How TO: CEL/MIL Eliminator! [Archive] - Page 2

tallrd

03-29-2005, 11:21 AM

yeah, that's actually exactly what Corksport told me to do when I asked for their opinion on the matter. It seems to be the same thing as the in-line resistor/capacitor method except it's $25 plus shipping, whereas the res/cap soldered in-line will cost you $2.00 and about 10-20 minutes. The piggy-backed 18mm non-fowlers work great if you don't feel comfortable cutting/soldering wires.

Rism

03-30-2005, 08:26 PM

I just did this fix after about 7 months of my CEL and i finally got tired of it. Hope its stays off.

JCell

04-01-2005, 12:41 AM

does the cel fix help with milage?

tallrd

04-01-2005, 02:04 PM

gas mileage should not be effected by a secondary o2 sensor. It`s just there to make sure something is wrong on the exhaust side of the car. The primary o2 sensor is the one that effects the A/F mix.
Anyone else have the silencer for a CS exhaust? How much of a difference was it?

Brad

04-06-2005, 01:56 PM

will this work for a p0171 bank one lean?

cable43

04-07-2005, 12:55 PM

installed new Corksport exhaust this weekend with non-fowler method, and works stupendously. No CEL (alright)

EVERYBODY SHOULD DO THIS METHOD.

Can someone please give me a valid reason to use capacitors/resistors vs. the non foulers??

Anyone ......

acidbbg

04-11-2005, 01:58 AM

EVERYBODY SHOULD DO THIS METHOD.

Can someone please give me a valid reason to use capacitors/resistors vs. the non foulers??

Anyone ......

It's the same reason why there is Linux, Mac and such..people like to have the ability to chose what they want!

Lord_Zath

04-11-2005, 02:03 AM

does the cel fix help with milage?

It will if it prevents you from your car throwing a CEL!

Why? Because under CEL conditions, the engine runs richer to prevent ping/detonation. So your gas mileage will be horrid... not to mention the hp.

As for the two fixes, solder vs nonfouler, I agree it is everyone's choice. I have done the nonfouler and 300 miles later so far so good! I'm a neat freak and paranoid to boot. So I don't like cutting into wires unless I have to!

LZ
Z

cable43

04-11-2005, 09:19 AM

It's the same reason why there is Linux, Mac and such..people like to have the ability to chose what they want!

I meant a technically specific reason pertaining to the performance of the two.

It just seems that it is a lot more hassle to find the perfect resistors and get it to work.
With non fouler - there's no cutting, it costs about $4, and it works!

Bigg Tim

04-11-2005, 10:11 AM

I meant a technically specific reason pertaining to the performance of the two.

It just seems that it is a lot more hassle to find the perfect resistors and get it to work.
With non fouler - there's no cutting, it costs about $4, and it works!

No one tried the non fouler when the thread was started. So acid tried this method and it works perfect with the parts I posted a picture of. If the non fouler works, then it would be worth it because you don't have to cut into wires. Can't give any technical differences, as long as they both work, who cares how it works. The non fouler does seem to be easier, if I knew about it in the beginning I would of went that route, it seems easier. But the resistor setup works fine also.

ottawaP5

04-11-2005, 04:53 PM

the engine runs richer to prevent ping/detonation. So your gas mileage will be horrid... not to mention the hp

I drove a 400 mile trip with a CEL and noticed no difference in fuel consumption or hp...

P5 Rally

04-12-2005, 02:54 PM

I know this thread keeps on going, but has anyone tried the CEL fix from Apex motorsports?

Any comments other than flames?

kiwee

04-13-2005, 07:26 AM

i had my ractive header & cat back installed. MONTHS after (prolly 6 or so), my CEL came on. my setup has a secondary mounting bung and a primary. i extended the wires to allow for the 2nd bung. would this fix take care of this???

J dragon

04-14-2005, 02:17 AM

Where do you buy nonfoulers?

cable43

04-14-2005, 07:18 AM

Where do you buy nonfoulers?

Pep Boys, Auuto Zone, Napa, etc.
they are about $4
Made buy "Help"
I'll get the part #

bazooka joe

04-14-2005, 07:45 AM

i'd did the resistor and capacitor last night...cost me $4 and took about 30 mins including jacking the car up. started the car and no cel....will give it a few miles and see how it goes.

cable43

04-14-2005, 08:51 AM

i'd did the resistor and capacitor last night...cost me $4 and took about 30 mins including jacking the car up. started the car and no cel....will give it a few miles and see how it goes.

good luck with it hope it works for you.

Lord_Zath

04-14-2005, 09:43 AM

I think it's part 42001 or something for the nonfouler. Help! brand, 18mm.

LZ
Z

cable43

04-14-2005, 09:55 AM

here's a quick how to
I stole it from Evolutionm.net

the Part number is 42002 ( Help Brand)

This is how to make a mechanical o2 fix if you have a header like OBX or AWR, that gives a cel. You can find it on ebay for about 15 dollars shipped. But why buy it when you can make it for 3 dollars using parts from your local Pep Boys or Auto Zone, etc? 
 
First of all you will need 2 spark plug anti-foulers (18mm). It is made by the HELP! brand part#42002 or 42009. 
<img src="http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/album260/DSC01106.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> 
You will also need a 1/2" drill bit and drill. Or a drill bit close to that size 
<img src="http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/album260/DSC01108.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> 
Drill one one the anti-foulers so that the o2 sensor can fit. I recommend using a vise grip and lube for the drill bit if you ever plan on using it again. 
<img src="http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/album260/DSC01110.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> 
This is how the hole should look after. If it doesn't come out nice use a dremel or a file. 
<img src="http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/album260/DSC01111.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> 
Put the one anti-fouler you drilled and connect it on top of the one you didn't. Now you don't have to buy a electrical fix and splice your wires. 
 
Here it is installed. I recommend using anti seize on all treads. 
<img src="http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/album260/DSC01114.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> 
<img src="http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/album260/DSC01115.jpg" border="0" alt="" />

J dragon

04-14-2005, 11:45 AM

cable43

04-14-2005, 12:20 PM

I'm Sorry, but I have a question..I'm not understanding something..btw Nice How to for the nonfouler enthusiasts

Why did you give up on it? what could go wrong in this installation? and from my understanding you put that in the opening on the header where the first precat is supposed to go, then the sensor?...how does this negate the Cel from showing? technically

Sorry that was a typo

the fix goes on the Second bung

Rough example:
First bung- normal o2 sensor goes there
http://dosle.technodump.com/p5/headerinstall/106_0694.JPG

Second bung is down here
http://dosle.technodump.com/p5/headerinstall/106_0687.JPG

THIS IS WHERE THE NON FOULER GOES
you put the o2 sensor on after it

I hope this clears some things up.

Again... I have 1700+ miles with no CEL!

Word!

J dragon

04-14-2005, 12:26 PM

thanks for that picture reiteration...probably (thumb)

03promaz

04-15-2005, 02:20 AM

Which Mil eliminator method is suggested. I will do either one its no big deal but just want the one that will be right the first time. (dont want to read through 19 pages to get everyones opinion) If the solder method is the way to go are the parts on page 1 still the correct parts or has it been modified.

ottawaP5

04-15-2005, 06:43 AM

The parts are correct. Just make sure the get a non polarized capacitor (it should have no plus or minus signs on it). I put a polarized one on the first time and got a CEL.

Lord_Zath

04-15-2005, 09:01 AM

I'd recommend the nonfouler trick. A little more expensive, but easier to deal with (and no splicing wires). So if there's a problem, much easier to return to stock.

So far I've gone ~500 miles w/o CEL on nonfouler fix.

LZ
Z

Bigg Tim

04-15-2005, 01:02 PM

It's whether you want to solder or not. I posted pictures of the stuf I got from radio shack and I've been running for I think a year now with no CEL's. Check page 3 or so for the pics, you can see the part numbers too.

Laser03pro

05-01-2005, 06:01 AM

Hmm I really want to get a header but I dont want to void my warrenty.

Nutari

05-01-2005, 06:32 AM

im up to about.. 6,000 miles with non-fouler trick.. no CEL

Horse

05-01-2005, 06:45 AM

im up to about.. 6,000 miles with non-fouler trick.. no CEL
im at about 8K - nothing - greatest $2 investment EVAR! (first)

Lord_Zath

05-02-2005, 09:43 PM

Hmm I really want to get a header but I dont want to void my warrenty.

Technically they have to prove that the part you put in caused the problem. So if there's any possible way for something to enter the engine through the exhaust and then the header, I suppose it'll void your warranty.

Otherwise if you're really worried, go BTS (back to stock) before taking it in. With practice, it's an easy 1-2 hours.

Rism

05-11-2005, 12:29 PM

Well after about a 1000 miles my CEL came back on. Wasnt there a revised mil elimniator that used a 980k ohm Resistor instead of 1 million? That actually worked as opposed to this one.

Lord_Zath

05-11-2005, 04:48 PM

glad I did the nonfouler trick. good luck, rism

eljefe305

05-15-2005, 09:48 PM

used the instructions on the 1st post and voila no CEL
good good stuff.
i'm glad i did this instead of putting the stock exhaust like the dealership said.
or replacing the O2 sensor like they said the 2nd time around.

