BUYER'S GUIDE: SRT-4 VS MSP.

[AustinG]

I Love MY MP3 and plan to turbo it shortly, but when it comes to new cars, why would i want to get a MAZDASLOW when i can get a SRT-4 with 215 HP and a faster car. For about the same price, True the MP3 has great looks and the SRT-4 still looks like a Neon, but it's a faster CAR and the neon body kits look good. :p

[njaremka]

i would bet you would end up with more issue with the neon than you would with the mazdaspeed. (just my opinion)

[APEXistud]

I'm not all that crazy about the SRT-4. But if Dodge offers they're same warranty SRT, they might have a winner on their hands. I'll wait for the final production vehicle before I draw my final conclusions. I honestly don't likethe way the SRT looks even though it is faster.

[JonnyMiata]

#1 it is a Dodge. #2 it is American. #3 I am still waiting to hear good things from someone who owns a Dodge or any other Chrysler product. #4 I get excellent service from my Mazda dealer, why give that up? #5.......well.......it's a Neon (HI!)...NOT! #6 Better stereo system in MSP #7 Neon's interior is boring.......I think I will stop there.

As I said before, these cars are being sold to the tuner community. The MSP will most likely be tuned way above the 200HP mark. I don't think what comes from the factory matters. It is what is given to us to start with as a base. I would rather have a proven Japanese, maintenance free sedan as my base rather than the Dodge Neon (Hi!).

Bye!

Jonny

[Antoine]

Isn’t it 205 hp?

Also, is it using a genuine turbo engine?

[blynzoo]

Neon (Hi!)
(rofl)
Nicely used in the post. i laughed out loud. Good one, JOhnny

[Finnster]

Originally posted by AustinG
why would i want to get a MAZDASLOW when i can get a SRT-4 with 215 HP and a faster car.

Because you don't want:

your door falling off!!! after 18 mos (happened to someone i know):bs:

to blow 3 trannys by 30k (happened to someone else I know)

a body and chassis that has that "recycled beer can" feel to it

a car with a terrible resale value history (don't expect this one to be a huge exception)

Its a freaking NEON!:rolleyes:
Yeah it may come with a good warranty, but thats because they need it. The trouble is all that time you spend in the shop fixing it, OR after the warranty expires, well...good luck my friend. You'll be payin' for all those parts yourself. The MSP will be running strong years after the Neon has been sold for scrap.

Why would i want to spend the same amount of money on a car that handles worse, looks like ass, is completely unreliable, has a usable lifespan half that of the other car, AND be worth less than 100 shares of Enron after 100k mi?:confused:

There's more to a car than HP...

[Finnster]

Originally posted by AustinG
why would i want to get a MAZDASLOW when i can get a SRT-4 with 215 HP and a faster car.

Because you don't want:

your door falling off!!! after 18 mos (happened to someone i know):bs:

to blow 3 trannys by 30k (happened to someone else I know)

a body and chassis that has that "recycled beer can" feel to it

a car with a terrible resale value history (don't expect this one to be a huge exception)

Its a freaking NEON!:rolleyes:
Yeah it may come with a good warranty, but thats because they need it. The trouble is all that time you spend in the shop fixing it, OR after the warranty expires, well...good luck my friend. You'll be payin' for all those parts yourself. The MSP will be running strong years after the Neon has been sold for scrap.

Why would i want to spend the same amount of money on a car that handles worse, looks like ass, is completely unreliable, has a usable lifespan half that of the other car, AND be worth less than 100 shares of Enron after 100k mi?:confused:

There's more to a car than HP...

[AustinG]

OK OK That's True It is still a neon and it is still a domestic , But Let compare this Mazdaspeed VS Subaru WRX only about a grand away from each other. Now What's the Better Car?

[rocbtmd]

Oh my god, didn't we have this conversation before with NorCal_MP3 about five months ago, exept I'm pretty sure his subject was "Forget my MP3.... I'm getting that new ST-4 Neon because I have no taste in cars." ... Alright, I added the last few words but it's still true in my opinion. And that was a neon vs the MP3, not the better stereo, faster, LSD equipped, now with a wide range of aftermarket stuff already set up Mazdaspeed. GIVE ME A BREAK! OK fine, go get your little ugly neon and leave the better car for someone worthy of it. :D :eek: :D :eek:

[rocbtmd]

Well I guess the WRX wins since everyone and their grandma seems to have one.

[odp]

Originally posted by AustinG
OK OK That's True It is still a neon and it is still a domestic , But Let compare this Mazdaspeed VS Subaru WRX only about a grand away from each other. Now What's the Better Car?

Where'd you get your numbers from? Are you sure it's going to be that close to the WRX?

In Canada, the highest price I've heard is $28,000, which is still quite far from the $35,000 of the WRX.

[AustinG]

Go to the Website or talk to a dealer. The Base model WRX here in the US is starting at 23,000

[pr5owner]

omg why the hell would you wanta POS NEON!!! i would rather wait and get the EVOIII, the evo will lay waste to the neon

[colin949]

yeah the new evo is unbelieveably fast

[LinuxRacr]

Why not keep your 2.0 Protege 5/ES/MP3, and get a FM Protege a.k.a. BEGI Turbo kit. Form the most recent dyno (http://www.flyinmiata.com/protege/tech/dyno.asp) numbers, they will overtake that SRT-4 pretty soon. Why not incorperate the quality of Mazda and FM/BEGI? This is where my money is going. You have better handling, better looks, and just an all around better car. The SRT-4 is the car to bamboozle, hoodwink, lead asstray, the masses who just don't know any better!

[slug420]

everyone has said the obvious about the SRT-4.....its A NEON.......

worst......model......ever.

the EVO VII will blow everything away but its gonna be over 30 large.

the WRX for 23 grand doesnt look as good as a mazdaspeed nor does it have all the bells and whistles the mazdaspeed does, and according to reviews, its not as fun to drive either. All the SCC ranting and raving about the WRX being fun to drive (we all know what an excellent car it is) involves sliding sideways through corners, not something I plan on doing too often....


a neon? lol..........go ahead, but 2 of em if it will make you feel better. Just remember all those ppl you think you are going to impress with your 205hp, are laughing at you when you drive by, because you bought a NEON.........

[APEXistud]

It's not a common sight to buy a WRX for MSRP in the bay area. Most dealerships mark it up about $2k. SO comparing the 2, in my book just isn't a fair comparison.

Hey, I slide through corners all the time in my MP3 :p

[pr5owner]

Originally posted by colin949
yeah the new evo is unbelieveably fast

you think the normal evo is fast!!!?!?! check out the Evo ZeroFighter and the Evo RS450!!!!!!

both do 0-60 in under 4.0s that is Viper territory.. not the mention the evo can destroy the viper on wet pavement, snow, ice, you name it!

[sleeper_]

btw, mopar is supposedly gonna sell upgrade kits for the srt-4 for hp increments..
eg, 25hp kit, 50hp kit, etc... this type sorta thing

[AustinG]

!DAMN Talk ABOUT EVO VII !(omg)

Evo VII RS Evo VII GSR
Traction Permanent 4 x 4 Permanent 4 x 4
Engine 2000 16-valves DOHCIntercooler Turbo 2000 16-valves DOHCIntercooler Turbo

Transmission Manual transmission 5 speed Manual transmission
5 speed

Dimensions & Weight *
Length (mm) 4455 4455
Width (mm) 1770 1770
Height (mm) 1450 1450
Wheelbase (mm) 2625 2625
Front Track (mm) 1500 1515
Rear Track (mm) 1500 1515
Min. Height (mm) 140 140
Inside length (mm) 1880 1880
Inside Width (mm) 1425 1425
Inside height (mm) 1185 1185
No. of passengers 5 5
Kerb weight (kg) 1320 1380

Engine *
Type 2.0 litre 16 valve DOHC
intercooled with turbocharger 2.0 litre 16 valve DOHC
intercooled with turbocharger
No. of cylinders 4 4
Cylinder position Inline Inline
Valves 16 16
Camshafts (Position) 2 (DOHC) 2 (DOHC)
Turbo Material Titanium - Aluminium Alloy Titanium - Aluminium Alloy
Bore x stroke (mm) 85.0 x 88.0 85.0 x 88.0
Cylinder cc (cm3) 1997 1997
Compression Ratio 8.8:1 8.8:1
Max. power (PS/rpm) 280 / 6 280 / 6
Max. torque (kg-m/rpm) 39.0 / 3.500 39.0 / 3.500
Carburation Multi-point Electronic Injection
ECI-MULTI Multi-point Electronic Injection
ECI-MULTI
Octane fuel 97 or higher. Unleaded 97 or higher. Unleaded
Fuel tank capacity (l) 48 48

Transmission*
Type 5 Speed Manual 5 Speed Manual
Gear Ratios
1 a 2.785 2.785
2 a 1.950 1.950
3 a 1.444 1.407
4 a 1.096 1.031
5 a 0.825 0.720
M.A 3.416 3.416
Final Gear 4.529 4.529
Front Differential Limited slip differential (LSD) Standard
Rear Differential Limited slip differential (LSD) Active (electronic control)
Stability Program
(Anti Yaw Control) - Standard

Steering
Type Rack & pinion. Power assisted Rack & pinion. Power assisted

Suspension
Front McPherson strut with
inverted-type shock absorbers; McPherson strut with
inverted-type shock absorbers;
Rear Multi-link with stabiliser
bar; aluminium suspension arms Multi-link with stabiliser
bar; aluminium suspension arms

Brakes *
Front 276mm Ventilated discs.
2 pot calipers 320mm Brembo Ventilated discs.
4 pot Aluminium calipers
Rear 284mm Ventilated discs 300mm Brembo Ventilated discs.
2 pot Aluminium calipers
ABS - Sports ABS

Wheels *
Rims front & rear 15" steel 17" x 8JJ alloy
Tyres front & rear 205 / 65R15 235 / 45ZR17

[AustinG]

BUT THE ONLY THING IT"S 30,000
:'(

[Captain KRM P5]

About the engine in the Neon SRT4....it's the same one in the Chrysler PT Cruiser GT, turbo and all. It runs 14 PSI and you get a "whopping" 215hp. The BEGI kit runs 8 PSI and you can well exceed or match that on such an equipped Protege. The 0-60 times on the PT Turbo and SRT4 are between 7.5 - 8.0 seconds. That's not too much faster than a stock MP3. (Source: Car and Driver, Motor Trend)

Looks like Chrysler found a use for all those leftover Mitsubishi Eclipse spoilers from pre-2000 models too :) I bet that non-functional hood scoop really adds to the car too.

A Dodge salesman described the Neon to me as "blessed by God if it makes 60,000 miles". For an SRT4 expect to pay $23,000 (the $20,000 msrp is a joke - the dealers WILL mark this up) plus for a car with a rattly engine, fisher-price interior and the crash test rating of paper mache hitting a brick wall. The Mazdaspeed will perform similarly speedwise, outcorner and outhandle, look and feel better inside and out, and without a doubt rate superior in quality in every respect.

As for the styling, nice and round, bulbous and ball like, I had a friend refer to it as a rolling "cum bubble"....for whatever it is worth....

[jhatfi]

Please. Who really cares about some of this crap. For $20 large you are getting a lot of car with either the Mazdaspeed Protege or the 'so ugly it is almost not' SRT4. I bet the speed and acceleration difference will be minimumal between the two, but the Mazda should offer superior reliability, resale and handling.

And just for the record. I used to own a 2000 Dodge Dakota 4x4 club cab with the 4.7L V8. Awesome truck. Never had one problem in over 50,000 miles. Yes it was a Dodge. Would I buy a Dodge car....probably not, but to be honest I think that most american car suck ass. My fiance has a neon (I tried to reason with her into getting something else) and it has been trouble free since she bought it. As a matter of fact, it has less annoying door and dash rattles than my new protege.

[V Man]

Dude, no offense to anyone on here, but you guys drive Proteges. Just like I drive a Sentra. How can you sit there and say things like, "its a Dodge", or "its a neon"?!? Like our cars are Bentley's compared to Neons. Please...Yes, american cars have been known for not so great build quality and whatnot, but any car is capable of being a lemon or turning into a POS if not properly maintained. I just think it's lame to sit there and bash on a car that none of you have even seen yet!! I think the NA version of the Protege and teh Mazdaspeed are great looking cars (and the Mazdaspeed is a very competitive race for a Spec V), but I just found it amazing that you guys were saying some of the things you were. Sorry for bitching, carry on!! (nuts)

[tritonheat1]

Originally posted by V Man I think the NA version of the Protege and teh Mazdaspeed are great looking cars (and the Mazdaspeed is a very competitive race for a Spec V), [/B]

not dissing the SpecV's, cause i like them and their good cars and my bro has one, But i don't think the SpecV will come to the territory of the Mazdaspeed. I own a 91 Mazda MX-6 Turbo GT 5-speed, and my bro can't even keep keep up after 2nd gear. I'm always beating him by 1car length to 2car lengths. Plus the specs on my MX-6 are:
2.2l SOHC 12-valve Turbocharged and intercooled, boost is set at either 5-8psi all (STOCK)
145hp@4300rpms
190lb-fts@3500rpms
curb weight:....2755lbs.

Sentra SpecV
2.5l DOHC 16-valve Cvtc
175hp@6000rpms
180lb-fts@4000rpms
curb weight:....2743lbs

Plus my bro has added the Injen CAI, Spintech Exhaust, and dropt it 2"inches with Eibach springs.

