Why are MSP's such crap in the snow?? (not tires)

[nickbachman]

After driving my MSP with the stock tires on in the snow, I quickly came to the realization that those tires are absolutely worthless in the white stuff. So I went out and bought some all seasons. I hadn't gotten a chance to test them out in the snow until today. Sad to say I only noticed about a 5-10% difference over the stock tires. I can get NO snow traction in ANY gear with my MSP. :( Why is traction in snow unattainable even with all season tires?

[jersey_emt]

Snow traction is 0 with the stock tires because they are SUMMER TIRES and are not meant for cold weather or snow.

All-seasons are always a compromise....and a lot of the 'high performance' all seasons are pretty bad in the snow (but still better than the stock tires)

My suggestion is to do what nearly everyone else does: get a set of cheap 15" wheels with SNOW tires for the winter season.

[jersey_emt]

My MSP with snow tires has no problems at all in the snow. In fact, there is a fairly steep hill near my house, that this 4WD SUV was having trouble getting up. He was not able to get even 1/3 of the way up the hill.

I got up it with no drama at all. The look on his face as I passed him in a CAR was priceless.

[DistantTea]

Tires make the car. Why do you think its such a big deal in motorsports. Anyone who needs to do serious snow driving needs to invest in some 15" steelies and snows... even cheap snows. Its amazing what tire manufactures are getting away with calling their tires all season. The Falken Ziex 512 are rated all season... HOW? its a summer tire through and through but some poor shmoe is going to buy those and take his mustang out in the snow and its off to bobsled land for him. Tire ratings are virtually worthless in the high performance all season category.

[SP33D]

yea when i got my pirelli winter ice tires put on.. it was almost like the snow wasn't even there.

[mbiker97]

It's not the car it's the tires. All seasons are crap in the snow. Get some real snow tires.

[NJMAZDASPEED]

I got P5 wheels with semprit 205/50/16 H rated snows here and there great in the snow. Even fairly good on dry roads for snow tires.

[03MSP]

I have goodyear ultra grip ice tires on 15" steelies, they work fine for me.

Steelies are only ~35 bucks a piece, get them and some SNOW tires. Swapping sets of rims is easy, takes about 15-20 minutes at the most.

[MP5driva03]

I have a set of Pirelli P7000's on my MP5, and those things are pretty damn good for some "all-season" tires. They work incredibly well in the snow - much better than I originally anticipated.

[Swerny]

Alllseason tires do nothing well, what they do the worst is provide snow traction.
Snow tires are the only way to go with the MSP if you live in the snow belt.

[nks_bb]

Just got my snow put on for today, It'll probably never snow again but it's worth it. Plus with all the little rocks still left over on the roads from the winter, 'm saving the life of my racing harts.

Tires make a big difference, I've heard of RWD Volvo's on snows towing 4x4 SUV's on A/S uphill. And as far as I know the right tires can improve your 1/4 mile time and shave a few seconds off your time around a track.

Don't blame the car man, blame the tires.

[nickbachman]

Don't drive your MSP in the snow! Why ruin a nice car. Its a well balanced machine, not meant for harsh winter duty.



alright bud. you buy me a winter car, k? (pow)

i guess i was just under the misunderstanding that the term "all season" meant all season. too late now i spose, as i dont plan on throwing even more money into new wheels AND snow tires. i'll just drive like a granny i spose.

[jersey_emt]

Just be careful for this season, then buy some winter wheels and tires next season.

Keep the all-seasons you have and swap them out for the stock front tires when you go to the track. No reason to wear out your expensive Potenzas @ the track.

[nks_bb]

[QUOTE=DAWIV]Don't drive your MSP in the snow! Why ruin a nice car. Its a well balanced machine, not meant for harsh winter duty.