P5 Rally

05-15-2005, 10:10 PM

use the mechanical fix...its sooooooooooo easy to do

Rism

05-15-2005, 11:02 PM

what size non-fouler do u get?

Nutari

05-16-2005, 05:53 AM

18mm. 1/2 drill bit on one of them..

NeverSober

05-16-2005, 11:23 AM

I did thenonfouler and it did not work...........I did drill out both of them though..........maybe I should get onenew one and just not drill it out.............what do you guys think?

Chris

Rism

05-16-2005, 11:29 AM

well which side do u drill. Also wasnt there a how to thread on this somewhere?

Bigg Tim

05-16-2005, 11:50 AM

well which side do u drill. Also wasnt there a how to thread on this somewhere?

I believe you drill out the one the O2 screws into and leave the one alone that goes into the exahust. I think If you don't drill out the top one, the O2 won't screw in all the way. The one that goes into the pipe stays the way it came so the exhaust only has a small hole to go through to get to the sensor, thus making it read a different voltage then it would if it was right in the pipe.

Nutari

05-16-2005, 01:22 PM

The whole point to the non-fouler thing is this..

The reason you get a CEL with a header is because there is no cat. restricting the flow anymore.. the O2 sensor sees all the extra emissions going past and throws a CEL..

when you install the non-fouler, wait.. im getting ahead

when you look at the non-fouler, you notice it only has a tiny hole..

you drill out ONE side only to make room for the o2 sensor to fit.. and leave one so that only a little bit of exhaust gas can get in.. the normal amount the o2 sensor would see if there were a cat.

Lord_Zath

05-16-2005, 08:19 PM

Yes it goes (o2 sensor) -> (drilled non-fouler) -> (non-fouler) -> (o2 sensor bung)

tallrd

05-17-2005, 01:15 PM

diddo on the installation. use a 1/2" drill bit when drilling out the 1st non-fowler. The non-fowlers should be 19mm. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but from memory I think that's what made mine work 1K miles+ w/o CEL (headbang)

acidbbg

05-18-2005, 02:47 PM

Nutari

05-18-2005, 03:12 PM

03promaz

05-18-2005, 06:51 PM

Well 1200 miles later and no CEL with the resistor/cap setup

bazooka joe

05-18-2005, 09:53 PM

120 miles for me!

eljefe305

05-19-2005, 05:23 PM

well let us know if it comes back..

chas

it did =(
i'm trying out the nonfouler trick but i need to buy myself a 1/2" bit first
the thickest one i have is 1/4"

Lord_Zath

05-19-2005, 07:32 PM

I had to do that, too. Wal-mart has a Black and Decker drillbit for around $5.

Fai

05-19-2005, 11:32 PM

Anyone know where I can get the nonfouler in Canada?? i dun see them in auto store like canadian tire

Lord_Zath

05-20-2005, 12:51 AM

they're pretty light so I suppose a buddy in the USA could always buy a set and ship'em to you...

P5 Rally

05-20-2005, 09:00 AM

Anyone know where I can get the nonfouler in Canada?? i dun see them in auto store like canadian tire

Dude...

Try NAPA. I got mine from there
Canadian Tire can order them for you through their 'HELP' product line, but the clerks are all idiots and wonn't know how to order them

Fai

05-22-2005, 01:04 AM

Thanks for the help guys, i just ordered mine at NAPA, should be here on tuesday.

Lord_Zath

05-22-2005, 04:40 AM

w00t!

PBW_Pro5

06-13-2005, 02:55 PM

When I first got my header installed I used the Cap and Res, it didn't work very well. After about 40 miles the CEL would come back on. After fighting with different sizes and polarized and what not. I put my wirring back to stock and tried the nonfouler, I told myself that if this doesn't work I'm putting it back to stock and selling the damn header. Well I'm not selling the header anymore. I'm not trying to take any props away from anyone who has done the electronics and had it work, but people keep putting on here that they try it and it works, then you follow down a couple of replies and they are saying the the CEL is back.
I have had the nonfoulers on for about 300 miles and so far so good.
Could it be something with the year of the car maybe in the programing?
I have a 2003.5, but I just don't want to see people going thru the troubles like I did. Make it easy on yourself and go with the nonfoulers to start, you'll be glad you did.

Bigg Tim

06-13-2005, 04:14 PM

With these headers, do you remove all cats or something? I don't doubt the fouler works and if it was known when I did the CEL fix, I probably would of use it for it's ease of use, but I have the electronic way on mine and I have been going over a year on it. Now I have a 3" exhaust with 1 high flow CAT with the 2nd O2 after the cat. I had a CEL saying something about the heater ciruit and when I did the fix, it went away. What codes are you getting with the headers? It has to be with the type of code you are getting.

Lord_Zath

06-13-2005, 04:32 PM

I think he's referring to an OBX header, which removes the 1st cat.

Bigg Tim

06-13-2005, 07:05 PM

Okay, so you would still have the 2nd O2 behind the cat right. I wonder why it works for some and not others? Do you know what the code is you get? Oh well, the anti fouler is a much easier way to do it anyway.

Lord_Zath

06-13-2005, 09:03 PM

PBW_Pro5

06-14-2005, 09:47 AM

Bigg Tim and Lord Zath you guys are both correct, I'm running the OBX header, mazdaspeed exhaust, and an ijen CIA. The nonfouler went into the end of the header(2nd sensor)
I kept getting p0421 something about the 1st cat below threshold.
Now I'm still having problems with the EGR tube leaking at the header. I even took the Throttle body off and tried to remove the other side of the tube and put back on in reverse, but i couldn't get a wrench down in there to save my life. I have a friend that owns a company in PA where he bends pipe for a living. I'm going to take a ride up there one day and see if I can get a new pipe bent an inch or so longer, or maybe get him to make me a braided line that has the fittings I need.

Bigg Tim

06-14-2005, 11:23 AM

Don't know the code, but the 2nd o2 is located at the end of the header. The exhaust system goes exhaust port -> 1st 02 -> 1st cat -> 2nd 02 -> 2nd cat -> cat-back exhaust.

And the reason it probably didn't work for you is that the 1st cat takes a lot more out of the exhaust stream than the 2nd cat or a hi-flow cat would ever take out...

So there is no cat in front of the 2nd O2? If not then that's why it doesn't work with the resistor/capacitor. We have our 2nd O2 after a cat, so the resistor setup gives it that extra clamp to trick the ECU into thinking everything is cool. You have no difference between the 1st O2 and the 2nd one without a cat, so the resistor isn't enough. The non fouler is perfect for that setup because it only lets a little of the exhaust to the O2 so that tells the ECU everything is okay. If you are running a header, then don't even waste your time with the resistor/capacitor setup, go right with the anti fouler way.

Lord_Zath

06-14-2005, 12:30 PM

P5 Rally

06-14-2005, 03:10 PM

almost 3000km w/ mech fix and no CEL and no hacked wires

Bigg Tim

06-14-2005, 11:31 PM

Agreed. I do think, htough, that the different sensors have different tasks. For example, the first o2 sensor helps the ecu tune the fuel maps and timing. The second o2 sensor helps the ecu make sure the emissions system is working properly.

The resistor works by changing the o2 sensor's voltage from variable (sensing what's going on) to fixed (always reading the same thing). It will work if it's done correctly. But the nonfouler is a much better/easier way to go.

Right, it makes it steady so the ECU doesn't see that there is a malfunction with the cat. The ECU compares the signals of the 2 sensors and expects the rear one to be at a certain range to designate that the cat is working. When you get rid of it, there are no differences so it throws the CEL. And it uses both inputs from the sensors to tune fuel and timing.

marcksavoie

06-29-2005, 11:29 AM

I have no o2 bung after my cat on my P5 midpipe and I have a MSP engine. Could I plug the o2 sensor in the engine bay, make the cel fix and tie-wrap the sensor somewhere in the engine bay? Or maybe it needs some kind of ground??

Tanks!

Lil Freek

07-02-2005, 02:00 PM

so if i didn't have the MIL it would cut fuel or run too rich?

i think this would happen if you didn't have the fix - i have a straight pipe and the 2nd O2 sensor in the catless pipe (1st in the jpipe) and this is what happened to my ground for the O2 sensor.

http://ottawaprotege.com/images/lilfreek/short_1.jpg
wire is completely shorted out. I'm assuming you get enough bogus signals and the effin' thing just shorts itself out. I'm going to rip apart the wiring harness today and find out exactly where it started, but seems like effed up signal will just short out the wires.

ghettobubba2001

08-13-2005, 11:15 AM

hey guys whats up.... just to step in and say... i bought a universal O2 sensor for my p5 and i used a nonfouler to put it into my new OBX header (because i broke the stock one. The car runs fine and everything. But i was wondering if it would be ok for me to have this setup...? Im talking about the first O2 Sensor. Now i also need to do the CEL/MIL fix with the non-fouler for the 2nd O2 sensor to rid of the CEL light correct? If you need pics i can give them to you.

Lord_Zath

08-13-2005, 07:19 PM

whoa whoa whoa

you need the nonfouler "trick" for the second o2 sensor, not the first o2 sensor. The first o2 sensor is not affected by the header at all and needs to be in the stream for proper tuning. The second o2 sensor is affected by the header since there is no cat before it anymore. The second o2 sensor is the one responsible for telling the ECU that there's a problem.