[V Man]

A 15.3 E.T to a 15.4 E.T seems close enough to boil down to driver skill. Sounds like your brother hasn't gotten the hang of driving the Spec V yet. Have either of you taken it to the track? I average a .562 R/T with a 2.1xx 60 ft. time, and based on the numbers I have read in numerous publications, that is really close, if not better than the Mazdaspeed's 60-ft and 1/8 mile E.T. I rarely lose the "off the line" battle to anything in my car's class (Civic Si, Prelude, Teggy Type R and GSR, etc.). Not taking anything away from your brother, but I think I would give you a run for your money and I onlu have an AEM. Where did he pick up the SpinTech exhaust? Is it a cat-back kit, or a universal muffler? I have come across numerous Spec V owners with universal mufflers that hinder their 1320 times, instead of help. And does he post on www.thevboard.com? It is a forum like this dedicated to the Spec V and SE-R...Peace out...

[tritonheat1]

the Spintech exhaust he picked up is a universal exhaust and he had it full piping to cat-back and he is way better than he was before. Wanna hear something sad, One night he raced his friends 96 Integra LS with intake, and exhaust. His car was stock, he lost to the LS by 1.5car lenghs. So we switched i raced and smoked the Integ by 2 car lenghs. Now that shows how sucky that he was before like 4-5months ago. But now with the mods and improved driving skills he takes GS-R's and Civic SI's with no problem but can't take me with my GT Turbo even though his car has more Hp. So i'm pretty sure that the specV would come close to the Mazdaspeed seeing that:

C&D results:

0-60mph.. 6.9sec
1/4mile.....15.4sec@91mph

SCC results:

0-60mph.. 7.1sec
1/4mile.....15.3sec@93mph

Supposely MT results:

0-60mph.. 6.5sec
1/4mile..... 14.9sec@93.8mph

Plus the car is still spankin brand new and not even broken in yet.

Plus specV' only run 15.5sec 1/4mile times by experienced drivers, check this out
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2121.shtml

[V Man]

So we are comparing the worst times stock for the Spec V and the best times for the Mazdaspeed...:rolleyes: That seems fair...:bs: I know a few members of my forum running 15 flat with just cold air intakes. Unfortunately, there are no cat-back kits available yet (worth the money) teh I would invest in. Like I said before the Spec V (let alone all Nissans) do not react well to universal or custom stuff. Read the new SCC about modding the new 350Z. It lost hp due to a custom built exhaust system...Again, I have seen anywhere from 14.9 (very hard to believe considering the hp and torque) from C&D to a 15.3 from SCC who I trust a bit more with import compacts. They (C&D) tested the Spec V and could barely pull a 15.8 stock when I hit a 15.6 the first day I had it and the first manual I ever drove...I am not trying to start a "who's cock is bigger match," I just think it's funny how little respect the Spec V gets for what it's worth. Throw a turbo on a Protege and it's the sh!t...PLEASE!! I think it's a sharp car, but I would have to see a 14.9 with my own eyes in order for me to believe it. Hell, I know Scoobey owners who are still stuck in the 15's because they can't figure out the launching. I would assume the Mazdaspeed will be the same way as far as spooling up the turbo off the line is concerned.

And as far as the Mazdaspeed being new, so is the Spec V that they have tested. Many members of my forum are experiencing faster times after 6,000 to 8,000 miles due to break in too! Again, not taking anything away from the Mazdaspeed, I just think we should compare apples to apples...;)

[MP3skaterNC]

Originally posted by APEXistud
Hey, I slide through corners all the time in my MP3 :p

and right into curbs! hehe sorry apexi i had to do it :)

[APEXistud]

Originally posted by MP3skaterNC


and right into curbs! hehe sorry apexi i had to do it :)

Ouch.....:( That was a cheap shot(nuts) (sad2) I learned my lesson there though, I've gotten better a sliding

[Dexter]

im pissed off! everyone keeps saying OMG TEH LEETS NEON SRT4 OMG IT PWNS THE MAZDASPEED CUZ ITS FASTER 0-60. big shit :rolleyes: i mean, i know im posting this as a mazda board, so ill probably have your support, but everyone on this other board i post at is like "mazda just threw a turbo on there without doing anything else" and im like HUH LSD? what? better handling?...ok im sorry its not a fucking dodge neon with 2049343093 lbs of torque, ok? and they are all saying that the mazda is at max tuning because of whole "6.9psi so they wouldnt have to forge the internals". arent you people with mp3s and begi kits and what not running 7-8 PSI? and they keep saying OMG TEH TORQUE STEER...wtf!? and then they are ripping on our torque stats "mazda's honda-like 160lbs/ft of torque"

FINE hate the protege, fuck dodge, at least im sure ill be getting a nice msp.

<end rant>

[JasonH]

The bullshit stops when the green flag drops.

We'll just have to wait and see who owns who.

[colin949]

no neon will beat me in my mazdaspeed

[slug420]

( Hi. )
:rolleyes:

[Kooldino]

What does the Neon get in 0-60 and the 1/4?

[enry]

I'm sorry if I urk anyone here but a neon to me is like vw beetle, like the pt cruiser, like the ass-tek. It is not a serious looking car. If these cars sold for 500$, I would buy them as toys.
I mean.. it looks like something from a cheap science fiction movie. No matter how many body kids mods skirts new front grill spoiler you add, I will always think of the x files and alien abductions...

http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/enry/srt4.jpg

On a less subjective side, my sister drives a Neon... 1995. And I think the only reason the thing is still running I think is because it only has 50,000km on it. The other recent american car we had was a taurus. That thing had 60,000km and was the biggest lemon ever. I had to replace the gear / shaft going from the distr. cap into the engine TWICE in 30,000km because the gear on the shaft was made of a weaker metal than that of the shaft. Bad design. Terrible service. Now they haev a civic... so far so good. And as for the mp3, every issue I've had with the car was related to my driving like an idiot.. not the car's design.

So I'm sorry.. if a car is dodge/chrylser/ford I'm afraid it's off my list--despite ford's ownership of mazda.

[JasonH]

Heh. I knew I recognized it from somewhere...

Take one cab from The Fifth Element...
http://www.ozcraft.com/scifidu/fifth_el/cab.jpg

...add one cab from Judge Dredd...
http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/Verschiedenes/Judge_dread_3.jpg

And you end up with one of these!
http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/enry/srt4.jpg

[tritonheat1]

The Neon SR-T Vs. Mazdaspeed Protege is not even a comparison in looks, Style, Ride, handling, and Reliability. but the performance is a different subject. But mazda wins overallexcept kinda of the performance;)

take a look

2003 Dodge Neon SR-T
Supercharged,
208Hp@
220lb-fts@

0-60mph in just barely 6.0sec as claimed, and i think that's Protoytype not sure.

2003 Mazdaspeed Protege
Turbocharged
170Hp@
160lb-fts@

0-60mph tested Independent stats returned 6.5-6.8sec and quarter mile times at 14.9@93.18mph.- 15.3@93mph


208
-170
=38 more horses Neon has advantage over the MSP

220
-160
=60 lb-fts more torque than the MSP and take a look at the #'s


Neon 0-60....6.0sec
MSP 0-60....6.5-6.8sec

All that hp and torque and this is the numbers that give the SR-T over the MSP that's pretty damm Shi**y for the SR-T and if you take a look at the Civic Si Vs. Protege MP3

Civic SI
160HP VTEC
111lb-fts

Protege MP3
140hp
142lb-fts

Civic Si 0-60mph in 7.2sec
Protege Mp3 0-60mph....8.3sec that gives the Si a 1.1 sec faster to 60mph over the MP3 and the SRT neon only gets a .5-.8sec faster to 60 over the MSP plus the Civic Si only has 20more horses than the MP3 and -31 lb-fts than the MP3. So i say that the MSP has a chance against the Neon SRT in performance wise, but overall the MSP wins hands Down(boobs)


Dodge Neon SRT(piss)
Mazdaspeed Protege(drinks)

[tritonheat1]

Plus here's the Neon's tech data and the Civic Si's tech data

http://www.motortrend.com/april00/neonsrt/neonsrt_f.html
http;//www.motortrend.com/april99/civic/civic_f.html

[tritonheat1]

oops here ya go:


http://www.motortrend.com/april00/neonsrt/neonsrt_f.html
http://www.motortrend.com/april99/civic/civic_f.html

[Gro Harlem]

Uhh..yeah ok......no comparison in performance? why don't we go by WHEEL HORSEPOWER AND TORQUE numbers bro.

Mazda could have gotten away with advertising the MSP as having 180, 190 MAYBE even 200hp at the crank. SCC dynoed it at 152whp, with Mazda advertising it as having 170 hp thats a VERY small drivetrain loss. I don't know what the neon dynos' at, but you could easily match each cars HP figures with this thing called a BOOST CONTROLLER ;)

And I'm going to wait until i sum up the comparison as being "neon wins on performance side". How does it handle? I highly doubt its as good as the MSP which is stated to have better handling than a TYPE R!!!!!!! I'm sure chrysler has figured out a way to get the handling better than that :rolleyes:

besides, why are the "HP" and "torque" numbers so important? i'd rather have handling and reliability over the smallish power advantage of the NEON :cool:

[APEXistud]

Can we not have this SRT-4 VS. MSP discussion until the SRT-4 is actually reviewed by some enthusiast magazines. Or even better, until it is released. It's rediculous to speculate since it's a brand new platform. All-wheel drive and all :rolleyes: I'm just getting a little tired of people debating this topic, but then again, this is what the message boards are for.

[LinuxRacr]

The SR-T uses a Supercharger also that limits any future performance enhancements. The turbo is far more tunable, and easier to do so.

[Dexter]

Originally posted by APEXistud
Can we not have this SRT-4 VS. MSP discussion until the SRT-4 is actually reviewed by some enthusiast magazines. Or even better, until it is released. It's rediculous to speculate since it's a brand new platform. All-wheel drive and all :rolleyes: I'm just getting a little tired of people debating this topic, but then again, this is what the message boards are for.

well first, i wasnt trying to start a discussion really, i was just ranting about the bunch of domestic loving assholes at the other board.

and second, where does all-wheel drive come into play? they are both FWD cars, to my knowledge.

[buster]

OK, just to start...I like the MP3 and the P5 and the coming MSP. Nice cars!
To clear up a few things though.....got to Dodge's website and click on the SRT4 flash site at the bottom, then check ALL the specs for yourself.
215hp
245ft/lbs
45more hp and way more torque than the MSP, as well Mopar is offering three power upgrades, 25hp, 50hp, and 75hp. The car will have beefy equal length driveshafts and a rumoured LSD is in the works too.
Most of you do not seem aware of the Neon's history of kicking ass at autoX events for 7 yrs now. In recent car mag reviews the Neon R/T was only a hair off the MP3 in slalom duties and the R/T braked shorter too. One reviewer said, "this car does more with less in the tire department, narrowest tires of the group and pretty much a match for the MP3".
You can quote all you want about the 1st gen reliability record for Neons but the 2nd gen (00-03) are leaps and bounds better. JD Power initial quality reports rates it higher than Sentra, Protege, Golf, etc. Long term test of the R/T and the P/Tcruiser (neon chassis) give them great reliability reports and low maintenece costs.
I just want to straighten things out on here, not start shit. I don't care if people hack the looks, matter of opinion if you ask me:) If you can turn the boost up easily on the MSP, the two cars will be a great match up. In Canada, I was quoted 28-29k for the MSP and 27k for the SRT4...:eek: Although it seems on here some guys are saying they are gonna pay 26k for the MSP? That sounds a bit more reasonable to me.
BTW, this is what I drive:)

[LinuxRacr]

Ok, In one of the pictures in Motortrend it shows Supercharged in the engine bay, but on the site it shows that it is turbocharged, and it has 215 hp, and 245 FT/LB!!!
(omg)

[20ESGUY]

To be honest I wouldn't even think of owning a neon. Yeah, its got more HP and torque than us, but think of it this way, our handling is far supeiror, looks are better, there's not 2 million of them on the road, and the build quality is like comparing a battleship to a zodiac boat. Besides the fact i think that dodges site still lists the preliminary HP #s I think the production version is quoted at around 208 HP. Any time you see one of those SRT's just tell em what MOPAR really stands for

M-move
o-over
p-pinto
a-approaching
r-rapidly

or my other favorite

m-mostly
o-old
p-parts
a-and
r-rust

[Prophet]

First off, that Neon SRT was a one off. The Neon SRT-4 that is coming out next year is FWD Turbo, not S/C. Otherwise the stats are the same. Nothing else has been said about the SRT-4 other than HP ratings. Don't try to compare something that has been reviewed and will hit the street next month to something that is planned.....things change.....

-Jeremy-

[AustinG]

Originally posted by tritonheat1
Plus here's the Neon's tech data and the Civic Si's tech data

http://www.motortrend.com/april00/neonsrt/neonsrt_f.html
http;//www.motortrend.com/april99/civic/civic_f.html



That yellow srt is ugly, but..... that black srt damn, that's no to bad

[blynzoo]

Originally posted by buster
Most of you do not seem aware of the Neon's history of kicking ass at autoX events for 7 yrs now. In recent car mag reviews the Neon R/T was only a hair off the MP3 in slalom duties and the R/T braked shorter too. One reviewer said, "this car does more with less in the tire department, narrowest tires of the group and pretty much a match for the MP3". That is totally true. We used to race formula cars at SCCA (Hello, Putnam Park!Hello Formula Ford 2000!), and I'd watch all the other classes when I had a chance. The neons were by far the biggest surprise. They handled showroom stock like a damn dream on the course. They ate corners and are a fun class to watch. Yes, I just said that neon R/T is a fun class to watch. They are quick and agile cars, and actually well suited for the mini-road courses that they raced on.
True, they'll last you about 50K, but until then they are actually a good cheap performance car.

