shorty header pics

[Traveler]

I finally got some pics and set up a Yahoo site to view them at. This is my shorty header (equal length).

www.geocities.com/traveler12820/robsprotege.html

Follow the link on the site for 'more pics' to see the engine stuff. Tell me what you think guys.

This header made 7.8 lb/ft of torque more than the previous best dyno run. Also, it made more HP from 3500 RPM all the way up and kept the power climbing past 5700 where the stocker fell off drastically. It made 95.3 lb/ft at 6250 where the last time I dynoed it I was only making 88. Peak HP was 113.4 and peak torque was 119.1. Keep in mind that I have an ES model that makes a little less than the MP3 stock. I've gained (overall including all mods so far) about 15.5 HP, and 12 lb/ft of torque but over a much wider RPM range. It actually pulls through redline now where before it felt like it was falling on its face at 5700 RPM.

[MP3-Owner]

Sweet!
Did you do the work? Looks like someone put in some time.
I'm sure someone will want one, are you planning on making anymore?

[StuttersC]

It looks cool...Kind of wierd, but it works.

[Antoine]

Impressive...thanks for including the detailed hp and tq gains...have you tested these mods on the track or top speed?

How did you go about designing this header?

Is the "shorty" header design due to space issues in the engine compartment? What is the optimal header design for the mp3/p5 engine? How does equal length vary from unequal length in terms of power/exhaust flow? How much more power can you extract from your current setup with the addition of an engine management system?

Thanks

I’m sure I covered other people questions…lol

Good stuff :D

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Antoine
Impressive...thanks for including the detailed hp and tq gains...have you tested these mods on the track or top speed?

How did you go about designing this header?


Is the "shorty" header design due to space issues in the engine compartment? What is the optimal header design for the mp3/p5 engine? How does equal length vary from unequal length in terms of power/exhaust flow? How much more power can you extract from your current setup with the addition of an engine management system?

Thanks

I’m sure I covered other people questions…lol

Good stuff :D

I made a jig from a stock manifold. I had the flanges made at a machine shop, and then set a collector into the cat side flange. I wanted to maintain smooth curves using the shortest radius mandrel bends while maintaining equal length if possible. Also, I was trying to maintain the stock cat in the factory location. The problem that we have versus the Ford Focus is that our cat is off center. The cat centerline is between the #3 and #4 exhaust ports biased mostly towards the #3 port. This makes it VERY hard to just run the runners outwards and loop them up and over ala Ford Focus header. That would have been the easy solution. If you are wondering what I'm talking about, just look in the last couple months issues of Sport Compact Car and look for the Edelbrock ad. They have a Focus header as well as JBA. The runners just come out of the ports and loop up and over into the collector. This would have been much easier, but unfortunately impossible if you want to maintain the stock geometry.

As far as equal length, it allows the exhaust pulses to be moving at the same velocity when they hit the collector. This is supposed to help cylinder to cylinder scavenging.

I'm not sure how much power I can extract with engine management. I guess I'll know when I get one and get it tuned properly. I'm assured by a local shop (they sell and tune Simple Digital Systems stand alones) that I should be realistically expecting 15% or so. The stock fuel and ignition curves suck. If that is the case, I could be looking at around 17-20WHP which would take me over my goal of 130 at the wheels normally aspirated. After that bridge is crossed then I'm going to make a manifold for my Eaton M62 and start tuning that setup.

My goals are basically; 130 WHP normally aspirated, 180-190 HP supercharged with 180lb/ft of torque or better from 2200 RPM. It will probably take me a little bit of time, but I hope to be there before Christmas. I'm going to try to get the engine management before the end of the summer and then tune it first.

[freekwonder]

looks good man. i just have a few questions for you:

1. How much would you sell these for

2. how hard is it to bolt on with the pipes coming up and then down are they blocking the bolts bad our is there enough room to get tools in there.

3. could you offer good powder coating also.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by freekwonder
looks good man. i just have a few questions for you:

1. How much would you sell these for

2. how hard is it to bolt on with the pipes coming up and then down are they blocking the bolts bad our is there enough room to get tools in there.

3. could you offer good powder coating also.

Right now I'd have to custom make these to order so the price will reflect that. I have yet to find someone that will sell me the 180 degree mandrel bends for a really good price. I'm into the one I made for myself about $380 but the next flanges will be a lot less expensive to make so sayeth the machine shop. Now that they have a pattern they'll cut the price of those a bit.

I was going to sell them for $350 uncoated and I'm trying to find a place that will ceramic coat them for a decent price. If that happens I'm thinking around $475 ceramic coated. If you just want them wrapped like mine is, I'll probably be able to do that for around $400. Keep in mind that I don't have the buying power of a large manufacturer but if I can start buying larger numbers of parts the price will start to come down some. Powder coat will not work on an exhaust header.

As for bolt access, there is one that is tough to get to but manageable. That will change on the next one I make. I'm going to change the angle of the #2 and #3 tubes off the flange and then you'll be able to use a socket on all the bolts except one. That one you'd have to use a wrench on, but it will be easily accessible from the top. The catalytic converter studs can all be gotten to with a ratchet except the one directly under the #2 and #3 runners. It's still pretty easy to get at with a wrench though.

I made some mods to this header after I built it to give better access to bolts but the next one will definately be easier yet. As it is, I can have this one on in 30 minutes. The ones I'll be selling should go on in less. That's not including the time it take to remove the stock manifold. The thing to watch for when removing the stocker is the cat fasteners. They are on there very snug and you might end up breaking off one of the studs. This happened to me and I only have 8500 miles on the car. I'd seriously recommend using some WD-40 on them the night before you work on it.