QUOTE]


You know I thought about that.........and it is only a 20K car and it's still a Protege, so, for me anyways, it'll go on the snow (canada) . AND...................i don't have a choice no $$$$

[nickbachman]

thanks jersey emt. i shouldnt have much of a problem with snow this season. this was just a freak snowfall. i was just baffled as to why all season tires weren't helping, and now i know. on a funny note about how you spoke about the "expensive potenzas," when i got my tires put on at tires plus, they weren't going to give me my old tires back. they have almost no wear. after i payed, i was like "dont i get my old tires back?" and the fat guy behind the counter says, in a snide tone as if i'm way outta line, "do you want them back?" ...duh. no sir, please keep and sell my expensive potenzas with no wear for 150 a piece. please.(pow)

[NJMAZDASPEED]

[QUOTE=DAWIV]Don't drive your MSP in the snow! Why ruin a nice car. Its a well balanced machine, not meant for harsh winter duty.

QUOTE]


You know I thought about that.........and it is only a 20K car and it's still a Protege, so, for me anyways, it'll go on the snow (canada) . AND...................i don't have a choice no $$$$PREACH ON BROTHER!!

[roni]

snow tires.
i have 15" steelies and michelin alpins.

wtf. nj is pissing me off. isn't it almost spring? i took mine off last week and now today's snow is driving me nuts.

[jersey_emt]

snow tires.
i have 15" steelies and michelin alpins.

wtf. nj is pissing me off. isn't it almost spring? i took mine off last week and now today's snow is driving me nuts.
Tell me about it. I took mine off the beginning of march because it started to get warm, thinking snow was over, and then last week it decided to snow again.

And more snow today.

And some more on Friday.

So I had to put the snow tires back on...then I'm going to have to switch back to the stock ones AGAIN in a week or two.

[Damaga]

Nickbachman:
what brand of all-season did you get? usually, all-season tires are "decent" in snow the 1st year (for city driving of course).

I personnaly have Dunlop Graspics and they are amazing in the snow! and at 54$ a tire, it's a steal...

[roni]

my tires are really quite good in the snow, but on dry ground i repeatedly spin tires. my motor mounts and lsd will be in well before next winter to help compensate. personally, i hate the look of steelies, but my car is waaay too important to risk more than 15 minutes of snow driving with my parada spec-2s on.



Tell me about it. I took mine off the beginning of march because it started to get warm, thinking snow was over, and then last week it decided to snow again.

And more snow today.

And some more on Friday.

So I had to put the snow tires back on...then I'm going to have to switch back to the stock ones AGAIN in a week or two.

[StreetPreacher]

Just got my snow put on for today, It'll probably never snow again but it's worth it.
Have you looked out thew window lately?? :)

-Sp

[GA_MZDASPEED]

i used to sell tire the "M+S" (aka+=: all season) rating is a FMVSS rating.....it is given to a tire when the tread to void ratio crosses a certain point. For example a summer tire will have 60% of it contact surface as tread/rubber which is what touches the road...and 40% is the spaces in between to evacuate water etc.....an all season will have like 55/45 % with the addition of siping (those thin cuts in the tread blocks) which will increase wet traction. this siping will weaken the block which is why there are no sipes in summer tires. A real snow rated tire will have a void to tread ratio of maybe 50/50 with a LARGE number of sipes (which look like a wave style cut in the tread block.........effectively the allseason rating on your tires go you better wet traction and thats about it ....sorry dude

the tread ratio's above are as an exaple and may not be exact....but you get the idea......
for everyones future refference true snow tires that meet snow specs will have the logo of a snowflake on the sidewall for easy i.d.

[M=SP^2]

I thought I was in the clear with my stock tires and it's snowing out....it's going to be a fun drive home. (bang)

[murdock_]

my car is a jeep with 16in steelies and blizzaks

[AGR]

Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Maseratis, and Saleen S7s are crap in the snow too.