That said, the MSP will kick its ass (Of course so will my P5 once I drop a F/I six cyl in there). The MP3 and MSP are auto-x monsters, along with their meaner older sibling, the miata. These cars are, as everyone here who auto-x's them knows, truly gorgeous cars to drive around those orange cones, and just as much fun for SCCA road.

[buster]

You guys are aware that there is 2 generations of the Neon right? The 2nd gen cars are holding up just fine, and well past 50k. Cars I beat at the last local autoX, 2nd gen Integra with 150lbs less weight and 3k in suspension, 01 Celica with suspension, intake, header, exhaust, 99 Impreza RS with too many mods too list. I have 1.5" lowering springs (same rate as stock) an intake, and Kuhmo's. I have been waiting to see an MP3 show, or maybe a trip to Vancouver is in order to autoX against one. I am very confident I can keep up;)
Both cars are gonna kick some ass in the segment, only problem is for 03 Dodge is only making 5000 and Mazda is making 1500. I think most of the Honda/Acura guys are kinda jealous, especially with no Type-R's showing for at least a year or two.

http://www.dodge.com/srt-4/index.html?tsrc=brand&tgrp=promo2&tname=srt4_home

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by buster
BTW, this is what I drive:)

Uh..is it just me or does that look chopped...

[Kooldino]

Also, a lot of you guys mentioned that we could "turn up the boost" on our MSPs, but you can do similar things by getting a smaller pulley on a SC.

[MSpeed]

Originally posted by blynzoo
The MP3 and MSP are auto-x monsters, along with their meaner older sibling, the miata. These cars are, as everyone here who auto-x's them knows, truly gorgeous cars to drive around those orange cones, and just as much fun for SCCA road.

you forgot about the sexy pissed off cousin... the rx7 :D

[blynzoo]

Originally posted by MSpeed


you forgot about the sexy pissed off cousin... the rx7 :D Lord, how could i forget!!!! My fav!
I was thinking...actually yeah, sexy pissed off cousin is good!

[MSpeed]

YEA! shame on you :p

[Boosted]

Originally posted by Kooldino


Uh..is it just me or does that look chopped...

How does that looked chopped?

[Boosted]

Originally posted by Kooldino
Also, a lot of you guys mentioned that we could "turn up the boost" on our MSPs, but you can do similar things by getting a smaller pulley on a SC.

it seems alot of you guys are misinformed about the neon...

1) the SRT-4 will be turbocharged
2) the Neon as a whole, as said already, is most DEFinitely a formidable autocrosser

Performance wise, i think the Neon is just the best deal you can get...PERFORMANCE WISE only though...

in terms of looks, build, quality and all that, that's a different story, which is pretty much why i want to get an MSP.

but if all you're really wanting is performance then i say the Neon is the way to go.

BTW, i'm not a Neon owner and i am not comparing the two being that neither car has even touched our asphalt. just stating the obvious from the confirmed specs.

[sleeper_]

Originally posted by tritonheat1
The Neon SR-T Vs. Mazdaspeed Protege is not even a comparison in looks, Style, Ride, handling, and Reliability. but the performance is a different subject. But mazda wins overallexcept kinda of the performance;)

take a look

2003 Dodge Neon SR-T
Supercharged,
208Hp@
220lb-fts@

0-60mph in just barely 6.0sec as claimed, and i think that's Protoytype not sure.

2003 Mazdaspeed Protege
Turbocharged
170Hp@
160lb-fts@

0-60mph tested Independent stats returned 6.5-6.8sec and quarter mile times at 14.9@93.18mph.- 15.3@93mph


208
-170
=38 more horses Neon has advantage over the MSP

220
-160
=60 lb-fts more torque than the MSP and take a look at the #'s


Neon 0-60....6.0sec
MSP 0-60....6.5-6.8sec

All that hp and torque and this is the numbers that give the SR-T over the MSP that's pretty damm Shi**y for the SR-T and if you take a look at the Civic Si Vs. Protege MP3

Civic SI
160HP VTEC
111lb-fts

Protege MP3
140hp
142lb-fts

Civic Si 0-60mph in 7.2sec
Protege Mp3 0-60mph....8.3sec that gives the Si a 1.1 sec faster to 60mph over the MP3 and the SRT neon only gets a .5-.8sec faster to 60 over the MSP plus the Civic Si only has 20more horses than the MP3 and -31 lb-fts than the MP3. So i say that the MSP has a chance against the Neon SRT in performance wise, but overall the MSP wins hands Down(boobs)


Dodge Neon SRT(piss)
Mazdaspeed Protege(drinks)

btw, time decreases are not directly proportional to the amount of hp (all else equal)

[odp]

Originally posted by Boosted


it seems alot of you guys are misinformed about the neon...

1) the SRT-4 will be turbocharged
2) the Neon as a whole, as said already, is most DEFinitely a formidable autocrosser

Performance wise, i think the Neon is just the best deal you can get...PERFORMANCE WISE only though...

in terms of looks, build, quality and all that, that's a different story, which is pretty much why i want to get an MSP.

but if all you're really wanting is performance then i say the Neon is the way to go.

BTW, i'm not a Neon owner and i am not comparing the two being that neither car has even touched our asphalt. just stating the obvious from the confirmed specs.

As vapourware goes, say what you will. Come back when they actually get released.

[buster]

I know there is some resistance but the current R/T is easlily on par with the MP3 or P5 in build and quality! No the photo isn't chopped, and check out the www.victoriamotorsports.ca site and you will see more pics and my results.

I know we are kinda mag racing here as neither car has been released yet, but the chassis are the same as current cars and knowing what kind of gains can be made with the hp ratings we can have a good idea still....

[Dexter]

*covers ears*
LA LA LA LA LA
i cant hear you dodge owners...
LA LA LA LA LA

[buster]

:D

[rsx]

You know I love the Protege, but the new SRT4 numbers are out and it is sick. Remeber the car is less than 20K USD

Sport Compact has it at:

SCC:
14.2 @ 99.6 mph
0-60 in 5.8 sec
braking 60-0 119 ft
skidpad .85g
slalom speed 69.0 mph

Look at the DYNO, this is at the wheels:

http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/rsx/magazinesrt3.jpg

[MP3skaterNC]

yea its fast, but we can always use the "ITS STILL A NEON!!!!!!1!!!!!!1!!!!" excuse.

[mili727]

a DOMESTIC mazdaspeed killer, i wont let it happen

[Proto-JB]

Yeah, that is a kickass performance car for the price, no doubt about that. If I was going to keep a car for 2 years, I would probably lust over the SRT4. Alas, I want something to last a little longer and I just don't trust Dodge. If you wanna go fast w/ little cash, seems like a good car.

[slug420]

wow....that dyno is nuts......

[slug420]

jesus......thats fast as ballz.....i just been starin at it for like 10 minutes

[Dexter]

i think its ugly though

[1sty]

It might not be to atractive to some, although i like alot more then the SVT focus and the civic SI, if it can sell then it will up the anti in the sub $20K market for perfomance cars and we may see the next generation protege/3 with an 8 PSI turbo. Not to mention eveyone else will have to like wise come up with more powerful compacts to compete. Unfortunitly I don't think we'll see a big change until someone does a full production runs on one of these types of cars.

[Antoine]

Good points 1st MP3 in NH...

Diss it all you want...it looks to be a great bargin and might prove to be one hell of a sport compact...I would choose it any day over the si or svt...but the overall winner for me is the MSP. ;)

[Dexter]

hey, the other thing dodge has going for this car is that it will ACTUALLY BE RELEASED AND BE AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE.
*cough*
:p

[TedManEight]

hey but did you see that slalom???? HAHA! Isn't the MSP like in the high 80's or low 90's? Well, all I can say is good luck not tipping over in that car! Its like putting 200+ HP in an old BUG! LOL! I think it's all about the:

(mspo) (hump)

[Sir Nuke]

Originally posted by TedManEight
Its like putting 200+ HP in an old BUG! LOL! I think it's all about the:
(mspo) (hump)

hey hey hey....there is NOTHING wrong with the OLD bugs....I have a soft spot for them.... (stash)

Antoine....you are right....oh so right....I may take one of the dodges over the SVT or the HonDuh Si....but never over a Protege....even not over the standard one.....they just don't look as good as the mazda.

[MI MSP]

It may be fast but it is still a Chrysler... I work for Ford so am partial to the entire Ford family of brands :)

BTW - MSP ran the slalom at around 75 mph which was faster than the teg type R (kinda the top of the mountain which everyone tries to achieve and the MSP broke).

[1sty]

Actualy car and drivers slalom numbers showed the neon bettering the MSP.

[Dexter]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
Actualy car and drivers slalom numbers showed the neon bettering the MSP.

:eek: :wtf:


:(

[1sty]

I believe the neon got a .9 on the skid pad and the Mazda speed an .88

I'll confirm it later.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
Actualy car and drivers slalom numbers showed the neon bettering the MSP.

I was gonna say that...

[JasonH]

Car & Driver doesn't even do a slalom test. Lateral acceleration numbers are not the same as slalom speeds. What was the slalom speed from SCC? Can you scan the whole article? What did they say about it? Did it knock the Mazdaspeed Protege off the top of the hill?;)

[1sty]

Originally posted by JasonH
Car & Driver doesn't even do a slalom test. Lateral acceleration numbers are not the same as slalom speeds. What was the slalom speed from SCC? Can you scan the whole article? What did they say about it? Did it knock the Mazdaspeed Protege off the top of the hill?;)

That will totaly depend on if SCC will actauly use the MSP as the bench mark or not. Over a year ago they said the MP3 beat the type R Integra in handling yet when the MSP was tested they once again said that it beat the best handler they've tested being the Type R again. If they had half a memory the artical would have said the MSP beat the MP3 for the best handling fwd car.

I personaly think they have given the handling award away alot and always retain the type R as the champ for future comparisions to keep the Honda Rice readers happy.

[BigBlue]

Altho given a choice I'd personally take the MSP too(I prefer the looks, build quality, sound system etc), I have to say that even if it is "just" a Neon, it's a damn impressive one that ups the ante.

Compared to just a short few years ago, the entire sport compact market is very exciting right now with so many tuned cars coming out from the different car companies, it can only mean increased competition amongst them which leads to better cars for all of us. :)

[slug420]

so ugly, so cheap, so poor quality, UGH!
I looked at that dyno and went to the dodge site to see if there was any possible way that when i saw someone driving one of these on the road i wouldnt say "what a POS"...........no beans. The ass end looks like its 9 inches off the ground, hideous IMO.......interior is plain jane...........typical american car, slam a ton of hp into it and sell it for 20 bucks

MSP = attention to detail

[mili727]

Is the neon turbo? that 1/4 is amazing for that car

[sleeper_]

72.0 mph through the slalom for the MSP according to SCC

[1sty]

I was wrong about the neon SRT beating the MSP by car and drivers stats in handling.

[rsx]

Yup, it's a TURBO if you didn't know

[dmitrik4]

don't you get it? NO CAR is better than the MS-P. it's the fastest, best handling, best-screwed together vehicle ever made. duh!;)

[APEXistud]

Originally posted by dmitrik4
don't you get it? NO CAR is better than the MS-P. it's the fastest, best handling, best-screwed together vehicle ever made. duh!;)

God I hope that was a joke.:rolleyes: :D

[PRO 5]

I like protege's as much as the next guy but I hate to say it, I hope you don't dislike the look of the rearend of the neon too much because 99.9% of us will be looking at it if you ever ran into a race with one! I would have to bring my A game if I wanted to take on one of these bad boys. And even then I think I would get my ass handed to me. Don't flame me on this one guys but some times the truth hurts!!

Dave

[dimic]

How's that important at all? Whoever has faster vehicle will be faster. So what? I ride Yamaha FZ-1, and you'd have to bring one hell of a Ferrari to have any chance against me. So what? I ride or drive for my pleasure, not to embarass other drivers.

I like MSP, 'cause it seems it's gonna have awesome handling, and be balanced package, all <100K$ cars are underpowered anyway...

[slug420]

Originally posted by PRO 5
I like protege's as much as the next guy but I hate to say it, I hope you don't dislike the look of the rearend of the neon too much because 99.9% of us will be looking at it if you ever ran into a race with one! I would have to bring my A game if I wanted to take on one of these bad boys. And even then I think I would get my ass handed to me. Don't flame me on this one guys but some times the truth hurts!!

Dave

a couple things come to mind....first of all, yea i do dislike the rear end of the neon. quite a bit actually. in fact, i may get sick to my stomach if i ever have to follow one in traffic....

and as for racing one? HAH......i dont care WHAT kind of car im driving, i wouldnt race a neon. Its not about winning or losing, its a matter of respect, and i have none for neons. I was thinking in fact, of making a sign that said ( Hi. ) so i could hold it up at any SRT-4 who wants to race my MSP.......just so they know exactly how cool i think their car is..

[saided18]

Why are all the RSX onwers on this board so intressed in proving that there is some car in the world that is faster??? You guys are hating on the MSP and you should stop it. I knew about that car a while ago. It still the fact that the MSP is the best all around Sport compact car for the money. end of story.

