Extended reach NGK coppers?

[mattybo]

Hey guys,

I'm gonna be bumping the boost up in the next couple of weeks once i can get on the wideband dyno at www.agileauto.com and make sure im not running too lean with upped boost.

Obviously im gonna need some colder plugs and i was thinking that the extended reach version of the BKR7E would suit my application best, but i was unable to find a part number anywhere...

Anyone know what it is?

[MikeyG_U2]

Here are all your options:

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=836836&postcount=71


Well... not ALL your options, but a good selection of choices...

[mattybo]

Well from what i have been hearing the extended reach is not a good idea...here is an email from a guy at NGK.



From: Brian Weaver bweaver@NGKSPARKPLUGS.COM

When Turbo charging...viabration becomes greater, longer projections have
a longer ground electrode, which could break under these conditions. I
would probably stick with the BKR7E plugs.

[Dexter]

why not just post in that thread instead of starting 2?

[MikeyG_U2]

That link I posted somehow came up as an individual message, but it's actually on the last page of the aftermarket upgrade post.

Remember our cars were built for extended reach plugs and is designed for the most efficient combustion using them. So switching to something else is stupid. I've read too many contradictory emails from NGK to believe anything anymore. Do your own research. Get a plug that is the same size as stock. You are not physically changing anything about the engine, so fitment will be fine.

[mattybo]

why not just post in that thread instead of starting 2?

i got that email from a different website.

[MikeyG_U2]

Does Brian Weaver even realize that our Protege's are unlike most of them, and are turbocharged from the factory? Did you tell him that the PZFR6F (extended reach platinum) is the plug that comes stock in the engine and that we have not made any physical changes to the engine? His email made it sound like he was referring to a car that was NA stock, and then turbocharged afterwards, which does NOT apply to us.

[mattybo]

Does Brian Weaver even realize that our Protege's are unlike most of them, and are turbocharged from the factory? Did you tell him that the PZFR6F (extended reach platinum) is the plug that comes stock in the engine and that we have not made any physical changes to the engine? His email made it sound like he was referring to a car that was NA stock, and then turbocharged afterwards, which does NOT apply to us.


actually that could possibly be the case, it was on a mazda website but it might have been in reference to a Miata that was turbocharged, im not sure tho....

[MikeyG_U2]

that's the kinda stuff we need to know before we jump to conclusions. I read one email from NGK saying that we should stick with extended reach plugs, but then suggesting we try an Iridium plug that wasn't extended reach. In the SAME MESSAGE!! It's ridiculous. Sometimes I think I'm the only person who actually researches things.

Think about it, how many people on this board knew more about the MSP than their salesperson? It wouldn't surprise me if many NGK employee's weren't familiar with our limited production car and are spitting out generic Protege info. Either way. The plugs in the post I linked to above are all the same size and dimension as the stock plugs, some are copper, some are colder heat range, some are iridium. Pick what you want.

I just picked up some Denso KJ22CR-L8 for my next day at the track. They are properly gapped from the factory, copper, and a colder heat range. Once my Magnecor wires come in I also got some NGK Iridium IZFR6F's for every day use.

One side note, you aren't supposed to re-gap Iridium plugs. The electrodes are very strong and can break if you try to bend them. I tried to gap mine, and they wouldn't move. I didn't want to hit them any harder for fear of breaking them... Supposedly they spark so much better than copper and platinum that you don't need to tighten the gap... I'll find out when I get mine on I guess.....

[jurgs01]

Does Brian Weaver even realize that our Protege's are unlike most of them, and are turbocharged from the factory? Did you tell him that the PZFR6F (extended reach platinum) is the plug that comes stock in the engine and that we have not made any physical changes to the engine? His email made it sound like he was referring to a car that was NA stock, and then turbocharged afterwards, which does NOT apply to us.
You can't put it any better than that. The only difference when you install the extended reach copper NGK PZFR7F is that they are one heat range colder. I have them, and in my car the car pulls better and has no detonation (than when I was running with the BRK7E spark plugs). The problem with them being bad for your engine came from a thread with a bunch of MP3 members and a few MSP members jumping in. There was also info in that thread that said the extended reach pulled a little more horsepower than the other coppers. One person said he blew up his turbo (on a heavily modded car that he was tuning so it must have been the spark plugs LOL), and then a bunch just jumped on the bandwagon. I recommend doing your own research, but I am sticking with my extended reach because they my car runs and feels better with them.

