent you anywhere else. "Scattered" or not, it is relevant.

I don't claim to have sources, I don't claim to have info, I am just a tad wee bit upset that nothing official has been posted yet, and remember, Mazda did say*Check our website after 07/01/02 for final specs. Well, it is more than long past, and nothing final as of yet, THIS is what I was posting about. Just thoughts, and I felt this board needed a new thread.

And after some more thought I realized why I got so angry in the first place.

Personal life things tipped me into being a little angry from the start. Then I see that you are "upset" about this situation and aren't doing anything to remedy it other than second guess all the info that has been posted.

When I am angry from the get go and I see someone whine (not necessarily you, but anyone) about a situation and do nothing to fix said situation, it pisses me off. I am of the mind set, "Don't bitch if you intend to do nothing to fix the situation. And if you are going to fix the situation, you have nothing to bitch about."

All the energy you put into discounting everything I've said would be much better spent attempting to find the truth out for yourself.

Which redwagon02 just hinted at.

Sorry if the post seemed flamish...

[slug420]

In all seriousness, Mazda completely through out the existing engine for a Matter/Antimatter Reactor Chamber. It looks to make about Warp Five at the wheels and gets about 27 AU to the gallon on unleaded Dilithium Crystals.

Engage!

[Ishmael]

Ah, but you see, you miss the mandate of a sociologist.

Freely and openly point a finger at anything they feel is wrong in society, but when asked to present a solution, shrug your shoulders and run away. :)

I don't quite think I am whining, just more along the line of bemoaning, I think. Without resorting to dictionary definitions.

Anyway, on a lighter note, I did get that lovely one page useless pamphlet from my dealer the other day, who still knows nothing.

Oh well, looks like it won't be here until October. Anybody ready for driving the 'Great Pumpkin'??

Cheers!

Bryan

[StuttersC]

<---- Not a sociologist anyway...

I got my first issue of that damned Zoom-Zoom Magazine though, it had a crappy article about the Mazdaspeed Protege in it.

The stereo I think is for sure confirmed...And colors.

I heard orange was very becoming this year anyway.:p

[Newf]

Dealers still don't know anything.

Went up the other day, had the salesperson talking about the MS. He was like, there's not much difference between the mp3 and MS though right....just the turbo that's all

I was like, well, there's abs.......he's like no there's not.....and I said there's also 11" rotors, lsd, bigger tires and brakes, stereo's different, clutch and so on......and he was like....where are you hearing this from?

So I picked up the brouchure not 10 inches off the table he was literally sitting at ( just outside his office ) and pointed it out to him.

He was like...."oh, so it is, looks like your right.

:)

Really nice guy, but come on....read the damn thing at least.

In all honesty, I think this whole lack of knowledge thing from the dealers is really Mazda's fault for not informing them properly, and early enough. You would think it would be in their best interest to have their own sales people ready to brag about the MS and try to get it sold out asap.

Sounds too easy I guess.

[Antoine]

Most dealers and salesman are not in any shape or form....car people...most are not even educated about the cars they sell...they could be selling toasters as long as they "move units"...all they know how to do is the "act of selling" something.

Very sad but very true...

[slug420]

this is so true and indeed so discouraging.

whether you go into the subaru dealership and ask about the sti, the mitsu to ask about the evo, the mazda to ask about the ms-p, its all the same. The dealers only know whats online, IF THAT. Its awful. If any dealers, or ideally, mazdausa monitor this board, i would ask that they read these posts and take note. I find it SO discouraging to go into a dealership and find one of a few things.
1) the dealer doesnt know much
2) the dealer only knows whats online like I already do
3) the dealer doesnt know much but pretends he does to try to look smart and sell cars

i HATE going to a dealership and having the dealer try to schmooze me about cars when i KNOW he is lying. I lose all respect for them right there. If my dealer had said to me when i first went in, that he knew the car was not going to have a LSD, would have a turbo and a 6 speed tranny, i wouldnt bother correcting him, i would walk out, and i wouldnt be waiting delivery on my MS-P right now. My dealer instead said he knew nothing, but would keep me posted when he learned more. This is better but still not the best. The best would have been if he said "ah, the MS-P, lemme look here, ok mazda has sent us word that we can expect delivery in the first couple weeks of october, no sooner no later. The car will cost X dollars, and there an Y a Z and an R will be available form MAZDASPEED afterwards for you to add to your car." SOMETHING along those lines. The amount of respect I would give to a car dealer in this day and age that can know more about a car than I could after researching it online for a night, is enormous. I would refer all my friend to him to buy a car. But it just doesnt happen.

END RANT ------ for now....:'(

[StuttersC]

I have seen the sad lack of knowledge from car sales people too. It makes me wonder if I would do car sales well.