[ZoeXlow2]

Originally posted by slug420
so ugly, so cheap, so poor quality, UGH!
I looked at that dyno and went to the dodge site to see if there was any possible way that when i saw someone driving one of these on the road i wouldnt say "what a POS"...........no beans. The ass end looks like its 9 inches off the ground, hideous IMO.......interior is plain jane...........typical american car, slam a ton of hp into it and sell it for 20 bucks

MSP = attention to detail
Hi all,
Although I am a new 'poster', I have been coming to this forum for quite a few months now. I drive a 2000 Ford Escort Zx2 S/R (go ahead and make your jokes) :rolleyes: , and my ex-girlfriend has a 2001 Protege ES.
As far as the above comments go (by the way slug420, I am not trying to flame you, infact I always get a kick out of your posts {telling unscrupulous salesmen where they can go, sharing your pain about how how long you have to wait for your MSP to come out etc.}) a couple of things that struck me as odd with the Pro compared to my Scort was that:
1)Power lock button is only on the driver side and not on passenger side (I have never seen this before)
2)No variable intermittent winshield wiper speed (only three speeds)
3)Cup holders are only deep enough to support the tiniest beverage size as anything larger will probably tip over in spirited driving (by the way what is the best stain remover you guys know of)
4)Can you say rattle? Are there "Cracker Jack" type surprises hidden throughout the body panels and dash of the Protege?
5)Why is every scheduled maintenance considerably more expensive with the Protege, than with my Zx2? $190.00 for the 24k inspection:wtf: ; Tire rotation $20:wtf:
6)Although this one isn't that big, how come there is no trunk release on the keyless entry?

Although the above points are not catastrophic and the Protege is still a wonderful car (and at the time we chose it, it was the best value for the money), these are points that do not really show that the Protege hence MSP = attention to detail.

[ARD MP5]

THE LOOKS AND LOOKS AND LOOKS.

That's all I have to say. A couple of mods and the MSP should do well. But it all comes down to the whole package. I'm sure the SRT has great potential. I'm interested in finding out about the motor's internals and its limits.

Rishie

[ZoeXlow2]

By the way, did you guys know that here in Canada, it looks like the Neon name will no longer be used. Instead, it will be the Dodge SX.

[PRO 5]

I knew that people were going to take what I stated out of contest. I know that the protege is worlds apart better looking then the neon and can out handle a neon but all I am saying is that we should not dis a car on looks alone. We talk about respect, it is a two way street. I give much props to all of the protege's out there but I also give much props to all the other "BANG FOR YOU BUCK" cars out there too! That is all I was saying. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers but just stating my opinion as much as anyone else on this board. Peace!

Dave

[jhatfi]

I dunno what you guys are talking about. I personally think that the SRT-4 is pretty decent looking. It needs to get that ass end lowered, but overall is a aggressive looking car that I would not mind owning at all.

Overall I think that the MS Protege is the better machine, just as the regular protege sedan is better than the regular neon, but I am sure that Dodge has put some work into the SRT4 to make it a fun and fast car worthy of it's sub-$20k price.

And for the record, my fiance ownes a 00' neon. She keeps stealing my 02' Protege ES all the time because it is so much more "fun to drive", but I disagree with the Dodge reliability issues though. In the late 80's and early 90's I would not touch a Dodge...or any other american car for that matter. Still do not like most any American made car actually as most are ugly, soft, questionable and drive like boats. But my fiance's neon has been a great car for the $11k we bought it for and my 00' Dodge Dakota SLT 4x4 ran perfect before I traded it in on my Protege (financial reasons). I loved that truck.

Don't hate. Appreciate the fact that the hp bar has been raised. It will mean more fun and better cars down the road!

[Antoine]

Good point’s jhatfi

Yeah...look at the big picture...the bar is being raised...save your hard earned dough...and choose wisely (aka the MSP!...hehe).

Even if I don't like a particular sport compact...if it proves to be a great competitor then I can respect that.

[1FastMP3]

That car is fast but damnit it's no Protege. O sure it might beat a non asperated MP3 but not an MP3 with Spoolin's turbo on. O yeah by the way did I mention that our car is limited edition. Very few other cars cars are like that

[saided18]

Look. it's simple. you always must give props when they are deserved. Like the Neon is one fast car for cheap money (i think around $15,000). And also not to mention that dodge owns mopor which makes aftermarket parts for the dodg cars. And from what i heard from dodge freaks is that they already have a upgrades to the engine that have it up around 240 hp at the crank. thats awsome. but after giving the car it's props you add that you really think the car is ugly and wouldn't buy it at all.

thats how it should be done. give props were it's due but also add that it's not you type of car.

[PRO 5]

Coulden't have said it better myself!!!

Dave

[rsx]

saided18

Don't get mad because I shared some info about the competition that's out there. I am sure most people are interested in knowing what the SRT4 brings to the table. If sharing info about the neon is hating the Protege, then you are confused.

Anyways, from your last post, it seems you get the point now.

[saided18]

No RSX i always have gotten the point. it's just i see that every one with an RSX posted messages like "Mazdaspeed killer" or "RSX-S better then MSP" etc. it just seems that people with RSXs have hostility toward the MP3 and MPS and try to find other cars that are faster then the two car. Trying to rub it in our faces or something like that.

I steered away from the WRX cuz it's ugly and you need to do body work and stuff to make it look good. and the same thing can be said about that neon. it's Fing ugly as hell and has OK handling.

I don't see any of you RSX guys praising the MP3 or MPS. All i see is you guys trying to find cars that are faster then it.

that just a observation i have made. so i don't know.

[saided18]

By the way. for RSX. are you sure it's 223 Wheel HP and not 223 crank HP. B/c like i said. i have heard from many sources that it would be pumping about 230HP at the crank not the wheels. could you just double check to make sure b/c 223 at the wheels is alot. and like i said my friend has 250 at the wheels and spins 1, 2, and part of 3 gear. and do quick math. 223 wheel hp + 20 loss from drive train and accessories would put it 270HP at the crank. yet again that alot.

[1sty]

I like the looks of the new neon.
Also I trust its build a hell of alot more then the focus and it can't have a tranny much worse then ours.

I'm not buying it but glad its out there and hope alot of people enjoy it.

[saided18]

Originally posted by ZoeXlow2

Hi all,
Although I am a new 'poster', I have been coming to this forum for quite a few months now. I drive a 2000 Ford Escort Zx2 S/R (go ahead and make your jokes) :rolleyes: , and my ex-girlfriend has a 2001 Protege ES.
As far as the above comments go (by the way slug420, I am not trying to flame you, infact I always get a kick out of your posts {telling unscrupulous salesmen where they can go, sharing your pain about how how long you have to wait for your MSP to come out etc.}) a couple of things that struck me as odd with the Pro compared to my Scort was that:
1)Power lock button is only on the driver side and not on passenger side (I have never seen this before)
2)No variable intermittent winshield wiper speed (only three speeds)
3)Cup holders are only deep enough to support the tiniest beverage size as anything larger will probably tip over in spirited driving (by the way what is the best stain remover you guys know of)
4)Can you say rattle? Are there "Cracker Jack" type surprises hidden throughout the body panels and dash of the Protege?
5)Why is every scheduled maintenance considerably more expensive with the Protege, than with my Zx2? $190.00 for the 24k inspection:wtf: ; Tire rotation $20:wtf:
6)Although this one isn't that big, how come there is no trunk release on the keyless entry?

Although the above points are not catastrophic and the Protege is still a wonderful car (and at the time we chose it, it was the best value for the money), these are points that do not really show that the Protege hence MSP = attention to detail.



i don't think most people our age (17-24) really care about power locks being only on the drive side. Nor i don't think we really give two s*hts about the variable intermittent winshield wiper speed.
the cup holders you might have a point but yet again i don't think i not buy a car due to poor cup holders design.

also you are comparing a Protege ES to a Escort ZX2 S/R. Supposely that is the "best" escort you can buy. how about you compare you ZX2 to my MP3. then we can see who's car is better.

[ZoeXlow2]

Originally posted by saided18





also you are comparing a Protege ES to a Escort ZX2 S/R. Supposely that is the "best" escort you can buy. how about you compare you ZX2 to my MP3. then we can see who's car is better.

Of the 6 Protege shortcomings I listed, my friend, I do not think the MP3 corrects any of them. So what difference would it make if you use your MP3 as a comparison instead of a non-MP3 Protege?

[rsx]

Check my previous posts if you want, but I have never bashed the Protege MP3 or MSP. In fact I even went out of my way to get those spy shots of the Orange MSP when it was in Montreal at the corporate office, so that everyone could have a look. Hell I think the new MSP is a wicked car, I have been pushing Enry really hard to get it, but it seems like he is leaning the other way.

Just because this is a Protege forum, doesn't mean that we have to worship the car every minute. We can take a couple of minutes to discuss other cars, and the new enrties into the sport compact scene. This is the hottest the scene has been in terms of factory performance in a long time. We should all enjoy it, and not worry about offending one another when somebody talks about the other cars in the same class.

Anyways, I will leave it at that :)


From what I remeber reading that was HP and torque at the wheels. It is a dyno plot, and most dynos are at the wheels. I doubt SCC went out of their way to estimate the drive train loss and correct the plots. However, I could be wrong. Can anyone confirm that ?

[saided18]

oh ok RSX. nah b/c my dodge people said the car would have less HP then was on the dyno chart you should. they said their was an upgrade availible from MOPOR that would get it up to about 240 at the crank. well i don't know. i guess we will see when the car comes out in production. I will remind you that the MP3 prototype had a K&N cone fillter and had a different header on it too! so i guees we will just have to wait and see.

RSX no hard feelings. (drinks)

[rsx]

No hard feelings at all

:)

[rsx]

A co-worker pointed out a good point about the dyno in SCC magaizne. Why is there a dip in the HP curve, and then a rise to peak HP. That is really weird. I have never seen such a thing in a dyno plot. Any ideas ?

[slug420]

not to take anything away from the srt-4. i mean i hate it. but it sounds like a solid fast package. the thing they tested was a big fat prototype, they havent even gone into production yet it sounded like.....so although i bet the numbers will be very close on the final prduct, some inexplicable or suprising results may be a result of it being a test model of sorts....

[MI MSP]

Dunno if this has been posted or not.. too lazy to look again..

Neon SRT - 69mph Slalom
MSP - 74mph

[rodslinger]

Originally posted by rsx
A co-worker pointed out a good point about the dyno in SCC magaizne. Why is there a dip in the HP curve, and then a rise to peak HP. That is really weird. I have never seen such a thing in a dyno plot. Any ideas ?

I can't remember the exact settings because mine has been 'tweaked' for so long. The reason may be from computer programming. The older turbo Dodge cars may have a factory boost setting of 7psi on the non-intercooled models or 10psi on the intercooled models. The computers would 'allow' a brief overboost of a few extra psi for a few seconds. That may be the same thing on the SRT-4. What you see is the short term overboost. The dip you see on the dyno may be where the boost is brought back down.

[sleeper_]

Originally posted by MI MSP
MSP - 74mph

it's 72.0mph according to SCC

[2Rusty]

Not the best looking thing but not bad, the interior and engine look like a major jump up in build quality compared to previous neons. I like the fact that they did a dual exhaust and refrained from putting clear tail lights on which looks to me like it was a consideration. Only thing I would have to change is the ride height... it begs to be dropped an inch or two.

I would buy it if I was in the market for a new car.

[iain]

i've driven enough neons in the past to know that it's the same crappy build quality i've come to expect from all american manufacturers. you could offer me a neon with 400hp for $10k and i still wouldn't drive it. they just don't feel solid.

[buster]

Lets just see what happens when they come out?!

[Daemos]

yes...fear the new neon, it scares the shit out of me...yes...it's JUST a neon, but for my car I can say "It's Just a sentra" or for the MSP we can all say "It's just a protege" :rolleyes:

I think the MSP and the Spec are quite evenly matched...but the new neon...wow...umm it's just beyond it's just not taking the pocket rocket segment...it's here to fight the WRX...unlike the MSP and the Spec only being rice rockets...fighting the Civic Sir, Celica, Tib, and the RSX (I hope I'm not leaving any other cars) but for 1/4 mile in any of those above cars cept for the WRX and the New Neon, would purly be a drivers race...

Handling in ALL the cars above would be..1. MSP 2. Spec V 2. Neon (tied?) 3. Celica GTS 3. WRX (I've heard varing opinions) 4. Tib 4 (tied) RSX 5. Civic Sir (I personally think it handles like crap

All the above are from my personal experience...and from the experience from people I know who've driven all these cars.

[buster]

Are you on crack?? You obviously know nothing about the handling of the cars you speak of!! The handling of the Neon R/T and coming SRT4 are equal or better than the SpecV and only a hair off the MSP!!!!!!!! Check your facts or the SpecV board where I posted Grassroots Motorsports AutoX test of some of the cars you mentioned!

[Daemos]

Originally posted by buster
Are you on crack?? You obviously know nothing about the handling of the cars you speak of!! The handling of the Neon R/T and coming SRT4 are equal or better than the SpecV and only a hair off the MSP!!!!!!!! Check your facts or the SpecV board where I posted Grassroots Motorsports AutoX test of some of the cars you mentioned!

acctually I'm not on crack...the way it's designed it won't handle that well...well it won't feel all that secure because of the high stance.

But maybe it shouldn't deserve last place, I'll adjust it.

[Daemos]

Okay...I guess I'll re-do this.