[mattybo]

You can't put it any better than that. The only difference when you install the extended reach copper NGK PZFR7F is that they are one heat range colder. I have them, and in my car the car pulls better and has no detonation (than when I was running with the BRK7E spark plugs). The problem with them being bad for your engine came from a thread with a bunch of MP3 members and a few SRT4 members jumping in. There was also info in that thread that said the extended reach pulled a little more horsepower than the other coppers. One person said he blew up his turbo (on a heavily modded car that he was tuning so it must have been the spark plugs LOL), and then a bunch just jumped on the bandwagon. I recommend doing your own research, but I am sticking with my extended reach because they my car runs and feels better with them.

another thing, i have seen like 100 different posts about which gap to use....what are you using .32?

[MikeyG_U2]

The manual that came with our car specified .028-.032 Inches or (.7-.8mm) I gapped my new ones right in the middle at .75mm because I am running stock boost. If you increase your boost you should use the lower number, and possibly even tighten up the gap a little bit more. (it's more difficult for the spark to fight through the extra air and fuel as the boost raises, so you need to get the ground electrode closer the firing end of the plug)

[mattybo]

The manual that came with our car specified .028-.032 Inches or (.7-.8mm) I gapped my new ones right in the middle at .75mm because I am running stock boost. If you increase your boost you should use the lower number, and possibly even tighten up the gap a little bit more. (it's more difficult for the spark to fight through the extra air and fuel as the boost raises, so you need to get the ground electrode closer the firing end of the plug)

so you would reccomend .7 if im running around 9-10psi? Thanks for the info! Much appreciated!

[Dr.Sound]

You can't put it any better than that. The only difference when you install the extended reach copper NGK PZFR7F is that they are one heat range colder. I have them, and in my car the car pulls better and has no detonation (than when I was running with the BRK7E spark plugs). The problem with them being bad for your engine came from a thread with a bunch of MP3 members and a few SRT4 members jumping in. There was also info in that thread that said the extended reach pulled a little more horsepower than the other coppers. One person said he blew up his turbo (on a heavily modded car that he was tuning so it must have been the spark plugs LOL), and then a bunch just jumped on the bandwagon. I recommend doing your own research, but I am sticking with my extended reach because they my car runs and feels better with them.did u have to re-gap yours, or di they come with a proper gap for MSP?

[MikeyG_U2]

I would start at .7, the smallest gap reccomended by Mazda. If you have any hesitation or misfires, then tighten it up a bit. I would go in .05mm increments. So start at .7, if that doesn't work well, try .65, then .6 etc.

I'm guessing that you'll be fine with .7mm as 10psi isn't really a lot of boost in the overall scheme of things.

[jurgs01]

did u have to re-gap yours, or di they come with a proper gap for MSP?

I had to re-gap them. My stock ones were at .30, so I gapped them at .30. I have heard too many different opinions on how I should gap them, so I figured sticking with the stock gap couldn't hurt. I'm only changing the heat range, so basic logic tells me that's what to do. Sometimes it's kinda hard to look through opinion on the forum and find facts, but overall it helps me a lot because I am an electrician not a mechanic.

[MazdaSpeeder00]

Ok, Im really confused as to why everyone is going to colder plugs......

Ive talked to a couple motor shops and all the guys have pretty much said the same thing. Hotter is better. They didnt see how there could be any benefit of throwing a colder plug on a turbo car. They said i would get a lot more "dogging out". They told me to buy a hotter plug because im running so rich.

So can someone explain what the theory is please.

[mattybo]

Ok, Im really confused as to why everyone is going to colder plugs......

Ive talked to a couple motor shops and all the guys have pretty much said the same thing. Hotter is better. They didnt see how there could be any benefit of throwing a colder plug on a turbo car. They said i would get a lot more "dogging out". They told me to buy a hotter plug because im running so rich.

So can someone explain what the theory is please.

Hotter plugs = more chance for detonation.
Colder plugs = less chance for detonation

With a hotter plug the temperature will be hotter and you have a better chance of multiple "ignitions" of the air/fuel ratio. However with a colder plug the chances are less...

[MazdaSpeeder00]

Hotter plugs = more chance for detonation.
Colder plugs = less chance for detonation

With a hotter plug the temperature will be hotter and you have a better chance of multiple "ignitions" of the air/fuel ratio. However with a colder plug the chances are less...
Well that makes sense, but how in the hell are people claiming hp gains off of colder plugs.......makes no sense

Well i bought bosch platinum 2's
I hope im not gonna have any issues

[CatD399]

Well that makes sense, but how in the hell are people claiming hp gains off of colder plugs.......makes no sense
that's cause they up the boost and then forget about it!!!