RaiderMP5

08-14-2005, 08:18 AM

And you do not do both CEL fixes to the 2nd 02. Do one or the other, but not both. Cut the wiring for the CEL fix posted here, or bolt on the spark plug non foulers to the 2nd bung and problem solved. Now go take the non-foulders off of the 1st o2 bung, as they are not needed.

Hughes412

08-14-2005, 12:23 PM

Who can I buy one from. I don't want to make one and mess it up. Is there a companly that sells them?

RaiderMP5

08-14-2005, 12:44 PM

Who can I buy one from. I don't want to make one and mess it up. Is there a companly that sells them?

http://www.msprotege.com/vbb230/showpost.php?p=1641232&postcount=274

Hughes412

08-14-2005, 12:59 PM

Thanks, I thought there was a defauler that fit the sencore and I couldn't find it. I thought about doing this.

RaiderMP5

08-14-2005, 01:29 PM

I did it, and have had zero problems in 8,000+ miles.

Lord_Zath

08-14-2005, 01:33 PM

ditto

khaosman

08-14-2005, 06:25 PM

http://www.msprotege.com/vbb230/showpost.php?p=1641232&postcount=274

Thanks for the link. I didn't know what the non-fouler looked like, now I do! It looks like simple. How does it work? Just vents stuff out? heh

Lord_Zath

08-14-2005, 08:12 PM

It pulls the 2nd o2 sensor farther from the exhaust stream. It detects the temperature, but it does not detect enough of the exhaust gas to realize that the first catalytic isn't doing its job. So it doesn't throw a CEL.

Hughes412

08-14-2005, 10:30 PM

And only costs 4 bucks and change. Thanks fellas, I got it all together and back on the road. Runs like a top. (headbang)

RaiderMP5

08-14-2005, 10:32 PM

Good to hear!

aznativesilverp

08-16-2005, 06:28 AM

I am getting the second O2 sensor bung welded this week on a ractive header. Has anybody here added the second bung on a ractive header along with adding the foulers to keep the cel away. Let me know. (eek2) (eyeballs)

RaiderMP5

08-16-2005, 06:34 AM

ZoomZoom03

08-30-2005, 04:29 PM

Hughes412

08-30-2005, 07:15 PM

ok just so i can clarify, u use either the wire/reistor/cap method or u can use the spark plug non fouler method to remove the CEL/MIL issue regarding header install?? and the OBX header has all the right bungs unlike the Ractive header which is missing the second bung??

hope this came out right..im planning on purchasing an OBX header and wanted to make sure i get all the required pieces and parts at the same time

thanx in advance

Do the non fouler, it's save you a few bucks. If you do the non fouler you'll need a 1/2in drill bit to drill all the way through so that the o2 will fit in it. I did it and it works great. There is a how to on here too.

ZoomZoom03

08-30-2005, 11:57 PM

Do the non fouler, it's save you a few bucks. If you do the non fouler you'll need a 1/2in drill bit to drill all the way through so that the o2 will fit in it. I did it and it works great. There is a how to on here too.

thanx Hughes, i saved this page for when i get ready to do the non fouler trick, appreciate the feedback

khaosman

08-31-2005, 12:20 AM

The non fouler works great. Well, I haven't driven far enough to know if I avoided a CEL yet. I picked up the parts and drilled it out, very simple.

Hughes412

08-31-2005, 09:08 AM

thanx Hughes, i saved this page for when i get ready to do the non fouler trick, appreciate the feedback

No problem. I just went threw this not 3 week ago. I have the wagner header and didn't need one until I gutted my precat. I've put on about 1k miles and it all good.

P5 Rally

08-31-2005, 10:12 AM

I've had my nonfouler in since May....probably about 6-8000 km and no CEL. The nonfouler method is so cheap and easy to do

nocoastgangster

09-04-2005, 07:57 PM

This is for an OBX 2.0 header. Like somebody stated before HELP part number is 42008/42009. 18MM. Works great. The drill bit to use is 1/2 inch. Perfect fit.

Pretzellogic

10-26-2005, 01:11 PM

Tried the resistor/capacitor trick in order to get my car to pass inspection. It worked for about a day and then I threw a P0140. I guess it's back to the drawing boards.

RaiderMP5

10-26-2005, 01:22 PM

Tried the resistor/capacitor trick in order to get my car to pass inspection. It worked for about a day and then I threw a P0140. I guess it's back to the drawing boards.

Did you try the non-fouler? I have not had a single problem siince I got both installed many months ago.

low_psi

10-26-2005, 01:26 PM

Well I'm throwing a P0037 and I'm going to try the resistor today. I cleaned the sensor up and it worked fine for 2 days but the CEL is back and annoying me to death.

Bigg Tim

10-26-2005, 04:09 PM

If you have no cats, then the resistor doesn't work, use the anti-fouler method.

o.g.sk8er

10-26-2005, 04:17 PM

Bigg Tim- I think you just answered my question without even knowing it. :) Thanks! lol

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123614622

Regarding this thread----- ^^^

Bigg Tim

10-27-2005, 12:55 PM

Bigg Tim- I think you just answered my question without even knowing it. :) Thanks! lol

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123614622

Regarding this thread----- ^^^

So I take it you do not have any cats?

o.g.sk8er

10-27-2005, 12:57 PM

nope..I will try the non-fouler trick this weekend....

TXMazdaSpeeder

10-28-2005, 02:53 AM

ya but i heard the primary (narrowband) o2 sensor will give you a lightshow because of the changing voltages so much!

the best place to wire your a/f meter into is the signal wire from the ecu

o.g.sk8er

11-01-2005, 02:15 PM

So, I did the non-fouler trick this weekend. Removed the MIL eliminator, and put in the same 18MM HELP! non-fouler that everyone talks about. So far so good! I have almost 150 mile and no cell yet.

From what I understand, if using a header and full exhaust, with no cats, you can get away with the MIL eliminator. But add an MP3 ECU, and you will throw a cell. It seems that the non-fouler is the way to go with this set up.

Thanks Bigg Tim!

low_psi

11-05-2005, 01:35 PM

If you have no cats, then the resistor doesn't work, use the anti-fouler method.
I have a highflow cat. The CEL I'm getting is a HEATER CIRCUIT VOLTAGE LOW Bank1 Sensor2. Not quite sure how to fix this(pretty sure my o2 sensor's filament is busted) but I'm gonna try this just incase it works. Cutting the voltage when the pcm says its already low is not the logical solution :)

NegatiZE

11-21-2005, 12:52 AM

I've had the non-fouler on for a week, no check engine light! I have the OBX 4-1 header, catless midpipe, and Racing Beat catback exhaust. yay.

Lord_Zath

11-21-2005, 12:52 AM

I've had it on for a little over a year now, about 8k miles since it was installed, 0 CEL. good ol non-fouler.

low_psi

11-21-2005, 01:20 AM

I have a highflow cat. The CEL I'm getting is a HEATER CIRCUIT VOLTAGE LOW Bank1 Sensor2. Not quite sure how to fix this(pretty sure my o2 sensor's filament is busted) but I'm gonna try this just incase it works. Cutting the voltage when the pcm says its already low is not the logical solution :)

UPDATE: This won't get rid of the P0037 code. Simple logic tells you limiting the voltage when low voltage is the problem won't work but I figured I'd try before I spent the $60 on a new sensor.

Nutari

12-07-2005, 04:03 PM

http://omgihost.com/upload/files/18/Non-fouler.JPG

RaiderMP5

12-07-2005, 10:09 PM

yup, eleventy bajillion miles and no CEL either.

eagleno49

12-14-2005, 02:02 AM

Does anyone know if the non-fouler will satisfy the sensor parameters or will it show up on the scantool as "catalyst not ready"?
Thanks
Brian

RaiderMP5

12-14-2005, 06:47 AM

it will satisfy.

MSPRedDragon

12-14-2005, 11:12 PM

Just read this. Great how-to, and I will be doing this shortly.

RaiderMP5

12-14-2005, 11:13 PM

do the non-fouler, no cutting of wires...works 100% of the time!

cable43

12-14-2005, 11:15 PM

do the non-fouler, no cutting of wires...works 100% of the time!

(mswerd)

please do it!... it is just plain easier

RaiderMP5

12-14-2005, 11:19 PM

oh yeah, I forgot that. 30 seconds to install.

cable43

12-14-2005, 11:24 PM

oh yeah, I forgot that. 30 seconds to install.
(rockon) preach on !!!

JCell

12-21-2005, 12:58 PM

Lord_Zath

12-21-2005, 01:02 PM

damn, i recently bew the capasitor/resitor on my cel fix, and now got a cel :(

is there one or 2 parts to this non fouler thing, someone said that it was part numbers 42008 and 42009, 18mm, but someone else said that it's one one part....

can that has done this verify it? thanks

you need two nonfoulers, but they come in a pack of two. Either part numbers will work. You also need a 1/2 drill bit. I got one at walmart for $5.

JCell

12-21-2005, 01:12 PM

awsome, thanks for info!