For Speed it will probally go something like this (1/4) time

1. Wrx
2. Neon (maybe tied?)
3. GTi VR6
4. (3 way tie) RSX, MSP, Spec V, GTi 1.8T
5. SiR + SVT
6. Celica GTS
7. Tib

Handling.

1. MSP
2. Spec V + Neon
3. Celica GTS
4. (2 way tie) RSX and Tib and SVT
5. GTis
6. Sir

Looks.
1. Tib
2. Celica
3. (2 way tie) MSP and RSX
4. Spec V
5. GTi
6. WRX
7. SiR
8. Neon (it's a ugly ugly neon)

Sound System.
1. MSP
2. Spec V
3. Tib (only the V6 GT ones)
4. RSX Type S (the premium ones sound like shit)
5. Everything else...

But they all suck...but the Spec and the MSP both have Excellent sound systems for stock.

Luxury.
1. RSX (it has leather seats, and climate control..and it's an acura) GTi as well
2. Tib and Celica and Neon...they both can get leather
3. Spec V + WRX + SVT
4. MSP (where's the sunroof?)

Security.
1. GTi
2. Spec V (sorry if I'm biased, but it's the only one that I know that comes with the imobilizer key)
3. Everything else (stock alarms)

Build Quality :)
1. RSX + SiR (they're hondas, they'll never break down)
2. Celica GTS (It's a toyota, they're really close)
3. GTi
4. 2003 Spec Vs, MSP, and WRX
5. Tib (it's still a hyundai)
6. SVT Focus
7. Neon (it's still a domestic)

Price.
1. Spec V (it's the cheapest)
2. MSP + Neon (they're like so close they should be tied)
3. Tib GT + SVT Focus
4. RSX Type S + Celica GTS + WRX + GTi + Cooper (In canadian funds, fully loaded...they are like super close in price...maybe the WRX is slightly more expensive) The Cooper is a BMW...nuff said

Fun To Drive Factor (this one will be a toughy...)
1. MSP (?) + Spec V (Torque on demand :) = Fun :D )
2. Neon (? never drove one)
3. WRX (a lil too long of a turbo lag)
4. Tib GT
5. Celica GTS (it's not bad...I like the shifter, and the way it handles...but where's the torque) + GTi
6. SVT Focus...(?)
7. RSX Type S (no offence RSX, but WHERE IS THE TORQUE?!?! Quote from Acrura guy "Rev it up to 6000 rpm, listen to how loud it is, you know you can feel power now" me: "....*revs it up* so...where's the power feeling and torque" Acura dealer: "...." (I LOVE the shift knob though, it's sooooooo nice ^.^)
8. SiR (man the engine sounds like a tin can....acctually it is worse...it's just pathetic, and the shifter SUCKS)

Availibility.
1. SiR + WRX + RSX + GTS
2. Tib GT
3. SVT Focus
4. Spec V (they'res still like a 5 month wait for one here)
5. Neon (one year run)
6. MSP (2000 first one, then maybe 1000 more for 2003.5?)

Hmm I have NO idea where the mini cooper fits onto....since I haven't read one review or haevn't had the chance to drive one.
------------------

That was just my list....do I Think the new neon is scary...yes...so what if it's just a neon, it'll still blow you away.

P.S. Can anyone hook up a canadian with an RSX Type S shift knob, I swear it's like the BEST shift knob I've ever used, better than all the aftermarket ones I've used :)

[jroof]

I would tend to agree with most of your list with the exception of the 'Looks' catagory. I don't see how you can place the Tiburon and Celica over the MSP and RSX? I agree the Tib is a good looking car...for a Hyundai and the Celica is just awful. It is a subjective rating and I'd have to go with the following:
1. MSP
2. RSX
3. Tib
4. Spec V
5. WRX
5. Celica
6. Neon
7. SiR

[Daemos]

I forgot to add the SVT Focus...so I have edited my post to include it..oh yea the mini cooper, and the GTi (man...this Sport compact market is getting CRAZY)

[slug420]

why couldnt the tib be the new celica or something..........its soooo nice lookin, but its a hyundai so i wont consider one. I mean, they DID steal all the toyota lines and all.......might as well have let toyota make it.

[TedManEight]

I must agree to the tib being on top for looks as it has the best styling out of all these cars IMO. However, have you seen the interior??? LOL. I thought about getting one till I sat inside LOL!!! As for the rest i put the rsx and the celica abouve the MSP simply because it just looks more sporty being a coupe and all its hard to compare though. For a Compact Sedan MSP is top notch in looks! Better than the WRX by a land slide. Still IMO only though. You guys I am sure have your own opinions.

[Daemos]

Originally posted by TedManEight
I must agree to the tib being on top for looks as it has the best styling out of all these cars IMO. However, have you seen the interior??? LOL. I thought about getting one till I sat inside LOL!!! As for the rest i put the rsx and the celica abouve the MSP simply because it just looks more sporty being a coupe and all its hard to compare though. For a Compact Sedan MSP is top notch in looks! Better than the WRX by a land slide. Still IMO only though. You guys I am sure have your own opinions.

hehe yea the Tib's interior is wierd...I personly like the Celica's interior, RSX's has a nice one, that stuff they made the dash out of doesn't reflect the sun into your eyes, and I still love that shift knob of the Type S.

[tritonheat1]

0-60 and 1/4times.



.................................................. ..0-60......................1/4mile
Hyundai Tiburon GT-V6.................7.4sec................15.5sec
Toyota Celica GT-S.......................7.2sec................15.4 sec
Acura RSX-TypeS..........................6.7sec............. ...15.2sec
Ford Focus SVT.............................7.3sec............ ....15.6sec
Honda Civic SI..............................7.6sec............ .....15.9sec
Dodge Neon SRT-4.......................5.8sec.................14. 2sec
Subaru Impreza WRX...................5.6sec.................14.4s ec
Mazdaspeed Protege...................6.5sec.................1 4.9sec

I think that's about right.;)

[mp3moose]

I just want to know how they are running that neon with NO mufflers?! I hear she's loud as a beast....

[rodslinger]

Originally posted by mp3moose
I just want to know how they are running that neon with NO mufflers?! I hear she's loud as a beast....

The car has resonators instead. The turbo also muffles the exhaust quite well.

[talon4x4]

The SRT-4 intrigues me just because of this simple fact. MOPAR will be offering a 300hp kit for $3500 which DOESN'T void the factory warranty!!! Sorry the pics are kinda big!!

From the Dodge website.....
"The standard Dodge SRT-4 engine delivers the performance of aftermarket kits costing anywhere from $2,500 to $3,500, but as a production powerplant, it is covered by a full factory warranty. "

http://www.kennyskrib.com/matt/DSC00887.JPG
http://www.kennyskrib.com/matt/DSC00891.JPG

[MMMatHeart]

See my comments at the end of each category.

Originally posted by Daemos
For Speed it will probally go something like this (1/4) time

1. Wrx
2. Neon (maybe tied?)
3. GTi VR6
4. (3 way tie) RSX, MSP, Spec V, GTi 1.8T
5. SiR + SVT
6. Celica GTS
7. Tib

Better put the Cooper S at 3.

Handling.

1. MSP
2. Spec V + Neon
3. Celica GTS
4. (2 way tie) RSX and Tib and SVT
5. GTis
6. Sir

Cooper S along with the MSP (check out AJAC contest)

Looks.
1. Tib
2. Celica
3. (2 way tie) MSP and RSX
4. Spec V
5. GTi
6. WRX
7. SiR
8. Neon (it's a ugly ugly neon)

Cooper S at 2 (tied) - the interior alone is cocktail/bar talk for the evening.

Sound System.
1. MSP
2. Spec V
3. Tib (only the V6 GT ones)
4. RSX Type S (the premium ones sound like shit)
5. Everything else...

But they all suck...but the Spec and the MSP both have Excellent sound systems for stock.

Luxury.
1. RSX (it has leather seats, and climate control..and it's an acura) GTi as well
2. Tib and Celica and Neon...they both can get leather
3. Spec V + WRX + SVT
4. MSP (where's the sunroof?)

Cooper S at 2. SVT is the same as MSP-no sunroof. The Neon, I'm sorry is no higher than MSP. You can put in options, but they're cheap quality options except the seats.

Security.
1. GTi
2. Spec V (sorry if I'm biased, but it's the only one that I know that comes with the imobilizer key)
3. Everything else (stock alarms)

Build Quality :)
1. RSX + SiR (they're hondas, they'll never break down)
2. Celica GTS (It's a toyota, they're really close)
3. GTi
4. 2003 Spec Vs, MSP, and WRX
5. Tib (it's still a hyundai)
6. SVT Focus
7. Neon (it's still a domestic)

Subes are reknowned for their toughness (3 ). VWs aren't all that reliable...although feel/look real nice.

Price.
1. Spec V (it's the cheapest)
2. MSP + Neon (they're like so close they should be tied)
3. Tib GT + SVT Focus
4. RSX Type S + Celica GTS + WRX + GTi + Cooper (In canadian funds, fully loaded...they are like super close in price...maybe the WRX is slightly more expensive) The Cooper is a BMW...nuff said

Neon has no official Canadian price. However, RT is only $20K CAD. With the $3kUSD/$5KCAD price differential of the US, it could be around $25K!!!! It would be hard for them to justify a $7K jump. Note that the MSP is "only a $6k premium over the P5.

With comparable options, MSP, SVT, and GTI 1.8 are within $1k CAD. WRX and GTS are about $3k over Type S and Cooper S. Probably optioned comparably, the WRX, GTS, Type S and Cooper S are the same (around $33k)


Fun To Drive Factor (this one will be a toughy...)
1. MSP (?) + Spec V (Torque on demand :) = Fun :D )
2. Neon (? never drove one)
3. WRX (a lil too long of a turbo lag)
4. Tib GT
5. Celica GTS (it's not bad...I like the shifter, and the way it handles...but where's the torque) + GTi
6. SVT Focus...(?)
7. RSX Type S (no offence RSX, but WHERE IS THE TORQUE?!?! Quote from Acrura guy "Rev it up to 6000 rpm, listen to how loud it is, you know you can feel power now" me: "....*revs it up* so...where's the power feeling and torque" Acura dealer: "...." (I LOVE the shift knob though, it's sooooooo nice ^.^)
8. SiR (man the engine sounds like a tin can....acctually it is worse...it's just pathetic, and the shifter SUCKS)

Gotta put Cooper S up at 1. It's truly a go kart with less lag (supercharged) than the 1.8T

Availibility.
1. SiR + WRX + RSX + GTS
2. Tib GT
3. SVT Focus
4. Spec V (they'res still like a 5 month wait for one here)
5. Neon (one year run)
6. MSP (2000 first one, then maybe 1000 more for 2003.5?)

Cooper S are available in Toronto. Spec Vs were tought, but have seen several on several dealer lots for almost a month around Toronto. Neons expected Jan. SVTs have been advertised (like the SiR) in Edmonton, so they're probably not selling, and should be available.



And because I'm old and frugal, Resale
1. Honda/Acura/ Cooper S
2. WRX
3. MSP/Spec V (Sentras depreciate less, but MSP is "limited")
4. SVT
5. Neon/Tiburon

Only IMHO. That's $0.02 USD/$0.03CAD

[JasonH]

Originally posted by talon4x4
The SRT-4 intrigues me just because of this simple fact. MOPAR will be offering a 300hp kit for $3500 which DOESN'T void the factory warranty!!! Sorry the pics are kinda big!!

From the Dodge website.....
"The standard Dodge SRT-4 engine delivers the performance of aftermarket kits costing anywhere from $2,500 to $3,500, but as a production powerplant, it is covered by a full factory warranty. "

Uh, I believe you are mistaken.

Unless you find convincing evidence to the contrary, I believe and of the Mopar upgrade kits void the factory warranty. Your quote above means "This engine comes from the factory with a warranty but has the performance of a engine with $2500-$3500 worth of mods."

[prost]

Originally posted by talon4x4
The SRT-4 intrigues me just because of this simple fact. MOPAR will be offering a 300hp kit for $3500 which DOESN'T void the factory warranty!!! Sorry the pics are kinda big!!

From the Dodge website.....
"The standard Dodge SRT-4 engine delivers the performance of aftermarket kits costing anywhere from $2,500 to $3,500, but as a production powerplant, it is covered by a full factory warranty. "


Yeah I think you have misread that. It also says in very big letters that the 300 HP kit is NOT street legal. I can't see how that would still be covered under warranty. It says the one that comes with the SRT-4 from the factory is covered, not a turbo bolt on.

[Daemos]

Originally posted by tritonheat1
0-60 and 1/4times.



.................................................. ..0-60......................1/4mile
Hyundai Tiburon GT-V6.................7.4sec................15.5sec
Toyota Celica GT-S.......................7.2sec................15.4 sec
Acura RSX-TypeS..........................6.7sec............. ...15.2sec
Ford Focus SVT.............................7.3sec............ ....15.6sec
Honda Civic SI..............................7.6sec............ .....15.9sec
Dodge Neon SRT-4.......................5.8sec.................14. 2sec
Subaru Impreza WRX...................5.6sec.................14.4s ec
Mazdaspeed Protege...................6.5sec.................1 4.9sec

I think that's about right.;)

The times I was using to compare were ALL from Sport Compact Car. The 14.9 second 1/4 mile is only on the preproduciton car, but the one that SSC got, handled WAY better, and did the 1/4 mile in the mid 15s.