I have often wondered if people would really by cars from someone who knew what they were talking about, or if they would be discouraged. I have often thought about walking into a MAzda dealer and asking flat out if they would hire me for a sales position based on my knowledge of the product, and not so much in the sales portion of it.

Hmmm...Maybe I will anyway.

But then, you have to look at the flip side of that coin. Most people now-a-days look up as much information as they can online and in magazines before they purchase. So, most buyers have a relatively good idea about the cars they want before they show up in a showroom.

So then you have to wonder, has the customer focus of relying on a car sales guys for info switching to self-informing caused the general lack of knowledge among car sales people? Or has the lack of knowledge sent buyers on their own search for the info?

Something to ponder next time you cruise past a dealer.

[Snodawg]

170 hp @ 6000 rpm
160 lb-ft @ 3500 rpm

Site will be updated and pricing announced in a couple of weeks.

[NC_MSP]

One thing I would like to say about car salesmen.....I've been one for 2 years....and i agree...most...like 80% don't know diddly bout the cars they sell......I'm 23....and when i first got into it I worked for a dodge dealership....when the Stratus RT's first came out.....and I knew more about the cars before they arrived than our sales managers......same thing when i switched over to a ford dealership this year......The mustang mach 1's.....wont be out til prolly oct or nov.....there is currently no pricing available...and thats somethin that ford is doin.....they will take deposits on the cars....and put it against MSRP....so the dealers wont be allowed to mark them up....they can try...but they'll just lose the sale....they shouldnt sell for more than 30K.....if that.....but I can say that as a salesperson....I am trained on a sales process...and we do things in a certain pattern to obtain info from a potential buyer.....and its not like we arent allowed to ask questions...but we're trained to keep control of the convo at all times...so the fewer questions we have to answer the more control we have....but I don't like to sell like that which gets me into alot of trouble and causes me to lose my job...because all the owners and managers care about is moving cars.....they want u to build repore and establish a relationship with a customer in a matter of minutes....instead of spending time with them and earning real trust....what happens is when a salesman doesnt sell a car exactly the way they were trained.....they get fired....but getting back to the subject......when it comes to limited production vehicles.....the manufacturer doesnt like to give out any information to the dealers until the products are actually completed and ready to be shipped out......so most likely....they are not close to finishing our cars yet....they build a few begginer cars....for magazines and stuff like that so they can test em out....but most of the time....the finished product is a little different....in some way...it will be different....what we really need here is someone working in the factory where they are assembling these things to give us a heads up on how far along they are and as far as official numbers....that wont happen til they get to the dealership....the best thing i can tell you is that if you're interested in one of these cars.....go to a dealership and plop down 500 to 1000 bucks...which is what they are requiring as a deposit in the US....which is also fully refundable...and get them to make the commitment at that time to sell u the car for MSRP.....so when the car comes....they cant surprise u....even at MSRP...the dealer is making bank....don't let anyone tell u different....even at cost...they make money...cuz the manufacturers give the dealers a hold back...which is normally like 1500 for when they sell a car....at least thats how ford and dodge were....and since ford owns mazda ...i would assume its prolly the same.....if any further information is needed or anyone has any questions...i'll be more than happy to answer them...u can send a PM...or email or anything....thanks

[derrick1623]

damn...that:rolleyes: was a long ass post, full of info, but i wish it had been broken up.

[NC_MSP]

sorry...i'll remember that next time. Oh to add something else as well....Anyone wanting to know secrets on buyin cars...lemme know...i'll break down how they sell cars and how to buy em as much as i can to ya....all this for the low low price of.....free

[derrick1623]

whoa, have we somehow found a cool sales person?...all the ones i've bought cars from sucked.

also, welcome to the site.

keep us "up to date" with sales type stuff, ok?

[Antoine]

Welcome and Thank you NC_MSP!

Great info...I have a feeling you will get a lot of questions...;)

Enjoy the site (thumb)

[NC_MSP]

Hey guys...thanks alot....I love to get questions and i love answerin them.....I stayed in sales for a reason....to learn the tricks of the trade.....I wasnt the god of car sales....but I believe that you just cant sell a car by learnin a script....i mean yea..u can add yer own thing...but u still gotta stay in the dealership guidelines....which is u cant tell the truth.....i mean...cmon....how would customers feel knowin that their salesmen are hammered constantly about gettin a customers info....name, number, what they are tradin...how much they wanna put down....and oh...lets not forget the ULTIMATE SIN in car sales......lettin a customer leave without talkin to a manager.....you wouldn't believe the hell u catch for this one.....I mean cmon....are we actually sposed to detain the customer from leavin and drag them in the show room to talk to a manager....no.....if a manager wants to talk to em...they can get their happy asses outside and do some work.

There are alot of things that go on behind the scenes that people don't know about......and I think its high time the public knows about it.....so I will start here......c'mon boys....bring on the questions...I think I will start a new thread just for car sales questions.......look for it in like general talk or somethin...later guys.