Lord_Zath

12-21-2005, 01:41 PM

np!

gino

12-21-2005, 01:52 PM

bazooka joe

12-21-2005, 02:29 PM

i spent the $2 bucks or so with the resitors, 15 mins later...no cel about 1000 miles

Nutari

12-21-2005, 03:55 PM

I tried foulers and home-made resistor-cap fix. Neither worked. Found this courtesy of one of the forum members.
http://www.o2sim.com/6928.html

Spend the $30; it's more than worth it. NO problems in 6K miles. None. Install is quick, results excellent. :D
then you did something wrong.. going on what.. 20k? miles.. had the header for almost a year now.. no CEL with non-foulers.

JCell

12-27-2005, 11:42 PM

i tried the resitor, worked for about 10k miles, tried the non foulers, cel went away for one day :(

WTF!!

RaiderMP5

12-28-2005, 12:04 AM

i tried the resitor, worked for about 10k miles, tried the non foulers, cel went away for one day :(

WTF!!

Did you reset the ECU? Power on the ignition, unplug - battery terminal. p[ump brakes. Key off. Let sit 10 minutes. connect - terminal. Should do the trick. I did the non foulers (both of them connected to each other) and never got a CEL again.

JCell

12-28-2005, 12:16 AM

yep, it's funny cause after i did the non fouler, the cel went off automatically, i figured because the computer thought that the problem was fixed, but then it came back so i rest the ecu, still came back, i went to autozone and they told me that the second 02 sensor was burned, yet it still reads on my air fuel gauge

JCell

12-29-2005, 07:40 PM

even more weird stuff

so the cel went away again, no cel for 3 days, the today, i'm engine bracking the car does the loudest backfire ever! the people driving next to me pulled over right after it :D

then i saw that the cel came back :(

JCell

12-29-2005, 07:45 PM

UPDATE: This won't get rid of the P0037 code. Simple logic tells you limiting the voltage when low voltage is the problem won't work but I figured I'd try before I spent the $60 on a new sensor.

60 bucks?!!? autozone wanted 285 for a new sensor! (protest)

Zhan

12-29-2005, 07:57 PM

60 bucks?!!? autozone wanted 285 for a new sensor! (protest)
I'm not entirely certain, but the ones on Ebay such as http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8019826266&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT seem to look like they work.

Breeegz

12-29-2005, 10:55 PM

^my guess is that any four wire O2 sensor will work, but the one with our exact plug is way expensive (the $285) the one without the plug and needs to be spliced is the 60 dollar one.

ottawaP5

12-29-2005, 10:59 PM

I thought I could keep the CEL/MIL eliminator on AFTER I put the stock manifold back on....I got a CEL after 200 miles....oh well, I had to straight wire it back to original.

Bigg Tim

12-29-2005, 11:23 PM

Bosch P/N 15733 is the universal O2 that will work on our cars. MPNick just used one and it worked fine, in case people need it.

Spooled

01-03-2006, 04:12 PM

For any of you that want to see what it looks like before it's wrapped up, I just soldered one together last night. I need to get some heat shrink tubing to finish it up. Just make sure that you wrap the individual lines so that there aren't any shorts.

bazooka joe

01-03-2006, 05:44 PM

Spooled

01-03-2006, 06:12 PM

nice work! it's good to see someone who know how to solder a joint!!(thumb)

Thanks! I really need a new soldering gun, though. I'd like to try that Cold Heat thingy.

Bigg Tim

01-03-2006, 09:44 PM

Thanks! I really need a new soldering gun, though. I'd like to try that Cold Heat thingy.

Sucks!!!! I'm used to putting some solder on the tip and going from there, the cold heat you have to keep the wire accross the split contact to make heat and it MUST stay there to get the solder to suck in. I have one and tried it but it took too long compared to the good old iron! Good pic, I should have took one of mine before I installed it.

This same setup has been on my car for about 2 years now with no issues. I do have 1 high flow cat so I'm thinking that's why it worked for me so long versus the guys with the headers. My cat cleans some out, but being 3" and high flow, it doesn't do what the ECU wants when it's cold out, so this fix does the trick. I might add, I only got the P0421 code when it was cold out. When it was warm, zero codes.

Spooled

01-03-2006, 10:05 PM

Sucks!!!! I'm used to putting some solder on the tip and going from there, the cold heat you have to keep the wire accross the split contact to make heat and it MUST stay there to get the solder to suck in. I have one and tried it but it took too long compared to the good old iron! Good pic, I should have took one of mine before I installed it.

This same setup has been on my car for about 2 years now with no issues. I do have 1 high flow cat so I'm thinking that's why it worked for me so long versus the guys with the headers. My cat cleans some out, but being 3" and high flow, it doesn't do what the ECU wants when it's cold out, so this fix does the trick. I might add, I only got the P0421 code when it was cold out. When it was warm, zero codes.

I almost bought one tonight at Radio Shack while I was picking up some heat shrink tubing. I always hold the iron against the wire to get it heated up then touch the solder to the wire itself. I was thinking that I could solder the eliminator in without pulling the O2, but then I pictured myself laying under the car with molten solder suspended above my face...

I have a 3" high-flow right now with 0 codes so far. The only reason I am doing the eliminator is because my cat ate itself. I'm replacing it with either a straight pipe or a resonator.

JCell

01-03-2006, 10:28 PM

ummm, my cel keeps coming on and off, usually by the 3rd day it does either....

what could it be?

RaiderMP5

01-03-2006, 10:31 PM

ummm, my cel keeps coming on and off, usually by the 3rd day it does either.... what could it be?

Man, that sucks! the 2 non-foulr method, right? Did you reset the ECU with the key turned to accessory, disconnecting, etc?

you replaced the o2 sensor, right?

JCell

01-03-2006, 10:35 PM

no, i didn't think i'd have to since the cel went away...but alas she came back

i reseted the ecu by just unplugging the battery for some time

RaiderMP5

01-03-2006, 10:38 PM

no, i didn't think i'd have to since the cel went away...but alas she came back
i reseted the ecu by just unplugging the battery for some time

Yeah, I had the same problem for 15 minutes, CEL never went out. Go ahead, turn key to accessory, unplug - terminal. pump brakes. key off, sit 10 minutes. - terminal on, then see how it goes.

JCell

01-03-2006, 11:52 PM

worth a try, thanks!!!!

Bigg Tim

01-04-2006, 12:43 AM

I almost bought one tonight at Radio Shack while I was picking up some heat shrink tubing. I always hold the iron against the wire to get it heated up then touch the solder to the wire itself. I was thinking that I could solder the eliminator in without pulling the O2, but then I pictured myself laying under the car with molten solder suspended above my face...

I have a 3" high-flow right now with 0 codes so far. The only reason I am doing the eliminator is because my cat ate itself. I'm replacing it with either a straight pipe or a resonator.

LOL, I soldered mine in while it was on the car. You just have to make sure you are not directly under the soldering, oh and........wear a long sleave shirt!!!! solder burns fuckin hurt!!!!

Spooled

01-07-2006, 03:36 PM

Well, I got the MIL eliminator wired in while the cat was being replaced with a resonator. It seems to be working perfectly so far. Of course the cat was completely gutted for a couple days without a CEL, too.

JCell

02-08-2006, 12:39 PM

has anyone have had any rust developing on teh non floulers? i looked at them yesterday and it looks like some rust is building up

NegatiZE

02-08-2006, 12:48 PM

I dunno, but my check engine light has been coming on intermittently here and there, but will go away next time I start the car. I had the code scanned and its definitely the o2 sensor, perhaps I should go and try to clean the fouler out.

RaiderMP5

02-08-2006, 01:14 PM

I was under the car recently, looked like new. You guys just gotta stop drivng into the ocean...

P5 Rally

02-08-2006, 01:21 PM

has anyone have had any rust developing on teh non floulers? i looked at them yesterday and it looks like some rust is building up

yup...i have some rust on mine. The high heat paint i sprayed on the non-foulers didnt really work. It bubbled and flaked off. I guess canadian winters are to harsh for that stuff. No worries, as long as there are no leaks youre golden

JCell

02-08-2006, 01:52 PM

Thanks!

Spooled

02-09-2006, 11:05 AM

My CEL came on a few days ago. I need to get the code scanned, but I have a good feeling that it's the second O2 sensor. I'm 100% sure that I made and installed the eliminator correctly. Has anyone else had this happen?

If the O2 isn't working anymore, then I'll probably just get a new one and try the non-fouler method. If it's just a cat failure code, then do you guys have any ideas on how to fix it? Is there an O2 simulator for our cars (ie - remove the second O2 completely, plug the exhaust bung, and plug something into the second O2 wire like a terminator)?

PBW_Pro5

02-11-2006, 02:33 AM

I have tried both ways, When I did the wireing, I had nothing but problems. I then tried it witht he non foulers and have no CEL's since. That has been all summer and thru the winter.

bazooka joe

02-11-2006, 08:41 AM

wired cel eliminator...6000 miles...no issues!

Spooled

02-11-2006, 04:03 PM

Well, I stopped at AutoZone and checked the code. It said that there was "no activity" from the second sensor. Does that mean it's toast? I Seafoamed the engine then reset the code. It came back after about 12 miles.