[PERRY323]

Men, youre out for the mazdaspeed numbers so let me doubt of the other one...
SCC numbers for the mazda speed protege is 7.1 for 0-60mph and 15.3 for the quarter mile... @90.1mph
I have the magazine in front of me,
i dont know where you took your number, but i wish it was real!
They said they tested and retested straight line speed and only managed to get those numbers, not bad but not amazing.

...........

[Daemos]

Originally posted by PERRY323
Men, youre out for the mazdaspeed numbers so let me doubt of the other one...
SCC numbers for the mazda speed protege is 7.1 for 0-60mph and 15.3 for the quarter mile... @90.1mph
I have the magazine in front of me,
i dont know where you took your number, but i wish it was real!
They said they tested and retested straight line speed and only managed to get those numbers, not bad but not amazing.

...........

I hope you're not talking about my numbers :) Cuz I have that same issue :)

15.3 I'm kinda iffy on this number...is it mid 15s or low 15s, it's just like in the middle there between the two :)

[tritonheat1]

Originally posted by PERRY323
Men, youre out for the mazdaspeed numbers so let me doubt of the other one...
SCC numbers for the mazda speed protege is 7.1 for 0-60mph and 15.3 for the quarter mile... @90.1mph
I have the magazine in front of me,
i dont know where you took your number, but i wish it was real!
They said they tested and retested straight line speed and only managed to get those numbers, not bad but not amazing.

...........


Hey PPL OPEN YOUR EYES AND READ OK........................Ok then.

www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0210_mazda/index.html


0-60mph 6.5sec
1/4mile...14.9sec@93.2mph scroll down and look with your eyes.;)

[gmagnan]

Handling

1. MSP
2. Spec V + Neon
3. Celica GTS
4. (2 way tie) RSX and Tib and SVT
5. GTis
6. Sir

I agree with pretty much everything else you said, but... The Celica GTS and Acura RSX-S are much better handlers than the spec V, since despite having LSD and meaty ass tires it has the worst rear suspension setup of the bunch, and a not so stiff chassis. I've seen comparaisons where even the very nose heavy and softly sprung GTI VR6 beats it in the slalom.

I should think it's more like:

MSP
Neon
Celica GTS, RSX-S, SVT
GTI 1.8T
SIR (crappy 15'' tires), Tib 2.0
GTI VR6, Spec V
Tib V6

[jonlisle20]

Yeah, I saw both the numbers. 14.9 and 15.3 I think it was. They are both correct.:confused: I think one was pre-production and the other was production. Either way one might have been done on a hot day in high elevation and the other a cool day at sea level. You never know. I always go with the slowest test so I don't break my ego the first time at the track.
As for me, I am a speed freak. The MP3 is very fun to drive but when it comes time to line up at the light I barely win. 16.0 in the 1/4 is not fast. Fun to drive = YES, looks good = Yes, limited production = DUH, Great handling = Another DUH, etc... but NOT fast. Before you guys flame on me this is just MY opinion. No one elses. I like to win races in a semi-straight line. But hey, that's just me. A whole lot of people don't give a crap about that and that is probably one reason they bought this car. I thought I could hook up this car (turbo) and get crazy power levels like my friend with the Supercharged Civic (400+whp!) without destroying the transmition, my patiences, and my wallet. Apparently I was wrong. Does this make the car any less special or fun to own.......NO! Do I love this car......HELL YEAH! In the end it is just not going to be what I AM looking for. (Which sucks:()
What I'm saying is......:rolleyes: ....some of you don't care that you will be getting beat by a Neon (light to light, highway). & I can see what you mean to a certain extent. Hey, DO YOU. But for ME, a straight line, highway racer, this is not acceptable. No Stock Neon is going to DESTROY me in a race.:'(
All of the mags that reviewed the Neon so far has only had the pre-production car I believe. They say that those crazy dynos and relatively loud exhaust will make it to production with VERY MINOR changes. (within a few percent of the pre-production one!) Either way that will kick my ass. Getting destroyed by a STOCK Neon is just the last straw for me. I mean the thing doesn't even have a limited slip differential!!!!!!!!
Beginning of Summer I will have my 6spd Supra TT and they will go down hard! Until then I think I will be making a lot of right turns at traffic lights;) and enjoy the hell out of this fine car. All you skilled autoXers out there take one down for me if you get the chance!
Sorry for the long pst guys. I just give credit where credit is due. Winning is winning even if you are driving a Neon ;) heh heh heh

[gmagnan]

You just have to face the fact that there will always be faster cars out there than yours. Doesn't make your car any worse.

If your happy with the performance of your car when you blast down a quiet road by yourself, and have fun doing it, great. That should be all that matters.

Lets face it, straight line performance does not a great car make. Anyone with basic tools, an engine lift and 2000$ can dump a small block running nitrous in a chevette and humiliate a Porshe 911 turbo at a red light or at the drag strip. Does that mean everyone that has an exotic should stop enjoying their cars in fear that a rust bucket rolls up next to them at a red light?!

I'm not comparing the SRT4 to a chevette or anything... Enjoy your car for what it is, not for who it makes you.

[jonlisle20]

Um what are you talking about? "Enjoy your car for what it is, not for who it makes you." If you read my post you wouldn't think that I'm some insecure kid who needs their car to be fast so I can feel good about myself. :rolleyes:
Yes there will always be someone faster. But with the MP3 90% of everyone that will race me is faster. For me that is not enjoyable. I'm not saying that everyone should feel like this.......because they don't! This is just MY opinion. I like fast cars. So sue me............or just imply that I'm insecure.:rolleyes: ;)

[Daemos]

Originally posted by gmagnan


I agree with pretty much everything else you said, but... The Celica GTS and Acura RSX-S are much better handlers than the spec V, since despite having LSD and meaty ass tires it has the worst rear suspension setup of the bunch, and a not so stiff chassis. I've seen comparaisons where even the very nose heavy and softly sprung GTI VR6 beats it in the slalom.

I should think it's more like:

MSP
Neon
Celica GTS, RSX-S, SVT
GTI 1.8T
SIR (crappy 15'' tires), Tib 2.0
GTI VR6, Spec V
Tib V6

acctually according to SCC the Spec V had the FASTEST times in the slalom for the 2002 8 Great Rides :)

And Trust me, I've out handled enough RSX type S's and Celicas to know :) I've TEST driven all of the above cars as well, cept for the neon and MSP for obvious reasons.

Yes the Rear Suspension in the Spec V sucks, but it still handles well. The 2002 was the first year car, every minor fix has been fixed for 2003, the 2003s, handle slightly better from when I drove the two.

[gmagnan]

Originally posted by jonlisle20
Um what are you talking about? "Enjoy your car for what it is, not for who it makes you." If you read my post you wouldn't think that I'm some insecure kid who needs their car to be fast so I can feel good about myself. :rolleyes:

Yes there will always be someone faster. But with the MP3 90% of everyone that will race me is faster. For me that is not enjoyable. I'm not saying that everyone should feel like this.......because they don't! This is just MY opinion. I like fast cars. So sue me............or just imply that I'm insecure.:rolleyes: ;)

I wasn't really talking about you in particular... I just don't understand the people who go on & on about how they love their car yet would want to change simply because a faster Neon just came out... Not to get the Neon, just not to have to suffer the 'humiliation' of being beaten by a Neon. :confused:

I must've seen this in at least a dozen threads by now on various forums...

I used to have a 52hp Diesel Golf, and I would get beaten at a red light by hybrid/electric post office trucks and laugh it off! Maybe I'm just weird.

... Actually I'm full of shit I changed cars soon after that happened :D I can undertstand if you just want to change for a faster car and the SRT4 is just one of the many reasons motivating you... Good luck with your next car then... But untill then enjoy your Mp3 you lucky fu.... :D

[rsx]

Please people ! Do not buy in to the magazine number games ! There is so much variance in the numbers for 0-60mph and 1/4 mile times from one source to another. Why ? because test conditions are always different!

1) Climate
2) Elevation
3) Track Preparation
4) Driver : Aggressive ? knows where the performance of the car lies ? knows the best launch ?
5) Measuring techniques
6) etc ...

The point is do not quote the fastest time you see in a magazine and automatically associate it as the true performance of a car. The best estimate in my opinion is throw out the fastest and slowest times you see, and average the rest.

What the magaiznes say don't mean anything when you are racing at the track or on the street

[buster]

Ahhh, I already gave examples of the quality and reliability of 2nd gen Neons, and yes they are rated higher than Sentra, Golf and Spec by JD power, and just wait till they have up to 02 in Consumer reports.
Sorry about the crack thing BTW, just got a bit worked up cause there are so many misinformed out there.
If things go sideways with the deal I am getting with the SRT4, then I will have a 03.5 MSP!
Oh, and figure out the resale and the financing rate over 5yrs! See who comes away with more in their pocket then?!

[WhatTurbo?]

Ok, i will be buying this car in March.. Because i am getting a signing bonus for going into the air force...
but i have a honda crx right now with some mods....
what i was wondering was what kinda mods can i do and not void warranty if you guys know??
i wanna do
1. BOV
2. Electronic Boost controller and timer
and pretty much leave it stock.
i might want
3" piping from the turbo back what do you guys think??

[Protege01MP3]

I think it sounds like a jim dandy plan... not sure bout the warranty issues... be careful with mazda.. the try their hardest not to cover warranty issues, even with the car completely stock the way you bought it... they are greedy bastards like that... so watch out that BOV might "be the cause of the squeeking in the back suspension" lol... i wouldn't doubt it if one of their techs tried to pin that on someone... or its even more likely that one of their techs would ACTUALLY THINK thats what happened lol.. i mean.. c'mon guys.. forgetting to put oil back into an engine before returning it to the customer?? hire someone that finished 6th grade...

[WhatTurbo?]

i wanna break 12's in msp eventually.. thats after warranty runs out and i get forged pistons lower compression head gasket and a t3/t4 turbo set up with a 50 shot of nitrous.. =)
oh and some slicks

[Protege01MP3]

lol... see.. i KNEW it!! i could tell from your post that there was no way in hell you'd be satisfied w/ a BOV and a boost controller.. lol...

see.. now your talkin! oh.. and i wonder if an intercooler upgrade would void your warranty?? im sure they'll probably (i hope) release a factory issued upgrade in the near future... cuz... as big_ben said in very colorful language, that intercooler is WAAY tiny (see my signature for quote)

[WhatTurbo?]

haha im all about speed.. if it doesnt add hp it isnt goign on my car or in it..
resleeved block, Sparco FMIC, Stand alone fuel management system!
oh ya the works!!
i get a 1200 a month for my car. half will be car payment and insurance rest is parts.go di love having everything payed for by the government

[twiztedjeckel]

yeah better make sure you don't go dropping the soap in the shower in front of any of your air force buddies. enjoy the car in the spring whenever you get it if you do. you'd be better off getting some other turbo car if your looking for a fast car now. your warrenty is going to last awhile and it sounds like you got the need for speed now

[WhatTurbo?]

See i have already decided i want a NEW car and it is still between the neon str-4 and this msp im undecided and i am more leaning towards the msp... dont doubt me on getting it i am not one to bs anyone....
oh and the gays arent in the airforce they are in the navy.. smartguy

[slug420]

if u want a fast car, get the srt-4. no question whatsoever. 75 more whp than the msp to start with, thats a lot of ground to make up. the srt-4 comes with beefed up internals already and promises mopar addons for more HP. if speed is your vice then i really dont see the MSP as the best choice.....

as far as the warranty goes, im pretty sure that across the board a boost controller is gonna void it but I would also like to say that I think the warranty coverage is very dependant on the dealer you go to. My friend bought a 2000 2.5rs and threw on a intake and an exhaust. He then had some problems with it and took it to a suby dealership, the suby dealership popped th ehood saw the intake and said, thats your problem. Wouldnt even touch it, just said you got that thing, you voided your warranty.

I then went to a suby dealership this summer with my parents who were lookin at a forester. I talked to a salesman there about the WRX and they had a used modded one on the lot. I asked him about the warranty and he said it was still valid. He told me about how they have sold a lot of WRXs and some of them have been modified. One of the kids put a huge BOV, CAI, huge exhaust and some other bells and whistles on his car and the engine was running too cold, so to prevent it from seizing up, it cut the fuel. So the kid brings it in to see what happened to his car and why, and the dealership, under warranty took his intake off, fixed whatever had broken when the fuel cut at 70mph....and sent him on his way saying "just dont put the intake back on". so it depends on the dealership i think, some are more willing to take a risk on covering modded cars to increase the enthusiast following they have, others wanna cut every corner and save every dime......

[Limited Edition]

Originally posted by slug420


One of the kids put a huge BOV, CAI, huge exhaust and some other bells and whistles on his car and the engine was running too cold, so to prevent it from seizing up, it cut the fuel.

i never knew that running an engine at too low of a temperature could seize up an engine? Could it really be that cold?:confused:

[JasonH]

Originally posted by Limited Edition
i never knew that running an engine at too low of a temperature could seize up an engine? Could it really be that cold?:confused:
No. Plus, cutting the fuel wouldn't break anything.

[slug420]

i dunno, thats what i was told......the point is, some dealers will fuck u when they see any mod, others will help u out and be friends rather than enemies.

[WhatTurbo?]

75 more whp????
msp = 170
srt-4 = 215

[slug420]

150 whp 223 whp in the SCC test....

wheel horsepower

they commented on the srt having 8 more horses at the wheels than chrysler claimed at the crank.......msp is 170 at crank 150 at wheels

[Limited Edition]

that is impressive!!!.
that's all i have to say!
I assume this amount of wheel horsepower goes for the PT cruiser Turbo.