[nickbachman]

Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Maseratis, and Saleen S7s are crap in the snow too.
good call. :D

[jersey_emt]

Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Maseratis, and Saleen S7s are crap in the snow too.
haha

Had no problems at all on the commute home with the snow tires (Mich Arctic-Aplines). A lof of other people did though...it was an absolutely horrible mess

[nks_bb]

Tell me about it. I took mine off the beginning of march because it started to get warm, thinking snow was over, and then last week it decided to snow again.

And more snow today.

And some more on Friday.

So I had to put the snow tires back on...then I'm going to have to switch back to the stock ones AGAIN in a week or two.


I know, I picked up my MSP late last week, the week before the weather here ws immaculate, so I thought, I'd use the money to get some Defi's or an exhaust, then what happens, we're expected to get 10cm of snow, so I HAD to get them for like a weeks worth of driving. But I'll probably leave them on until early April. and I won't have to worry about it next October.. (dance)

[nks_bb]

Have you looked out thew window lately?? :)

-Sp


Yeah I'm not in Hamilton, where they're expecting up to 25cm, were only expected to get 10. but after plucking down the money i'd rather get the 25cm. Also, from the threads here, it seems the MSP is great in the snow WITH the proper tires, so i'd like to give that a run as well.

[Newf]

Around here we laugh at people trying to get around in our winters on all seasons. I've yet to see a good "all Season" tire that does not suck in our snow.

[PaulMP3]

hopefully all this snow melts soon. i put my winter tires away for the year.. I guess the mp3 stays park till it melts.

[nickbachman]

Around here we laugh at people trying to get around in our winters on all seasons. I've yet to see a good "all Season" tire that does not suck in our snow.
i'm only a state away from canada. we get a lotta snow too. my 3000gt has all seasons, and it's an absolute beast in the snow. it takes it with no problem. and it's only got 225's on it. thas thing has roughly 215 ft lbs of (what should be wheelspinning-) torque. i dont understand why a car with similar all seasons, much less power, and only a size skinnier tire gets such worse traction

[M=SP^2]

Yeah well my MSP met the ditch today, no damage thankfully...only the damage of paying 80$ to get it pulled out, not good times. (bang)(bang)(bang)(rant)

[jersey_emt]

i'm only a state away from canada. we get a lotta snow too. my 3000gt has all seasons, and it's an absolute beast in the snow. it takes it with no problem. and it's only got 225's on it. thas thing has roughly 215 ft lbs of (what should be wheelspinning-) torque. i dont understand why a car with similar all seasons, much less power, and only a size skinnier tire gets such worse traction
And it's weird because skinny tires are better in the snow.

Basically, the features and design characteristics of a good summer tire are the exact polar opposites of a good winter/snow tire. All-seasons try to do both but usually fail

[jersey_emt]

Yeah well my MSP met the ditch today, no damage thankfully...only the damage of paying 80$ to get it pulled out, not good times. (bang)(bang)(bang)(rant)Shit bro you got lucky..some of those ditches around your area are killer

[roni]

damn that sucks. glad nothing got hurt...

Yeah well my MSP met the ditch today, no damage thankfully...only the damage of paying 80$ to get it pulled out, not good times. (bang)(bang)(bang)(rant)

[roni]

i should've just swapped on my winter tires. it only takes about 15 minutes to swap all the tires. i should have done that before leaving my garage this morning.

hopefully all this snow melts soon. i put my winter tires away for the year.. I guess the mp3 stays park till it melts.

[CommieSpeed]

I just put my snows BACK on today after taking them off two weeks ago!!! I was so pissed, but had plans with this girl tonight and HAD to put them shits back on!!! Whatever though, as the MSP seems UNSTOPPABLE in the snow! I think that with snow tires on this is the best car I have ever driven in snow. Just like Jersey_EMT says, I blow by 4X4's with total control all the time! LSD + snow tires = cool!

[ping]

Simple - 3000gt's are HEAVY! Weight is your traction friend, but also doesn't help with cornering (snow or no...) My MSP on Semperit Sport Grip snows (205/55/16) was FANTASTIC. I could use SUV's as slalom cones, it was night and day different. LOVED it when I followed a guy in an AMG-modified Mercedes who could ba-arely keep any traction at all (spinning all over) and, given ample clearance for both safety and so I didn't look like a total moron, simply drove away. Laughing. This is such a great car!