Ideally there should be something to replace the second O2 rather than alter the signal.

ottawaP5

02-11-2006, 05:21 PM

Spooled

02-12-2006, 11:46 PM

Possibly, but I'm pretty sure it was a good solder job. It's weird that it worked fine for 300 miles, then threw a "no activity" code. Anyway, I just ordered an O2 sim from here:
http://o2simulator.com/24803.html

Hopefully that takes care of my problem.

Lord_Zath

02-12-2006, 11:50 PM

It's weird that it worked fine for 300 miles, then threw a "no activity" code.

I think that's what happens for people who don't do anything to their second 02 sensor - just leave it in. So perhaps the mil isn't working at all - wrong capacitor, bad solder job, etc...

just go for the nonfouler trick. it works and is harder to screw up :)

Spooled

02-13-2006, 11:56 AM

I think that's what happens for people who don't do anything to their second 02 sensor - just leave it in. So perhaps the mil isn't working at all - wrong capacitor, bad solder job, etc...

just go for the nonfouler trick. it works and is harder to screw up :)

I already ordered an O2 sim from o2sim.com. That's the best route IMO. I don't like the non-fouler idea. You might as well just cap off the bung and hang the O2 somewhere in the engine bay.

I honestly don't think the DIY eliminator works 100%. After doing some more research I found out that the ECU looks for more than just a voltage range.

I'll let everyone know how this sim works out. They shipped it today and I should get it in a day or two.

Lord_Zath

02-13-2006, 07:42 PM

ok good luck!

Mazdarulez

02-25-2006, 01:19 PM

Good Info

Spooled

02-27-2006, 02:57 PM

Ok guys, I may have a combo that works perfectly and lets you completely remove the second O2 sensor.

First I bought a universal O2 simulator from www.o2sim.com (http://www.o2sim.com) for $25. This is NOT the same thing as using a resistor since this uses a 555 timer to pulse the signal within the correct voltage range. This takes care of the signal itself, but does not simulate the heater circuit.

Next I went to RadioShack and bought a 10 ohm / 10 watt wirewound resistor (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062291) for $1.90 including tax. I soldered this inline with the heater circuit wires. Here is a diagram from o2sim.com that has been modified to show the heater circuit sim. The wire colors don't match up to the factory connector, so pay attention to the diagram. I had to use a multimeter and a service manual to figure this out. I recommend that you at least check the voltage with ignition on to differentiate between the heater power and heater ground wires.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Spooled/o2simdiag.gif

I soldered everything together on the sensor side of the plug so that I can install and remove it simply by disconnecting it. Ideally you would pick up an extra O2 connector and make this using it, however I just cut the stock O2 off and used that connector.

Now, before you run out and do this, let me test it out for a bit. So far I haven't thrown a code, but I have only started the car 3 times and have only driven about 15 miles on it. If I do throw a code, it will most likely be for the heater circuit due to me picking the wrong resistor (I guessed that a 10 ohm / 10 watt would be the right range). If that happens, I will try a 50 ohm / 25 watt resistor.

I will try to get a couple pics up ASAP. If this works out, then people will have an all-in-one replacement for the secondary O2.

Spooled

02-28-2006, 09:22 PM

So far so good! The car is driving great since I installed this, and still no CEL. It appeards to be working great. Time to head to RadioShack to pick up a project enclosure.

Zhan

03-06-2006, 04:26 PM

What is the heater circuit simulator for? Is it necessary in order to use the O2 simulator, or is it just so you can go without the O2 sensor?

Spooled

03-06-2006, 06:20 PM

What is the heater circuit simulator for? Is it necessary in order to use the O2 simulator, or is it just so you can go without the O2 sensor?

The heater circuit is what brings the O2 sensor up to its operating temperature range quickly. O2 sensors don't read correctly until they are hot. All it does is pump voltage through a heater element inside the O2 sensor.

Most O2 simulators only simulate the O2 signal. You normally have to keep the O2 sensor installed and the heater circuit wires connected. The ECU checks to make sure that there is a certain resistance in the heater circuit so it knows if the O2 goes completely bad or is removed. I just cheated that with a resistor (10 ohm/10 watt wirewound). That way the ECU thinks that everything is fine and dandy withthe second O2 sensor when in reality is is completely gone.

Zhan

03-06-2006, 06:35 PM

So if I keep the O2 sensor connected and just use the O2 simulator without simulating the heater circuit, it'll work like a MIL eliminator?

Breeegz

03-06-2006, 08:00 PM

FYI, for us with the Non-foulers, the step to reset our ECU is an unnessary step, the CEL will go out on its own. I imagine that it's the same way for everyone... but I don't know for sure.

RaiderMP5

03-06-2006, 08:06 PM

I had to reset mine to get it off. And I had to reset it with the key on to accessory before discoing battery, pumping brakes, key off, letting it sit, power on.

I like not seeing that stupid light. Of course, you can take out the bulb...

Breeegz

03-06-2006, 08:12 PM

it took a couple hours worth of driving, shut off the next day...

Spooled

03-06-2006, 08:17 PM

So if I keep the O2 sensor connected and just use the O2 simulator without simulating the heater circuit, it'll work like a MIL eliminator?

Yes.

tekkie

03-18-2006, 06:44 PM

cool I just ordered one as well :)

ozmojo1

03-19-2006, 03:12 PM

spooled- hows your combo working out?

Spooled

03-27-2006, 04:11 PM

spooled- hows your combo working out?

Sorry, haven't been on here for a while.

It's working PERFECTLY right now. I have been running without a second O2 for a couple thousand miles without any issues. I highly recommend this solution if you are putting custom exhaust on without a second cat. You won't have to bother with an O2 bung, plus it gets that sensor out of the flow path.

ozmojo1

04-07-2006, 11:07 AM

I am going to attempt to do this for my second o2 sensor in my 96 mx-6. we have the same engine and exhaust system for the most part so it should work. however, my downstream o2 has two white, one black and one grey wire. how do i test to see what is what? thanks, Rory

Kansei

04-28-2006, 09:04 PM

Sorry, haven't been on here for a while.

It's working PERFECTLY right now. I have been running without a second O2 for a couple thousand miles without any issues. I highly recommend this solution if you are putting custom exhaust on without a second cat. You won't have to bother with an O2 bung, plus it gets that sensor out of the flow path.

I've been running fine without the second O2 for about 8 thousand miles with no issues :)

But, now that I have the MAM midpipe and already installed a new oxygen sensor into it, I need some help. I need to know what wires on the MSP factory 2nd O2 sensor extender harness correspond to the colors on my oxygen sensor so that I can extend some wires and get it all connected. I have a yellow with blue stripe, black with blue strip, green with red stripe, and an orange. It's the same wiring colors as on my factory second oxygen sensor harness, but I don't have the original sensor to check the colors.

Also, for anyone who has an MSP, where the factory harness branches off to go to the two oxygen sensors, where does the black ground wire on the msp 2nd oxygen sensor harness get attached? I can't find a bolt in the area that is small enough to fit through the little loop connector that it came with.

Kansei

04-28-2006, 09:15 PM

nautical2086

04-29-2006, 01:01 PM

this is what I should do cuz now I have my AWR header right?

Spooled

04-29-2006, 04:02 PM

*bump* can anyone verify these colors? http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2442223&postcount=44

it's from a picture I found online, but it isn't a generic picture because it does show the factory plug.

I checked mine and drew this up really quick. I hope it makes sense.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Spooled/msp-02-harness.jpg

Kansei

04-29-2006, 04:09 PM

I checked mine and drew this up really quick. I hope it makes sense.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Spooled/msp-02-harness.jpg

Thanks for the image, I think that's how I have it wired. I've started the car 5 or 6 times and have driven maybe 45 minutes and the CEL isn't bad yet so I think things are ok.

Rac3rX

04-29-2006, 04:12 PM

Im getting prepped to do a header install, Im doing the following:

Heat wrapping the Headers
Installing the Headers
wirring up the Cel Eliminator

Im needing help in all 3 as its a first timer for me.

Im going to muster up a page with pics and details of all 3 to help out as the "How To's" We have now are only for the Cel Eliminator and it lacks pics of what thing look like (Good diagram though A+)

My Question for the Cel eliminator at this point is what couler stripes and in what order are the stripes on the 1m ohm resistor?

I got a variaty pack (only pack they had with a 1m ohm)

IS IT Brown - Black - Green - ?

Im going to have a few more questions Im sure, Ill provide pics of each step I go though making sure Im on the right path, That should be some time next week. Thanks!!!

Rac3rX

04-29-2006, 05:07 PM

Step1:
-Pop Open the Hood and get a look at the 2nd Oxygen Sensor
-There is a clip..Push the clip in and pull out the Male-Female Connection
-Using Adjustable Wrench Remove the Oxygen Sensor

DAMIT, Now Im confused!!!!

Okay, so If I pop open the Hood and look at the o2 sensor, is this not the FIRST o2 sensor, and NOT the Second?

Isnt the Second o2 Sensor UNDER THE car?

From top to Bottom

EGR (Visible when the hoods up)

First o2 Sensor (Visible when the hoods up)

Second o2 sensor (Visible from Under the car)

Also the Pics in this "How To" show under the hood, but we see the First o2 sensor dont we???