[slug420]

i think thats a false assumption

[Antoine]

If nothing else the srt-4 is a factory powerhouse.

[twiztedjeckel]

Originally posted by slug420
My friend bought a 2000 2.5rs and threw on a intake and an exhaust. He then had some problems with it and took it to a suby dealership, the suby dealership popped th ehood saw the intake and said, thats your problem. Wouldnt even touch it, just said you got that thing, you voided your warranty.


first off i'd make them eat that fuckin intake if somebody told me my warrenty was void for helping my car breath better.

second, fuel cut can brake things depending on what car were talking about. if i or anybody else hits fuel cut in their RX-7's or whatever rotorty powered vehicle the fuel is shut off to the rear rotor causing detonation. not good in other words.

[WhatTurbo?]

but only reason fuel cuts in rx7's is from running too much boost. and not enough injectors... im so confused!!!!!
srt-4 or msp!!!!! omg!!
i have to test drive both and the msp wont be here for a while t test drive...

[djPhobic]

either will the srt

[slug420]

i love the msp, and never considered the less expensive, more powerful srt-4 for a second. But you sound like power is what you're after so the srt-4 might be the best choice for you.

[WhatTurbo?]

this is how it looks right now..

msp= good platform, looks 10x better than srt-4, handles better..

srt-4 = less expensive, MUCH faster, uglier..
what do i do? looks or speed.

[twiztedjeckel]

srt- with the money you save you could buy some bolt on goodies and a body kit or something since you don't love the way it looks

[Newf]

With the SRT4, Don't spend all your money on body kits because at some point you may need it for repairs, or at least gas from going back and forth to the dealer so often. :)

[twiztedjeckel]

this is true. it is coming from those mopar folks

[WhatTurbo?]

lololol i pretty much decided its gonna go down to the test drive..

[BlackMSP]

Personally I am kind of having a little doubts on which car I should have gotten.. I love my MSP even though my friend wrecked it and its sitting in my garage =[ but I whenever I see how fast that dam SRT is it makes me think. And with a stage III mopar kit without voiding the warentee that thing can have 300hp and be capable of easly running 13's all the time! Our car runs 15 but we have style, and handling. The SRT handles great but not as well as our, and I hate how it looks =[ do you think the MSP could ever compete with SRT's on the track? I am sure they can in auto x but in a straight line I think the SRT will just blow our MSP's away ;[ thats why I have second thoughts.. help me through! LOL!!

[I-Am-Chris]

Yeah but its a Neon. How will the tranny holdup thats what i thought. Also is it laggy. Its a 16g right. It will never handle as good as our cars and its open diff yeah thats right so there thats almost 3 to 4 grand to spend to get it up to par with our cars

[ebsalem]

Maybe I'm qualified to answer the question about the SRT, as I have owned 2 ACR Neons.... Both of which blew motors that were box-stock and dealer maintained.

Don't buy the neon!

They can say what they want about an SRT being new and different but it is still the same dealer network, same company and the same platform.

Heck, our MazdaSpeed dealer actually let's our local SCCA region have AutoX's in their back lot...

Mazda gets it. DaimlerChrylser (Dodge) doesn't.

[scapamouche]

On the tranny front, the SRT is getting an all new 5 speed. That could be good or bad, depending on whether there are any initial quality problems with the new equipment....

[buster]

I have a 01 R/T which is the same chassis as the SRT4.(2nd gen) I have no complaints with this car as it is very reliable and capable on the autoX course. The SRT4 has many other upgrades in suspension and drivetrain and will hold over 300hp and 300ftlbs. The open diff is a weak link but not as much as you would think, and the turbo very responsive, at least that is what GRM has reported. I would absolutely guarantee that with a little -camber and some Eibach springs the SRT4 will come VERY close or be @ par with the MSP handling. If you do som reasearch you will see this is true. The SRT4 does not have a sunroof, does not have a fancy stereo, does not have Sparco accents. It has a monster motor, 2nd to none seats, capable chassis and handling and if it lives up to the quality of the 2nd gen Neons it will be fine reliability wise. True, it may suffer from a few 1st year glitches but the car has been tested like crazy and it's SCCA rally version has been rock solid and performed well. As many may think, I am not on here to hack or insult other cars, I have very open mind and have a good understanding of the different cars in this segment. I want a SRT4, but a Spec V or MSP may be in the future instead. The Spec V could be had for 23k canadian and if I was lucky the SRT4 or MSP could be around 26k. I just can't decide if I want the creature comforts....
Check out neons.org and these pics http://home.tampabay.rr.com/blackcat/My_SRT.htm

[Dexter]

who cares about straight line.

who even cares about auto x.


youre going to be driving the car more often just as a daily driver so...

[AGR]

Ho Hum...........

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc03b3127cce94eb8f13ff530000001610 ...Slippery when wet!

What's Love Got To Do With It?! Plenty Baby!!

And; I Do Love My MAZDASPEED!!!!!!!!

[Newf]

maybe we should make an enitre forum dedicated to other cars vs the speed? And we'll stick the Spec V and SRT4 comments on there?

[AGR]

Originally posted by newf
maybe we should make an enitre forum dedicated to other cars vs the speed? And we'll stick the Spec V and SRT4 comments on there?

No shit, Newf!! I'm with you. Is nothing Sacred?!

[jroof]

Can we not go through another five page SRT/MSP thread?

[JasonH]

I think any thread with "MAZDASPEED vs." in the title should be locked automatically.

[AGR]

Originally posted by jroof
Can we not go through another five page SRT/MSP thread?

Exactly.

And certainly no hard feelings toward our friend, BlackMSP - his friend wrecked his car. I hope he gets it repaired or replaced.

[buster]

Originally posted by JasonH
I think any thread with "MAZDASPEED vs." in the title should be locked automatically.
Hear no evil, see no evil, huh(werd) (thought)

[BlackMSP]

Originally posted by AGR#7


Exactly.

And certainly no hard feelings toward our friend, BlackMSP - his friend wrecked his car. I hope he gets it repaired or replaced.

And the insurance adjuster still has not come out =[ every morning I walk into my garage looking at my car all messed up *so sad* but its ok I guess becuase all I need is the insurance company to pay for a right fender, right side skirts, front bumper, front end adjustments, new A frame (we dont know if there is real c-section damage done yet, or worse), some suspension work, new wheel and tire, and a new CARBON FIBER hood so I get a little out of the deal ;X and I was just killing time untill I could get my intake anyway so I guess its alright.... OK SO ITS NOT ALIRGHT I <3 MY MSP!! GET WELL SOON!!

[chdesign]

Lets drop the Neon thing guys if you want one that bad go get one otherwise stop yoru bitchin'!! You want the MSP to beat it put some forged rods and pistons in it and the crank will hold 400 hp so do that and then slap a T28 on it and go whoop up on some SRT-4 ass. I have no respect for that car.....actually i have little respect for any american car none have lasted long in my experince.

[JasonH]

Originally posted by buster

Hear no evil, see no evil, huh(werd) (thought)
I just think they're pointless.

[buster]

They usually end up correcting a lot of misinformation about other cars but they also do quickly become an avenue for certain people to spout nonsense.

[JasonH]

Originally posted by buster
They usually end up correcting a lot of misinformation about other cars...
Yeah, the first time they're discussed. Not the tenth.

[Dexter]

buster, just go buy an SRT-4 already and STFU.


thanks.

[buster]

Originally posted by Dexter
buster, just go buy an SRT-4 already and STFU.


thanks.

Riiiight, thanks:rolleyes: :wtf:

[evo'skickass]

hey all, i'm new to this fourm, and i have some questions about the mazdaspeed. my first one is, did any of u consider the srt-4 before buying ur msp, and if so what made u get the msp over the srt-4. Of course the srt-4 is a much faster car and has many upgrades for it, the only thing keeping me from getting it is the looks, I love the look of the msp, but also want a fast car i can have fun in.

all ur suggestions will be seriously noted, and taken into consideration during my purchase of either car

[orangezoom]

hey all, i'm new to this fourm, and i have some questions about the mazdaspeed. my first one is, did any of u consider the srt-4 before buying ur msp, and if so what made u get the msp over the srt-4. Of course the srt-4 is a much faster car and has many upgrades for it, the only thing keeping me from getting it is the looks, I love the look of the msp, but also want a fast car i can have fun in.

all ur suggestions will be seriously noted, and taken into consideration during my purchase of either car
I looked at the SRT-4and it was close when it came down to making a decision, I just did not like the Dodge look at all and I am talking mainly interior.
Just last week I had my Dodge dealer call me up, I have bought a few dodges from him, and he offered me a 2004 SRT-4 with no miles for my MSP and $1000.00. I was very tempted but I said no.
The SRT-4 is a fast car and that is it.Please no Flames I do like the SRT-4 it is just not for me.

[jr213]

i actually was thinking bout test driving the srt-4, but i just decided to go with the msp because of looks, and also i got a good deal on my financing. I like my car more and more everytime i put a performance part in it.

[jlanger]

There is at least one person on the boards that has both. I'd drive both. See which fits the best for you. MSP is a better handling then the SRT4 but not as fast. SRT has a pretty major aftermarket just gearing up for itself while the MSP is now a d/c model. tough choice though, have fun looking!

[chicana28]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooo dont..... go... dodge..... horrible.... dodge please whatever u do and take this seriously do not go dodge.... go mazda lovely mazda but not dodge!!

[yashooa]

Buy yourself a FUCKING SEARCH BUTTON FIRST!
This has been beat to death on here over an over again in fact do the board a favor and buy the Dodge! (notcool)

I assure you. There are about 9000 threads on this and they will be soaked in flames.(flame2)
In fact do a search for the username Buster and you will find SRT-4 comments a plenty.

It's the S to the E to the A followed by an R then a C with an H on the end and what's that spell? SEARCH bitch. Yes SEARCH. Use it!

[spacemonkey]

Welcome! I considered both cars. But the 04s werent out when I was considering the SRT-4.

What can I say. I test drove both of them and I loved the power of the SRT-4...and thats pretty much it. Mazda pretty much made my decision for me by giving almost $2500 in rebates and $600 more on my trade in. Its all preference. If you like strightline fast and easy upgrades get the SRT-4. If youre into a well balanced car with amazing handeling...get the MSP. There are a couple of members who have owned both so maybe they can give you some info (Low J? and AZspeed?).

Here are the things that got me to take the MSP:
1) $$$ it was way cheaper
2) looks...it definately turns heads because you dont see alot of them. I hate the infamous Neon Wheel gap.
3) nice interior. The SRT-4 interior didnt cut it for me. I loved the seat and the gauges/dash. But it felt high and jacked up to me for some reason. And I kinda got annoyed by the shifter in 1st gear.
4) the 03s didnt have LSDs...annoying when you have that much power.
5) handeling was amazing...I've own only RWD cars in the past and this doesnt even compare to my bros Golf. Im all about handeling.
6) I loved all the little goodies taht the MSP came with, Kenwood, Racingheart, racing beat, tokico, garrett, Bridgestone 215s RE04s, sparco (in 03s)

Both are good cars and I would suggest test driving them...I know dodge made some improvements on the 04 SRT-4s. As for look...SRT-4 looks beautiful from the front...then it gets kinda lame in the back with the wheel gap and supra/DSM wing.

[DiscreetSpeed]

I dont know what to say...test drive both.
ive modded my car and measured equally to a modded 04 srt...this is from a couple of runs with each other..

[yashooa]

I dont know what to say...test drive both.
ive modded my car and measured equally to a modded 04 srt...this is from a couple of runs with each other.. Discreet did someone beat you with the "pussystick" cause you are so kind an gentle as of late? (laugh)

[DiscreetSpeed]

lol...you havent been checkin the stock turbo vs aftermarket turbo thread or the emanage thread in the new forum.....
i am trying to stop bein like that though and being more helpful....its just so HARD!!!!

[yashooa]

lol...you havent been checkin the stock turbo vs aftermarket turbo thread or the emanage thread in the new forum.....
i am trying to stop bein like that though and being more helpful....its just so HARD!!!!
Good I was begining to worry that Team Rainbow had stolen your balls away (evil)

Damn this A.D.D.! They took me off my meds for awhile due to "side effects" and I can't stay on topic for SHIT!

On topic:Oh yes, SEARCH THE FORUM YOU ASSBURGLER!

[DiscreetSpeed]

no way man...got team ghost recon providing security.

[yashooa]

no way man...got team ghost recon providing security. Ah haha good one a Tom Clancy Red Storm joke. Good one bro. SRT-4 sucks that is all.

[DZnutz]

it honestly came down to quality and value for me... i found the msp to be a much higher quality vehicle than the srt. that and the fact that i got my msp for $7K CDN less than an srt... if they were both the same price then id be a personal choice. the only thing, and i mean truly ONLY thing, the srt has over the msp is straight line speed... i found the msp to be better in every possible category and offer even more extras. good luck just be happy with your choice

[slug420]

dead serious, if you need to ask, buy a srt-4

[Subghetto]

All an srt-4 is a neon w/ a turbo in it, that's it no big fucking deal(notcool) plus it's a damn neon those cars will probalby breakdown a need constant repairing. An MSP will be more reliable and stylish since the dodge neon is ugly as hell.