[Dr.Sound]

^ lol
colder plugs (better plugs period) will give smoother idle and better throttle response.
it "feels" like u have more power.
i remember when i installed colder plugs on steph's car for the first time......on the drive home she thought that that got rid of hesitation:


So last night at our weekly meet at Life Plaza. Everyone helped remove my MBC, and install my NGk Spark Plugs. Some people said It might be a good idea to remove the MBC all together, considering my car is at the dealership all day for the Re-flash. But I am planning on putting it back on , when I get my car back, which is why the plugs were installed.

Anyway On the way home last night, with Dr. Sound in my car, there was 0 hesitation. Smooth as hell, and very even power distribution. It was warm outside, and no humidity. Keep in mind I have not yet had my car flashed. Just wondering if anyone could maybe explain this.. my car is at the dealership right now, and will be until I can pick it up after work.

My concern is that the tech will drive my car, notice that is does not stumble, and then refuse to flash my car.



:rolleyes:

[MazdaSpeeder00]

So am i safe with the Bosch Platinum 2's . ..especially with my mods.. i need to know asap plz.

[MikeyG_U2]

So am i safe with the Bosch Platinum 2's . ..especially with my mods.. i need to know asap plz.

How are any of us supposed to answer this? That's like asking if you can use NGK Platinum plugs. NGK makes many platinum plugs, some fit our cars, some don't. Bosch makes many variants of the Platinum 2. Some probably fit our cars, some don't. Did you buy a specific model or part number? I bet you did, you should tell us what you bought. Then we can answer your question.

Better yet, you can do what I did, go to www.boschusa.com and use their part finder (http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/PartFinder/partfinder.asp), see what model number it spits out for our cars. I know it seems foreign to visit the website of the manufacturer for information about part compatibility... But it works.

Since I'm such a nice guy, I'll even tell you what I found. It said we should part 4301 of the Platinum2. Some of the other plugs it mentioned had too large a gap, so make sure you check yours. It says to not re-gap them, but I think you'll be alright, just go easy on the plugs.

Now, I'm sorry I was such an ass above, but asking question like that without giving any specifics is really useless to us, so please think before you post.

Oh yeah, as far as your mods, it doesn't look like you've upped your boost in any way, so any OEM equivalent plug will be fine for you. You only need to worry about a colder heat range if you increase the boost (which makes for larger explosions in the cylinder and therefore more heat)

[MazdaSpeeder00]

How are any of us supposed to answer this? That's like asking if you can use NGK Platinum plugs. NGK makes many platinum plugs, some fit our cars, some don't. Bosch makes many variants of the Platinum 2. Some probably fit our cars, some don't. Did you buy a specific model or part number? I bet you did, you should tell us what you bought. Then we can answer your question.

Better yet, you can do what I did, go to www.boschusa.com (http://www.boschusa.com/) and use their part finder (http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/PartFinder/partfinder.asp), see what model number it spits out for our cars. I know it seems foreign to visit the website of the manufacturer for information about part compatibility... But it works.

Since I'm such a nice guy, I'll even tell you what I found. It said we should part 4301 of the Platinum2. Some of the other plugs it mentioned had too large a gap, so make sure you check yours. It says to not re-gap them, but I think you'll be alright, just go easy on the plugs.

Now, I'm sorry I was such an ass above, but asking question like that without giving any specifics is really useless to us, so please think before you post.

Oh yeah, as far as your mods, it doesn't look like you've upped your boost in any way, so any OEM equivalent plug will be fine for you. You only need to worry about a colder heat range if you increase the boost (which makes for larger explosions in the cylinder and therefore more heat)
Not a prob man.

I bought the ones that are supposed to be for our car. I went to Autozone and they looked them up. I dont know if my boost raised at all but if it did it was probably 1psi. I just wanna make sure im not gonna run into any detination problems. My dad said he is gonna check the gapping on them tomorrow. I just wanna make sure its ok or if i should swing by and get something different. Also are our plugs hard to get to?

[03MSP]

Not a prob man.

I bought the ones that are supposed to be for our car. I went to Autozone and they looked them up. I dont know if my boost raised at all but if it did it was probably 1psi. I just wanna make sure im not gonna run into any detination problems. My dad said he is gonna check the gapping on them tomorrow. I just wanna make sure its ok or if i should swing by and get something different. Also are our plugs hard to get to?
No, to get to the plugs just take of the plastic cover over your engine and you will see that booties for the plugs...I'm sure you can take it from there.

This is why I love 4 cyl. engines, the spark plugs are so easy to get to!

[MazdaSpeeder00]

No, to get to the plugs just take of the plastic cover over your engine and you will see that booties for the plugs...I'm sure you can take it from there.

This is why I love 4 cyl. engines, the spark plugs are so easy to get to!
Great, thank you

hopefully i will be able to close the gap down to .7.........right?