Laser03pro

04-29-2006, 05:09 PM

If you open the hood and look down you can see both sensors the second one is down not to far after the pre cat on the pass side. Both connectors for both sensors are side by side almost.

Rac3rX

04-29-2006, 05:11 PM

If you open the hood and look down you can see both sensors the second one is down not to far after the pre cat on the pass side. Both connectors for both sensors are side by side almost.

Gotcha, and thanks, I just realized the pic show the Clip to disconect, and you still need to be under the car to get at the sensor non the less.

Laser03pro

04-29-2006, 05:13 PM

Yeh you still need to be under the car you can see both the wires here. Wire on the bottom goes to the second 02 sensor.
http://dosle.technodump.com/p5/headerinstall/106_0676.JPG

Rac3rX

04-29-2006, 06:30 PM

For the wiring, I searched and so far Brown - Black - Green resistors are the 1m ohm.

As to the diagram, I cut the blue wire & soder one end of the resistor, one end of the capacitor & one end of the bleu cut wire all together & The other side of the blue cut wire gets sodered to the un-sodered end of the resistor.

I tape up all this leaving the un-sodered end of the capacitator exposed, and I then expose some of the white wire (without cutting it) and soder in the exposed end of the capascitor, taping it all up when done.

So far have I made a mistake?????

Thanks For any help!!!!

nautical2086

05-03-2006, 05:04 PM

userful

goodweather

05-06-2006, 05:55 PM

would this mod works if the 2nd sensor is not plugged in?
since i got a ractive header that only take the 1st sensor and no where else to put the 2nd one...

Rac3rX

05-06-2006, 05:57 PM

would this mod works if the 2nd sensor is not plugged in?
since i got a ractive header that only take the 1st sensor and no where else to put the 2nd one...

You need a bung drilled before the second cat for the sesor to go into and it need be plugged in.

The Cell comes from the 2nd o2 Sensor & the fix is applyed to it.

Kansei

05-06-2006, 06:39 PM

You need a bung drilled before the second cat for the sesor to go into and it need be plugged in.

The Cell comes from the 2nd o2 Sensor & the fix is applyed to it.

eep no. If you are going to get a bung drilled, get it drilled AFTER the second cat, and then install your 2nd O2 sensor there and you won't need. the CEL/MIL eliminator. That's why I got the MAM high-flow cat midpipe as it has a bung after the cat (it's probably there for people with widebands but works fine for my 2nd O2 sensor.

Rac3rX

05-06-2006, 07:04 PM

eep no. If you are going to get a bung drilled, get it drilled AFTER the second cat, and then install your 2nd O2 sensor there and you won't need. the CEL/MIL eliminator. That's why I got the MAM high-flow cat midpipe as it has a bung after the cat (it's probably there for people with widebands but works fine for my 2nd O2 sensor.

That is a even better solution, you can extend the o2 sensor behind the second cat, THEN you dont actually need the fix.

However INORDER for this fix (Mil Eliminator) to work I am correct!

So its not "eep no" Its Better yet. (ughdance)

Kansei

05-06-2006, 11:25 PM

Yeah I guess the "eep no" wasn't appropriate, I just wanted to let him know that if he was going to get a bung welded anyway, might as well toss it after the cat; then just extend 4 wires and be done with it. Actually the MIL eliminator is probably easier because routing the wiring back to the rear sensor location was sorta a pain.

P5 Rally

05-10-2006, 03:10 PM

update....after about 2 yrs I through a CEL. I have a faulty rear O2 and will replace it....and yes I have the non-fouler mod

Spooled

05-10-2006, 06:03 PM

update....after about 2 yrs I through a CEL. I have a faulty rear O2 and will replace it....and yes I have the non-fouler mod

Replace it with my setup. MUCH cheaper and easier to do again if something goes wrong down the road.

P5 Rally

05-11-2006, 02:03 PM

Replace it with my setup. MUCH cheaper and easier to do again if something goes wrong down the road.

no thanks...I prefer to keep the 02 in working order withour modifying the signal to the ECU, that way I know if the primary O2 is working or if anything else on my emissions system is fried.

If I'm not mistaken, your setup is telling the ECU that all is good when in fact it might not be. You ECU is getting a "cheated" reading from the O2 becaus the MIL fix is limiting the voltage readings. With the non-fouler trick, the ECU still reads whatever signal the O2 sends to it.

I'll keep y'all updated

Spooled

05-11-2006, 02:41 PM

no thanks...I prefer to keep the 02 in working order withour modifying the signal to the ECU, that way I know if the primary O2 is working or if anything else on my emissions system is fried.

If I'm not mistaken, your setup is telling the ECU that all is good when in fact it might not be. You ECU is getting a "cheated" reading from the O2 becaus the MIL fix is limiting the voltage readings. With the non-fouler trick, the ECU still reads whatever signal the O2 sends to it.

I'll keep y'all updated

No, my setup tells the ECU that the second O2 is there and working fine. The second O2 is for emissions only, so the end result is exactly the same as the non-fouler. The non-fouler is sending the ECU and innacurate signal. If it sent the correct signal, the ECU would throw a code because it's reading outside of the normal emission range. It's two means to the same end, except mine is easier and cheaper to replace if something goes wrong. Plus it's not in the exhaust flow, so there is less restriction.

P5 Rally

05-11-2006, 04:22 PM

No, my setup tells the ECU that the second O2 is there and working fine. ...... Plus it's not in the exhaust flow, so there is less restriction.

Thats just it. If I'm not mistaken, you're running without the rear O2 installed and the ECU is thinking its there and is OK. I'm runnin it for emissions and economy purposes. The nonfouler route still utilizes the rear O2 to help keep emissions under control, without fudging the voltage sent to the ECU. If I ran the MIL eleiminator, I wouldn't have known what was going on. My O2 took a shit and the ECU caught the problem...thus the CEL coming on. If you're rear O2 ever took a shit on you, you would never know because of the setup that your running (but I could be wrong)....but since it's not even installed, it doesn't matter!

Spooled

05-12-2006, 11:05 AM

Thats just it. If I'm not mistaken, you're running without the rear O2 installed and the ECU is thinking its there and is OK. I'm runnin it for emissions and economy purposes. The nonfouler route still utilizes the rear O2 to help keep emissions under control, without fudging the voltage sent to the ECU. If I ran the MIL eleiminator, I wouldn't have known what was going on. My O2 took a shit and the ECU caught the problem...thus the CEL coming on. If you're rear O2 ever took a shit on you, you would never know because of the setup that your running (but I could be wrong)....but since it's not even installed, it doesn't matter!

But you ARE "fudging" the signal to the ECU. The non-fouler reads less of the exhaust than it normally would, therefore telling the ECU that the exhaust content is something other than what it really is. The second O2 doesn't control exhaust emissions, it just checks to make sure that the catalytic converter is doing what it should be (accelerating the conversion of CO into CO2, etc.).

I don't even have a second O2, so the chances of it going bad are, well, 0%. I don't have a cat, so there is no need for me to run a second O2. If you are running exhaust that causes your second O2 to foul out or give bad readings, then there is no need for you to run a second O2. You just need to tell the ECU that everything is fine back there. Having that second O2 intact and sending a signal does NOT alter your emmisions as long as the ECU thinks everything is fine.

Again, the second O2 is a failure check to see if your cat is doing its job. That's all. If you second O2 is tripping a code and you have stock exhaust, then you have other issues. The non-fouler won't help you there.

Killer 8

05-20-2006, 12:30 PM

is there anyway to find which black wire is which, without having to use a power source finder? Just tryn to save time since i don't want to run a second O2

02PROTEGE2.0

05-28-2006, 06:22 PM

so once i install my ractive headers, cna i do this and leave the o2 sensor out or do i have to have it screwed into a bung? because i dont have the money to have a second bung put it at the moment.

Kansei

05-28-2006, 06:34 PM

so once i install my ractive headers, cna i do this and leave the o2 sensor out or do i have to have it screwed into a bung? because i dont have the money to have a second bung put it at the moment.

I say just leave the 2nd sensor out and deal with the CEL until you have the money. Some people report lower gas mileage or something but myself and other haven't so who knows. I ran with the CEL for ~10,000 miles with no problem. I ended up just getting the MAM catted midpipe instead of getting a bung welded.

02PROTEGE2.0

05-28-2006, 07:20 PM

would it be unwise to get the catless MAM midpipe? its cheaper... and has he bung... and im poor. word.

Kansei

05-28-2006, 07:26 PM

From an environmental standpoint it would be extremely unwise. :)

Whenever I'm stuck behind someone running catless I want to die.

Rac3rX

05-28-2006, 07:27 PM

would it be unwise to get the catless MAM midpipe? its cheaper... and has he bung... and im poor. word.

That would be a GREAT idea, If you dont care about riding cat-less, (Im not sure they have a Cat-less one, but they could, If so you would need to do the non-fouler trick to 2 of your 02 sensors (2 & 3) because there would be no cat at all) ME Im getting the MAM Mid pipe with a high flow Cat. Im getting it in a month or 2.