[freekwonder]

cool, thanx man. 350 - 400 isnt a bad price to pay in my mind. I know it can be tough being a small company type thing. let us know in the future if this will happen.

[Kooldino]

These won't fit on once we get a turbo, will they?

[Equinox]

NO turbos connect in the middle of what used to be headers, so it goes, turbo manifold, turbo, downpipe, cat..... NA cars go headers, cat. The turbo equivalent of headers are the turbo manifold, but they are NOT the same thing and are not interchangable.

[Traveler]

I just got my new flanges yesterday as well as my mandrel bends. I'll be building another header this weekend and it will go off to be ceramic coated next week. I should have it back and pics up in about 10 days or so.

Also, I was able to negotiate a better price on the flanges and mandrel bends. So the new pricing will be $469 for a satin finish ceramic coat and $499 for the polished finish. The price will come down a bit more after I sell 10 of them or so as the ceramic coating place will start to give me a small break for volume.

The flanges are going to be 3/8" instead of 1/4" and are laser cut. I got the latest set yesterday and they look nice! It adds a little weight to the header, but there is no way these will warp on anyone.

[slowyellowp5]

I just wanted to post up that I really admire your work and dedication to other Protege owners. I know you can't be making much with that price, and with all the effort you put on...I'd definately get one ASAP if I didn't have plans to go Turbo. Definately. Not bad gains either, if you ask me...professional Civic and Integra headers can barely claim that.

[freekwonder]

let us know when its avalibiable. cause since this header doesnt remove and emissions it WONT void the warranty and for the price/gain per keeping warranty I LIKE THAT. let us know YOU DA MAN.

[Concept P5]

how much will it be again? what coating?

[311Mazda]

Very nice. I think it looks good personally. And on another note, if you open your hood and show your girlfriend your header with all that wrap on it, she'll say it's ulgy....but if you show your buds at the local autocross they will automatically recognize the usefulness and practicality of the wrap and probably comment on how smart it is. :cool:

[Traveler]

The wrap was done out of expediency and a need to keep underhood temps down. I wanted the car on the dyno shortly after I did it, and it keeps the heat down. The next one and probably those after it will be ceramic coated! I should be getting a welder tomorrow. I'll be able to get back to work and finish this next header over the weekend. Delays, delays....

[Traveler]

Quick update. Header is 90% done and will be finished later today. I'll get it off to the ceramic coaters tomorrow and get some pics up as soon as I get it back. Thanks for the interest!

[311Mazda]

Cool, keep us posted! :D

[Traveler]

Well, I got delayed again. The header is done, but the ceramic coater is down this week for inventory/shop cleanup/retooling. I'll have to wait until Monday to send it off. I'll probably go with the Cermachrome finish on this one but there are several finishes available.

Prices are:

Satin Finish-$469

Satin Black
Satin Cast Iron (gray)
Satin Titanium (bronze)
Satin Fresh Blast (silver)
Gray Ice (anthracite gray metallic/glossy)
Bright Blue Matte (light/med blue)

Cermachrome finish-$499

Looks like polished aluminum

The Cermachrome is good for 1300 Degrees F, and the satin finishes are all good for slightly over 2000 Degrees F according to the coater.

I'd really like to get someone to dyno one of these on an MP3. I know what it did for my car but would like to see someone elses results. Also, I'd be willing to discount it a bit for the first one if you promise to dyno it. PM me if interested.

I upgraded the parts slightly on this one. First, the bolt access is improved and you can get a socket on almost all the bolts. you only have to use a wrench on a couple. Next, the flanges are thicker. They are now 3/8" and laser cut. The tubes are butt welded where they mate up as they are cut sections of 180 degree mandrel bent pipe that is 1 3/4" diameter. The collector is 3" diameter as it dumps directly into the cat which has a 4.25" (approx) opening. There is no reason to go small on the collector since it dumps into a large chamber basically.

I'll have pictures up of this one as soon as I get it back from the coaters. If anyone wants the first one, PM me and you can choose the color.

[StuttersC]

Sounds cool....

[freekwonder]

damn, wish i could take you up on the deal Traveler, but unless you can discount it to $50, i cant :D ill just have to buy one of you headers down the road.

[Dimitrios]

So, I emailed Traveler about this about a month ago; just figured I'd re-energize this thread :D

I'm interested to be sure. Perhaps if the cost were around the same as the others that are available, it would be great.

Just a thought!

[StuttersC]

Holy back from the dead Batman...

[Dimitrios]

What can I say? I bring the good threads back....retro baby!

[grishulia]

It looks like a bad case of hemorroids... ;)

[Dimitrios]

Who cares about looks.....power > looks :D

[freekwonder]

i love how mine looks. everybody in my car club says an octupus died under my hood. :lol:

[StuttersC]

Originally posted by freekwonder
i love how mine looks. everybody in my car club says an octupus died under my hood. :lol:

So you serve calamari to the people in your club that you cook on the motor?? Cool!

[freekwonder]

Originally posted by StuttersC
So you serve calamari to the people in your club that you cook on the motor?? Cool!

hell ya we are high society baby.:D

[StuttersC]

Sweet!!

[Dimitrios]

freekwonder: want to sell your limited edition header? :D...j/k...

I need to contact Traveler again......

[freekwonder]

actually i am going to be selling my header soon (going a different route with my car) but some one already has dibs on it first. he already asked me about it. but if he doesnt want it ill post it up.