[spacemonkey]

Um yeah a neon with a 2.4L engine that makes like 229 hp and 250 lbs of torque. Just look at the speed...same engine as the protege with a turbo. Not to mention the SRT-4 engine was designed for FI. The SRT-4 does not have a 2.0L neon engine. And it doesnt have a neon Tranny...lets see someon make 500hp on stock bottom on a 2.0 sxt neon.

[All Boost]

Two things.

1. this thread should actually have no reason for going any further as it has been beat to death.

2. Yashooa - I'm sure there is no need to be a degenerate and swear at a dude that has 1 post.

[spacemonkey]

Yeah lets be helpful for once and not make comments like "its just a neon."

[Damaga]

Based on some`s comment, might as well stop posting...
Are you guys actually looking for threads that "has already been posted" and just bitch about it?

Anyhow, I`m sure a good % of us checked out the SRT-4...
I did, was pricey and actually 2-3k over sticker at the time I got my Speed (October)...
Could not even test-drive the thing! SRT-4 has a kick-ass engine and I just love the sound of the exhaust.
BUT got the MSP based on price and turbo (oh so nice)
It`s just fast enough and handles like it's on rails! and the interior is much better and the stereo is great!

Happy car hunting!

[Subghetto]

Yeah lets be helpful for once and not make comments like "its just a neon."
ok a it's a super neon but it still a neon.

[t3ase]

dead serious, if you need to ask, buy a srt-4
There ya go. PERFECT.

[t3ase]

Based on some`s comment, might as well stop posting...
Are you guys actually looking for threads that "has already been posted" and just bitch about it?Yes. Search and you'll find threads where we explain that.

[apocman]

Two things.

1. this thread should actually have no reason for going any further as it has been beat to death.

2. Yashooa - I'm sure there is no need to be a degenerate and swear at a dude that has 1 post.
Ah, yes I knew a Canadian wrote this reply. I love how laid back and polite Canadians are, but they just don't understand American humor. Not to say all Americans like extreme humor...


A little story for you all:

Every year I have to attend an International training class. Well, in my class was a Canadian friend of mine and an Israeli. Let me tell you it was so funny listen to the two of them go at it. The Canadian wanted to discuss and discuss and discuss the issues and he was always mindful of being nice.

The Israeli was very direct to the point. He like to say "here is the problem and here is your answer. now let's react!" and he would cuss and say "you talk to fucking much! No need for all of this bullshit talk! You see problem and you fix Problem!" ...

Man my Canadain friend was like "WELL, I have never been treated this way " " UHMP" and he crossed his arms and didnt say anything rest of the class.

I was dumb founded, but after class we all went and drank beer for a long time ( WARNING! a 90 yr old Canadian grandmother can out drink a 500lb redneck from Texas, anyday!)

We talked about all the differences between the three of us and our cultures. We noticed that alot of times Canadians like to discuss and debate alot and they are very proper for the most part and their humor is very subtle compared to Americans.

Israelis are very to the point type, reactive people and they LOVE to cuss and don't for the most part give a shit what other people think about what they say or do. I didn't really get a feel for what type of humor he likes.

Americans like to throw lots of money at problems and we don't for the most part, take in account international opinions in our decision process and we like extreme humor.

Just the opinions of three men from three different countries drinking beer and shooting the shit and does not reflect the countries of origin opinions...

Apoc

[rocketspeed]

The SRT-4 costs about $4k more than the MSP. Given the price difference, I picked the MSP. All things being equal, I would have given up a little handling and take the SRT-4 for the power. I don't regret not getting the SRT-4 for a second, though. I like being able to outcorner them and being more stylish while I do it.

The dealer who was willing to trade a used MSP plus $1k for a new SRT-4 is on the pipe, or that story is BS. The trade-in value of a used MSP (even with 1k miles on it in showroom condition) won't nearly cover dealer cost on an SRT-4. That used MSP is worth maybe $13k or so used.

[jflo]

ok a it's a super neon but it still a neon.
ok a it's a super protege but it still a protege.

quit being dicks about replying to his question. granted that he didn't use the search function, he probably didn't know about it.

evo'skickass: it all comes down to where you want to go. if you're into dragging and stuff, the srt-4 is for you ! but if you want better overall style (in my opinion at least) and quality, get the MSP.

[t3ase]

imo, like slug said, if you have to ask, get the SRT4.

[TampaBlackMSP]

Exactly!

[Black Majik MSP]

I don't know why the mods refuse to make my thread a sticky, but whatever.

Please check out the link in my signature & it should help you decide if the MSP is right for you.

I think about the fact that I could have bought an SRT-4 quite often because the performance & superior engine design is appealing, but then I look at the car again & remember how much better mine looks. Besides, I've never been a domestic car guy.

[SoniCraze]

serioulsy, if you have test driven both, and you still cant decide, get the srt.

The srt is all around a "little" better car(most reviews) in the price range, but only if you can get over the looks and the crap interor. Ive thought about traiding in and gettin a srt, like many have done, but i dono, the interor and the overall crap look just coulndt cut it when it came down to it.

[t3ase]

I don't know why the mods refuse to make my thread a sticky, but whatever.
Beautiful idea. Done.

[MackDadam]

I think it was the sport compact car review of the car that said that even though the srt won first place, in the end when the editors were asked which car they would rather own, all of them picked the msp

[Fai]

well.. for me I'll go for msp.. since i love it so much and it is a jap car... and looks better

[t3ase]

This thread has been merged with several others which may have dated before the SRT-4 was released. Please read the ENTIRE thread if you're considering which car to buy. A few minutes of reading should be jusifyable considering you're about to drop several thousands of dollars. Thanks.

[Dexter]

i noticed i was the thread starter and i was like what the crap.

[yashooa]

Two things.

1. this thread should actually have no reason for going any further as it has been beat to death.

2. Yashooa - I'm sure there is no need to be a degenerate and swear at a dude that has 1 post.Ah please Mr. Cannuck. I am no mere degenerate. I am a FUNNY degenerate that makes a huge difference. My words weren't uttered in hate but in brotherly NON-GAY forum love. So patch up that great, white, coochie hole of your's and feel the love man.

P.S. SRT4=4 wheeled ass. It's like looking at an ugly deformed, sweaty, cheese smelling, obese woman, with hairy tits! She could be fast as an Indy car and I would still not want to take her home.

[shaolin]

yashooa is the funniest mofo on this site...damn

Buy yourself a FUCKING SEARCH BUTTON FIRST!
(flame2)

[jflo]

yashooa you need to calm the fuck down...the guy probably didn't even know that there was a search button. shit...flaming fucktards

[ZMN BY U]

I own a MSP my mods are listed below but im now running about 10-12 psi daily.
Im a service advisor at a honda dealership here in VA. I have a buddy who works next door at the dodge dealership, well he brought over a SRT-4 today for me to drive i took the car to lunch ran the shit out of it. And well i was NOT IMPRESSED the least bit. Sorry guys but my car will KILL this neon anytime any day of the week. The car really did not put me back in the seat at all. it did grab 2nd good put at 14 psi i was not impressed. There is noway this car runs 14.2 in the 1/4 mile. NOWAY!!!!!!!!!!!! My msp felt alot more faster then the srt-4. I have owned some fast cars in my day but for the price of the neon and the msp the Mazda gets the nod for hp and ride handling and stereo system.

We are gonna race next week so i will let you guys know what happens with the race.

Have fun and be safe. Only way to drive..

[unwrittenLaw]

u sure it wasnt a neon r/t or something....

[ZMN BY U]

NOPE sorry dude i looked at the car before we left big ass intercooler on the front. Sorry man just didnt think it was that fast.

[spacemonkey]

yeah I always felt the engine should be getting more power running at 14 psi from a 2.4L engine...weird. I test drove one...I thought it was nice.

[unwrittenLaw]

the couple i've test driven were very fast...maybe u had a dud or something...oh well, to each their own..

[slamdp5]

must of had a dud.......my salesman let me eat up a mustang gt and nissan 350z. i would have bought it that day, had it not been a neon(boom02)

[QwikSRT4]

damn slow ass Neons...

[cycoutMSP03.5]

dude u should go post that on a srt board for the all the neon thugs. I thought the car looked dumb.... well lets be honest its a fucking neon with a big grill... it looks retarded. i watched the video for the launch of the srt-4 on the dodge website... it is freakin' pitiful. they have guys spray painted in the background and this dude in a shirt and tie trying to make the neon sound cool for the "hip" generation.

heres the link, mad funny
click on the multimedia pic at the bottom
then click on multimedia on the flash screen that pops up
the movie is labeled, well its labeled "movie"... created eh?
its all built up like a awesome car like a 350z is going to amaze the crowd.. but its a neon..... wow..... with the dumb grill and spoiler
http://www.dodge.com/srt-4/photos.html?context=srt-4-index&type=left

neons are fucking slow, and nothing pisses me off most then a decked out neon with altezza's with a kid who thinks he looks cool driving the same thing my grandma owns. There are a bunch at my college and in the norwich area of CT. They all suck!

(fu) to the Dodge SRT-4, a neon with a stupid grill, and those who drive them for tuning... my grandma is still cool, though

later
ry

[t3ase]

Guys.. On topic.

[spacemonkey]

I think it looks hot front the front. Then the Wheel gap and spoiler put me back to reality. But I must say it was a powerful car.

[t3ase]

I've been *VERY* close to trading my MSP in for a SRT-4 on many occasions. It's a nice car. I'm merging this with the buyer's guide sticky.

[yashooa]

yashooa you need to calm the fuck down...the guy probably didn't even know that there was a search button. shit...flaming fucktards Ah who's pussy is bruised? Your's is!
That was a really weak put down next time put more effort into it.

[t3ase]

dude u should go post that on a srt board for the all the neon thugs. I thought the car looked dumb.... well lets be honest its a fucking neon with a big grill... it looks retarded. i watched the video for the launch of the srt-4 on the dodge website... it is freakin' pitiful. they have guys spray painted in the background and this dude in a shirt and tie trying to make the neon sound cool for the "hip" generation.

heres the link, mad funny
click on the multimedia pic at the bottom
then click on multimedia on the flash screen that pops up
the movie is labeled, well its labeled "movie"... created eh?
its all built up like a awesome car like a 350z is going to amaze the crowd.. but its a neon..... wow..... with the dumb grill and spoiler
http://www.dodge.com/srt-4/photos.html?context=srt-4-index&type=left

neons are fucking slow, and nothing pisses me off most then a decked out neon with altezza's with a kid who thinks he looks cool driving the same thing my grandma owns. There are a bunch at my college and in the norwich area of CT. They all suck!

(fu) to the Dodge SRT-4, a neon with a stupid grill, and those who drive them for tuning... my grandma is still cool, though

later
ry
Not to be an ass but do you know what you're talking about?

[brianmcd]

I think it looks hot front the front. Then the Wheel gap and spoiler put me back to reality. But I must say it was a powerful car.
I agree 100% with this! I think the front looks really badass, but the rear and wheel gap aren't so great. It is extremely fast though. If you're doing lots of drag/street racing I'd say get the SRT-4. If you drive for the love of driving, and for the feeling of the turns, get the MSP. Although, like that one guy said, if you have to ask get the SRT-4. The MSP is a unique car and I think if it's right for you you'll know it.

~brian

[ND4MSP]

I didn't care for the rear end either until I saw and heard the exhaust. Then it def scored some points with me.

[batmang]

it hauls ass, but it will suckass and die in 2 years.

[t3ase]

it hauls ass, but it will suckass and die in 2 years.
Lets see... I've been through two clutches, one transmission, four radio headunits, two coolant leak fixes, three axles, three broken intercooler/bpv pipes all in around 11months.

...Would you like to try that one one more time? The SRT is a good car. It's more of a "built for turbo" car than the MSP, face it.

[Micah]

(www.modernracer.com (http://www.modernracer.com))
SRT-4

Top speed : 153 mph
0-60 mph : 5.6 sec.
0-¼ mile : 14.2 sec @ 102.0 mph
60-0 braking distance : 120 ft
200 ft skidpad : 0.85 g
Curb Weight : 2970 lbs
MSP

Top speed : 130 mph(estimated)
0-60 mph : 6.9 sec.
0-¼ mile : 15.4 sec @ 91.0 mph
60-0 braking distance : 135 ft
200 ft skidpad : 0.89 g
Curb Weight : 2844 lbs


Check out the braking distance? The SRT-4 is half a second faster in the quarter mile. I don't remember who was trying to downplay that, but 1/2 seconds are nothing to be taken lightly at the track. The SRT-4 also weighs more yet has a shorter stopping distance.... what is that all about.

Not to mention the Fuel Economy - the SRT-4 gets 29mpg City and 36mpg Highway.

The fact is that aside from looks, the SRT-4 is a much more capable car. The only area the MSP is going to take the gold is in handling. Bear in mind that the SRT-4 is priced roughly 2k below the MSP - arguably this could be spent on suspension upgrades. As far as the SRT-4 looking like a goddamned skittle - yeah, it sure does. But I don't know many people that haven't heard about an SRT-4 anymore.

Long story short, Mazda made the MSP first. The MSP is a direct competitor to the SRT-4. If you were releasing a car, wouldn't you have designed something better than the competition? It's all about the waiting game. Wait until the Cobalt SS and ION Redline are released, chances are they will be the latest and greatest. About six months after that - something else will come along.

lather - rinse - repeat.

That's why I'm paying off my car and saving up 30-35k for a new car. It's gonna take me a solid year to save that much, and that's after the six months it's taking me to pay off my car. STI, Crossfire, Touareg, is300 are a few of the cars I am looking at.