RaiderMP5

05-28-2006, 07:39 PM

the 2nd bung should be no more than $30 to be installed. Go to a LOCAL shop, not Midas. BTW, Where did you find a Ractive header?

Rac3rX

05-28-2006, 11:02 PM

the 2nd bung should be no more than $30 to be installed. Go to a LOCAL shop, not Midas. BTW, Where did you find a Ractive header?

I think he got it off ebay.

Yeah it would be arround 30$ to get the bung installed but 99$ for a MAM mid pipe and he will get better gains from the header + Mid pipe.

02PROTEGE2.0

06-12-2006, 09:54 PM

wow i forgot that i posted in this... haha
yea they have a catless one from mam... its 99 as opposed to 199...

i dont think i wanna go completely catless... that stuff is crazy loud.

30 bucks eh? i'll ahve to look into that!

02PROTEGE2.0

06-12-2006, 09:54 PM

02PROTEGE2.0

06-12-2006, 09:57 PM

btw... yea i got that ractive header off ebay... and i got it for 60 shipped! i got it thru a 99 cent no reserve store on ebay... the bid ended at like 10 30 on a tuesday... middle of the day... so no one else bid on it... so i got that thing dirt cheap... well worth the money for that price!

nautical2086

06-12-2006, 09:57 PM

yeah catless is fucking loud and annoying, i did the cel eliminator with the non fouler's so far im loving it.

Kansei

06-12-2006, 09:59 PM

don't bother with catless. There's seriously like 0 performance gain and who the hell cares.. why bother fucking the environment, even if it is just a little bit.

nautical2086

06-12-2006, 10:30 PM

well im catless right now only cuz my corksport exhaust elminates the cat under the car, and i put just the header on which elminates the pre cat, so for now im catless until next week when i put the high flow cat in.

Gordinho80

07-11-2006, 12:42 AM

bazooka joe

07-11-2006, 06:55 AM

the CEL on my 00 Protege is on, car seems to be getting less mileage now with it onf...when I ran the code i got p0421...

will this eliminate that code and make the car run better?

thanks...
another newb...

welcome newbe...have you removed your cat?...this cel/mil eliminator is for those who have removed their frist cat...(installed a header or turbo/downpipe)....the po421 code is:P0401 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected

Kansei

07-11-2006, 11:50 AM

welcome newbe...have you removed your cat?...this cel/mil eliminator is for those who have removed their frist cat...(installed a header or turbo/downpipe)....the po421 code is:P0401 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected

Sounds like time for an EGR valve cleaning.

See here: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94788

bazooka joe

07-11-2006, 12:56 PM

Sounds like time for an EGR valve cleaning.

See here: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94788

chris, how do you think the car would run without the egr...removed all together?

Rac3rX

07-11-2006, 01:23 PM

Well as it is right now, my EGR is not hooked up to my header, I have it closed up with muffler tape, she runs fine, idles fine, ect. For N/A it pretty much just for emmissions.

She will run on a boosted car without it, but it helps to keep temps down and this helps prevent detonation, so its kinda like a emmissions/safty feature on boosted cars.

Kansei

07-11-2006, 02:07 PM

chris, how do you think the car would run without the egr...removed all together?

I've never looked into it. It doesn't bug me at all and if it makes my exhaust gases cleaner, all the better.

Rac3rX how does it keep temps down? I'm thinking about the setup of it, doesn't it just recirc exhaust gases back into the intake track so that any unburnt fuel in the exhaust gets burned? Hey wait though it's only hooked up to the exhaust coming out of cylinder 4 (don't know if I have the number correct.. the one all the way to the right in the bay) so it's only having that emissions effect for one cylinder worth of the exhaust flow. :'(

Rac3rX

07-11-2006, 04:46 PM

I've never looked into it. It doesn't bug me at all and if it makes my exhaust gases cleaner, all the better.

Rac3rX how does it keep temps down? I'm thinking about the setup of it, doesn't it just recirc exhaust gases back into the intake track so that any unburnt fuel in the exhaust gets burned? Hey wait though it's only hooked up to the exhaust coming out of cylinder 4 (don't know if I have the number correct.. the one all the way to the right in the bay) so it's only having that emissions effect for one cylinder worth of the exhaust flow. :'(

Yes it does, and by doing so the temps are reduced.

Also I have a CEL because of it, that bugs thhe shit out of me, but I too damn lazy to pull it off and Fix it.

bazooka joe

07-11-2006, 06:15 PM

snowblazin has no egr valve....car seems to run okay but he has the po401 code too!

Rac3rX

07-11-2006, 06:49 PM

The car will run fine but it helps to prevent detonation, recirculating the exhaust gasses actually lowers the operating temp.

nautical2086

07-11-2006, 07:20 PM

2000 miles no cel.

Gordinho80

07-11-2006, 10:28 PM

welcome newbe...have you removed your cat?...this cel/mil eliminator is for those who have removed their frist cat...(installed a header or turbo/downpipe)....the po421 code is:P0401 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected

the car is still stock...have not touched anything...90k miles on it...

i really think that my cat is bad...i need a quick, easy, and most of all, cheap fix for this as my inspection is already 2 months expired and if i bring it through state again and fail, i'm gonna be royally screwed...

can I do this mod and expect the CEL to stay off long enough to get the car inspected? this code is the only thing keeping it from passing...i cant afford another non-inspected vehicle ticket...whatever I can do in an hour or so before the weekend so i can bring the car through on Sat morning...

thanks...
Mario

Rac3rX

07-11-2006, 10:31 PM

Kansei

07-11-2006, 10:32 PM

the car is still stock...have not touched anything...90k miles on it...

i really think that my cat is bad...i need a quick, easy, and most of all, cheap fix for this as my inspection is already 2 months expired and if i bring it through state again and fail, i'm gonna be royally screwed...

can I do this mod and expect the CEL to stay off long enough to get the car inspected? this code is the only thing keeping it from passing...i cant afford another non-inspected vehicle ticket...whatever I can do in an hour or so before the weekend so i can bring the car through on Sat morning...

thanks...
Mario

The CEL eliminator will not fix your problem if it is complaining about insufficient EGR flow. It is meant to fix Oxygen sensor woes. Unless you also have a code for the oxygen sensor having a strange reading, your cat is probably ok.

Seriously though, cleaning the EGR valve is easier (and cheaper) than doing any of the CEL Eliminator methods. Just pick up some intake manifold cleaner, get your intake out of the way, undo a couple bolts, pull it out, clean it, and then put it all back together.

How is your car idling? Is it smooth or does it idle low and/or rough?

Gordinho80

07-11-2006, 11:07 PM

P0401 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected

Sound like a stuck or clogged EGR, clean that reset the ECU and see if it returns

the code read is not P0401...it is P0421...something about the cat not working correctly...

again...this is a 2000 Protege ES Auto

Kansei

07-11-2006, 11:24 PM

Gordinho80

07-11-2006, 11:27 PM

Oh ok. Sorry I must have misread your previous post or confused it with someone else's. The mil eliminator might be a temp fix, or you could try the spark plug nonfouler trick (easier). As long as the code is talking about invalid readings or something and not just having a missing (or completely fried/dead) sensor, the fix might work for you.

yeah...i would think that if the sensor itself was bad, the code would reflect that and mention the sensor...this code specifically says "Warm Up Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)"

Kansei

07-11-2006, 11:40 PM

I never got my CEL pulled when I was missing my 2nd O2 sensor because I knew why the light was there.

bazooka joe

07-12-2006, 07:40 AM

Oh ok. Sorry I must have misread your previous post or confused it with someone else's. The mil eliminator might be a temp fix, or you could try the spark plug nonfouler trick (easier). As long as the code is talking about invalid readings or something and not just having a missing (or completely fried/dead) sensor, the fix might work for you.

my bad!(pissed)

sounds like the mil eliminator would work then

tlr5613

08-04-2006, 10:25 PM

the car is still stock...have not touched anything...90k miles on it...

i really think that my cat is bad...i need a quick, easy, and most of all, cheap fix for this as my inspection is already 2 months expired and if i bring it through state again and fail, i'm gonna be royally screwed...

can I do this mod and expect the CEL to stay off long enough to get the car inspected? this code is the only thing keeping it from passing...i cant afford another non-inspected vehicle ticket...whatever I can do in an hour or so before the weekend so i can bring the car through on Sat morning...

thanks...
Mario

I know that if I reset my ECU. Unplug Negative battery terminal and press the break for about 1 min then hook the battery back up my CEL light will stay off for about 50 miles. So if you are only looking for it to stay off while getting it inspected this might work for you.

adedude

08-17-2006, 02:16 PM

Please help! I put the 1 megaohm resister inline on the blue wire and now I am getting P0140 DTC: HO2S (rear) circuit no activity detected. "If input voltage from sensor never exceeds .55 V for 30 seconds, PCM determines that sensor is not activated." I checked the connections and it is nice and tight.

I drive a 2000 Protege with the 1.6L ZM-DE engine. I have the OBX header installed. I am guessing that I need to use a smaller resistor, but which one should I use?

RaiderMP5

08-17-2006, 03:12 PM

Try this instead.,
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123634664

tlr5613

08-26-2006, 12:49 PM

PLEASE MAKE THIS A STICKY or Locate to the How To!