[nickbachman]

only like 300 lbs heavier! :D vr-4's are heavy 4000 lb hogs. non turbo's, especially nearly-no-options base models like mine:D

[nks_bb]

wooooooooooooohhhhhhhoooo, just did some snow driving last nite, and this car is absulotely amazing in the snow or on dry pavement with the RIGHT tires. With the blizzaks on I was stopping on the dime and just controlling the car beautifully. I even managed to mutter that I feel 100% more confident on the MSP w/ blizzaks than I do in the Grand Cherokee using 4wd and A/S... This car rocks......in all driving conditions

[_Slotegé_]

what is snow?..............(evil)

[t3ase]

Thread moved to MSP Rims, Tires, & Suspension.

[goonsquad]

why, when I go to tirerack.com do they not show any 15" winter wheel packages for the MSP. i want to get the smallest (ie cheapest) wheel/tire set I can find which is adequate. i am thinking i should be able to find 15"s cheaper. where can I find these for cheap?

[StreetPreacher]

why, when I go to tirerack.com do they not show any 15" winter wheel packages for the MSP. i want to get the smallest (ie cheapest) wheel/tire set I can find which is adequate. i am thinking i should be able to find 15"s cheaper. where can I find these for cheap?I managed to find some listed there...

http://www.tirerack.com/snow/SnowWheelSearchResults.jsp?sortSize=15&snowSortCode=19434&show=threeWheels&autoYear=2003&autoMake=Mazda&autoModel=MazdaSpeed%20Protege&autoModClar=
edit: hold on, there's only tires listed there sorry. That's weird, no packages listed...

[Crock]

I managed to find some listed there...

http://www.tirerack.com/snow/SnowWheelSearchResults.jsp?sortSize=15&snowSortCode=19434&show=threeWheels&autoYear=2003&autoMake=Mazda&autoModel=MazdaSpeed%20Protege&autoModClar=
edit: hold on, there's only tires listed there sorry. That's weird, no packages listed...
It might not be a bad idea to pick up the phone and call the good people at TireRack. When I bought my winter tires from them, nothing was listed for the MSP on their website so I called up and the guy had several for me to choose from. It might be the same way with wheels.

[ebsalem]

I used Dunlop Graspics, from TireRack, on the stock wheels last year without a problem in snow (not counting the time I high-centered (shrug) in fresh snow), it got around better than my neighbor's Forester. They were $92? each.

[casper]

Which Blizzaks? There's

Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 (Performance Winter) - $125/piece
Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 (Performance Winter) - $129/piece
Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 (Performance Winter) - $105/piece

[ebsalem]

try this:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?startIndex=0&vehicleSearch=true&width=215/&ratio=45&diameter=17&sortcode=49500&performance=W

[goonsquad]

I am just about ready to buy a set of steelies and winter wheels but I'm just wondering if anyone has any pics of theirs, possibly with hubcaps? I want to know how stupid my ride is gonna look.

[Rawyzf]

If you don't want to look stupid get a set of P5 wheels and then get some Blizzacks for those :).


-Ryan
I am just about ready to buy a set of steelies and winter wheels but I'm just wondering if anyone has any pics of theirs, possibly with hubcaps? I want to know how stupid my ride is gonna look.

[Swerny]

I am just about ready to buy a set of steelies and winter wheels but I'm just wondering if anyone has any pics of theirs, possibly with hubcaps? I want to know how stupid my ride is gonna look.
Hey, i have 15 inch steelies and my girl bought me the Protege hub caps for Christmas last year.
It doesn't look great, but not horrible either.
I'll try to post pics tonight.

[goku4658]

where is the easiest place to get steelies...can't find dem things anywhere

[Gbourdon]

Autozone