I have seen lots of questions about how to make your own MIL/CEL Eliminator..

Well its really simple!

Tools Needed:
Wire Cutters
Soldering Iron
Solder
Electrical Tape
1-M Ohm Resistor ($1 at Radio Shack)
1-uF Capacitor($1 at Radio Shack)
Adjustable Wrench

Step1:
-Pop Open the Hood and get a look at the 2nd Oxygen Sensor
-There is a clip..Push the clip in and pull out the Male-Female Connection
-Using Adjustable Wrench Remove the Oxygen Sensor

Step2:
-Go somewhere you can use your Soldering Iron
-Cut the Blue Wire
-Remove the Sheathing on the White wire to expose the Copper Wiring Underneath
-Grab you 1m Ohm resistor and solder it into the bluewires you cut earlier
-Grap your 1uF capactiro and solder it into the wire that you unsheathed/exposed & than solder it on the connector side as show on the Pic!
-Grab your electrical tape and make sure you do a good job covering all the conections

Step3:
-Reinstall using the reverse directions in step 1!

Typical install time is 15-20min depending on your ability to solder!

Chas

I was wondering if anyone has a better picture of what wire I need to do this to? Thanks

Rac3rX

08-26-2006, 01:27 PM

I was wondering if anyone has a better picture of what wire I need to do this to? Thanks

Try this instead.,
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123634664

;)

210_ZOOM

09-08-2006, 06:22 PM

subn

PFUNK5

09-25-2006, 04:23 PM

this is still going on?! Man, I wish everybody had an obdII scanner...still no CEL for me, and I got 64,000 miles

210_ZOOM

10-06-2006, 04:42 PM

subn

sephiroth

02-21-2007, 01:38 AM

I just tried this on my 1.8L ES and instead of fixing it I've thrown a P1135 CEL. Which, from what I can understand from this (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10215&highlight=P1135) thread, means that by splicing the heater wires together has created a low voltage situation in which the ECU thinks there's something physically wrong with the O2 sensor. I'm using the same 1M resistor, but I'm using a 50V (still a 1uf) electrolyitic cap, is anyone using a metal-film 250V cap instead and having success? they're both 1uf, but the metal film was 250V, and +/- 10% variance and the electrolytic was 20%

Velburg

02-22-2007, 12:59 AM

ok, question.. I just bought my spicy orange. I dont have a header on my but I did throw a code of the o2 sensor warm up circuit. Can I disconnect it and the light will eventually go off if I dont use the obdII scanner to erase it or should I just go with the non fouler setup or do the resistor setup and this is for the 2nd o2 sensor instead of the first (correct me if wrong).. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!

BlkWidow

02-26-2007, 06:33 PM

i have to say the non-fouler work for my car with the header, but after i boostd it it did not work. i had 2days to get it fixed before the emissions suspended my lic.. so i did the the how to stated and i passed. have to say thanks acidbag for the how-to. wilson

beerbucket

03-30-2007, 01:45 AM

Hi folks,

I've just had the MIL come on in my 99 Miata, and have read this thread with interest. I have a few questions, some info and a suggestion...

Q1. Is it legal to put your car through emissions with this installed?

I borrowed my friends OBDII scanner to get the code (usual, P0421) and was reading the manual with interest. It has a good description of how the O2 sensors figure out how the catalytic converter is performing:

" The computer checks the efficiency of the catalytic converter by monitoring the two oxygen sensors that are utilized in the system, one before (upstream) and the other located after (downstream) the converter. If the catalytic converter loses its ability to store oxygen, the downstream oxygen sensor signal voltage waveform becomes almost identical to the upstream oxygen sensor signal, and the monitor will fail the test."

So, in other words.. the computer compares upstream voltage to downstream voltage, and if downstream isn't smaller than upstream, the MIL comes on.

It seems to me that the mod here just attenuates the downstream voltage enough to make the computer think that the cataytic converter has done its job well.

Q2. Has anyone tried this mod without the cap?

A 1M resistor will surely attenuate the signal enough on its own! What could the cap be for? If nobody else has tried it, I will. It would be a much nicer mod, too: an inline resistor, all heatshrinked up. :-)

Finally, just so I'm sure to get this right:

Q3. It's the O2 sensor *after* the catalyst (downstream) that gets the mod, right?

Any comments are appreciated!

jeg0024

03-30-2007, 02:09 AM

1. Probably not.

2. what cap?

3. correct.

jeg0024

03-30-2007, 02:11 AM

Anyways...this thread is much better, its the one that I did... Click Here (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123634664)

greasemonkey524

07-02-2007, 01:11 AM

Will this work if you run an electric exhaust cut-out right before the 2nd O2 sensor. I'm in the process of having someone make one for me and I was wondering what I needed to do. Thanks.
-Rob

808MP5

07-11-2007, 02:49 PM

I have just one question. Maybe im just retarded and don't know how to follow instructions but does it matter what kind of 1uF capicitor to use? i got one of those round ones and not the flat ones as shown in a pic later on in this thread.

Also what do you mean by "Grap your 1uF capactiro and solder it into the wire that you unsheathed/exposed & than solder it on the connector side as show on the Pic!" I cant see anything in the pic. How exactly do i connect the capacitor????? What i really don't understand is where do i solder it on the "connector side?"

I did the resistor part already because those instructions are very clear but i still get a CEL. I wasn't lucky enough as another poster that just did this and "it worked"

Help me please.

PLEASE MAKE THIS A STICKY or Locate to the How To!

I have seen lots of questions about how to make your own MIL/CEL Eliminator..

Well its really simple!

Tools Needed:
Wire Cutters
Soldering Iron
Solder
Electrical Tape
1-M Ohm Resistor ($1 at Radio Shack)
1-uF Capacitor($1 at Radio Shack)
Adjustable Wrench

Step1:
-Pop Open the Hood and get a look at the 2nd Oxygen Sensor
-There is a clip..Push the clip in and pull out the Male-Female Connection
-Using Adjustable Wrench Remove the Oxygen Sensor

Step2:
-Go somewhere you can use your Soldering Iron
-Cut the Blue Wire
-Remove the Sheathing on the White wire to expose the Copper Wiring Underneath
-Grab you 1m Ohm resistor and solder it into the bluewires you cut earlier
-Grap your 1uF capactiro and solder it into the wire that you unsheathed/exposed & than solder it on the connector side as show on the Pic!
-Grab your electrical tape and make sure you do a good job covering all the conections

Step3:
-Reinstall using the reverse directions in step 1!

Typical install time is 15-20min depending on your ability to solder!

Chas

Never mind.... Where was the schematic yesterday when i tried this mod??? Im fricken Retarded

bazooka joe

07-11-2007, 05:42 PM

glad you figured it out! i did this mod 2 yrs ago, no problems!!:)

acidbbg

07-14-2007, 12:54 PM

Wow..I am suprised to see this thread still going strong after many years...Glad to see it has saved many people's a$$'s.

I wonder if this trick will work for the MSP3/6 guys..

The only car i tested this trick on was the 2.0L mazda engine.

Maybe i will try the trick out when i upgrade the exhaust but than again..the msp3/6's use a wideband o2..

-C

808MP5

07-19-2007, 02:48 PM

Well i did everything as stated in the How-to and my CEL still comes on. but atleast it took 60Miles instead of 25Miles to come back on. Does it matter what type of capacitor used? I used the electrolytic Capacitor but in another post i noticed they used a different type of capacitor. I also figured maybe it's an exhaust leak so i changed all the piping under my car and re-welded all the welds though i haven't reset the computer since i did the CEL eliminator.

Capacitor????
I took three classes in electronics so i know that my soldering is ok and i also tested for continuity and everything checks out.

Tom03es

07-19-2007, 03:19 PM

WOW! People are still trying to hack up their O2 wire harness and splice in resistors and capacitors? I did the mechanical fix (HERE (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123634664)) about 10k miles ago and haven't seen that light since.

bazooka joe

07-19-2007, 06:39 PM

i did the same mod almost 3 yrs ago, no issues, works like a charm? maybe recheck everything?(shrug)

BaD_HeX

07-19-2007, 07:27 PM

i did the same mod almost 3 yrs ago, no issues, works like a charm? maybe recheck everything?(shrug)

Couldn't get this to work on my 1.8L. I eventually just gave up and made a non-fouler fix. Been over 10k miles on it with no CEL.

bazooka joe

07-19-2007, 07:48 PM

Couldn't get this to work on my 1.8L. I eventually just gave up and made a non-fouler fix. Been over 10k miles on it with no CEL.
ya, the non fouler is a great mechanical fix for many!!

808MP5

01-15-2008, 04:58 AM

Sorry to say this never worked for me either... but with the non-fouler, that's a different story... Now hmmm... is it because i did both or is it just the non-fouler that did the trick...

rock123

05-30-2008, 10:51 PM

I have been reading all of the post about the MIL to keep the CEL from coming in. It seems all of the post refer to the "protege". I have a 1999 626 and my wiring colors on the 2nd O2 sensor are, grey, white, white, and black. The is only one Cat. Will the same method work on my car. If so how which wire do I hook the resistor and capacitor to. I just need to get an inspection sticker.